If I were to make my own mmorpg, the project would probably be cancelled before the game was launched. An mmo takes a lot of time, effort, money and talent to create, and I lack most of those. Even if it were to come out, chances are, it would be a buggy, unoptimized mess because if I were to make my own mmo exactly how I would want it, it would not be compatitable with modern server technology.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

if you are using the holy trinity in an action based game what mechanics could you not do in a action game you could do in a tab target game.

While you could implement more or less anything to an action mmo, I am not sure everything can be very well implemented. Action mmos can implement the holy trinity, but I find that the trinity doesnt work very well with the action nature of the game.

Point is, an action mmorpg would have to be done carefully. Just tacking on free aim, manual attacks and dodging to current encounter design philosophies and mechanics doesnt get you anywhere.

Whatever fits the rest of the game better.

For now I would be lying if I said I prefer Action combat over Tab targetting combat. However, I do think there is a lot more potential for action combat games, problem is the execution of a lot of the action combat mmos have been terrible.

First and quite possibly one of the most important things, raids can work with games with action combat BUT they have to be designed differently. A raid encounter in an action mmo should not be designed in the same way as they are in a tab targeted raid encounter. If I were to design a raid for an action mmo, it would rely a lot more on set pieces, clever level design and large enemy groups over bosses with inflated life bars, I seriously doubt an action game can do those anywhere near as well as a tab target game. Bosses in action games can be fun, but I havent seen a single action game handle a 10v1 boss fight well.

Another thing is that an action game imo needs a high lethality, if I am beating on your average mob for over 30 seconds and he has still not dropped dead, then the combat is not very good. Of course, some enemies can take over 30 seconds to kill, but the majority should be faster to defeat than that. That said, they can not be killed too fast either, there needs to be a balance, and from my experience, a lot of action mmos had this balance way off.

Also, what does easy mode cc and mostly effortless control over enemies have to do with tactics and strategy? From my experience they make combat no more tactical, if anything, I find that they have the opposite effect on tactics, no need to predict enemy moves, no need for formations, no risk vs reward, just spam ccs and outlast the foes.

Role systems are great, but nothing is a requirement for anything, no feature should ever be considered a standard, it is mentality like that which leads to banality.

The Trinity is quite possibly the worst implementation of a role system I have ever seen and counterproductive to the whole tactics and team work aspects. In a trinity battle system I have never really seen a healer interact with me (the tank), they do interact with my character, but they never interact or adapt to my tactics. The way they played never changed based on what I did with my tank, they healed based on the (rather predictable) mob's behaviour, not mine. Same goes for me, I acted based on the actions of the mob, not the actions of the DPS or the healer.

So far, the trinity has only really been an illusion of teamwork. As for an alternative, a role system but without absurd threat mechanics, build the game around formations and positioning instead, and add more roles to the system. Change the healer role to make it so that the battle is a lot more about avoiding that damage in the first place. As for examples, just look at what any SRPG or any other Turn Based Tactics game does, but adapt and alter it to make it fit into the mmo world.

Dephends on how the mmo is set up.

If the mmo is based around its endgame, max level content (WoW for instance). I would rather have an EXTREMELY short levelling portion (12 hours max), which is long enough to help players get acquainted with their class and skills but not long enough to discourage alts. Fast levelling also means that less levelling content needs to be added which means more of the budget can go towards the endgame, balances and features.

Meanwhile if the game is not designed around end game content, but is more about being an virtual world and letting players live in it I would love a long time to reach the level cap. For my ideal mmo there would be a long levelling portion BUT the power gain would also be really small, a max level player would be at a maximum 3 times stronger than a level 1 character.

Not a feature per say... but rather a form of mentality.

That mentality being that you MUST have features X, Y and Z in your game or else it will fail. There is no magic bacon that works great with anything in the mmo genre. Think of what would benefit the game the most, as opposed to what is the "standard" in the industustry.

Ok some things I can see as standard, such as basic communication features such as guilds, friends lists and ignore lists.

While I see nothing wrong with a role system, I can't stand the holy trinity. It makes combat too stale and predictable, I wouldnt even call it teamwork for most of the part. I just mind my own business (keep mobs on me and use skills to mitigate as much damage as possible) and let the other players do their part. As long as their numbers are high enough, they are smart enough not to stand in the fire and they use that class utility skill or 2 I dont care what they do.

Now, if the threat mechanics were removed, things like positioning, formations and proper tactics (I do not consider "don't stand in the fire" proper tactics) may suddenly become important. As for GW2, the encounters feel like they were designed around the mechanics of the trinity, but were put in a game where the trinity does not exist. Execution is one of the most important things of any game, sadly, I feel that GW2 was not all that well executed.

I never cared for mmorpg combat. And at this rate, probably never will. Though for mmos (and any game where you control 1 character for that matter) I will say that action is the way to go, but only if it is done well.

Hotkey combat systems like the one in WoW is both kinda untactical compared to actual tactical games out there (even some action games, like the mmofps Planetside), it also doesnt provide an adrenaline rush like action games do, as a result, I dont find the system to really achieve anythin. Action mmorpgs imo have a lot more potential, but mmo devs keep messing up on the execution.

Personally, I just wish more mmos would focus less on action and combat and instead focus more on simulating a world.

Absurd stat inflation (Have 40 HP at level 1, at level cap you have 400,000 HP).

Primary class attributes: Warriors go for stregth, ignore intelligence. Mages go for intelligence, strength is useless. Archers ignore Strength, go for agility (because we all know that you use your agility to pull the string, and not your strength).

Levelling that exists for its own sake.

I think the reason mmos are moving more to instanced PvP "trash" is because it simply put works better than WPvP for a lot of games.

There are no right and wrong features to add to a game, and no glove fits all. Some mmos benefit from a more structured PvP experience, others suffer for it. It really dephends on what works best with the rest of the game. Design is law, and nothing mixes and matches all that well with everything and what may work for EVE Online might end up detracting from the experience in a game like Guild Wars 2.

Nothing against PvP in general, played some competitive multiplayer not too long ago. I got nothing against it in mmos either, afterall, I highly respect games like EVE and UO, and I wish we could get more games like that.

Problem is however, that a lot of games have PvP that is downright terribly executed, an as a result is not a lot of fun. Examples of this includes WoW. PvP feels like it is nothing more than a tacked on minigame, one that adds absolutely nothing to the core experience. WoW is focused on instances and getting better loot. WoW is not a PvP game, and PvP really is the weakest link in that game.

Of course, you may feel differently, but PvP to a lot of players is not particulary fun in games that arent built around it.

Hmm, this seems familiar, oh yeah, I have seen this exact same OP on other forums. The game he is thinking of is appearantly Eudemons Online, some vampire mmo.

As for the necromancer class, it really dephends on the game. Some implement the necromancer well, others dont. As simple as that.

What is a real gamer?

As many others have said, game design is a lot harder than just getting a good idea, if I got one dollar for every "promising" game idea I came up with, I would be a lot richer.

The thing about this every gamer has a different idea for what the perfect mmo would be, and what you might see as the ultimate mmo others would see as... boring. When arenanet developed Guild Wars 2, that was probably their idea of the ultimate mmorpg, but going by the backlash that game recieved that was clearly not the ultimate mmo idea even for themepark fans. Then there are issues of getting stuff to work together well and implementing stuff well, just tacking on stuff without bothering with execution results in unbalanced gameplay and a mess. Most (if not all) game developers are real gamers, and I am sure by working in the actual gaming industry, you have a much better idea of game design than someone that doesnt.

Then there is the part where a game must be possible physically to work, and by that I mean you have to take the tech, monetary and manpower limitations into mind. I have an idea for a game, but I honestly believe I couldnt get it to work because I am not sure I would have the tech and manpower to get the game to work properly, and dont  get me started on execution. Maybe in the future I can start developing it, but for now, I am gonna leave it in the dark.

Both me and a friend are passionate gamers, yet when it comes to designing the perfect mmo, we cant help but to argue with eachother.

Also this thread reminds me of this youtube video,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGar7KC6Wiw

Honestly, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and I wouldnt mind having both.

Dynamic Events are a great idea, but I dont feel they were anywhere near as well executed as they should have been, they should have a much bigger impact on the world, be randomly generated based on various variables, interact better with one another and they should be much, much harder. Reclaiming a town is waaaay too easy, even solo. Dynamic Events were much more well done in games like Depths of Peril.

Investigations are a good idea, and worked well in The Secret World. I would argue it was the game's strongest point.

I have been yearning to be liberated from the trinity since I started raiding in TBC (played as a tank). The better I got at my role, the deeper my understanding of the trinity became and the more I realized just how shallow of a mechanic the trinity really is.

I got really upset when this trinity (especially threat) nonsense started creeping into single player RPGs.

But when GW2 announced it wouldnt have a trinity I was so pleased and when I got to play the game it felt so liberating. So no, I definately do not miss the no teamwork/coordination trinity system.

I like being always at risk of getting killed, I like the lack of healers so I wont magically go from near death to full health in a matter of seconds, I like body blocking projectiles to take the hit from a wounded ally saving his life. I like mobs that seem to be a bit smarter than your typical "lets attack the guy with heavy armor and a shield".

Not to mention, I like combo skills, I like skills that require coordination to pull of perfectly, I like the increased emphasis on positioning.

That said, combat isnt perfect in dungeons and HP bloating is a problem. The mobs seem too dang sturdy and take too many hits from my hammer to kill.

The main arguement I have against it is how stale and unexciting combat gets due to the fact that mobs are way too predictable. Of course, this is just one of the many issues I have with the trinity.

I played as a tank btw.

I think more roles than 3 would be a great start, aim for at least 5.

Also, dont balance combat and encounters on the fact that players will take damage, make it possible to clear encounters without taking damage.

Remove taunts and greatly revamp the threat system, GW1 did a good job with this, but lets take even more steps further.

Finally, add some depth to the system, give us actual teamwork, not the illusion of it.

Choosing characters as opposed to creating your own, storylines where you are the chosen one, and you are a special little snowflake and unnecessary barriers.

I will also agree with one of the above posters that the lack of playstyles hurts the MMO bit.

The trinity exists because there is demand for the trinity and as long as there are people who wish for a game with a holy trinity they will keep existing.

Personally I hate the Holy Trinity with passion, but I am not going to say it can never work.  But if they fix the problems attributed to the Holy Trinity I wouldnt mind it so much, namely how every foe is magnetically attatched to the tank and there is no need for formations, oh and if you mess up, the healer can provide you with all your life back at a whim, assuming he has the resource (and resource management is dying it seems).

In these trinity based games, I played as a tank, and occationally healer. I never really felt like I was working as a team with the rest of the players. 

Some mmos naturally do things better than others, such as WoW does the healing role quite well, but I felt the tanking role was rather stale, just do your rotation to maintain the foes on you and pay heed to the gimmicks.

Like with any gaming genre, there is no right and wrong in mmorpgs. Some mmos benefit from the system, others suffer for it. It really dephends on how well it blends with everything else and how it is executed.