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All Posts by tixylix

All Posts by tixylix

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Originally posted by Dakeru
Originally posted by tixylix


I have to say it looks more exciting than any other MMO I've seen in years,

Trailers always look good. That's what they are supposed to do.

I haven't seen a trailer that has impressed me in years either.. 


Any ways, that isn't the video the subject is talking about.

I have to say it looks more exciting than any other MMO I've seen in years, at least if that is an open world. Not sure if the stuff in the background is in the skybox (thus killing it from bring open world) or if they're just using DoF effects and the LoD is making it look lower quality. 


That RI Governor was an idiot, instead of helping them to find funding to get the game, he just totally screwed over everyone. They released a game, they proven they can at least do that, it turned out to be a well put together one, it just got overlooked because it was a little bland. Now all that has gone to waste, they probably only needed another year to get the thing into beta so they could charge for pre orders or something. 

SOE could have even probably picked it up for free and just funded the rest of development or something. I guess no one wanted to touch it though after the corrupt RI government got involved and made it look all shady and a lost cause.


It cost them hundreds of thousands to just maintain it.... just keeps on draining money lol.

Ironically I'd still put KOTOR and TES on there...
Nothing, they're still in denial.
I went to give it another try but they don't accept paypal so didn't bother. I remember they were so shady when the game launched so I'm not entrusting my money with them without the protection of paypal.

It is always the way, something is challenging, people complain on the forums, they make it easier and those people leave any ways. In my case I love the challenge, I love achieving something that puts me in an exclusive club. My heart pumps when I know there is risk/reward and knowing I could lose, that is where excitement comes in. There is nothing fun about going around tanking every mob in the game and just mindlessly killing everything in sight to level up, that is just called a grind. The fun is having to work with other players to complete something that is hard, knowing that you might not be able to even do it with the group you have. I remember even with the early days of WoW, dungeons used to be hard and quite often we would fail because the group would fall apart. Now though you just run through it in 10 mins with no challenge and it is just boring, people just grind them for the loot only now.

Playing Operation Breakout on CS:GO, I had a mission where I had to join a death match server and grind away 30 kills with a certain gun. That was just a boring grind and it wasn't fun, yet I bet it is the exact thing people want because they just want to rush to the reward. I have another mission that I have yet to complete which is winning in competitive mode on a certain map. That has been much more exciting, there is something really on the line there, there is no guarantee that I'll ever complete it as I can fail unlike the last mission. I've tried it 3 times now and I've failed each time, that is up to 90 mins a pop. It is fun, it came down to the wire the last time I tried, I was the last man alive and my heart was pounding and my hands were shaking so badly. I lost and felt devastated, but  if I succeeded I would have had such a high. 

Those extreme emotions are things I experienced in early MMOs, ones which were challenging. I don't get that any more, MMOs are made too easy or have been dumbed down over time. You end up going through the content and you just feel nothing but boredom, everything is now a means to an end, when you get to the end you quit the game. I never used to play old MMOs to get to the end, in fact I probably never got to what you could call the end on any of them. I used to play to have fun, to feel those wild swings in emotions. Now though everything is made so everyone can experience it, it is basically just a checklist of easy content that has been designed with one thing in mind and that is levelling up your character and doing it FAST and EASY.

This is something that has always pissed me off and the reason why I ended up quitting so many MMOs in the past. I remember SWG starting off as being a hard and harsh game, every patch seemed to be doing something to make it easier though. It got to the point where we had two major game changes in an effort to make it super easy and dumb. It made no sense to me as the skill box system is far more intuitive than the talent tree system, it offered far more variety as well. I just thought it was funny because Jedi used to have harsh death penalties to keep them in line as they were meant to be rare and over powered. People though always claimed server instability killed them and whined on until they lessened the Death Penalty to basically nothing... like funny that, always someone else's fault but yours. When I died all fully geared back when Dayz came out and was a challenging game, I didn't whine on about it being the servers fault and wanting them to take the death penalty away, I just fucking got over it and started again...


Developers have become like mini celebs now though, they've all gained big egos now that fans are all communicating with them through social media and forums etc. So developers want their content to be played by everyone, they're making content that satisfies their own ego rather than what is good for the game. I just cringe every time I hear a developer saying "we spend this amount of time making whatever and only 2% of people saw it" and using it as an excuse to why they've made something easier or taken it out of the game. Like ok so just make a boring corridor instead then, make sure everything we see is exactly what everyone else is seeing. I don't get that argument, what makes open world games fun is discovering things other people haven't seen, if we're all sent down the same path each time then it isn't a world any more, besides it makes replayability boring.


I'm just so tired of all these excuses around something being challenging to why people are leaving their game. Dumbing down a game  has never made it more popular or kept players on, it just satisfies the short term and harms the long term.

I'll pass just because it is like every other WoW clone out there, even though TES was a train wreck, at least it offered something slightly different. 
Always the way, something is hard, people whine on forums, the game gets dumbed down and people quit any ways because difficulty isn't why they quit, the game has deeper issues but the devs are too blind to see. 
Originally posted by Foobarx

And yet... you left them all... funny how things work out in the end.


Yeah but you cannot play a game forever without being bored, even if you did love it. There are exceptions, Counter Strike is a game I've played for 14 years now, I've never gotten bored of it, that is a dynamic skill based PVP FPS. When playing an MMORPG, the exploration and content is what makes it, you cannot do those things forever. 

Also though...

- EQ - PoP and Luclin ruined it and I quit

- SWG - many things ruined it but Jedi, The CU and the NGE were the main things.

- EQ2- launch ruined it lol..

- PS - SOE just ditching it and leaving it to die..

- WoW - TBC and flying mounts ruined it for me, but now it has so much wrong with it, just become fan service really. 

- EVE Online - The Only MMO out there that has been properly run, I just became bored of it after Capital Ships became so popular. 



EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, Planetside, EVE Online and World of Warcraft.

I liked that period of time for MMOs because they were all highly different and innovative. There was no set standard back then, they all had very different UIs, very different ways of playing and they're all far more ambitious than any "MMO" released today. They released in a time where they were trying to be giant open seamless worlds, that was the goal to strive for. I thought back 10+ years ago that by now we'd have the hardware to make it a proper reality without any lag and we'd have massive worlds with seamless player cities. Instead we went the other way for some reason and now we just have hub worlds and instances... just really weird to me. 

Back then you used to group, even in WoW if you didn't have a group, you'd be missing out on a lot of content in the world. Now if you play MMOs there is no reason to ever play with any one other than for dungeons, even that has been watered down to this dungeon finder tool where people don't communicate with each other, they might as well all be A.I.

There used to be risk/reward, you used to have a death penalty and have down time, even in Vanilla WoW you'd have lots of downtime. I used to be scared to explore the world, constantly looking over my shoulder and having to manage aggro. Now though you can tank 10 mobs at once and the grind has really become a BORING grind because there is no challenge, there is no risk and tbh just give me all the rewards now and don't make me play any of it, just a time waste now, not a game when you cannot ever lose. 

EQ2 I didn't list as it wasn't a good MMO, it was quite broken, felt about 50% done but SOE did their usual of releasing a game too early, something they still haven't learnt with Planetside 2 which is now dead as a result. However EQ2 in beta was an amazing experience, those first 20 levels were just some of the most memorable in any MMO to date. Now back in 2004 the graphics were just mind blowing and it shows how little the genre has evolved when technically it looks good today, just artistically it looks bland and bad in a few spots like the character models. 

However it really felt like a big leap forward, it felt so immersive, everything was voice acted, it looked as good as a PC Single Player game, even better than anything on consoles by miles. The boat tutorial at the very start just felt new, something you never saw before in an MMO and  EVERYTHING in the game required a group. I remember getting bad groups and losing so much XP that I had to dedicate the next night to just claiming that back. There was so much risk involved that it made every encounter so much fun, getting that perfect group and pushing through content just felt so rewarding. You didn't do things to level up, quests were actually fun and you did them to experience the game, not just to be a means to an end. 

All that is dead now though, even though EQ2 launched in such a sorry state, even that got more right than any "MMO" released today. What I really do not understand either is when you have a SP game that was turned into an MMO like TESO and all they've done is made a SP game, only worse. They might as well have just made TES6 and put coop into it, would have been a better experience. 

There isn't even any open world PVP any more, something that WoW done best of any MMO. It wasn't because Blizzard put any mechanics into it, that is exactly why it worked so well, they just left it and left it be dynamic and up to the players. There would be natural meeting points like TM vs SS but also you'd have groups of high level players protecting lower level zones and massive city raids on the weekends. You could end go and wipe out enemy NPC quest givers and impact peoples play that way. It was so amazing, then enter BGs anywhere came along and ruined that, the final nail in the coffin was flying mounts.

Name an MMO with world PVP today? TESO doesn't have it, in fact you cannot even see enemy factions in the world. GW2 didn't have it, SWTOR barely even had a world to speak of and I dunno I just cannot think of one. When I think of WoW's Vanilla world, I think of seamless zone transitions, having to take griffins and boat rides in real time and it all just felt so natural. Even the dungeons took up real world space, they would be this portal to nowhere like they are in most MMOs. That sense of location is important, it is something SWG had and even EQ had where you'd remember locations in the world, it made them way more special than just remembering a level.


SWTOR was a very frustrating game to me because when it launched it got almost everything right. The combat (despite the ability delay) was just amazing, probably the best since WoW and I loved how long PVP fights took. The combat speed reminded me more of SWG because I remember getting into some duels that lasted 10 mins, it wasn't over in seconds and so fights just felt really epic to me. The questing content while it was standard MMO stuff, at least it had something a bit more to it. The graphics were all very nice, the UI was great, the animations were good and more important than any thing else, it had a setting I could care about.

Sadly with SWTOR though, they forgot about the world...... NPCs always stood in one spot, they had no voice over outside of cut scenes, not even clicking on them would start one like it does in WoW, there was no atmospheric sound, no day/night, no weather... it just all felt static. 

Then the biggest crime they did was Fleet Stations, what was the point in having them? Everything they did could have been built into the cities to give them life; in fact that is exactly how they functioned in early beta apparently, it wasn't until later that they were added in. You can tell because they felt so tacked on, they broken the game and made travelling between planet to planet feel cumbersome by adding that little extra step. 

It got to the point where people just stood inside the Fleets and no one was in the world. You had amazing cities like Anchor Head on Tatooine, that was a fully 3D city, you could run on the roof tops and it felt like a natural hub. Instead that stood dead while everyone was out of the world on these boring generic stations which looked exactly the same on both sides.

It was so frustrating that Bioware could get so close to making a good MMO at last, then they fuck it all up with the shoddy lack of world design. The game even have challenge, there was lots of grouped content in the world and they gave you plenty of reasons to group up with people.... that is until the game died within a month of launch. I'll always put that down to there being no world, people stay when it feels real and organic, people don't stay when it feels like a game, why sub to that? It ruins your character as well, instancing everything, you do not feel special any more. When a world feels like a world, you feel like your character has a sense of place, you gain pride in them.

The funny thing is, Bioware made the best bit of open world content I've played in years. It wasn't even set out to be that way, probably why it played so well because it was so organic and left alone, they didn't try to make things fair at all. There was a Balloon ride of Tatooine which took you to a Holocron that everyone wants to collect to build up to a reward. However it was like a 30 min wait and being on it took a long time too, so you had to look out for the enemy while you waited for the balloon. It just ended up with so many situations where you just missed it because you were fighting or where you could troll people; you'd pretend to call a truce so you could both ride on the Balloon, wait until the very end and then force push them off.... just so funny. I haven't played in years, but I bet they've ruined that whole experience now and made the Balloon ride take 20 seconds or gotten rid of it altogether. 



Frustration though sums up my feelings of the genre, I don't see it getting any better either. We have new powerful consoles now, all future MMOs will be made for them and that means the genre will turn into a bunch of Destiny type games. They aren't MMOs, they're just online hub games that have existed online since Phantasy Star Online, for some reason though people want to class them as MMOs, just they Diablo and Guild Wars now get called MMOs...

It is a shame but the MMO is dead, there will never been another one again, by that I mean open world and striving to be seamless, at the very least striving to make a world. I've been waiting for almost 10 years to have another one, it hasn't come and now so many companies have been burnt from trying to make them and failing, we wont get any more. 

I can bet the next 10 years are all hub based games.

SWTOR was already dead just after Christmas, there was a giant post on the forums at the start of Jan to merge the servers. It had a MASSIVE drop off and TES is the same....


Something major needs to change in the MMO genre, they cannot just keep making WoW clones. SWTOR and TES are both games which should have stayed true to what they were, instead they butchered what made them good in place of WoW mechanics. 


Despite the ability delay though, SWTOR had the best combat in the genre since WoW, the first game to really nail it, a shame 1.2 ruined it. 

I miss the days of Vanilla WoW or even SWTOR, where I'd have 40 odd skills all organised the way I like and managing them all.

I found the combat to be rather clunky and unsatisfying. 


I wanna see an MMO with Mount and Blade like combat.

What happens when you make a linear theme park MMO where questing is a means to an end. 

It completely stops fun and innovation in a genre, they become stagnant as this massive ego drive group of players wants every game to play the same way or they hate it. I'm not a fan of Blizzard, I never have been, I find each of their games to be so clinical, by the numbers and based on old mechanics. They don't drive any genre forward, they just recreate old ideas, Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 were games I was looking forward to, they're really souless games and are no different from their last ones. We've had games like SupCom and CoH go in such interesting directions in 06/7 and now Blizzard have taken it back to the gameplay of the 90s.

The best examples I can give on what esports does is you have destruction in BFBC2, it wouldn't be there in an esports game. It is too dynamic, creates too many variables and people would complain too much that it isn't fair. Physics in genre wouldn't be in an esports game because again it is too dynamic, too much fun. World PVP doesn't happen in an esports game for that reason as well, just too dynamic, people just complain all the time. 

This is why the SWG Skillbox system would never happen today, people just go on about balance more than ever before now. We've had so many MMOs with boring class systems like SWTOR or WAR where they both used this odd mirror'd archetype system to try and keep perfect balance. 

You do not have fun quests any more, quests are now just a means to an end and each faction/side has to have the exact same layout or people complain one side has an advantage. Quests are there to just blast through now and everything has become about throwing numbers at your screen and having icons to show you where to go. We might as well just be playing UIs these days, because people cover their game so much in the UI, that the graphics have become hidden. Probably why graphically the genre has stayed the same for 10 years, there haven't been any advancements and now MMOs look like high res PS2 games and not modern at all. 

Now we just from quest hub to quest hub, we do not have fun with quests, people complain about them so much, yet when we have fun Single Player like quests, people complain that it is taking too long to get through the game. Just this whole esports crowd that has flooded the genre, all they're interested in is their epeen and not experiencing the game.


Now look at the genre, what do we have? All I see is WoW in every MMO. No world any more, group finder tools, stats thrown at you all the time, so simplified and condensed down to keep perfect balance, instant travel everywhere, going from hub to hub to hub, boring by the numbers quests that are dotted around to keep you moving and always levelling so fast! No world PVP any more, no point to the world in general, they're all so lifeless and boring, everyone is in a BG now or an instance. Worst of all they all have the same art style because esports people need to have 240FPS or whatever, so now we just have hundreds of games that look like WoW, the latest one being Wildstar, which looks like its twin. 


Nothing pissed me off more when we had one of the best RPG genres, one that was like the best MMO you've ever played but it just happened to be a SP game, then they fucked it all up, turned it into a WoW style MMO and ruined everything that was good about TES in the first place. Nothing (apart from SWTOR) was more insulting to me than what they did with TESO. They went from having an amazing dynamic sandbox world of each TES games to this very linear hub based PoS that is TESO. The funny thing is. TESO is every bit of a SP game as TES, there is no reason it even needed to exist in the MMO genre..

I love PVP as much as any one, but I just don't give a shit about how much damage I've done, I just play for fun and let my skill and knowledge of the game beat my opponents. If I lose I lose, I don't start whining that a game is not perfectly balanced, I do not request for a game to be dumbed down so much it is reduced to a mindless pile of shit that most MMOs are today. This epeen crap is what turned SWG from one of the most amazing and open ended MMOs I've ever played, to a poor WOW clone that killed off every last bit of potential that game once had.

In my mind EQ2 was the last true MMO, the one that strived for immersion, grouping and having fun with quests and not just levelling as fast as possible. Yes that game had a shit ton of problems and failed for a lot of reasons, but it was the last innocent MMO, before WoW came and ruined the genre. 

I cannot blame WoW for that, it was an amazing MMO back in the day and I loved it, I just blame the players that came with Blizzard and I blame the developers for just making the soulless boring clones.



Cause you pay for a subscription... simples.
Hate how online has gone backwards, used to have none of this shit, I mean online gaming is about playing with people from all over the world.

The reason that kickstarter failed is because it was Brad and he lost his rep with Vanguard. All these other MMOs that are trying it are indie stuff and have real shit graphics and are really hard to care about as a result. 


EQ for its day had amazing graphics and people were excited to explore that world as a result. We need a AAA developer to bring us this experience again, sadly that wont ever happen...

I know it gets a lot of stick because it tends to compromise the gameplay as developers base everything around getting you to spend money. However it really does depend on the developer and devs like Valve just get it so spot on, they involve the community who create content, earn money and Valve takes a cut on the side. All the core gameplay elements are free, only cosmetic stuff is sold and that is fine. 

SWG is a game where F2P would destroy the economy in theory, with SOE in charge back in those days, they would have made that game even worse than what they did over the years. I remember TCG coming out and all the good new items they spent ages on the art with were only purchasable through getting those card packs. They ignored crafters for the most part, all the stuff you wanted to actually have was all through that stuff. If done right in F2P they could simply sell schematics and crafters would still have their roll in crafting, rather than giving the item outright. 


I bought FF14 on the PS4 (mainly because there is nothing else to play on it) and my month is now up as of today, I realised I've only played it 3 times since I got it. I'm either busy, not in the mood or there are so many other games that my gaming time is taken up. I realised that I'm not under 16 any more, I have a job, I can afford games and I'm not just stuck with one for months on end. I would love to return to FF14 once or twice a month, that does me just fine, but I cannot justify having to pay a subscription for what feels like every time I want to play the game. It just creates a barrier to entry for me and I end up just never bothering to play as I have to pay to get back into the game. 


I really think F2P is the future, it takes down that barrier to entry which subscription games create. I don't mind there being a subscription offering but I feel that to get me as a player, I don't want a subscription, I feel ripped off paying one to only play a few times a month. I'm quite happy playing an MMO like that, I'm not in any rush to get to end level, every single MMO I've played but one, I've never gotten to end level.

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