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All Posts by smh_alot

All Posts by smh_alot

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I'm going to (re)post what I posted in another thread, bc I think it's relevant for this discussion too:

"I'll bite. Yeah, rose tinted glasses do play a role. Feel free to find some puppies after you're done reading :) Are rose tinted glasses the sole determining factor for everyone? No, of course not. Does nostalgia and a rose tinted look not play a role for anybody at all? The same, most certainly not. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

It'd be interesting if a survey was held or would be held if people thought their first year(s) of MMO gaming were their best, no matter when they started. And if the first MMO they really enjoyed, was still on the first or second spot of best MMO gameplay experience of all their MMO gaming life. I expect the percentage that answers those questions with yes, based on the accounts of MMO gamers on various forums, will be far higher than a simple 'that 1st game was a better one' would account for. Ofc, it remains guesswork since there is no such survey.

There are research projects however that determined that for most people, their music taste gets 'anchored' in their first formative years of engaged music listening, in their teens up till early '20s. The music trends that manage to steal their hearts in that period of time'll remain their bias and most favored, what comes later doesn't touch us that intensely anymore. Of course, there'll always be exceptions but those were the patterns that those reports laid bare.

Personally, I'm guessing it's kinda like with sex: the intensity and excitement peak that each sex encounter delivers in those first years or those first times that you experience something new is higher on average than later years when you've done it a 100-200+ times. Sure, sex'll always be fun no matter when. But man, those first sex partners, or the sex in those first months with your current partner...

So yeah, I'm guessing nostalgia and rose tinted glasses do play a role, in how some regard their first year(s) of MMO gaming with later on, how much will differ from one person to the next.



There's also the automatic filtering. Some blogs and articles talked about it, how there have been gamers that tried MMO's with UO and EQ, got turned off by the mechanics, left MMO's behind them, only to step in it again and got really excited about them when WoW appeared. Those that liked the mechanics of the UO/EQ type of MMO's stuck around, those that didn't left or got what they were looking for when WoW came around.


That's how I see it. Feel free to disagree :)"



The 'rose tinted glasses' or 'first love syndrome' is btw not something that only affects 1st generation MMO gamers (one gamer more than another), it ofc by its very nature also affects those many millions who started playing MMO's since WoW and for whom WoW was their first MMO. Your first real love, whether it's music, a relationship or an MMO, people'll be inclined psychologically to always be more mellow towards it due to the newness and heightened intensity of impressions that newfound pleasures often leave.


I disagree with the statement that diversity isn't improving - I'm assuming btw that people're talking about the top/AAA segment of MMO's, bc there has always been quite some diversity in the lower-than-AAA budget MMO scene. But if you look at the top segment, you'll see themepark MMO's that aren't 'WoW clones' (ofc, I fully realise that for themepark dislikers ALL themepark MMO's will ALWAYS be 'WoW clones') with lots of differing mechanics, you have a number of MMOFPS type games that'll enter the scene, and you even have themepark/sandbox hybrids and sandbox MMO's to be expected in the top segment within the next 1-3 years. That's more diversity in MMO types and feature mechanics than we've seen in the past 6 years and more.

It's true that MMO gamers who crave certain MMO mechanics have had little choice of those the past years, when those AAA sandbox and hybrid MMO's arrive we'll see how many of those there actually are and if those MMO's with the mechanics they've been craving for will really bring them what they're looking for. After all, a themepark fan won't also automatically love any AAA themepark MMO, and sometimes they love an MMO but the community isn't there to make them really have fun in it, making them return to a former MMO like WoW which as a game they might maybe like less than that new MMO, but that's where their friends are. I expect that that behavior won't be that different when it comes to the sandbox MMO scene. Maybe there'll be people who'll be chasing eternally after that sensation and feeling they experienced when they first started playing MMO's, forever be disappointed no matter what mechanics and features an MMO will bring to the table.

But we'll see.
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by AvatarBlade
The question is, would the action oriented players accept less combat or not as good combat, because half of the resources went to these other activities?

I think they would, because no MMO--not even WoW--can ever duplicate the kind of combat you'd find in other media (Diablo-style games, FPS, etc.).

Look at EVE.  EVE is exactly the kind of combat the combat types say they don't want: it's long and drawn out.    It's been described as "spreadsheet combat" that has little visual appeal.  It's not twitch-based at all.  You see your target, lock it on, set your modules as needed, and watch the result.

EVE combat is a rather simplistic system, and yet combat-wonks love EVE.  But it isn't because of the combat system.  It's because of the sheer scope of the game.

 

I agree, but only partly. The problem here is generalisation. Even with what EVE and SWG had to offer, their playerbase was no more than 300-350k - you can subtract a number EVE's subs as coming from players with multiple subs fueled by real money or ingame currency, and SWG was bleeding subs heavily in the post WoW/EQ2 launch era even before any NGE hit the deck. So, even with what those games offered, you'll have large numbers of MMO gamers who aren't that charmed because of them. Because they can see flaws and weaknesses - for them - that fans of those games can't see or have a blind spot for.


I think it's a good thing if an MMO is wellrounded and offers something for all kind of gamers. But just adding sandbox features won't just automatically create a game that everyone or even the majority of MMO gamers, old and newer ones, will like, nor will it automatically guarantuee that you'll have the right community interactivity that you want for such an MMO. As for gaming enjoyment - I've seen any Bartle type have their fun in both themepark as well as sandbox MMO's. I agree that the more various features and mechanics that support all kinds of gameplay the better, but it isn't some surefire guarantee.
Originally posted by DavisFlight

Everytime someone makes an actual MMO, I play it. Darkfall, Vanguard, even Fallen Earth.

 

Ah yes, the interesting 'only the MMO's I like to play are actual MMO's' approach. Haven't seen that one before. I mean, heaven forbid that there might exist MMO's that someone doesn't like the style of design of, but that are still MMO's. That's such a weird, far out concept! >.>
Originally posted by Grunty

I've been warned half a dozen times in the last 2 years. Over the last 8 years I have probably had a couple of  hundred posts deleted. I half expected most of those deletions and probably a few more warnings.

This site had stagnated for several years with about 1500 people on site at any time as a guest or signed in. In the last year that number has increased to about 2500 at any time of the day.

It looks to me tlike their tighter moderation is paying off.  They have more site traffic.

 

 

 

I think it's more like you had 2 high profile MMO's having their launch, GW2 and SWTOR, of which 1 was highly controversial. Controversy and passionate conflict like that generates a LOT of traffic. Let's see how the site will do after a couple of months with no major AAA MMO on the horizon, and see what the difference in traffic will be.
Originally posted by Cuathon

The people who prefer old style MMOs prefer them because that game style is more interesting. If I hear this rose tinted glasses bullshit one more time I will have to go out and kick puppies.

So the next time you want to make a stupid/moronic/unsubstantiated argument which has no basis in reality, except apparently among WoW players, go figure, think of the god damn puppies and go post in in the WoW forums. It will be on par with the intellectual level of the WoW player base.

I'll bite. Yeah, rose tinted glasses do play a role. Feel free to find some puppies after you're done reading :) Are rose tinted glasses the sole determining factor for everyone? No, of course not. Does nostalgia and a rose tinted look not play a role for anybody at all? The same, most certainly not. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

It'd be interesting if a survey was held or would be held if people thought their first year(s) of MMO gaming were their best, no matter when they started. And if the first MMO they really enjoyed, was still on the first or second spot of best MMO gameplay experience of all their MMO gaming life. I expect the percentage that answers those questions with yes, based on the accounts of MMO gamers on various forums, than a simple 'that 1st game was better' would account for. Ofc, it remains guesswork since there is no such survey.

There are research projects however that determined that for most people, their music taste gets 'anchored' in their first formative years of engaged music listening, in their teens up till early '20s. The music trends that manage to steal their hearts in that period of time'll remain their bias and most favored, what comes later doesn't touch us that intensely anymore. Of course, there'll always be exceptions but those were the patterns that those reports laid bare.

Personally, I'm guessing it's kinda like with sex: the intensity and excitement peak that each sex encounter delivers in those first years or those first times that you experience something new is higher on average than later years when you've done it a 100-200+ times. Sure, sex'll always be fun no matter when. But man, those first sex partners, or the sex in those first months with your current partner...

So yeah, I'm guessing nostalgia and rose tinted glasses do play a role, in how some regard their first year(s) of MMO gaming with later on, how much will differ from one person to the next.



There's also the automatic filtering. Some blogs and articles talked about it, how there have been gamers that tried MMO's with UO and EQ, got turned off by the mechanics, left MMO's behind them, only to step in it again and got really excited about them when WoW appeared. Those that liked the mechanics of the UO/EQ type of MMO's stuck around, those that didn't left or got what they were looking for when WoW came around.


That's how I see it. Feel free to disagree :)

@Beatnik59, great read, good points in your posts! *thumbs up*
Originally posted by Uhwop

I'd now like to draw your attention to Mythic, WAR, and the exodus of developers after the release of WAR.  Yeah, it's perfectly normal for a bunch of developers who made an MMO that underachieved to leave after the project is done.  When you work for a studio purchased by EA, that didn't live up to expectation.   

 

Of course the lack of big success of SWTOR and leaving of the Doctors has an impact, and an effect on others leaving. It isn't as if it's never happened before with other companies, game related or otherwise. Also, it isn't as if a couple of key figures leaving has only 1 outcome. In the period of 2003-2005, a majority of the key figures that were behind Diablo's success, Battle.net, Starcraft and WC3 left Blizzard bc of differences of opinion and vision among others. 30-40 of them. They went to found Flagship, Arena Net, went to NC Soft and ended up making games like Hellgate London, Guild Wars and Torchlight. Yet Blizzard continued up till now, even if it didn't had that top quality of games it had in the 1998-2004 era anymore.


The most important loss is the 2 Doctors. I compare it with Steve Jobs leaving Apple the first time. Even if Apple continued and kept existing, it was less than it was under Steve Jobs. Something that became apparent when he returned and they achieved mega success again. The others, well, not everyone's equally important to the success or high quality of a game, some are easier replaceable than others. Sort of like how in a major league football team some players are more key to the success of a team than others who're easier to find replacements for.
Man, this site sometimes. Seriously, people... >.<

Ah well, I guess it's therapeutic. Complaining instead of doing the sensible, smart thing and simply forget MMORPG's and move on to other hobbies and interests, if you haven't been playing or enjoying MMORPG's anymore for years.
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by JackFrosty

Opening a new server one month after launch doesn't mean anything.

How many that are still playing in 3 does.

Actually it does but it is true that the game still can fall like a rock after a few months. It do however seems to go a lot better than TOR who started to really fall after 6 weeks.

GW2 is the first MMO in many years that have made it good this far at least, after 6 weeks is the population of my server abput the same as it was a month ago instead of half of that (or less). Remember games like AoC? The server felt smaller everyday I logged in after the first week. And there is way less complains in the chat channels here.

So far so good.

 

The server that's added isn't true, maybe it was just some testing they did, but the number of servers is exactly the same as a month ago. As for player activity, maybe your impression is that nothing has changed much, but when you look at various player tools you'll see a significant overall drop, even more so than SWTOR experienced. But I don't think there's anything wrong with it. People should accept that MMO gamers are far more aware of launches of new MMO's and instead of joining or trying them in the course of years after a launch, they'll be there all together at launch. Besides that, GW2 is a B2P game, I can see how it'll be a game that people play next to other games and MMO's, at least that's how I did it with GW and many others with me.
Originally posted by Azrile

2.7M is lower than I was expecting (3-3.1), but I think it was more because of Cata than MoP itself.  They made a couple of huge mistakes in Cata.   Like many people have said, no game will ever kill WOW, it will kill itself.  They spent way too many resources revamping the 1-60 zones in Cata and did not have nearly enough endgame content for non-raiders.  They fixed that in MoP, but it will be hard to tell that to people who quit.

But I think the GW2 debate is over.  WOW is a subscription game, you have to pay $15 per month to play it, and it still has twice as many box sales as GW2 and is double on Xfire now also.   I think the sales of MoP and xfire have shown that GW2 really did not affect MoP as much as just the loss of subs from Cata did.

We will see, I hope the devs learned their lessons in Cata.  They need to add constant updates and 5mans  for non-raiders.

 

? I think you're wrong on various accounts, it sounds more like a wishful thinking thing from your side, but correct me if I'm wrong. The sales of GW2 is 2 mln, MoP sales is 2.7 mln - btw, this is the 1st expansion where they don't mention 1st day sales, and still MoP 1st week sales hardly equals even tBC 1st day sales (2.4 mln) and WotLK 1st day sales (2.8 mln). But this hardly seems the double sales difference you're mentioning, 2 mln vs 2.7 mln.

Also, the double Xfire numbers is wrong. Sure, ofc when an MMO or expansion just launches the number of hours played per day will be stellar, but when you look at the actual amount of players, then it's 9,400 for WoW vs 7,500 for GW2. So, no double here too. And this is supposed to be representing 10 mln WoW subs, ofc GW2 won't have that many sales. Even if the Xfire figures only represent the non-Chinese players, supposedly 4-5 mln, then the diff with GW2 in Xfire is still fairly small.

Btw, this number of WoW players in Xfire right after MoP launch, 9.4k, is lower than WoW had mid August before GW2's launch, 11.3k. I think that's telling.


Sure, WoW will be doing fine for a long, long time still to come. But let's keep it real here. It has entered the next stage of its product lifecycle. There's nothing wrong or shameful to it, it's natural and happens all the time. Doesn't mean one bit that WoW can't be enjoyed for years to come still for those who like it, after all, EQ is still around too.
Originally posted by Icewhite

So many people watching the populations...is ad numerum always the easiest topic?  Or just the surface level of peer pressure response?

OTOH, anything that quiets the proclamations of the prophets of doom--even if just for a couple of replies--is a welcome change.

So not sure how to feel about this op.  Guess I'll give it a thumbs down, just for being the sort of inter-game "neener neener"ing that directly fuels the non-stop fanboy wars.

 

Separate from the usual primitive tribalism that is the mentality of many MMO gamers these days, one reason I can think of why a healthy player population is important, is development resources. Nobody needs the amount of revenues WoW gets (and that Blizzard doesn't use for WoW development at all btw except for a tiny fraction of it), but when the revenues dwindle too much, you can kiss goodbye to extensive expansions etc. A shrunken dev team can only do so much. So that's a reason why a healthy stream of revenues for the MMO company is of importance to the players of an MMO of that company too. The only way to make at least some educated guesses about it, is player activity tools, which beats the gut feeling wild guesses imo.



I don't get the OP though. I think he's wrong.

I checked it, but couldn't find that server nowhere in the list, I did a count, I came up with 24 NA servers, and 51 in total, exactly the number of servers they had early September.

What am I missing?




As for bots, I did see an annoying increase in bots, I saw like 3 times more bots last week than I saw a few weeks ago, but not the 5 bots for 1 player ratio. It can differ per server. I'll be playing this weekend on a new character in starter zones, I'll see if things have worsened by then.
Originally posted by Aelious
Originally posted by eddieg50
Originally posted by Aelious
jpnz

I think there is a balance between something you're given and something you have to really work for. In all facets of life past survival things are appreciated more by how you got them. Yes, games are not life but time spent is time spent.

The "majority" may think that quick and easy gains are fun but for how long? Seems that after about 3 weeks to a month after release the "fun" isn't as fun and it's off to something else. By contrast those with more work involved ate stable and/or slowly growing.

It's a balancing act for sure.

   If someone gave me 10 mil , i can guarrantee you I would be the happiest person alive

 

Lol, point taken but in the same relation would it not mean more if you earned it yourself?

 

True in theory. In reality, people'll will play the lottery and be happy if they can gain easy money in whatever way and often just believe that they've 'earned' it. Give people a choice, that they gain a certain amount of money or other special privileges and benefits either by working hard for it for an extensive amount of time, or just straightaway with some simple actions, and guess what the vast majority'll choose.



There's far too many assumptions in the OP and those agreeing with it, too black and white, and it shows its shaky base.

It ignores the simple fact that people'll regard the first MMO('s) they play differently, more positively than when they've been playing for years. That applies to those that stepped into MMO gaming in the UO/EQ era, as well as those who stepped in with WoW.

Most people weren't really fans of full loot PvP, or player killers galore, or being almost unable to do anything outside of a group or having a few hours in the evening and then having to just hang around for 1-1.5 hr doing nothing until they finally found one. They just coped with it, but given the choice most'd have preferred mechanics to be differently. WoW, even in its vanilla state, was as themepark as you can get. Yet it has people playing and returning to it for years, millions of them, a hard fact that themepark dislikers and sandbox/1st generation MMO fans do their utmost to ignore.


So, how is it that a themepark MMORPG is capable of having MMORPG gamers playing it and returning to it for years and years? This should in their philosophy be an impossibility. Thise people should've left it, or any themepark, after the first month, no longer. Cewrtainly not stick to them for years.

It's simple, really. People play for fun and a good time. What fun is, differs from one person to the next, but if an MMO, themepark or sandbox or otherwise, has people playing them for years, it's clear that those MMO's apparently has gameplay that's fun enough for those sticking around. Like said, people play to have a good time, if possible with friends or other good people. This can be achieved in all kinds of MMO's and online games, not only sandbox MMO's.
Lol, someone used the 'true Scotsman' fallacy. Heh, had to happen some time, I guess.

'Yeah, but those millions of MMORPG gamers that have been playing MMO's for the past years and that are having fun while I haven't been playing or having fun, aren't CORE MMO gamers'


^_^
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Presbytier
I have never met a community of gamers more morbidly obsessed with an unfounded belief in their own demise than MMORPG players. I mean seriously I don't get the general doom and gloom MMORPG players posses; sometimes that alon makes me want to quit playing MMORPGs.

 

I agree.  The negativity in this part of the market amongst the BUYERS is astounding.  Or perhaps it's just the gamers that visit THIS site.  Nonetheless....it doesn't endear me to them or make me WANT to play games with them.  I prefer people who are a bit more positive, proactive, and upbeat, rather than all doom and gloom.

You are both confusing realism with negativity, that happens a lot with people who are too optimistic.

 

The FACT is many big companies have said they will not invest in future MMOs. Many investors have said they would not back future MMOs. Many MMOs, even big scale triple A products by big studios, over the past several years have failed to come close to either expectations or necessary numbers to be called a success.

 

The MMO genre did peak a while back and it is decreasing while being overly saturated with everyone thinking they can jump in and make WoW money instantly.

 

I think it is far worse to stick your head in the sand and assume all is well and everything will always just happen and work as opposed to keeping your head up and paying attention to what is going on around you. That is negativity, it is being at least mildly observant.

 

I hope you're not trying to make the case here that there isn't a whole lot of negativity going around here on this site, far more than average? Personally I think it's easily explainable, mmorpg.com is sort of a resort for many embittered and maybe jaded 1st generation MMO gamers and hardcore sandbox fans who can't enjoy other types of MMO's: those are the groups most left in the cold right now, since many of them have no MMO to play and have fun in anyway and they're not yet prepared to say their final goodbyes to MMO's and everything related to it, only thing left to them is visit MMO sites like this one and complain about how the MMO genre sucks and they're not having fun.

So no wonder that there's more negativity than what's common going around on a site like this. Also not that strange a behaviour, many women do it intuitively too, complaining about the negative stuff in their life against their friends or partners, it's quite therapeutic (a bit generalising here, but not much).


@just1opinion: yeah, that's kinda the reason I didn't have the slightest intention to join an mmorpg.com guild when I saw the announcement of it for some MMO's. I could stomach the complaining from my gf when needed, but if I had a co-worker that'd whine as frequently and incessantly as I see happen on these forums sometimes, I think I'd be ready to stump his head in after a month, a guild with a whole bunch of them... it'd seem the equivalent of waterboarding >.>

As for the MMO market, nothing that odd: we've seen it with the internet hype, web 2.0, etc etc: it was to be suspected that a soapbubble'd arise after WoW's megasuccess, also that the bubble'd burst. All predictable. World goes on, MMO's too. Even more, the crop of MMO's of this year and the next few years show altogether more variety and differentiation in the top segment than in the many years before.
It's easy to make a wishlist. Everyone has one or can come up with one, giving it 5 min thought. That wishlist will very likely also be different from one person to the next. That list is what you like most in an MMORPG. It makes you look at Arche Age as your personal dream fave MMO, because it fulfills most of the points you like most. For someone else, that'll be GW2, for yet another person PS2 and so on.

It also often skips past the negatives of an MMORPG. Hang around any game forum, especially when a game really has gone live, and you'll get to know those negatives easily enough, including the downsides of mechanics you might even favor.


But again, it's always nice to have a wishlist of the things that'd make your own personal MMO gaming time the best for you, nothing wrong with that.
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by smh_alot
Heh. If people really think that SWTOR or BW will be gone soon like within a year or so, they should bet some serious money on it. But I think none will do that, bc deep down they know it's more wishful thinking than a realistic belief that those'll cease to exist anytime soon.

 

It's a bad bet on your part, because BioWare is already gone.  EA bought BioWare in 2007.  BioWare has lost all it's core personell that actually separated BioWare from what people used to remember (mostly recently, but some notables in the past 2 years).  All the vacancies are now filled with EA employees.

 

Taking bets that BioWare will be gone soon? lol get with the program, BioWare is already gone.

 

If that's your criterium, then as good as all game companies are gone, or other companies as well for that matter, bc you'll always have people leaving and joining in the course of time. If that's your criterium, then you could say Blizzard is gone, when the majority of the key players that made their games like D2, Starcraft and WC3 were gone when 2005-2006 came around.

I'm talking about actually being gone, in the real world. A company is more than a few people. Blizzard isn't gone simply bc the Blizzard that some people knew from the past has changed and seen a number of their key people leave, and the same applies for Bioware. If you don't see them making games as Mass Effect series or Dragon Age anymore, or they all turn out to be like DA2, and BW gets integrated and loses its name like Mythic did, then you can say it's gone.

Anything else is just hyperbolic sentimentality, but then again, we see enough of that around on these forums anyway, so wouldn't be a big surprise, many MMO gamers are bit of a chronic dramaqueens anyway.

Well, 2.7 million isn't bad for an MMORPG at all, but it's certainly the lowest for WoW. I think it's the first time that they didn't announce the 1st day sales, and the 1st week sales barely equal the 1st day sales of tBC and WotLK. You also have to wonder, 'so only 2.7 mln people of a 10 mln subscriber base purchased the new expansion?'

Usually you have a lot of people returning with an expansion and a boost. But let's say that half of WoW players is Chines, that's still only half of all other WoW players that bought the expansion. If you take into account that a number of returnees, ex-WoW players, came back for it, what the jump from 9.1 to 10 mln seems to suggest, then it's even less than half of the current non-Chinese WoW playerbase that bought MoP.



So, objectively speaking, MoP did worse in sales than all former expansions. Is WoW doing badly though? Of course not, it's still the most played MMORPG, even if it does seem to be in decline. That's a nice achievement too, I'd say, after 8 years.
I didn't read the articles - will do so later - but hmm, I don't know. Personally, I think we'll see a new dawn for MMO's after years of 'dark ages' in a sense.

Sure, maybe we won't see such huge populations anymore as we've seen with WoW for 1 MMORPG. But I'd say that the top segment of the MMO market since this year and onwards looks a lot healthier and more diverse and varied than it did in the years before.

I mean, look at what we have: SWTOR, WoW with MoP, Rift with Storm Legion that triples the worldsize in Rift and is a huge expansion in other ways too, TSW, GW2, and not that far off, a Planetside 2 and Firefall. Compare that with how it was in the top segment a year ago, or the years before that. Whether you like the mentioned MMO's or not, I see a lot more diversity and variety in flavors and mechanics than the year(s) before.

And it doesn't end with that: in the upcoming few years, we can expect an ArcheAge, Neverwinter, World of Darkness, Defiance, EQ Next and Undead Labs' zombie MMO among others. That's even more added diversity in the top (AAA) segment of MMO's.


So I'm inclined to disagree, I think the future looks better than we've had the past couple of years :-)
Originally posted by Icewhite

What Happened To The Vision?

Wanda Maximoff nuked him. Along with most of the rest of the Avengers. (see: Avengers Disassembled)

He got better, eventually.

Nope. She said 'No More Visions', and that was that. But the Phoenix and Hope will solve everything ^^


Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by CasualMaker
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Well, then I guess you should ask yourself why the game is failing now. I find it hard to believe that Ragnar's original vision for this game was to create a themepark that had, at best, 60 days worth of gameplay in it unless you want to dungeon grind forever. In fact, we know there were major changes along the way, including world faction PvP. The game was dumbed down, and it's clear to see by how robust some systems are, and how lame others are. It's like they mashed two games together to get it released faster.

60 days of gameplay for who? I don't average more than 2-3 hours of gaming per day including weekends (closer to 2) and TSW certainly isn't the only MMO I play. I'm subbed because it will take me way longer than a mere 2 months to see this storyline to end, especially if I want to play through all 3 factions.

I'm a casual player as well. I can assure you that unless you are dragging your feet on purpose, it doesn't take long to finish the game, and that includes grinding your elites and some of the nightmares.

Good on you though. I hope it lasts for ages for you. Game's far too shallow for me to hang out past the story line.

I think it's best when talking about length of gameplay, it's best to talk in concrete gameplay or /played hours, not in actual days bc the average time someone plays per day can vary a lot per person. Gameplay hours is better. For example, I'd estimate to reach level cap in GW2 something like 120-150 hours if you play it for the very first time. However, how long that'll take in real days and weeks, that'll vary from 1 person to the next. Person A can achieve L80 in 7-10 days of playing, while person B might do several months about it, while the actual amount of gameplay hours of the two persons to reach L80 might not even be that far apart at all.


Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by Ortwig
It seems to me they could add opt-in flagged open world pvp in TSW and not break the game that's there today. they have the single server tech now -- what's to prevent funcom from overlaying the feature?

Lack of balls.  The same reason we got a themepark with a killer skill wheel

 

Hmm, I don't know. The modern day horror/dark fantasy setting, the no levels and no classes thing, the more challenging than usual in an MMO Investigation Missions and a number of other quests and mob encounters, I think there are actually quite a number of aspects where they've shown that they're not afraid to stray away from the norm. Doesn't mean that they shouldn't or couldn't do it in other ways as well that they didn't, but it'd be an unfair dismissal of the things they did have the balls to do differently to not acknowledge those. After all, you only have to look at some other AAA themepark MMO's that stayed far closer to the themepark concept and took less risks in changing features how it also could have been done.
Originally posted by kaiser3282
It was like closed because there were already 20 other threads talking about it too.

Not really. I saw all those threads being closed, in a general section even, which led to new threads talking about it being opened. At least at the SWTOR section they said 'here's 1 thread for it, do all the statistics discussing and trolling about it for that game in that 1 thread'. For like 9 months now.

However, when it comes to other games like GW2 or MoP or any statistics debate about those games, it's complete shutdown and censorship. Now if that doesn't reek of double standards and hypocritical censorship, I don't know what will. imo.


I almost suspect that some mod got pissed off when it was being discussed like that about his/her fave MMO, leading to the complete Xfire censorship outside of the SWTOR section, but that'd be too childish. However, still double standards.
Problem is, bot mechanics seem to become better as well. I don't know if anything definitive can be done about them, it seems to me more like an arms race. But I agree that they can be heavily annoying sometimes.
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