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All Posts by k-damage

All Posts by k-damage

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Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by Zapzap

Originally posted by Samhael I am dismayed with the news of 40-man content. I'm not sure why developers think that we think it's fun. It's usually a pretty big pain in the ass to assemble a group of 40 players at the same time for a raid or whatnot. And a few months after launch, it's going to be near impossible.  I hope they re-tailor it so the same content can scale down based on group size.
The devs have said that 40 man content realistically will be logistically impossible for most guilds and is not targeted towards casual guilds but being made for the hardcore guilds.  There is 20 man raid content for casual no competitive guilds.
Yeah, great, except small guilds will most likely have problems doing the 20 man raids too.   Wildstar's focus on "hardcore" raiding has me the most worried about the game's future.
I am welcoming this hardcore gamer's stance with wide arms open. It was harder to form 40 men bands, but it was what made raiding so much more exciting. Large scale battles > mini brawls.   We've been served 10 years of casual mmorpgs already, it's time to give a bit of love to HCG again. If you want casual raiding, just check all the other 25167826178 mmos on the market, and please leave the glimpse of hope we have here :>
Longevity of the game, thats why I advocate a change.   If Wildstar's end game focuses on hardcore 40 man raiding then the casuals will go play something else. The casuals leaving will be the death knell for the game's subscription model. Then all of the pro-F2P people will crow that Wildstar was a big fat failure because it had a subscription. The MMO market will no longer sustain a hardcore 40 man raid end game. You can complain that "the hardcores need love too, you casuals have a million other MMOs to play" but that wont reverse what the MMO genre has become. A hardcore raid focused MMO with a subscription would have done well back in 2006 but in 2014 its going to go down in flames. The flames of $100 million being torched just as Executive Producer Jeremy Gaffney said.
May I differ : casuals are not the most secure investment as an audience, as they come and go erratically. Hardcore gamers, on the other hand, will : stay longer periods (for their guild), create external buzz (fansites), and help the devs in building a better game (more constructive feedback, as more informed).

 

I never understood why analysis pretended that the money is in the casuals. They're an unsafe sustain by definition (*casual*). The argument was often that hardcore are a niche, but the question that was never asked : it's a niche because they're less and less, but why are they less and less in the first place ? Isn't it because studios started to ignore them more and more as years went by ?

I often find official Audience Analysis reports to be incredibly short sighted, taking a result (here, would be "casual audience is growing") as a cause *and* an effect. They take a fact and make it an argument, without ever questionning the source. And this is why we have been stuck for years with the vocal majority quickly turning from casuals asking for more accessability, to hardcore gamers asking for less boredom in mmos.



Hardcore players arent the stable as a rock playerbase you make them out to be. What you described are "fanboys". Hardcore players are just as erratic as casuals.

 

A casual may leave because some other new game came out but a hardcore player will leave because his class was nerfed.


But, players, both casual and hardcore, leave. It is inevitable. The real question is which type will replace those that do leave.


Even when WoW was chasing the hardcore 40 man raiders back in 2005 and 2006 they saw that market was shrinking, which is why Blizzard abandoned 40 man raids.


So, why focus the content on a shrinking market that is already small to begin with?

Will Wildstar have their 40 man Naxxramas moment? Will Wildstar get to the point of only 1% of the population participating the newest raid? Will Wildstar even last that long to get to that point?


Also, hardcore players will bored in MMOs no matter how hardcore you make the PvE. The hardcore will burn through it in days then complain they are bored, whereas the casuals will be content for months.

I think you got a point, but you're a bit overexaggerating the hardcore average behaviour. As you wrote, both hardcore and casuals have their different reasons to leave I agree. But both also have their different reasons to stay. In the end, they're the two poles of an audience, and imho can't live without each other : hardcore bring the perspective about how great a casual could become, and casual bring the very needed lighthearted mood for hardcore not to go insane.

In any way, studios should promote both equally in their games.

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by k-damage

Originally posted by Xiaoki  

Originally posted by Zapzap

Originally posted by Samhael I am dismayed with the news of 40-man content. I'm not sure why developers think that we think it's fun. It's usually a pretty big pain in the ass to assemble a group of 40 players at the same time for a raid or whatnot. And a few months after launch, it's going to be near impossible.  I hope they re-tailor it so the same content can scale down based on group size.
The devs have said that 40 man content realistically will be logistically impossible for most guilds and is not targeted towards casual guilds but being made for the hardcore guilds.  There is 20 man raid content for casual no competitive guilds.
Yeah, great, except small guilds will most likely have problems doing the 20 man raids too.   Wildstar's focus on "hardcore" raiding has me the most worried about the game's future.
I am welcoming this hardcore gamer's stance with wide arms open. It was harder to form 40 men bands, but it was what made raiding so much more exciting. Large scale battles > mini brawls.

 

We've been served 10 years of casual mmorpgs already, it's time to give a bit of love to HCG again. If you want casual raiding, just check all the other 25167826178 mmos on the market, and please leave the glimpse of hope we have here :>



Longevity of the game, thats why I advocate a change.

 


If Wildstar's end game focuses on hardcore 40 man raiding then the casuals will go play something else.

The casuals leaving will be the death knell for the game's subscription model.

Then all of the pro-F2P people will crow that Wildstar was a big fat failure because it had a subscription.


The MMO market will no longer sustain a hardcore 40 man raid end game. You can complain that "the hardcores need love too, you casuals have a million other MMOs to play" but that wont reverse what the MMO genre has become.


A hardcore raid focused MMO with a subscription would have done well back in 2006 but in 2014 its going to go down in flames. The flames of $100 million being torched just as Executive Producer Jeremy Gaffney said.

May I differ : casuals are not the most secure investment as an audience, as they come and go erratically. Hardcore gamers, on the other hand, will : stay longer periods (for their guild), create external buzz (fansites), and help the devs in building a better game (more constructive feedback, as more informed).

I never understood why analysis pretended that the money is in the casuals. They're an unsafe sustain by definition (*casual*). The argument was often that hardcore are a niche, but the question that was never asked : it's a niche because they're less and less, but why are they less and less in the first place ? Isn't it because studios started to ignore them more and more as years went by ?

I often find official Audience Analysis reports to be incredibly short sighted, taking a result (here, would be "casual audience is growing") as a cause *and* an effect. They take a fact and make it an argument, without ever questionning the source. And this is why we have been stuck for years with the vocal majority quickly turning from casuals asking for more accessability, to hardcore gamers asking for less boredom in mmos.

Instead of spending yet another dozen of pages in a random topic about the cosmetics of an upcoming mmo, could we for once focus on the important stuff ... ? Aka combat, like what GlacianNex said below ?

Originally posted by GlacianNex

I would love to see them talk more about combat, abilities, gear and skill progression, arenas, raids, pvp, gear customization, crafting, lfg tool, etc. Instead they post piece of somewhat 'OK' eye candy.

Originally posted by iridescence

 

A lot of newer MMOs seem to be designed to be short term experiences. I know some people play WoW for years and are happy going after their "most recent bad guy" in instanced content. But I'm not one of those people. EVE, on the other hand, has many people who play for years and is much closer to the ideal game I envision but it has elements of grind that reduce its attractiveness to me and made me stop playing.

 

So, here are some things that I would like in a hypothetical MMO that would remain my "go-to videogame" for 3 or 4 years:

 

-Unlimited character advancement. This is probably the most key thing for me. If there is a point where my character flat-out stops progressing except for gear then that is a point where I start to lose interests in the game. "Level cap" should be an alien concept to this game, whether it be through having no levels at all or having so many that it takes many years to progress through them all.

-Interesting classes and races. Many different stats and abilities (at least 50 available abilities per character at high  level). Deep and enjoyable crafting and a player driven economy. (AKA put the "RPG" back in MMORPG)  

-Teamwork required between large groups of players: (Put back the "massively" in MMORPG). There should be many activities that you need a large guild, group of small guilds working together in order to accomplish. Which brings us to....

-There needs to be some form of actual struggle between players. I'm not talking about FFA noob-ganking open world PVP but I don't think PVP should be instanced and segmented off from the rest of the game either. Encourage large scale wars and alliances between players and give new players a large safe zone to PVE in until they are ready to join in the alliance system.

-A very large open world with variation in geography and lore and things like actual taverns in towns to encourage roleplaying. Also, strong limits on fast travel. Nothing kills immersion faster than being able to teleport at will all over the map. Another idea I like is to have the odd more powerful mob go through an area. It cuts down on the feeling of mindless grinding, if you have to watch out for something, even if it's an NPC. Obviously this would only be needed in areas of the world where PVP wasn't allowed.

 

I think a game like this could get away without having a ton of instanced content at launch or coming out with a lot of instanced content every year which seems to be a big cause of failure to newer MMOs 

I think this is the first time on the net that I can read someone nailing so precisly what I would like to stick on every mmo gamedesigner's desk ... thank you :)

Originally posted by Xiaoki

 


Originally posted by Zapzap

Originally posted by Samhael I am dismayed with the news of 40-man content. I'm not sure why developers think that we think it's fun. It's usually a pretty big pain in the ass to assemble a group of 40 players at the same time for a raid or whatnot. And a few months after launch, it's going to be near impossible.  I hope they re-tailor it so the same content can scale down based on group size.
The devs have said that 40 man content realistically will be logistically impossible for most guilds and is not targeted towards casual guilds but being made for the hardcore guilds.  There is 20 man raid content for casual no competitive guilds.

Yeah, great, except small guilds will most likely have problems doing the 20 man raids too.

 


Wildstar's focus on "hardcore" raiding has me the most worried about the game's future.

I am welcoming this hardcore gamer's stance with wide arms open. It was harder to form 40 men bands, but it was what made raiding so much more exciting. Large scale battles > mini brawls.

We've been served 10 years of casual mmorpgs already, it's time to give a bit of love to HCG again. If you want casual raiding, just check all the other 25167826178 mmos on the market, and please leave the glimpse of hope we have here :>

Sounds well polished and all ... but we still have no clue about combat depth (skills interplay, mechanics customization, complexity, etc). Aka the hardcore gamer's drug. For me that's the most important thing in a mmo for it no to become boring after a month (*coughgw2* *cough*).

What is the best solo / single player Massively Multiplayer (Online Role Playing) Game ?

Derp. Derp. Derp. Derp.

Derp.

Acrobatics here are overkill and unnecessary. Doesn't connect with the game's universe imo. Anyway guys, don't base your hype on graphics, we all know the core of an MMO are the combat mechanics diversity (skills, talent trees, etc).
I love how Op's "review" only talks about graphics and music, in a 10 lines paragraph. Now that's serious journalism.
Still no new gameplay change ......... aka  weapon skills, combat mechanics, traits, or talent trees rehaul ... The thing that matter is how you play, not what you consume. You can spit out tons of new content every day if you like, as long as we'll be consuming it the same way we were during last 10 monthes, it will still be boring.

Why is it that every people on the internet that start an argument fight needs to show it to the world ... ?

can't you guys just redirect your fight in PM ? 

Fact : 100% of the argument fights I had that I redirected into a PM ended either in other guy ending his muscle flex because of the frontal adressing, either in both of us suddenly finding a common agreement around the debate.

Originally posted by tintilinic
Originally posted by k-damage

I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, and need more than a dozen of spells to dig a gameplay longer than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.

I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums as soon as november 2012, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.

As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.

And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.

Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves whythey want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.

And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.

I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.

____________________

TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.

SWTOR has some of worst case of skill bloat and it failed miserably.

OTOH, GW2 combat is one of the most fluid and invloved out there.

 

I can't disagree on that, but fluid and involved doesn't equal to varied and lasting, unfortunately.

That's what is even more frustrating with GW2 imo : the combat bases and mechanics are there, and they are good, but there are  not enough choices. So it's a great experience for 1, 2 monthes, and then it becomes horribly repetitive. It's really a wasted opportunity to be another "home" for a lot of mmo vets.

I totally stopped trying to enjoy the game 2 monthes after release. Tried a few more classes, but it was all the same : combat mechanics were not deep enough. For mmo vets who don't need handholding anymore, and need more than a dozen of spells to dig a gameplay longer than a month, the game would lack in this department very much.

I tried to highlight the problem I felt on the forums as soon as november 2012, searching for people who would feel the same, but only a few reacted. All others were more focused on how to acquire latest gear, and how their character look more than how did it play differently on each fight.

As time went by, I read more and more people on the forum highlighting that very problem, saying they wanted deeper mechanics, more spells, etc. But it was too late. Players prefered to express their focus on how shiny their toon would look like earlier, so the devs focused on that during all those monthes. Now a lot of people are wondering why they feel bored to death during fights, finding no more reason to play, even when new content keeps coming.

And that's the tipping point of my hopes for the mmo genre.

Masses do not ask themselves the good questions when giving feedback about what is good and what is lacking. They prefer to rely on their instant impression, without digging it a little bit more. So we end with only the surface of the problems, with things like "I want more damage", or "I want a shiny armor", or "give me cool dragons to fight". But never will they ask themselves why they want more content before having beaten up the actual. Because they're bored with how they interact with current content, simply.

And that, nothing will change it until a majority of people doesn't give proper feedback about the way we interact with our toon 80% of the time : the fighting mechanics. How spells interact with each others, how reactions intricate with each others, how you have to use your brain to prepare a string of spells. Right now GW2 does have such a thing, but only a bit. For someone who discovers MMOs, or even videogames, it might be a blast. But for the average gamer (30 years old, remember, so playing mmos for a decade...), so few mechanics is just not enough. It's just an appetizer.

I observed a lot of players giving their feedback on different forums for a lot of MMOs, and the current % of people who actually ask themselves deeper questions than "how can I do the biggest crit", or "where can I have the shiniest armor" ... well, that % is just ridiculously low for me to hope having another high of gameplay interest in the genre any day soon.

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TL;DR : ALL mmos will be boring after 2 monthes as long as most people won't ask themselves the good question : "Will I still have fun with my char after the 1000th fight ?" And you should ask yourself this question right from the start, even before release, by digging spells, their actions, reactions, and mechanics. Then think, min-max, test, etc... and submit your feedback to devs on this subject, more than on how cool is the boss looking, or how much damage you can do in one hit.

I don't buy anymore "Look at how awesome our game will be" stunts after the GW2 affair.

But I must admit : I really love Carbine's Wildstar videos because they crack me up each time. Keep it on, guys.

Don't want more classes, but for sure I feel I will need more complex and advanced skill mechanics. For now they're good because the game is new, but I can see them becoming a bit repetitive in 1 or 2 monthes.
Originally posted by expresso

I'm 32 :p

If the shoe was on the other foot, say WoW did not feature an dragon/airship battle in this current expansion but did in MOP these forums would be on fire with posts about how WoW stole the idea from GW2.  More of a demonstration of the hypocrisy on these forums than anything else.

If we're going to be vocal about the game we play we need to fair and balanced.

And FYI I am very much enjoying GW2 at the moment.  No ill will towards GW2 intended.

lol, nice shot then ;-)

Originally posted by voxnor
Originally posted by Xzen
I'm just wondering what mmorpg the OP thinks did the airship vs dragon fight first.

 

My thought's exactly - i'd love to hear which one the OP thinks is the 'original'.

Judging by his avatar, I think the (sad) answer is obvious. I love these kids who think WoW invented everything, just because they were too young to play older games.

I'll tell you a very, very ancient secret :

Take your time.

 

And other one :

An end, is an end.

 

You now know kung fu.

What to do ? Well, just like with every other mmo on earth : Reroll.
Challenge, Risk Reward. I missed you my old friends.
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