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Originally posted by SaibotKang Oh I totally see your point.......but then it really just highlights how badly designed EQ2 actually is. SOE decided to create a backstory of a good city vs an evil city which isnt even particularly interesting anyway and then decided to make it a PvE game where players cant actually do anything to their enemies! Surely it must have been blatantly obvious to them that it was a totally flawed idea? It gives the players the impression that the race they pick means something when in fact everyone is actually on the same side. Its an online game where players are supposed to interact with each other in a way that is relevant to the world the game is set in. If its not intended to be that way then SOE should not have set it up as such. Of course no game should be taken completely seriously (its just a game afterall) but if the games lore completely contradicts itself by allowing players to do things they should not really be able to do then......well......why bother having the lore there at all then? Why not just come up with a basic background story with minimal information and just leave the players to it? The lore of an online game is one of the major parts of it. It helps to distract the player from the fact that the game itself is actually rather basic and uninvolving. It helps to suspend the persons belief and immerse them in an imaginative fantasy world. Its a bit like having a Star Wars game in which the Empire cant fight against the rebels. It completely defeats the point of the game. The bit you said about "enemy" races camping the same area and not being able to do anything other than chat to each other......well......thats the whole point isnt it? EQ2's game does not fit the story at all. Surely they could have come up with some way for players to do something! Its an online game for gods sake! Basicly SOE just decided that they couldnt be bothered and instead went the opposite direction and said "ok well we've messed up here havent we......oh well sod it! We maw as well just ditch the storyline and just let everyone team up! Yeah we know it doesnt make any sense but it doesnt matter because people are dumb asses anyway and they wont even notice. They dont care about story or realism. They just want to go up levels and get phat loot. They will just buy any old crap we give them anyway. Ha ha ha! My oh my I never realised making an online game would be so easy. Fancy a cup of tea?" So you dont see how that one aspect kills the story then? What......the fact that the players cant actively participate in that story properly? Hmmm......sorry I fail to see your logic. |
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Originally posted by daarco Very true. Its pretty much like real life.....which is kind of what Darkfall is attempting to simulate as close as is possible in a game. If a player goes into Darkfall with the intention of trying to pick on someone he thinks is weaker than he is then they are welcome to that limited ambition if thats what pleases them. They will never prove it to anyone......but then again who knows? Maybe they will! Maybe the best "ganker" in the game will become known as a legendary bandit leader and have a large bounty placed on his head. Then he will be forced to gang together with other nasty-minded players (a gankers guild) and will be constantly on the run from another particular player who has honed his skills and formed his own band of heroes (anti-gankers guild) to hunt the villain down and keep the world safe from his evil tirrany. I would definately be joining them in the hunt What other mmos currently available offer anything close to this kind of random scenario occurring? I never played Ultima Online so maybe that offered the possibility of something like that happening but I really dont think there are any other games like it......apart from Eve I suppose which isnt really my cup of tea. |
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Originally posted by lotharr
It's funny how you start talking about Ultima Online after first stating "i never heard about a skill of instantly investigating someones skills or attributs." Ultima Online for example has that kind of skills. Yes, I've ganked newbies near Britannia. Even if there are no static newbie spawning points, there most definitely are areas which are meant for newbies. Remember the Britannia's Graveyard? Lets stop referring to them as gankers because in Darkfall there is supposed to be a place for such people. They are called bandits, outlaws, thugs, robbers, cutthroats etc. They will provide an interesting part of the game. They will give the decent and honest players something to hunt :-) Bandits that hang around particular areas for too long hoping for easy pickings will simply get hunted down by players who are loyal to that particular area. In the civilised parts of the game world gankers (sorry I mean bandits) will find life very harsh indeed. They will be the ones getting "ganked". So if you genuinely think that ganking will ruin Darkfall then if the game does ever get released I really do hope you will come and try out your ganking skills. You wont ruin it as all you will be doing is playing the part of a villain which is ok right? |
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Originally posted by sdozer Yes there are skills levels.......but unlike other games they will not be available for other players to see so obviously you wont be able to gank a lowbie when you will have no idea who that lowbie is. This is one of the many things that will set Darkfall apart from all the other mmos......IF it ever gets made. Indeed the combat system might not be all that different to any other game......but then why does it have to be? Something doesnt have to be different to be good ya know. |
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Originally posted by SignusM
Then wtf is the point of playing "hey i just made my first character and look im already leet and can beat anyone yay" stupid stuff. Your point is ignorant, ganking lowbies can be anything ie a toon thats not as developed a toon that is low lvl, a toon that has not been in the world as long as the kid who is on summer vacation and plays 24 hours a day. My point is justified and as for UO being what you say it is I call BS!!! thats like saying mario for the nintendo is the most complicated game ever... i dont dought that it is fun for some, but to make a statment like that is just fubar There will be ganking, that's a given. But with FFA games like this, different rules and laws are sort of spawned. Community will develop, people who gank gankers, people who defend merchants, ambush parties, pirates, and it all makes for a much more dangerous, complex, and REAL game than World of Warcraft. Comparing Ultima to Mario is idiotic. Mario was fun because it was simple. I've seen Atari movie based games more complicated than the multi million dollar blockbuster games released these days. Age means nothing. Ultima was lightyears ahead of its time due to all of the features it had. FFA PvP, treasure hunting, pathfinding, crafting, ships, fishing, a faction and alignment system, teleporters, a deep magic system, I could go on and on. There are hardly any MMOs out now that match up to the feature list that Ultima Online had, because more of the money is in simple games that take your hand and guide you along a given path. Many people are sick of that though (though not the noobs who just found the MMO scene with WoW) but many of the older players are desperate for the level of depth the old sandbox games had. I totally agree. If Darkfall is successfully released then it could quite easily fill a much needed niche in the mmo community. All of the mmos at the moment do all the thinking for you. This game could be a breath of fresh air for more mature people and will also allow real roleplaying to take place where you can actually effect the gameworld. All the kids and numbskulls will hopefully stay in their cookie cutter games where they can be safe from having to think on their own. |
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Originally posted by Apraxis
First of all.. i never heard about a skill of instantly investigating someones skills or attributs. And the second one.. ever tried to camp Britannia to gank some newbies? There are no designated starting zones with lowlevel mobs around.. there are no levels. There are different cities, including the capital city, where a new character can spawn... within those cities you will be more or less protected from the city guards, and out side of them every possible character will run around, the veteran just selling a few goods and the newb out of char creation.. and it will be hard to judge, who is who. Of course pking will happen, and ganking to some extend to.. but it will be a complete different story as in games with levels, level based zones and so on. But one thing is guaranteed, everyone will die and will be looted.. a lot. Live with it, take care of yourself, dont be stupid and take the challenge. You can say what you want about DF, but from a concept standpoint it is one of the best games i have ever read about(at least if you are a sandbox guy with favor of full pvp with risk and reward and a lot of consequences.. which is of course a minority in the mmo community)... how it will be in the end is another story. Brilliant! Well said. Someone who actually clearly gets it! Its good to see that you have not been brainwashed by all the hand-holding mmos currently on the market. Its kind of scary that so many people cant get their heads round what is essentially a very simple concept. Says a lot about people really doesnt it ;-) |
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Originally posted by lotharr For your information, I was talking about skills which are meant specifically for instantly investigating the skills or attributes of the targeted player. Oh, and a gank squad isn't necessarily a group full of high level characters. In a game like Darkfall, the levels could easily be just translated to skill- or the number- of the players. Gank happens when you camp the newbie starting point. Ok sorry I misunderstood what you meant regarding the reading of others skills. That would only be possible though if it is a spell or ability which is directly implemented into the game.....which I really cant see happening as it just doesnt make any sense. What skill in real life allows you to do that? None whatsoever. Even in a fantasy setting it would be rather odd to be able to cast a spell that gives you "Ragnar has 75 sword skill and has fishing at 15"......the spell/ability would have to target a specific skill. Its just.....daft really. I cant see the devs putting something in that is so out of place and stupid that directly helps people to cheat. Come on now. As for the comment about camping newbie areas.......well that has already been asked by someone else earlier in the thread. There are blatantly obvious solutions to this and the only reason it has causes problems before is because it has happened in level based games that were never designed for PvP. The response I gave to that statement was this...... Yeah that is indeed a fair point. I suppose gangs of skilled players could hang around starting areas and wait for new players to arrive. The problem with that is that we dont know anything about how Darkfall will handle that yet. What if there are no specific starting areas? Players might be able to start from a large variety of different places. What if starting areas are protected by guards (which I'm sure they will be)? You are also forgetting that an alignment system is being implemented so players that continually ruin other players fun will be hated by all the "civil" npcs in the game. Its gonna be pretty hard to harrass new players when the gankers cant even get near the starting areas due to armies of npcs wanting to kill them on sight. Basicly from the looks of it Darkfall will make it so difficult and boring to be a dedicated ganker that they will either (1) give up and play the game properly which would actually be more fun and involving or (2) go and gank people in some other more mainstream and less intelligent game. Also dont forget that every time a ganker picks on a player they are running the risk of attacking someone who is in fact NOT a beginning character at all. Whats to stop a more advanced player from simply disguising themselves as a "noob", logging out at a known starting area and then logging back in therefore making it look like they are a new player? The ganker may very well get their arses handed to them on a plate and have all of their fine quality equipment taken from them as punishment. On top of that, the ganker would be classed as a criminal so the "victim" might even get a reward for slaying the scum. Oh what a joyful feeling that would be :) Oh and yes the levels can indeed be translated into skills but......so what? It still doesnt change the fact that you will have no idea what skills everyone else has so its kind of a moot point really. Yes people can gang up on an individual. Again......so what? People are free to do whatever they like. Thats not a bad thing ya know! Gank squads are effectively roaming bands of outlaws or bandits. If a player travels out in the wilderness alone then they run the risk of being attacked by bandits. Thats life! Thats the risk you take when playing a realistic game.......and anyway that player might be a badass and be totally capable of handling a group of gankers. Anything could happen in a game like this. Isnt all of this obvious? Have the current mmos really closed your mind that much? |
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Originally posted by lotharr LordRelic.....you dont get it do you. The game doesnt have levels but you do have skills that improve as you use them. No-one will know anything about your character apart from what they can actually see on your Avatar as those skills are not on display for others to see. How are you supposed to gank the less well developed characters when you have no way of knowing anything about them? So your point is not justified at all. Go and read about the ideas in the game before posting useless uninformed nonsense on this thread. You will most likely have skills to reveal some specific stats on the opposing character. Also, heard about gank squads?
Of course I've heard about gank squads. They are high level characters that gang together in LEVEL BASED mmos that are not properly designed for PvP purposes. Yeah sure I've heard of them. Yes you will have skills. I seem to recall from reading about the game that there are something like 300 of them (someone correct me here if they want as I cant be bothered to go and look it up) that a character can choose from. Ok so you decide to sit down and watch a player fight a monster with a sword. What does that tell you? All it reveals is that he can fight a monster with a sword. If he kills it quickly you will know he is good with his sword......oh hang on......maybe the monster wasnt very skilled itself.....or maybe he got lucky......or maybe he is actually a mage who has enchanted his sword. What else do you know about this character? Do you know that he can turn himself invisble? Do you know that he is also a great archer? Do you know that he can spit a fireball out of his arse? Even if you do figure out that he is a skilled swordsman......then what? So he has a good dexterity or strength score.....what use is that to a potential ganker? Of course trying to figure out the weaknesses of other potential enemies will be important, assuming you come across someone you view as an enemy. A dwarf player will almost definately want to try and kill an Orc player on sight (apparently you get rewards from npcs for killing members of an opposing faction). That dwarf player might also take a strong dislike to a fellow dwarf he sees trading with an Orc too. The point is that this game is being set up with MEANINGFUL PvP in mind and the term "ganker" just doesnt have any relevence......although I suppose you might refer to a ganker in Darkfall as a mugger, thug or bandit. There are different races/factions that you can choose from. So an elf player for example has three enemy races to fight against if they want to. Why would a player go to all the effort of trying to gank someone from their own side when there are enemy players that are meant to be "ganked" anyway? Why risk your own characters life, reputation, equipment and treasure trying to kill members of your own guild or race in a game that has enemy players trying to kill you? Of course this could still happen but then this happens in real life, where nasty scumbags pick on people because they discover a weakness in them. Those players effectively become known as being evil and will be forced to congregate with other "evil" villains. The game will be harder for them though......especially as they will no doubt be hunted mercillessly by bands of noble law-abiding do-gooders.......groups of players that have decided to form their own organisations such as knight templars, witch hunters, city militia etc. Hmmm......the potential for any scenario or situation seems pretty vast actually when you ditch the tired old level and class systems. |
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Originally posted by LordRelic LordRelic.....you dont get it do you. The game doesnt have levels but you do have skills that improve as you use them. No-one will know anything about your character apart from what they can actually see on your Avatar as those skills are not on display for others to see. How are you supposed to gank the less well developed characters when you have no way of knowing anything about them? So your point is not justified at all. Go and read about the ideas in the game before posting useless uninformed nonsense on this thread.
OK dude are you trying to tell me a toon just made is going to look the same as a toon thats lvl 40 or 50 or 300 i dont care. THERE WILL BE GANKING. IM sure it will be easy as hell to tell who is a more undeveloped toon just by what there wearing. Dont try to tell me im not justified because i am 100%. How the hell will you know what the game will be or how it will play have you played it???? oh wait noone has so stfu.
Oh my god you are a bright one arent you! I'm gonna have fun chatting to you.....dude Get it into your thick skull! THERE........ARE.........NO.........LEVELS!!! Got it? Lets try it again. THERE........ARE.........NO.........LEVELS!!! Has it sunken in yet? Answer me this - in real life how do you tell a highly skilled cook from someone who is highly skilled in.....lets say.....fishing? Maybe the cook wears an apron and perhaps the fisherman wears a fishermans cap. Thats about the only clue your gonna get. Even if a person is dressed in a style that fits with the way they believe they should look, it still doesnt give any impression of how good they are. A skilled swordsman might also have picked up the knowledge to cast a spell or two. A highly powerful mage might enjoy wandering around in a fantastic looking suit of plate armour. That hunter you see in the fancy looking cloak and top quality leather armour might actually just be a new player wearing some expensive gifts that were recently given to him by a friend. That ordinary looking guy over there may very well be the most highly trained assassin in the game who is in fact just waiting for someone to try and mug him. You are exactly the kind of unthinking player that this game (if completed successfully) will completely confuse. You will be crying "But how do I do the best dps? Whats the best way to be a tank? Where is the best place to farm for phat loot? What am I supposed to do?". Then you will drift back to the mainstream mmos where all the thinking is done for you. After making the statement in capital letters THERE WILL BE GANKING you then follow it up with "How the hell will you know what the game will be or how it will play have you played it???? oh wait noone has so stfu." Thats interesting logic you got going for you there. All I need to say in reply to that is.........how the hell would you know if ganking is going to be easy in this game? Have you played it yet? Oh wait! No-one has....so stuff you! I'm looking forward to you posting again good sir. Its gonna be interesting seeing what you have to say. Oh and theres no need to say "Well whatever dude! I dont care what you think cos that game is gonna suck anyway and noone will play it cos it wont ever get made so stfu!" because....well.....I just typed your reply for you |
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Originally posted by Kyleran
Absolutely. I totally agree. I dont have much faith in the company either (I'm a pessimist) but then again I dont know anything about them so how could I possibly judge them? The people involved in making it might be brilliant for all I know.......and even if they fail then someone else will take their place sooner or later. MMOs have to evolve. Its inevitable. The naysayers will be crushed underfoot :) |
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Originally posted by HashBrick Yeah that is indeed a fair point. I suppose gangs of skilled players could hang around starting areas and wait for new players to arrive. The problem with that is that we dont know anything about how Darkfall will handle that yet. What if there are no specific starting areas? Players might be able to start from a large variety of different places. What if starting areas are protected by guards (which I'm sure they will be)? You are also forgetting that an alignment system is being implemented so players that continually ruin other players fun will be hated by all the "civil" npcs in the game. Its gonna be pretty hard to harrass new players when the gankers cant even get near the starting areas due to armies of npcs wanting to kill them on sight. Basicly from the looks of it Darkfall will make it so difficult and boring to be a dedicated ganker that they will either (1) give up and play the game properly which would actually be more fun and involving or (2) go and gank people in some other more mainstream and less intelligent game. Also dont forget that every time a ganker picks on a player they are running the risk of attacking someone who is in fact NOT a beginning character at all. Whats to stop a more advanced player from simply disguising themselves as a "noob", logging out at a known starting area and then logging back in therefore making it look like they are a new player? The ganker may very well get their arses handed to them on a plate and have all of their fine quality equipment taken from them as punishment. On top of that, the ganker would be classed as a criminal so the "victim" might even get a reward for slaying the scum. Oh what a joyful feeling that would be :) |
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Originally posted by LordRelic
Then wtf is the point of playing "hey i just made my first character and look im already leet and can beat anyone yay" stupid stuff. Your point is ignorant, ganking lowbies can be anything ie a toon thats not as developed a toon that is low lvl, a toon that has not been in the world as long as the kid who is on summer vacation and plays 24 hours a day. My point is justified and as for UO being what you say it is I call BS!!! thats like saying mario for the nintendo is the most complicated game ever... i dont dought that it is fun for some, but to make a statment like that is just fubar LordRelic.....you dont get it do you. The game doesnt have levels but you do have skills that improve as you use them. No-one will know anything about your character apart from what they can actually see on your Avatar as those skills are not on display for others to see. How are you supposed to gank the less well developed characters when you have no way of knowing anything about them? So your point is not justified at all. Go and read about the ideas in the game before posting useless uninformed nonsense on this thread. |
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Originally posted by Aragon100
Well thank you. There always have to be a first. :P Have a pat on the back from me too Aragon. The reason yours is possibly one of the more intelligent posts on this thread is because you simply state facts without attempting to predict the future like so many other retards seem to love doing. The reason quite a few people are getting excited about Darkfall is NOT because they think the game will be a success but rather because the ideas behind it are great. What it OFFERS is pretty much an online gamers wet dream. The yaysayers and the naysayers can shout about how it will fail or succeed but as no-one knows about its state of progress their opinions are irrelevant. |
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What makes you think this game is going to be good?
General Discussion « Darkfall 7/01/08 11:01:08 AM
Originally posted by brihtwulf I do understand your view and partially agree with it. I have a feeling that Darkfall may very well fail......but the reason why people are fans of this "potential" game is obvious. It offers everything that other mmos dont have. Freedom to be and do whatever you like and a system that if done properly will allow this to happen effectively. Lots of people say that FFA PvP cannot work but they are all just dumbasses that cant think outside of the box. They are just going by what they have seen in other mmos that never implemented it properly. There wont be any ganking in Darkfall because as everyone knows PLAYERS DONT HAVE LEVELS. There is also NO CLASSES as it uses a skill based system. You will have no idea what another player is capable of. You can perhaps make judgement by what they are wearing and carrying but that doesnt mean anything. A person might be carrying a walking stick and wearing a loincloth and yet be highly skilled with that walking stick and be able to fire spells out of his arse! Equally a knight in shining armour might actually be a rubbish swordsman and is actually just wearing all of that stuff for show. Then there is the open looting system. Idiots moan about that too simply because they cant think it through properly. Sure someone could kill you and take all of your stuff but for them to do that they also have to risk being killed and looted themselves. So a person who goes into the game thinking "Ha ha! I'm gonna kill someone and rob him and really piss him off" will end up rather frustrated when they find themselves picking on the wrong person and having the tables turned on them. Its basicly not all that different to real life actually. The reason why people are liking the idea of Darkfall is because its features are very good ones. They offer realism and a meaningful world to play in which just doesnt exist in any mmo around at the moment. Sure it might fail at its task but if it succeeds then Darkfall will stamp all over the other "themepark" mmos by highlighting how incredibly limited they all are. If it succeeds Darkfall will be the only mmo of its kind and will definately stand out from the crowd. Thats a big "if" though. |
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Originally posted by AOCtester Who cares if Funcom hypes its product. If you were part of a company that made a computer game wouldnt you do everything you could to make it sell? So congratulations for deeply researching lots of trivial information that no-one cares about. Maybe one day you will bring the evil Funcom empire crashing down in a cloud of smoke and debris and everyone will gasp in amazement as all of their terrible lies will be revealed to the world. Give yourself a little pat on the back by being a Level 80 Boring Person. |
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Originally posted by Elsabolts Thankyou. At last I can rest comfortably in the knowledge that I am not the only one. It seems that not everyone is so willing to suck up any junk SOE feeds them in an attempt to pander to fluffy people. Oh I've made an evil troll character but my friend is a good fairy. SOE please make it so we can play together even though by the nature of the game we obviously should not be able to! Boo hoo hoo! Trolls and Fairies going on a picnic together? Get stuffed LOL |
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Originally posted by Peregrine2 Yeah your right. Thats just the way EQ2 has evolved unfortunately. I'm sure I remember it being much better and more believable in the original EQ but maybe evil and good races liked each other in that one too. I'm sure they didnt though. Oh well there will be better games coming out anyway so no worries. I dont play EQ2 now anyway as its far too poncy for my tastes so its not really an issue for me any more. |
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Originally posted by funnylumpy Yeah.....ummm.....you missed the point. Most games are indeed based on a good vs evil plot. However most games stick to the plot while EQ2 does not. Your alignment is clearly defined at character creation by your race (which then gives you access to the relevantly associated good or evil class) but it allows creatures of opposite alignments to work together which is ridiculous. |
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Originally posted by APRAurore Like I said most players of EQ2 have this view. Thats fine for them of course. Its also why I have now left the game and gone back to playing WoW (yet again). I like the level of detail in EQ2 (although the gameworld is certainly very lifeless and wooden in comparison) but despite its cartoony look WoW sticks to its storyline and has a much more convincing and well designed gameworld. It perhaps wouldnt be too bad in EQ2 if it wasnt for the fact that the races are so extremely different. However I cant just "ignore" the players race when they are a hulking giant Ogre or some green, slimy, snarling Troll......a very clearly racial enemy of a Dwarf, Halfling or an Elf for example. SOE may as well go the whole way and allow us to play as Gnolls and Orcs or any of the other monsters for that matter. Actually sod it! I want to play as an evil Undead Sentinel or maybe a Gelatinous Cube that has decided to betray its kind and be "nice and fluffy", completely going against the essence of what it actually is. Antonia Bayle can then go to war against Freeport with her army of undead, demonic monsters! Hmmm......Lord of the Rings would have been a brilliant film if SOE had got involved with it lol. Orcs and Goblins fighting alongside Elves and Dwarves! Fantastic!! LMAO! As for roleplaying it......well......there isnt really any choice is there. Its not down to the players.....its down to what the badly designed game says......and if the Troll player has done the stupid task of killing a billion Gnolls so he can be labeled as "fluffy" then there isnt anything I as a player can do about it is there. Thats not roleplay. Thats having my ability to roleplay effectively taken away.......but like I said roleplaying doesnt really matter in mmos and EQ2 highlights that even more than other games. |
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Your a noob for playing *Insert MMORPG name here*!!
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 6/28/08 11:07:20 PM
It doesnt really matter though does it. People have always attacked each other over anything and everything. Why do you think nearly every game is based on warfare and killing things? Its because we enjoy attacking each other. Human beings like to feel attached to things so they can feel comfortable. Its like that in real life and it no different on the internet either. In the online gaming community people have a tendency to flock together under the banner of their favourite game.....a bit like a virtual tribe I suppose. Your only gonna risk being a target of an insult if you post your views on an online forum such as this one. If you do that then you're fair game as everyone is totally free to say whatever they like. No real damage is done so what does it matter? Its just a harmless way for lots of angry people to vent their frustrations on others. I certainly dont think its anything to worry about. Let the warfare continue! |
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