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Originally posted by Cerion
Well of course......they're all inter-changeable. LOTRO, WoW, Aion, EQ2, WAR, AoC etc etc. They're all the same old bollocks lol |
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Originally posted by cyandk Aion has the best pvp out right now imo. Give Aion a year of updates and new content and it will only get better. GW2 might outdue Aion but if it doesnt Aion should deliver for pvp fans for the 1-2 years easily.
Ye... well... i was defended a fort with 24 level 40+ ppl and we got killed in like 20 sec by the elyos.... If thats the best PvP out there, the MMO genre is fucked.
The mmo genre has always been fucked lol. Every couple of years a new low quality mediocre game gets added to the pile. People jump onto each one as it gets released and then fall off it again and go back to drifting between the previous games they played (such as WoW, the instigator of all of its "cash-in" clones) in the hope that they might find some magic spark that they missed the first time round........like a bunch of junkies trying to find the first high they got when they first injected themselves with their first mmo. Thats why there are an endless stream of posts from bored gamers constantly looking for a new game to play........and an endless stream of "copy & paste" replies listing the same old tired games over and over again. The real quality lies in single player games not mmos. Sadly Aions PvP probably is considered to be good by the low standards of other MMOs. Its not like it has much in the way of competition is it. The only titles people can ever really mention regarding decent PvP is EvE and Darkfall......oh yeah and WAR lol. Yep we're not exactly spoilt for choice. |
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Originally posted by zeowyrm
I like WoW. What it does, it does very well, and can be quite fun. However, it's the WoW community I detest, and I know I'm not the only one.
Blah blah blah the wow community is horrible blah blah blah .......even though people come and go between mmos all the time so there is no fixed community in any game. The idiots are the ones that get noticed in all mmos because they are the ones spouting non stop crap in the general chat channels.......and as WoW has more people playing it than any other mmo you're naturally going to see a lot of crap in the chat channels. The behaviour of those vocal morons is not indicative of the thousands of other quiet people who are just getting on with playing the game. Dont judge ALL the players purely on what you see in general chat and occasional random jerks you get in PUGs. I personally havent really seen any big difference between the so-called communities of these mmos. They are all hit and miss all the time. In virtually every mmo I have played I tend to find that there are some decent people to be found.......surrounded by a sea of morons. |
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Originally posted by Dat1Guy
You dont need any help choosing which game to play. In your OP you have written 1 short line of text about Wankhammer Online and two paragraphs about WoW. Hmm I wonder which one you prefer? Both games will bore you senseless fairly quickly but WoW is obviously the better game out of the two. Wankhammer is just a low quality WoW knock-off anyway. |
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Originally posted by DonnieBrasco
Yes, I did not mean it completely restricted on character progression. You MUST, however have some kind of progression in a game, if not character, then story, or what you described - development, joint goals, you name it. However, if you check every game in every genre, there is hardly any game with no character progression. In FPS games like Half-Life, you get to have better weapons - that's a form of character progression as they make YOU more powerful. Anything that makes YOU powerful is a way of progression, even if it is achieved by working for a common goal, and not changing any specific stats connected to your character and your character only. In theory strictly, it might be possible to imagine a game where your character remains the same all through the story. Although, it's not even easy to imagine, and I can hardly imagine that a game of this kind would be successful at any level, let alone commercially. Again, I have no written proof, but I definitely think that the majority of players play to become stronger, or at lease go through a story of some kind, in any game, let it be MMOG, FPS, RTS, Adenture, even racing games (GRID, etc - all new racing games are based on progression). Even books and movies (where you have 0 interactivity) usually have progression (and not only in the story, but in the main character too). This is the very nature of humankind. DB
I agree with everything you said there. People naturally seek out a way of making some kind of progress in virtually everything they do. The urge to move forwards has never left any of us ever since each one of us won the great sperm race and achieved the mighty victory of being born. No wonder there are so many unsatisfied people in the world. What on earth could ever beat that kind of achievement? However the focus on self improvement in MMOs seems a bit over the top to me and is really just a tradition from single player games that games developers seem unable to break away from. There is so much potential for other forms of progress and achievement in online games which just seems to get ignored. Sadly I think you may be correct with your comment about a game that tries to break away from personal player growth being unsuccessful. Like you said virtually every game in every genre has the players focusing on themselves and pretty much nothing else. Everyone seems to want that feeling of being powerful......which is odd really because thats precisely something that never really happens in MMOs because everything you encounter scales with you anyway......so really player characters dont actually improve at all. Most of these games are geared towards the individual in which our actions and the adventures we go on have little to no relevance to the people inhabiting the same gaming space as us........which seems to completely contradict the notion of playing a shared game in a supposed "virtual world". Its every man for himself.......because we literally dont have any other choice. People have been conditioned to think this way for many years and expect to have this false feeling of power fueled by games (addiction?) and if they were presented with an MMO that doesnt reward the player with level ups, stat increases, shiny gear with bonuses and other superficial rewards then most people probably wouldnt play it........which is a shame because I would actually like to see a good MMO that doesnt focus on individual player greed. I know there are a few around but they dont seem to offer much in the way of quality. I would find it quite interesting to play an MMO that has had this form of carrot chasing removed. The Chronicles of Spellborn attempted this to a small degree by removing the gear grind from their game. All the items in the game had no stats and were purely for visual fluff. Unfortunately the game was still totally static so players had no other goals to persue. It was still a game focused on individual player growth just like any single player game except one of the addictive aspects (collecting gear) was removed.......so it didnt really improve anything. It would be nice to see an MMO where I just create a character and decide what skills, abilities or special powers I have from the beginning and then thats it. Thats my character. Why should he change dramatically every hour? Why do I need to pick up new armour and weapons all the time? In all the good fantasy films I have seen, the characters arent continually scavenging new armour and weapons. They basicly stay the same throughout the entire film.......and yet it doesnt make them boring. Characters in MMOs should be interesting to each other because of the creativity of the people behind them. Each player should effectively be an actor as these are supposed to be roleplaying games. Yet these games dont really allow us to do anything other than follow pre-defined treadmills and watch numbers increase on our character sheets and new skills appear in our hotbars. Without personal player progression there would be no need to follow any kind of levelling treadmill. No repetitive endless slaughtering of mobs......unless I knew it was furthering some other goal in the gameworld. How many people would actually play any of these MMOs purely for fun if they knew there was nothing to gain personally from killing stuff? People complain about having to grind in games......and yet the only reason it is necessary is because the games are purely focused on personal player growth and there are no other goals to work towards. Anyway sorry I'm rambling away yet again. Just firing my thoughts out lol. |
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Originally posted by DonnieBrasco
It would be an MMO, but it sure would not be an MMOG - no progression, no game. DB
No progression, no game? Not neccessarily. I suppose it depends on what kind of progression you're referring to. From the stuff said above it seems that you are referring to personal player progression and thats something which isnt actually neccessary in a game. There are other forms of progression that would actually be better suited to MMOs in my opinion. You dont need to have personal player progression for it to be a game. What about working towards other goals instead of having every individual only focusing on themselves? These are supposed to be MMOs and yet personal player progression encourages people to be self obsorbed and selfish, ignoring the people around them. Some examples might be (and these apply to games in general not just FE)....... Fighting to help a particular npc faction become more dominant in the game world. This npc faction would be hostile to other players who belong to an opposing faction........so your efforts would shape the gameworld and effect the players around you. Working together with others to build a structure. An example of this might be to build a bridge across a ravine to a secluded piece of land that holds something useful to some players and detrimental to others.......or you might work with allies to build a fortified gun turret to guard a valley. This would then provide an objective for opposing players. Single player games vs realistic game worlds. Games do not have to involve player characters increasing in power and becoming god like. A horde of angry goblins should still pose a threat to anyone regardless of how much time they have spent killing things. Chop chop chop.....ding! Now I'm a god. How does this make any sense? The progression system works for single player games but its completely unneccessary for MMOs. Story progression........does not need to be connected to the power of a player. An npc has asked you to go and kill a Balrog and you're not strong enough to do it on your own? Solution 1 - Go and grind some goblins until you're high enough level. Solution 2 - No-one can fight a Balrog alone. Go and get some help. Form an army even. I know which option I prefer the sound of. The realistic one wins for me personally. But......but......Gandalf fought the Balrog on his own. Yeah and he's a not a player character. Why have I started talking about bloody Lord of the Rings? Somebody slap me please. In fact why is it that the big powerful beasts ALWAYS have to be defeated in games? Which leads me to....... Players do not have to become epic super warriors of ultimate doom by the end of the adventure. MMOs do NOT need to turn every single player into "The hero who can defeat everything". Of course I'm just rambling here and this has little to do with Fallen Earth as FE follows the same rules that virtually all other MMOs follow........primarily that it is a static MMO based on single player game design where the primary (in fact the only) focus of progression is the individual players character and the story which only applies to each player personally. There are no other goals to work towards other than the raising of numbers on your own character. It has been the standard for single player games for years and games developers seem unable to shake off this way of thinking when making MMOs.......which is a shame because it results in people playing an online single player game with optional co-operative features. Thats not neccessarily a bad thing but I personally prefer the idea of playing a game in an online virtual world rather than the illusion of one. It just seems like a waste of potential to me. |
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Originally posted by Angelof2070
I am a stern supporter of fast travel in all forms. I want to play the game for fun, and waste as little time as possible. And no, pressing Numlock and going afk for 5 minutes is in no way FUN.
Careful. Due to your claim that you dont want to have your time wasted, you will now be acused of being...... ......a powergamer who rushes to the level cap ......one of the "me me me must have it now" crowd ......someone who doesnt appreciate the "beauty" of a big open gameworld (even though in real life people use cars and public transport all the time to reach the parts of their lives that matter) ......the type of person who is ruining the genre ......someone who wants everything to be "easy mode" (even though spending ages travelling long distances is not challenging at all and has nothing to do with difficulty.......although it IS an endurance test as you attempt to stave off boredom) I'm sure there are other accusations which normally get thrown at people who prefer games to be fun by mmo snobs. I cant think of the other standard replies they normally come out with right now. |
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Originally posted by Lethandis
That would be a really good thing to do. Let the players dictate amongst themselves whether a fast travel system should be available in the game through their in-game actions. Actually make it part of the game world. That would actually turn the game into a proper mmo where player decisions actually matter to each other. Unfortunately I think its quite unlikely that Icarus will implement something like that in Fallen Earth. With the exception of faction towns, everything else that Icarus has put into the game has been static content that players cant effect or change. I'm sure if they were capable of making an interesting gameworld that the players could change and influence then they would have put interesting features like that into it from the very beginning. Hopefully I'm wrong though. |
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General: Jennings: Morality, Controversy & Games
News Discussion « General Discussion 11/25/09 7:55:40 PM
Originally posted by hogscraper
It is actually quite disturbing when I really think about it. Thats the problem though. No-one thinks about it. No-one cares. Non-violent games do get made but they are vastly outnumbered by the violent ones. I think this is due to the fact that we have lived in a male dominated society for......well......forever I guess. As a result the majority of computer games seem to be aimed at men. The same goes for most sports too I guess. There ARE peaceful games that have been successful such as puzzle games like Tetris, cerebral adventure games like Myst or life simulators like The Sims but games developers tend to go where the money is......and death has always been the number 1 best seller. It always has done. Men are fascinated by it. Its ingrained in most of us. In the dark old ages of our past we used to pay money to watch people kill each other for sport. We used to gather to watch executions take place. Even our most dominant religion on the planet is a death cult that is focused on what happens after you die and is obsessed with a battle between good angelic beings and evil demonic monsters. Hmmm and who invented that one? Yep that one came out of the minds of men. So yeah when a 9 year old girl asks a simple straight forward question like "Do you have any games that dont require me to commit murder?" it does kind of put it all into perspective. |
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General: Jennings: Morality, Controversy & Games
News Discussion « General Discussion 11/25/09 5:38:17 PM
That was a pretty good article. The paragraph about beating up monsters for their lunch money and becoming a mass murderer made me grin........but at the same time I think its a real shame because its so true. That really is what all of these mmos boil down to - killing everything in sight without having to think or find any other alternative solution. This is perhaps why I never put any effort at all into treating any mmo as a roleplaying game. I've just never come across one that I can take seriously enough. Its kind of hard imagining a character with depth when you're stood in a field surrounded by crazy nutjobs hacking up the wildlife because they have nothing else to do and the local "cleric of happiness" wants a new pair of slippers. It also doesnt help that I am given no choice other than to be a violent mass murderer. I remember when I used to play crappy old EQ2 with its supposed good city and bad city. I really couldnt see what was "good" about Qeynos at all.......except perhaps that it was puke inducingly childish and could give Harry Potter a run for his money. All the quests were still about murdering everything in large numbers so all of its inhabitants were just as nasty and uncaring as its rival city. I wasnt given any opportunity for playing as a good character at all......unless I was willing to skip half of the quests. I have always thought it would be interesting to see an mmo where the players could choose different ways of interacting with the worlds denizens rather than just killing them......basicly a non violent approach. I'm not sure how that would work but I bet there would be a way of pulling it off. I know Vanguard had a go at it which was one of the few things I respected about that game. Unfortunately it was total shit and just boiled down to playing a crap card game that had no real influence on anything and just led me through reading paragraphs from a block of text like an online book. It would be great if an mmo successfully managed to implement some form of diplomacy. Also I wonder about the difference between people that feel an emotional reaction to films or games and those that dont. Even though I know a film isnt real, if its done well then it can still get an emotional reaction out of me. In fact I seek those kind of films out. There have been quite a few films that have made me feel very uplifted and others that have brought tears to my eyes.......and I'm glad of that fact. I wouldnt have it any other way. In fact I cant help myself from trying to feel immersed in whatever film, game or book I am experiencing. Why would a person NOT want to feel anything? I guess its what seperates the people who have an imagination from the ones that dont.......the ones whose only response to a deeply moving scene is "I dont care its just a film". Good films, games and books are wasted on those types of people in my opinion. In fact I think this is why so many mmos are such a load of bollocks now. They lack depth because they are catering to the unimaginative masses that dont care about having an emotional response to anything. Its just "kill monsters......collect loot.....go up levels" and anything involving the creative use of imagination on the players part is just left out and ignored. As a result roleplayers in mmos are reduced to typing out irrelevant homemade stories in the chat channels while the non-roleplayers run past them on a fed-x killing spree (ie playing the game). Its ironic that you have to NOT play the game if you want to roleplay. |
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Originally posted by gauge2k3
How do you KNOW that loads of new players are subbing to the game? Do you have any proof of this? |
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Anyone Else Waiting For A New Sandbox?
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 11/23/09 6:16:49 PM
It would be really nice to see a decent online game get released where the players can actually influence and change the gameworld. I'm not waiting for one though as I dont expect to see one any time in the near future. Who knows maybe in 5 or possibly even 10 years time a good one might pop up. |
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Sandbox....themepark......blah blah blah. There seem to be an endless number of threads talking about this with every game that comes out. It would seem that as time goes by more and more people are seeking more freedom in their online games.......and as a result each year there are droves of unsatisfied gamers flocking to the forums. This desperation that some people have for a "true sandbox game" does seem to cause people to apply the sandbox label to pretty much any game that isnt totally linear though. Show people the slightest whiff of freedom such as a big empty landscape where you can see long distances or a large selection of predefined items to craft with the magic "create" button and you will see them cry "sandbox!". Fallen Earth seems to have had this effect on a lot of people even though its just the same as any other standard mmo. Basicly the devs have managed to provide a sandbox "feeling" without actually having to provide any game mechanics that would be expected in a so-called "true sandbox"......but then what is a "true sandbox game"? Second Life in a structured game world perhaps? So no Fallen Earth is no more a sandbox game than any of the other mmos we have been seeing for years. It has a static gameworld which the players can do nothing to change or influence, although it does have a limited degree of freedom where players can swap ownership of faction towns I suppose and they are free to wander around and do quests in whatever order they like (to a certain degree). Either way it doesnt matter. Its a game which is keeping a number of people occupied and entertained and thats all that matters. I initially quite liked the game but I quickly got bored of running around a big static gameworld dotted with mobs, harvest nodes and text files.......but thats just me. Other people enjoy the game for exactly that reason and the "feeling" it gives them which is fair enough. Its certainly not a bad game which is what the OP seems to be implying. It does at least offer a little bit more freedom from many other mmos so I guess its a step in the right direction.......even if its only a tiny little step. Icarus seem to be a pretty good company too. |
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Originally posted by Yamota
As you have said multiple times yourself, a small minority of players are able to acumulate a large amount of cash in the game. So what are the chances of you encountering those few people in the games universe? According to you most people are not able to make as much money.......so it stands to reason that most of the people you encounter in the game will be flying cheaper ships just like yourself.......so whats the problem? According to you the poor players vastly outnumber the rich players anway as only "a select few" can become rich.......which is bollocks by the way but I'm just going along with your twisted viewpoint. Basicly your complaint is that people who have lots of time to devote to the game have the opportunity to become richer and have access to bigger and better ships. Your complaint is that this is unfair. You believe that you should be able to play the game for a few hours and yet have access to everything that a player who has dedicated lots of time to the game has. Well THAT would be massively unfair. So what do you want exactly? Do you want the ability to acquire money to be removed from the game? Should everyone be given 1 type of ship to "make it fair"? How would you suggest that players gain access to bigger and better ships? Even if you do remove money from the game, there still has to be something that determines when or how people gain more powerful ships? So what then? Make each sector only allow certain ship types? In other words remove player freedom simply to please people who cant handle losing some pixels? Do you want the death penalty to be removed so when your ship blows up it magically reappears at a station? Do you want the game to be dumbed down and simplified just so that people like yourself who dont have much spare time can hop into the game and get a false sense of satisfaction at blowing up players without there being any risk to yourself? EvE is one of the few MMOs on the market where players have to take a risk when engaging other players in PvP. When you fly out into deep space you never know what you are going to be up against. You might encounter a lone player in a cheap ship who is easy pickings.......or you might encounter a fleet of battleships that could blow you to bits in a few moments. How you deal with that is entirely up to you. You can stay and fight......or you can try and escape......or you can call on the assistance of team mates......or you can do any number of other things. Everyone is free to choose whatever course of action they like to deal with any situation. You can even take out those big bad nasty ships if you are sensible and co-ordinate your actions with others. I bet you just play the game solo all the time right? This level of freedom in an MMO is a rare thing. You however dont like it. You view it all as "me vs each other individual" like most solo-centric games. You think you cant achieve anything in the game because there are big bad meanies with lots of money who will ruin your fun with their big ships.......and yet its not simply "you vs everyone else". You have the freedom to use your brain to deal with any situation and yet your are too lazy to take action. Why cant you do what other players do and join a corporation? Its an MMO for god sake! I bet you fly around on your own in deep space and then get annoyed because a player in a better ship blows you up. You want everyone to be on equal terms regardless of how much time they invest in the game? Well its never going to happen. There are however LOTS of MMOs available that have risk free PvP where zero effort is required. Why dont you just play one of those and stop complaining about a game where player decisions actually matter? EvE is an MMO where a heavy time investment is required. However if you dont have much time to spare you can still survive in the game if you are careful, make the right decisions and work with others. However dont expect special treatment just because your time is limited. There are plenty of people playing EvE that dont have much time to commit to it just like yourself. Complaining that its unfair is just daft and pointless. Gdemami is correct. If you want PvP to be fair and equal regardless of how much time or effort you put into the game then EvE simply isnt the game for you. Amazing how people are incapable of seeing nuances but just sees things in black and white. PvP or no PvP. Lose everything when you die or lose nothing when you die. PvP is either fair and equal or completely unfair and unequal. Either remove ability to aquire money or keep it the way it is. 0 or 100, black or white. You talk to me like I have never played an FFA PvP game before. I have played many, the best being Asherons Call DT and where as that game was FFA PvP it was not lose everything when you die but rather lose enough when you die to make it matter. Also equipment in that game mattered some but mostly it was about your skills (player and character). But to answer your question (if they were questions, sounded more like statements where you are saying how I am and feel). I want the freedom to do things in an MMORPG, I want there to be consequenes for dying. However I do think the game would benefit from adjusting the penalty downwards so what when you lose a BS you dont need to spend several hours, grinding level 3 missions to get it back. Other than that I think Eve is a good game. But no, it is not for me right? Because I think the death penalty needs some adjustment? Is it the same for any aspect of the game? If people find that the UI needs improvment then Eve is not for them as well? Nothing in like is perfect and very few things are black and white. It is called balance and nuances of grey. Finally: I am in a corp but that does not make me think that the death penalty is just right.
Apologies I worded that lot a bit harshly. Bad habit of mine. Sorry about that. Actually I do sort of see your point about the penalty perhaps being too harsh.......but then again its completely circumstantial. The choice is always entirely up to the player. Losing that BS may well be costly but how costly it is depends on how quickly a player can make money. You dont have to grind level 3 missions. Surely there are other ways of making money? Thats up to you to find out I suppose. I guess this is why so many people spend years playing the game and yet still find themselves continually learning new things. |
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Originally posted by Yamota Yeah excactly. In Eve it is like that but it is not clearly visible. One could assume that PvP would mean ships vs ships, duking it out. However as you say ISK is like the HPs for PvP and how to get ISK requires skills that are far different from your traditional PvP game. That could be a good tip for new players. PvP is not all about combat but also about the ability to gain ISK and best way to gain cash in this game seems to have little to do with PvP combat. It seems to do alot more with buying low and selling high, manufacturing, mining etc. So I guess the question is then, can you get a steady income in Eve by doing nothing but combat? Level 3 missions gave me maybe 20 M/hour and I would consider that quite low. Tried 0.0 ratting and it gave me maybe 50 M/hour, still quite low. However I could not get alot of experience there due to PC pirates. Will try again, now that I am in 0.0 corp, to see if you can get good enough ISK income to get valuable PvP experience.
I think you're on the right track there. Rather than complaining you are being positive and thinking proactively. You are looking at all the different facets of the game and the effects all those things have on the encounters between players. You're seeing that PvP in EVE is more than just ships fighting each other. Damn you're making me think about giving the game another try myself now. Hmmm......I shall resist......for now. |
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Originally posted by Yamota Well the problem is that I like to do PvP and to get good in PvP you need to engage in it, alot, and I simply cannot afford that so I have very little PvP experience as a result. But I am starting to understand that PvP in Eve is not only about PvP but rather that you need a set of skills beside flying your ship to be successful because when all is said and done you need experience to be good at anything and PvP experience means you will die alot, when you are inexperienced, and I do not have the ISK to support that (except flying around in a T1 frigate which I dont find particulary fun). So Eve is not a pure PvP game and would probably explain why I could not ever get into it even though PvP is what I like to do most in MMORPGs and hence why Eve is not my cup of tea.
It took you 6 years to reach this conclusion? Thats impressive. |
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Originally posted by Yamota What is it I dont have a clue of? That most people are in high sec space? That death penalty in Eve is high (basically full loot type system) and that is the reason why most people are in high sec space? That many people that do engage in PvP are flying cheap ships even though they have the skills for more expensive ones? That the people that do have the money to lose expensive ships are flying around in ones and mopping the floor with others who do not (or do not have friends that are flying around in expensive ships)? Please enlighten me what I have no clue about. I have been playing Eve on and of since the release in 2003 and even though I dont know many details, such as how to get rich and what not, the basic concept of the game has been the same.
As you have said multiple times yourself, a small minority of players are able to acumulate a large amount of cash in the game. So what are the chances of you encountering those few people in the games universe? According to you most people are not able to make as much money.......so it stands to reason that most of the people you encounter in the game will be flying cheaper ships just like yourself.......so whats the problem? According to you the poor players vastly outnumber the rich players anway as only "a select few" can become rich.......which is bollocks by the way but I'm just going along with your twisted viewpoint. Basicly your complaint is that people who have lots of time to devote to the game have the opportunity to become richer and have access to bigger and better ships. Your complaint is that this is unfair. You believe that you should be able to play the game for a few hours and yet have access to everything that a player who has dedicated lots of time to the game has. Well THAT would be massively unfair. So what do you want exactly? Do you want the ability to acquire money to be removed from the game? Should everyone be given 1 type of ship to "make it fair"? How would you suggest that players gain access to bigger and better ships? Even if you do remove money from the game, there still has to be something that determines when or how people gain more powerful ships? So what then? Make each sector only allow certain ship types? In other words remove player freedom simply to please people who cant handle losing some pixels? Do you want the death penalty to be removed so when your ship blows up it magically reappears at a station? Do you want the game to be dumbed down and simplified just so that people like yourself who dont have much spare time can hop into the game and get a false sense of satisfaction at blowing up players without there being any risk to yourself? EvE is one of the few MMOs on the market where players have to take a risk when engaging other players in PvP. When you fly out into deep space you never know what you are going to be up against. You might encounter a lone player in a cheap ship who is easy pickings.......or you might encounter a fleet of battleships that could blow you to bits in a few moments. How you deal with that is entirely up to you. You can stay and fight......or you can try and escape......or you can call on the assistance of team mates......or you can do any number of other things. Everyone is free to choose whatever course of action they like to deal with any situation. You can even take out those big bad nasty ships if you are sensible and co-ordinate your actions with others. I bet you just play the game solo all the time right? This level of freedom in an MMO is a rare thing. You however dont like it. You view it all as "me vs each other individual" like most solo-centric games. You think you cant achieve anything in the game because there are big bad meanies with lots of money who will ruin your fun with their big ships.......and yet its not simply "you vs everyone else". You have the freedom to use your brain to deal with any situation and yet your are too lazy to take action. Why cant you do what other players do and join a corporation? Its an MMO for god sake! I bet you fly around on your own in deep space and then get annoyed because a player in a better ship blows you up. You want everyone to be on equal terms regardless of how much time they invest in the game? Well its never going to happen. There are however LOTS of MMOs available that have risk free PvP where zero effort is required. Why dont you just play one of those and stop complaining about a game where player decisions actually matter? EvE is an MMO where a heavy time investment is required. However if you dont have much time to spare you can still survive in the game if you are careful, make the right decisions and work with others. However dont expect special treatment just because your time is limited. There are plenty of people playing EvE that dont have much time to commit to it just like yourself. Complaining that its unfair is just daft and pointless. Gdemami is correct. If you want PvP to be fair and equal regardless of how much time or effort you put into the game then EvE simply isnt the game for you. |
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How could anyone choose the themepark over the sandbox?
The Pub at MMORPG.COM « General Discussion 11/22/09 1:02:02 PM
Originally posted by Scottc
Name a single decent sandbox MMO that allows me to do anything I want and I will happily go and play it. So far I havent seen any that I want to play. Take Ryzom for example. Thats considered to be a sandbox game. It doesnt force you down a particular route and yet I found it completely boring. It was the same as any themepark game except all the text files (aka quests) are removed. A 3d landscape littered with mobs and harvest nodes just like any other mmo. Go anywhere and do anything. Great so what are my choices? Kill mobs. Harvest stuff. Make stuff. Kill players. Chat to people.....basicly the same repetitive stuff I would be doing in any other MMO. What other sandbox games are there? Eve. Only parts of that game have sandbox qualities. Most of it is static and unchangeable by the players. Wurm Online. I havent played it. It looks like it offers plenty of freedom......but it also looks outdated and......very very quiet and uneventful. Darkfall. Lots of naked immortal people running around killing each other for no particular reason. Build some structures. Destroy someone elses structures........but why? Second Life. This is basicly the best sandbox game available. Its sandbox qualities are so good that it isnt even a game. Players can do and make anything they like, and yet because the devs dont have any rules or structure for the gameworld then you end up with everyone literally doing anything and everything. Its a giant mess basicly. I'm not interested in either of those games. So what else is there? There simply isnt a decent selection of online games that allows the players to effect each other and the game world in any particularly meaningful way. There are however a lot of limited themepark games to choose from......but then thats hardly surprising because games developers have experience at making hand crafted single player games and thats all most mmos are. They're just low quality single player games placed on a server and opened up for everyone to play at the same time. You talk about sandbox games as though there are lots of them and all of them are really good games that offer endless variety. There arent. If sandbox games were so brilliant then everyone would be playing them. You're basicly comparing games which dont exist (ie great sandbox games which offer endless player freedom and world changing capabilities) to games which do exist. Start this thread up again in 10 or 20 years when online games have started taking full advantage of the internet. |
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Why is everyone so convinced that WoW has tons of content?
General Discussion « World of Warcraft 11/21/09 12:30:36 PM
Originally posted by Scottc
Yeah but you could apply that to every MMO because they're all basicly the same old bollocks. In MMO's "lots of content" translates into "lots of text files to read".......and WoW is indeed jam-packed with a gazillion text files......which is why WoW is generally considered to have lots of "content". You're right with the quantity vs quality comment........but again its the same for all MMOs and not just WoW. They all focus on quantity over quality because (a) its easier and cheaper to just copy & paste mobs all over a 3d landscape and then get someone to type up shit loads of text files as a substitute for gameplay, (b) they know that MMO players have low standards and dont expect variety and (c) they want your money each month so they want to make you stay in the same place doing the same thing over and over for as long as possible. You're complaining that WoW is repetitive? Are you new to MMOs? If you want a game that places quality before quantity then you wont find that in any MMO. You're better off playing single player games.......and even then you will have to fish around. |
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Will this be the game the puts RP back in MMO's
General Discussion « Star Wars: The Old Republic 11/18/09 10:34:25 PM
Well I just started playing Dragon Age (literally just started it) and had my first npc conversation in the dwarf city. I found it quite fascinating actually as there was no obvious good or bad route to take and I could immediately see how my decisions will have an impact on what happens later. It actually made me think quite carefully which is something I havent had to do in a computer game for a long time. It also really put me in the mindset of playing as a dwarf bound by the stubborn and very harsh rules of honour and pride that they all live by in that game. So it made me wonder what the new Star Wars game might be like. If the npc interactions are anything like what I have witnessed in Dragon Age then I think I may very well quite enjoy the game. However I'm not really sure if the game will enhance roleplaying any more than any other mmo. To be honest I dont really care as I dont play online games to roleplay with people......at least not the kind of lame roleplaying that happens in mmos anyway. From experience I have found trying to do so to be a complete waste of time......especially in a game that already has a story written into it. It always struck me as completely pointless trying to make up a pretend story that can never actually happen when you are playing a game which IS an interactive story which CAN happen. In SWTOR (and other mmos for that matter) the roleplaying takes place between me (the player) and the npcs. The other players are not characters integral to the story. If anything most of them will simply be a nuisance that only serve to ruin immersion as they fill the chat channel with idiotic nonsense. "Hey dude wanna group with me? What level are you? I've got another bounty hunter alt. Shall I get him and we can do this quest together?". Actually I'm casting what most players type in a positive light there as most of the stuff I see in chat channels is a lot more brainless than that. So yeah....ermm.....most people in mmos suck which is why I ignore most of them. So why do I even play mmos? Well after playing Dragon Age I cant think of many good reasons actually. Most mmos are solo friendly so I dont need other people and yet they are fairly low quality games that charge me money every month to play each one. I suppose I am drawn to the feeling of being part of an online world and in most of them I can compete with other players if I choose to. Occasionly I do also randomly come across a player who says something amusing or in character and I might end up grouping with them for a while......although most of the time they are at different stages in the rigid mmo story so our paths simply dont coincide......and having to stop and compare quests with each other just ruins the experience for me anyway. So will SWTOR bring roleplaying back to mmos? I dont know and I dont really care. I will be too busy "roleplaying" with the npcs. The only kind of mmo I would ever be interested in trying to roleplay with other people in would be a true sandbox game where I could back up my roleplaying with my actions and do things that change and shape the game world. There arent any good games of that type that I particularly want to play and all the other mmos are extremely shitty & limited story games with optional co-op mode attached. SWTOR at least looks like it will be able to provide a compelling story that I can influence (unlike all the other mmos) and yet I will also have the option of playing with others if I feel like it. Roleplaying with npcs is pretty much the only kind of roleplaying I look for in a computer game though.......although if the games story encourages people to talk in character then thats certainly not a bad thing. I leave roleplaying to actual roleplaying games though.......although I havent played one of those for ages. |
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