|1303 posts found|
SoE releases an official warning to dupe exploiters
General Discussion « H1Z1
1/28/15 7:51:25 AM
Seriously, they've got to know posting all these "tough talking" warnings on social media isn't going to make a difference.
Do they seriously think the people using these exploits don't know exactly what they're doing, and aren't aware that SOE probably aren't happy about it? I don't think they believe that at all.
SOE knows as well as anyone else... duping and exploits are not going to stop, no matter what they say.
This is pure PR. They're posturing, to prove that "they care and are on top of it!".
It won't make a lick of difference to the exploiters.
Just make people aware that "such and such" activities are considered exploits and are not allowed, and then get on with banning those who continue to do it.
Everquest Next AI break down and a world of conflict video.
General Discussion « EverQuest Next
1/28/15 7:43:00 AM
Originally posted by DMKano
You've elaborated on pretty much what I'm thinking while watching this video...
All this sounds great in theory.
But the more important question is how will it fare when it comes in contact with thousands upon thousands of players, all trying to "move the story" in their own way.
With MMOs, there's two games...
1) The one the developers want it to be.
2) The one it actually becomes once players get their hands on it.
Or to put it another way... Fantasy vs. Reality
As history has shown, time and again, people will take the best concepts, and immediately set out to ruin them. A large group of people dedicate themselves to breaking/ruining a game for others in any way they can - either to their own benefit, or just "for the lulz".
I'll wait and see how EQN withstands contact with those people before deciding how interested I am in it.
I'm following EQN with active interest in the theory of what they're doing. I'm not getting excited about any of it in terms of "what it'll be like to play". I
I actually really, really enjoyed ESO. Much more than I thought I would.
After a while, though I just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in. I can't even explain why. I don't know what it was. Somehow I just wasn't "feeling it" anymore. There's no one specific reason I can even try to point to. I won't even say "it's a bad game", because I don't think it is. I was very impressed by how much they'd improved it by the time I went back, and I genuinely had a great time.
I had the same experience with GW2, and even FFXIV.
I found myself wanting to log in less and less.
So strange, compared to how I was with the earlier MMOs I played. When I played Lineage 2, or FFXI, or AC2, or Anarchy Online, or EQ2 (near its launch), I couldn't wait to log in and play. While at work, I sat and thought about what I was going to do when I next played. And this carried on for easily over 7 years.
With newer games, I dunno.. that craving just isn't there. I don't "miss them" when I'm not playing. That "hook" is missing.
What's nice about ESO going B2P is that, like GW2 or TSW, I can just keep the games on my system, and log in to play when ever I feel like getting a "dose" of them. Though I find even those are waning anymore.
Originally posted by Orious
This is something that's happened in every single MMO I've played.
Players find a build that works really well and is as close to "easy mode" as you can get.
It becomes the "standard" build that everyone and their grandmother uses.
People get bored playing the same build and complain about the game being "too limited in viable builds", blaming the devs.
Suggesting they experiment and find an alternate build that better suits them, and that is -gasp- fun gets reactions of dismissal and even derision; it's quite possible you'll be told - without irony - to "learn to play" by people who themselves have done nothing more than follow a template/build guide like a cake recipe, and likely couldn't tell anything, in any meaningful detail, about those other builds or why they're no good. "Why? Please explain" is one of the most frustrating things to say to these people, because they have no idea. I know, because I've tried it, many times. They don't know the mechanics behind it. They're just doing what everyone else does, or tells them to.
Many, many gamers don't want to explore, experiment or see what else might be fun/interesting. They just want "the winning formula" for everything... and then blame the devs for their own lack of imagination/experimentation when it gets boring.
I remember a guy back in FFXI whom - after lots of research and trial and error - proved that he could function perfectly well as a Melee White Mage.. and do it well. He could heal and such.. but also still deal damage and contribute. He even beat Maat (a notoriously difficult milestone fight in the game) through combat... not the usual White Mage approach. Despite proving, and offering to demonstrate his build and how it worked to people, he was slammed and told to "learn to play". He was mocked and insulted, and his thread was ultimately locked by the site owner, whom only did so after taking one last opportunity to bash him a little more.
Why were they so angry? 'cause he was screwing with their "reality". He was telling them - and willing to prove - things that went against what they'd convinced themselves was "the only true and correct way to play the game". The irony is, he knew the game, certainly that particular job, better than any of the people telling him that. They were just sheep following the flock. He was an individual actually experimenting and learning things for himself.
The same goes for dungeons and anything of that sort. People are determined to follow the strategies that will "guarantee a win".... all the while complaining about how repetitious and boring it is. Yet, suggest they experiment and try different strategies, to make it more interesting/fun... and they respond as though you just asked them to stab themselves with a rusty butter knife.
MMOs offter players myriad ways to play and approach the content. Players have so much control over their own experience. Yet, they insist on sticking to guides, walkthroughs, videos and such. Then they look to the devs for an "explanation" when they find it repetitious and boring... when they really should be looking in the mirror.
I've said this for years, and it's still as true as ever: MMO players are their own worst enemies.
Originally posted by Wizardry
I wouldn't say instances are "lazy", as they present their own sets of challenges for the developers to work around.
I feel they represent misplaced effort, because they create content that serves to separate players, and fragment the larger community into small groups, or even individuals. You don't build an online community by keeping everyone in their own private dimensions. You certainly don't make a world seem "massively multiplayer" in that way.
Originally posted by Axehilt
Because people who enjoy feeling drawn into a beautifully detailed and realized virtual world can't also "value gameplay"?
.... as though the two are mutually exclusive?
Seriously, that is one of the most blatant strawmen I've seen on these forums in a while.
Also, please show me the data that supports your claim that "most gamers" agree with you. I'm not talking anecdotal evidence based on "what you've observed". I mean actual data. Actual numbers from a valid source.
Please don't come back saying "well there's more people playing themeparks with instancing...". That would be an appeal to popularity. It's only proof of what people are playing... not why they're playing it or what their preferences are.
Using myself as an example to illustrate what I mean by the above...
I played FFXIV (2.0), LoTRO, TERA, and various other heavily instanced MMOs. While I find them fairly enjoyable... I would really prefer a MMO that's built around a more open-world design, with instancing used only for things that are specifically solo content. I would much rather see dungeons, caves, strongholds and the like to be more open and shared. I'd also like all those things in a game that is well designed, and that appeals to me in other aspects as well. Used to be that FFXI and Lineage 2 met my personal preferences. Neither of them do any longer, so I don't play them.
This thread is a funny read.
OP posts regarding possible tampering with the hype meter (something that's come up with other games as well in the past).
Nearly every reply is people completely ignoring the point raised by the OP, and instead using it as an opportunity to hype/promote the game.
Promoting a game is fine. Being excited about a game is great. There are plenty of places where expressing those views is appropriate.
However, replying to a post to hype/promote the game, while completely ignoring the actual topic/issue, is not only rude, it makes you look desperate.
It's like informing the waiter at a restaurant that your plate and silverware weren't properly cleaned, and all they say in response is "Our food here is delicious! It's all top-notch! Best in the area! People love it!".
Originally posted by Dullahan
I know exactly what you're saying, because I've sensed the same thing myself.
There are people out there who actually argue against a MMO being created as a "world" first, and a "game" second, but it needn't be a bad thing - and if the MMO is well-designed, it isn't.
It's a matter of presentation.
To try and whittle it down to the simplest possible way of explaining it, let me put it this way...
Older MMOs had game content built around, and anchored in, a well established and crafted world. The world was as much "a character" as any NPC or mob you'd encounter, often with its own stories to tell, through its geography and what the player would encounter there. Everything felt integral, like it belonged there. You'd get the sense that this was a world that was there long before you arrived, and would be there long after you were gone. The world, and everything in it, exists despite your character. They could feel very much like a real world in that way.
Newer MMOs do it the other way around. They're designed as games, and the world built around them serves as little more than a pretty backdrop. They look great, and there's a lot of interesting things to look at, but it's all arbitrary, because of the way the game itself is designed. You could be playing in a world of cardboard boxes, and it would feel just the same - because the world itself is only there as set dressing. In a newer MMO, the world exists for the player. This is magnified by the presence of instances, where everyone's sequestered off into their own private "version" of many locations.
It's a very distinct difference and someone who didn't spend much (if any) time in an older MMO wold probably scoff, and think that sounds absurd, or may fail to see the real difference between the two. But the difference is huge.
Another big difference is how they're approached and played.
Older MMOs used to be about being lost and drawn into a virtual world, where you could go where you wanted, and do what you wanted, within the context of that world. There were paths you could follow, but they weren't nearly so linear, and you weren't guided from point to point to point to point... The fun of those worlds was simply being a part of them, and interacting with others you met. There didn't always have to be some primary, overarching goal to be striving for, such as "getting to level cap". The goal was to log in and have fun doing whatever you ended up doing, be it working on your own progress, helping someone else with theirs, or maybe just seeing what came up and going with the flow.
In older MMOs, the idea of "getting to level cap" was there, but it was a far off, distant goal. It was a vague concept; something people were aware of, but weren't necessarily racing toward. Some raced toward it, but it was more just to compete with other players, not due to some idea that "getting to level cap is what the game is all about". I never heard/read the phrase "the real game starts at level cap" when I played FFXI, AC1 or AC2, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, DAoC, L2, etc. etc. I didn't start to hear that term 'til WoW came out and started attracting a different kind of player to the genre, whose understanding of MMOs was that they were supposed to be "won", just like the single-player games they'd been playing up 'til that point. Hell, there were people who didn't even know WoW was a MMORPG; to them it was just the next Warcraft game; this is part of what led to people thinking any other MMO they saw was a WoW clone - even when it had been around longer than WoW. They had no idea MMORPGs were a genre prior to that.
Many coming to the genre didn't "get" what MMOs were about, and it was evidenced in the various complaints that started cropping up. "It's too slow", "You can't get around fast enough", "They only don't have an ending because the devs want you to keep playing so they'll keep making money"... so many arguments born from complete ignorance of the genre they were getting into.
And that in itself isn't a problem. I didn't know what a MMORPG was the first time I played one, either. The difference is, rather than resisting and fighting against them, as many in the post-WoW era did, I adapted to them and lost myself in them. I loved feeling lost in a new world.
I can still remember my first hours playing FFXI, which was my 3rd or 4th MMO. I was utterly confused, lost and had no idea who to talk to or what to do. Through the shouts in the area, I could tell many others didn't know either. Yet, no one complained about it. We joked. We shared advice and theories (many of them wrong at that point :p) and information. But we played, and we learned and we adapted to this strange new world we'd been dropped into. This was a strange new world, and we had to learn our way in it. No ! or ? to chase. No arrows or map markers to run toward. We had to figure it out for ourselves, and we had fun doing it. It was also all those moments of talking, helping, sharing thoughts and theories, etc that set the foundation for what would become the strong community FFXI was known for.
Newer MMOs have completely lost that, because nothing is mysterious. Everything is spelled out, pointed out and made obvious. If someone tried launching a MMO today that didn't point everything out, or otherwise show the player exactly where they need to go, people would throw an absolute shit-fit and probably quit the game right then and there. Ask them to figure out where something is on their own, and they rage quit, calling the game "unpolished", among other things, because it didn't hold their hand and expected them to - gods forbid - think.
This isn't me talking like "some old guy on his porch", or seeing through "nostalgia goggles". I've been around to see the transition from how it was, to how it is... and by many measures, it hasn't been for the better. When I first got into the genre, people loved the worlds they played in, and knew them like the back of their hands. They enjoyed working toward slving some new mystery, or reaching some new place. Nowadays, many people barely even notice the world exists, because ultimately, the World has taken the back seat. Hell, worse than that... it's in the trunk. It's been replaced by a series of Quest Markers, Arrows, Area Indicators, sparkling/glowing things, and the ever-important xp bar.
Originally posted by mayito7777
Yeah unfortunately an open PvP MMO seems to attract a number of people who think that in order to enjoy such a game, you have to be "hardcore". And of course, being "hardcore" generally means being a complete and utter douchebag to others with absolutely zero provocation or reason.
Sadly, those are the kinds of people who make it their sole purpose to run as many others out of the game as they can... all the while wondering why the game's population is stagnating. That is until someone comes along that can drop their ass... then they go into a fit of crying and complaining before they rage-quit, themselves.
Crowfall: Raph Koster Joins the Team & Economy/Crafting Revealed
News & Features Discussion « General Discussion
1/22/15 10:18:53 PM
Originally posted by Pyuk
"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice".
Or to put it another way... a 5 second Google search yielded this, and this is only the hands-on work he's done on games. He's done work in other areas besides.
Now, go ahead and shift that goal-post...
Originally posted by rodarin
Yeah, the whole Imperial thing was definitely them 'testing the waters' back then.
Look, I think by now it should be pretty much assumed that any MMO that launches as P2P will eventually go F2P. It's just a matter of when.
I fully expect that even FFXI will eventually make the switch, when ever SE decides the time is right. It'll have had a very long and successful run as a sub-only MMO. Likewise, Yoshi-P has flat out come out and stated that it would be a mistake to assume that FFXIV will never go F2P; this despite the incessant declarations by many that "it will never go F2P!".
WoW, too, will someday go F2P.
To argue that it will never happen is just wishful thinking.
Honestly, for those who enjoy playing those games, that's a good thing, considering the alternative is watching the playerbase bleed down to nothing, and the game ultimately going offline.
As much as I loathe Cash Shops, and the kinds of design choices that are made in support of them, there is one benefit I see from a MMO going F2P. That benefit is giving the game more life, so those who enjoy it may continue playing, rather than having to see it go offline. I think it's awesome when people get to continue playing something they enjoy, regardless of what I think of the game, or its revenue model.
Originally posted by doodphace
Of course, the default/standard answer to that is "FFXI and FFXIV are only doing well as P2P because they're Final Fantasy games".
And of course, the people who'd make that argument will always ignore the fact that FFXIV 1.0 bombed horribly - despite being a Final Fantasy game - and had to be redesigned from the ground up as 'A Realm Reborn'...
I wonder if people will ever stop trying to make arbitrary excuses while completely ignoring the blatantly obvious fact that a subscription model works absolutely fine for a MMO - as long as enough people find the game worth paying a subscription for to satisfy the developer/publisher.
Why are fewer and fewer MMOs working out as P2P? Because not enough people find them worth paying a subscription.
Why are the MMOs that continue to have a sub doing fine with them? Because enough people do find them worth paying a subscription.
It really is that simple.
The reason fewer and fewer MMOs are lasting as P2P is because their designs are completely counter-intuitive to supporting one. P2P MMOs rely on long-term dedication to the game. They depend on having people digging in and playing for the long haul... months or even years.
In most modern MMOs you can "reach the end" within weeks... even playing casually. When you have people reaching the highest level content you have to offer within their first month of service, and your first major content patch isn't due for another several weeks... you're going to have a problem with retention.
Square-Enix, incidentally, demonstrates the two main ways you can maintain a successful P2P model...
FFXI demonstrates it by being a game that is designed (or at least was, up until Abyssea) for the long-term. It was designed as a long-term hobby, with a heavy emphasis on community and cooperation. Hence, over 11 years into its service, it's still doing fine with a subscription.
FFXIV demonstrates it by having consistent updates that introduce a large amount of new content - not only main scenario and dungeon-related stuff, but all manner of side-content and smaller "fluff" things as well.
If you want to maintain a successful subscription-based MMO, you have to do one or the other. Either design for the long-term (something that won't necessarily fly these days), or have the manpower to crank out substantial updates often enough to keep players busy and entertained.
This "finish and forget it" approach to design that many newer MMOs seem to have adopted will simply not support a subscription. F2P/B2P with microtransactions is the only feasible revenue model for them.
General: Atavism Engine Launches --- Build Your Own MMO
News & Features Discussion « General Discussion
1/20/15 7:11:07 PM
Weren't they working on that Islands of War MMO a little while back?
Pantheon has the perfect revenue model it seems (for me)
General Discussion « Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
1/19/15 8:14:57 AM
Originally posted by Robokapp
WoW, Eve, FFXIV, FFXI, DAoC, ESO... And many more that have gone F2P still maintain a subscription option (LoTRO, several of SOE's games, TERA Online, TSW, etc) - because it's still viable, and many people still prefer it to the nickel and dime approach of cash shops.
It amazes me how people, like azzamasin in their post, can make such remarks as "subs are dead", when there are numerous examples that they aren't. It's textbook willful ignorance in action.
It's like someone arguing that the ocean isn't wet, as they walk out of it, drenched head to toe.
I know the hardcore F2P'ers really want to believe that "P2P is dead!", but you're just wrong. Several years ago now, many predicted P2P was dying/going away. Here you are, years later, still making the same claim. You were wrong back then. You're wrong now. So long as there are people who prefer a flat monthly fee, to a nickel-and-dime Cash Shop, P2P/Subs will continue to exist. Thoughtlessly repeating the same mantra, "P2P is dead!", over and over doesn't make it so. Might as well get that through your heads and move on.
So, I randomly clicked on the 'pledge' tab on this site and saw the information for this game. The first thing that struck me was the picture at the very top of that page, immediately below the video. Pic here... I was a bit bewildered by this pic being used, so I thought I'd post here about it to see if there's anything to it.
The picture there is of Anneliese Michel, which was a young woman who was believed to have been possessed by demons, and underwent several years of exorcisms, before finally dying. The movie, "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" was somewhat based on her story. There's information about her here, and elsewhere on the web if you search. There's also some audio taken from some of the actual exorcisms which you can find online. I know YT has a couple videos at least. Warning: It's pretty disturbing stuff.
Whether you believe in demonic possession or not, it's a harrowing, tragic story, and I can't imagine what she or her family went through over the course of that several years.
In any case... I was wondering why the image is included on that page? Is there something related to demonic possession in this game, or was it just selected randomly "because it looks cool"?
Starting to remember why I left FFXI even though I love it
The Airship (General) « Final Fantasy XI
1/14/15 7:32:22 PM
Originally posted by Albatroes
I wouldn't call it a "necro", considering the OP is still quite relevant to anyone who finds themselves in a similar, or at least comparable situation. There's still a feasible discussion to be had on the subject. And really, if I'd started another thread with a similar topic, guaranteed, there'd be someone responding with: "Why start a new thread? Why not just post in one of the many threads that already exist about this topic?" It's a catch-22.
when converting from P2P to No Sub model, why is B2P always skipped?
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion
1/13/15 8:02:56 AM
Originally posted by Superman0X
You know, I think that would be the best of both worlds for all devs (who want to even consider F2P in any form) to go with. And it would also be a benefit to players.
In either case, they get the initial box sale, so that's a confirmed sale. The player has invested in the game already.
At that point, they can offer 2 models - but it has to be two very distinct models, and "the food can't touch on the plate" so to speak.
Have one model that is standard B2P - initial box fee with Cash Shop support thereafter for additional income. They can set it up in whatever way their players are willing to put up with (and that threshold is pretty high, considering no sub fee).
Have the other model an optional standard monthly sub, which allows players to bypass the cash shop entirely.
Whatever handicaps or limits are in place for F2P players must be removed for subscribers. No reminders on screen. No "Item Shop!" button on the interface for "easy access". A subscribing player should see and experience the game as a true subscription game - sans cash shop. It's fair, because at that point, they're getting a guaranteed $15 a month for as long as each subscriber is playing, whereas they're not guaranteed anything beyond the initial box fee with a F2P player.
In both cases, they should sell expansion packs, and I mean true expansion packs. Not mini adventure packs, or 'quest packs' like LoTRO does (man I hate that). None of the nickel and diming crap. Actual, proper expansions that add huge amounts of content to the game - entire new areas, numerous new dungeons, new classes (if applicable), etc...
In that scenario, each type of player gets their preferred experience. Those who don't like a sub, but are open to throwing a few extra bucks at the shop now and again can do that. Those who don't even want to know a cash shop exists, nor have it affect their gameplay, can subscribe and get a more pure gaming experience, rather than one with a virtual shopping mall mixed in.
Think of it like the difference between commercial-supported TV versus commercial-free TV. Non-subbing players would get the commercial-supported version. Subscribers would get the commercial-free version.
Personally, I'd be perfectly on board with such a setup. Of course, I know that won't happen, because I didn't include Cash Shop in the sub option and a developer wouldn't be able to double dip the players in that case.
And as we know, Cash Shops do not benefit the player. They benefit the developer.
Originally posted by Kiyoris
I think you're confusing the role voxels play in modern engines, versus their role in Outcast (which also didn't directly render the voxels, but a representation of them - at least as I recall.
Modern voxel-based engines (EQN, etc) are rendering standard polygonal meshes derived from voxel data. The voxels themselves aren't being rendered, but act more like an underlying "skeleton", so to speak. The terrain we see is built around that "skeleton". As the voxel data changes, the polygonal mesh is updated accordingly... hence you can dig holes, create mounds, etc.
Here's a page that explains the 'transvoxel algorithm', by Eric Lengyel - creator of the C4 engine, which also uses Voxel-based terrain. Through the algorithm he's implemented, you can get an idea of how voxel tech is actually working, in a modern engine context (ie. EQNext, C4 engine, etc).
Edit: To further clarify a point I'd not made as well as I'd have liked after re-reading it.
For fans of Neverwinter Nights (Bioware/Atari) players...
General Gaming « General Discussion
1/12/15 8:00:20 AM
So, I know there are some fans of NwN around here.
I'd like to plug a server I recently returned to, and think is definitely worth a look.
It's called Neversummer, and it's been around for a pretty darn long time. I remember seeing it on the server lists some years back.
It has a lot of very nice custom features, and it's clear its creators put a lot of time, thought and TLC into it. From the opening cut-scenes, it's clear they were going for something more than a "basic" PW.
Here's the official website. I definitely recommend checking it out! Check out the features; you'll see there's quite a bit there.
The easiest way to connect is to create a shortcut to NwN, and add the following after the full file path:
So, for example, the full shortcut might be:
"C:\Program Files\Neverwinter Nights\nwmain.exe" +connect 22.214.171.124:5121
Starting to remember why I left FFXI even though I love it
The Airship (General) « Final Fantasy XI
1/04/15 9:04:29 PM
Originally posted by Wizardry
I can't and won't say the bit in blue is the case... because I don't know. However, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it is.
It's something I saw a lot back when I still played full-time, even before Abyssea. Particularly when they introduced level-sync'ing.
More and more people weened on the "end-game is all that matters" mindset ingrained in them by MMOs like WoW and its ilk, began coming into FFXI, and tried to shoe-horn that playstyle into it, rather than adapting. The result was people power-leveling their jobs, but failing to keep their skill levels capped, or even reasonably caught-up - along the way.
It inevitably gave them issues when trying to take on content at their own level...
As time went on, of course, and people came to the game, - either new or returning from a long break - the routine of "power-level your job(s) to cap and then work on skillups" was already "the norm". It's just "how you played the game", and so that's what people did... in many... perhaps even most or even all cases not realizing they were handicapping themselves later on, for the sake of seeing that level increasing quickly.
This won't be a problem for people who've already done their leveling, of course. Thing is, these are the people telling new players that "this is what you should do" upon starting or returning to the game (it happened to me when I came back to the game after a few years away, so I speak from experience). They have no idea that they're basically instructing players to gimp themselves in the name of "getting to level cap faster".
I could say "it needs to be turned around", but I think we're beyond that. FFXI is fubar'd, and has been for a while now. It is worlds away from the amazing experience it once was, and far beyond being fixed. An emulator based on pre-Abyssea is the only way you're going to re-capture that original experience.