Originally posted by seraphol

 

Originally posted by Dreamagram

The problem with WAR is that they're trying and hoping to compete with WoW. If they'd simply settle for being a good game and getting a respectable player base they'd be so much better off than trying to please everyone to become the next mega hit with 4.5 million in Europe and the US.

I wouldn't be too surprised if a year from now, Pirates of the Burning Sea is bigger than both WAR and AoC, and I don't consider it entirely unlikely that AoC will also be bigger than WAR. Simply because trying to be a second WoW will simply have players go for WoW instead of your game.

And no, I don't believe for a second that the delay is for any other reason than trying to grab the WoW crowd. Mythic knows RvR, and already had that nailed down pretty well early on. I think delays are all to please the "WoW-market".

And of course this is my personal opinion and guesses, not adamant truth or analysis based on insider Mythic info. At least, when proven wrong a year from now, I won't be creating another account to hide from it. :-p

Edit: and my best wishes to the Mythic guys. We're all cheering for you. Just please keep this your game, not the game you had to make to make (more) money.

 

Well I agree with you, but keep something in mind. WoW is so hugely popular for a certain reason...not because of the Warcraft name, or because of any certain graphical styles. It's because the game is fun. That's as much an opinion as it's a convention, and of course a good number of people will play it and not enjoy their time.

But nine million people, more than any other online game before it, many of whom are first timers to the genre, have played the game and become addicted. Still, just calling it 'fun' is a little vague. The character development is interesting, the abilities are fun to try in combat (and constantly changing through patches) the world itself is rather well conceived, and the game is programmed incredibly well. Nearly everything works the way it should, nothing seems too 'slow' or restraining, it's an easy game to just jump into and feel like a part of the world that's fun to interact with. It's on the easy side which makes it even more accessible, but there are a lot of further challenges players can find once the levelling process is tired out. Everything about WoW is solid. All of it comes together and ropes people in who never even thought they'd play a game like this.

I'm not writing a review for WoW, I'm trying to put the desire to emulate WoW's success into perspective. They're not just trying to put out a game made a certain way that will make a lot of money, they're trying to make a game so accessible that people in the millions will jump into this game and come away with it wanting to return. Sure, it will make them a lot of money...and that's why EA is so lenient with Mythic about this.

To put it conversely, think about Final Fantasy XI. There are some people who think the game is utterly badass, and hate the guts out of World of Warcraft. That's great for them, but people like me who think FFXI is just too slow and unforgiving to get motivated enough to play to the endgame simply aren't going to invest time and money into this product. And Mythic's bottom line is simply, why put out such an extensive, immersive product with such a prolific name as Warhammer if you aren't going to aspire to getting as many people to sink as money hours into this experience as they possibly can? Money or not.

BUT. One thing I agree with you about is that I do feel that they're pushing a little too far toward their perceived ideal of perfection. There's only so much improvement you can make before doing more harm than good. I feel that releasing the game pretty close to perfect and then making small changes after (there's these things called patches and expansions games have!) would be good enough.

Both WAR and AoC have a challenging problem.

The reason WoW is so immensely popular is, of course, because it's easy for the MMO novice and the casual gamer to get into.  Most MMO players are casual -- they don't PvP much, if at all -- nor do they raid much.  The statistics bear this out, and it's really interesting since WoW is an equipment centric game where success and end game are based on raids and PvP.

That said, here come WAR and AoC.  In both, PvP is central.  In fact, WAR is nothing but PvP.

So how does FunCom and EA Mythic draw the casual MMO player?  Add more PvE to draw them in while finding ways to introduce these casual players into PvP in a way that's fun for them.  Both FunCom and Mythic have experience with this. 

I doubt if EA Mythic or FunCom are aiming for a niche market audience of hardcore powergamers who live and breath PvP.  No.  The only thing they want to emulate from WoW is the hugely popular wide-based appeal -- 9 million players is a nice, round number.  So when comparing it to WoW, this will be the crux for the success or failure of both WAR and AoC.

Originally posted by Yeebo

Totally off topic, but am I the only one that's never even heard of Glinhant?  I've been 50 for at least two months now, and I don't think I've talked to anyone that's run it:

lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Glinghant

Anyway, to answer your question, at the moment, it's a total waste of time.  The rewards are all vendor food -- the costs (i.e., repairs, time, etc.) versus rewards make it a place to avoid.

That's likely why you haven't heard of it.  Besides, except for the Epics (Books) and helping kin mates, there's really no reason for level 50's to spend any time in Evendim anyway.

Ahhh ,,,, YAY!

I see Turbine did announce Mines of Moria -- a huge new area -- will be a paid expansion, coming this fall ,,, and along with that, we shall see the level cap increased to level 60, more things for folks 50+ to do, enhancements to traits and equipment and two new races!

Hehe finally.  Life is good.

Originally posted by vipjerry

What does license has to do with PvP? No one ever stated that PvP has no place in lore. What was said is that at the moment they have no plans for open world PvP but LOTR settings are perfect for PvP. For people like you there can always be RP servers where you can fish or change your hairstyle but there is players who actually need a bit more from this game.
From my point of view, game would be better without you, with millions of subscribers cos at the moment game is almost empty and its hard to find decent fellowship and its all RP.

While he is providing us with a chuckle, it's rather meaningless since LotRO is not, was never designed to be and will never be twisted into a PvP game.

As many have said here, in LotRO, PvMP is firmly ensconced in LotRO as a diversion -- Turbine specifically stated that players can completely avoid PvMP (as well as any and all Raids, such as the RIft and Helegrod).

Now if, as a player, you want PvMP equipment and/or are lured by other newly introduced items/concepts in Ettenmoors/Ettendeep, go for it.  Same as the Raids - those areas are there for you!

Hmm.  Book 13 adds a new region (Ferochell? I may be misspelling it), north of Evendim, roughly the size of North Downs, with mostly solo, duo and small fellowship quests for levels 44-50.  We can look for that in a month or two (April-May).

Then there's the much anticipated announcement in the United Kingdom tomorrow by Turbine ,,, it's all hush hush but rumors and inside sources seem to point to Turbine and Codemasters announcing the first LotRO retail expansion for release in early summer.

So lots of new content coming --  But that's not the point - more to do is one thing, but having things to do that feel like I'm actually accomplishing something is quite another matter.  And no, I'm sorry -- doing a level 50 quest in Angmar (or anywhere) for a limp-ass common damage sword or quest reward item(s) my class can't use and NO EXPERIENCE is not much fun for me.  Raids are fun the first time ,,, not so much fun the 10th time.

So I mentioned for Turbine to raise the level cap -- in other words, lift the stagnation (every class has basically 2 or 3 "cookiecutter" set-ups (equipment, traits, etc.) -- that's just one thing to put the Devs working on that, with the patch this week, can now stop worrying abut the player horses' heads bobbing!) -- come on!  devise other, clever ways of challenging me with goals, rewards, fun things to do to keep me logging in and playing this game.

OMG!

I waded through 8 pages of stuff that, for the most part, has nothing to do with the topic...

Anyway, I'm a lifetime founder too and I've been playing since November 2006 (closed beta).

I love the game, the lore had real depth and Turbine's done a nice job overall.

The problem is, I'm finished.  I've got my girls to 50 some time ago, they're all Grand Master crafters with top gear.  I have all the gold I need.   I got a few ranks in PvMP and find most of it rather silly.  I have something like 20 open quests, most in Angmar with no incentive to do them (no experience and the rewards all suck).  I keep up on the epics (Books), help my kin mates with quests, raids, CD/BG/Uru runs, rep dungeons, etc.

Besides LotRO, I am playing two other MMOs currently in closed beta.

This is not about hardcore. casual, or any such labeling.  This is about having gone through all the content Turbine has given us in LotRO -- gone through, not burned through -- and much of it many times over (some epics I've done over a dozen times).

Turbine needs to lift the level cap and focus attention away from avatars who scratch themselves and personal horses whose heads toss from side to side, and, their obiquitous penchant for screwing with exploit mode to the point where pathing remains a real joke ... Turbine needs to craft and introduce real, interesting incentives for players that are 50+ to stay and continue to play LotRO.

Good information.  It's annoying, though, that too many of the kids today can't be bothered (or don't know how) to use punctuation.

Lately, the events in Lineage 2 are getting really bad -- and this one is a total waste of time.  It's been a downhill slide on events in Lineage 2.  The original "Letters" and the "Pumpkins" events were very good, but it went downhill from there (even the various reiterations of "Letters" and "Pumpkins" were not nearly as good)  and the Devs have sunk to their lowest with "Altered Realities."  You can't even sell the damn potion drops as vendor food >,< 

The reason Vanguard looks like EQ is because the vast majority of Sigil's artists, like a lot of the people at Sigil, came from EQ.  I'm not at all impressed with what I read and see about Vanguard -- it's a pie with a pretty crust but little filling.  Lots of hype.  Then, major decisions made by Sigil over the last year have really turned me off completely.  I mean OMG, leave MicroSoft which supported your sorry asses for 3+ years and "sell out" to SOE?  Okay, I know, SOE will only produce and distribute the game but come on, merely logging in to SOE's Station would make me puke.

LoTR looks promising.  I predict LoTR will have a modest amount of players when released but if Turbine holds true to its plans for game development and their incremental approach to realsing major updates in manageable, bug-free "bites,"  it won't be long before you will see a lot of MMORPG gamers playing this game.