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All Posts by tixylix

All Posts by tixylix

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MMOs are dead, they've been replaced with "the service" which is just continued online support for standard multiplayer games. Every online game has RPG features, a hub, DLC and constant updates, maybe even a subscription service.

The likes of Destiny are you "MMOs" now, even though they existed 10+ years ago with the likes of Phantasy Star Online and Guild Wars and no one called them MMOs back then. 

The world is dead, even the likes of WoW have gotten rid of the world, all just standing in a hub and instant traveling everywhere. It is clear developers have blamed the world for why their MMOs failed, it is weird though since the whole genre was based upon having one. WoWs success was built upon travelling, those amazing zone transitions and the amazing world PVP it once had back in Vanilla. 

 

All that is lost, the genre is dead and no more are coming. 

It isn't an Elder Scrolls game, that is my problem... like there is no open sandbox world, it is totally linear and all the quests are just boring MMO quests. 
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Sovrath

 

This happened in Lord of the Rings Online. Turbine looked at their info and came to the conclusion that the majority of their players want the glowy "you should go here" markers on the map.

Of course people argued against it and those that were for it kept saying "just don't use it" all the while not realizing that the quest text no longer gave enough info for it to really be an option.

Exactly. When they made the more interactive and descriptive maps, they changed how they created the quest text. Whether intentional or not, they shifted to a reliance on maps and markers over time, making it so that those who didn't want to use the map no longer really had that option. 

 

People say you can just ignore them, but you cannot as they change the whole game design. Also though there is just something nice knowing you're all in the same boat, not having markers telling you where do go all the time means you progress more slowly. Other people will be using maps and markers and will level faster, it means you're often left behind by your friends who cannot resist. Then you have the fact that it makes the community more social, people are asking more questions and more willing to group, it gives the world a sense of danger and exploration, you give people directions instead of just giving them a location name.

It isn't as simple as ignoring them and you cannot say the internet means there are no mysteries any more. There is several months of lag before everything comes common knowledge and there are guides everywhere. Then each time you come up with new content, you'll have people working it out, so as long as you keep making new content and changing the world up, you'll have mysteries in the game.

 

You cannot compare the market to what it was when they started dumbing all the games down to what they are today. Everything has changed now, the mainstream is going away, AAA games are doing badly and the indie games have risen up. Wr have this desire for hard games now, we've had so many years of hand holding that players desire it again. We've got hits like Dark Souls which are selling millions and proving that..

Playing Dayz back in the day, you started off with no map and I never actually found one for months. I built up this mental image of the world I was playing in and I remembered how to get around by using the position of the sun or remembering landmarks. I remember EverQuest back in the day and I don't remember ever having a map, it made the world far more scary and immersive to explore. Again with Dark Souls, there isn't a map and so I build the world up in my head, I don't know what is around the corner and I have to remember where to go if I die. 

There is just something so amazing when you don't have a map or a mini map, where you don't quite know where to go and have to work it out for yourselves and remember. You cannot just just see an icon of where you are and an icon of where to go, you cannot see where you'll be safe or what is potentially around the corner. 

For me having a map is like watching a Movie based on a book, where you're given everything visually and there is no room for your imagination. Where as not having a Map is like reading the book, where you're having the world described to you and you mentally build an image of it in your head. 

What I really love as well is when quests were a new thing in MMOs, you had WoW which gave you a waypoint and it just made them a boring grind from 1 - 60. Where as EQ2 didn't give you that help, you had to read the quest text and work it all out for yourself. It made the quests feel like fun content, like puzzles and not just there to get through as quick as possible. It had so many amazing quests which really made you think and I loved the ones like the Froglok unlock quests. Where as now in an MMO, they've become just a check list and you don't have to think throughout the whole thing, even combat has become really easy. When I played EQ2 in beta you had to group, you had to be scared of what was around because you could get owned, now though you can tank 10 mobs at once, it is so boring and the challenge has gone.

Does any one remember how you use to have to talk to NPCs in EverQuest? It wasn't just clicking on them and accepting a quest. I would love this to come back again, where you feel like you're naturally interacting with NPCs, where you can say what you want and have key words trigger a reaction. Not like frigging what Bioware have done where you have to pick a canned reaction, like why can't I have certain trigger worlds that I can out in my own sentence like EverQuest?

Games like Dark Souls and BloodBorne have proved that people want these experience, I hope we get them in MMO form.

 

 

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by JudgeUK

The game forum has lit up with the Heavensward CE pricing strategy across different regions.

CE price for the US = $129.99

https://store.na.square-enix.com/final-fantasy-xiv

CE price for the UK = £129.99

https://store.eu.square-enix.com/emea_uk/games/pc/FINAL-FANTASY-XIV-Heavensward-Collector-s-Edition.php

So according to SE the new dollar to pound rate is 1=1

But of course in the real world it isn't. Converting the UK price back to dollars it's around $194

Good job I'm not a "must have CE" fan of the game :-)

 

You are making a comparison in a very flawed way. Prices of goods in different countries are derived in different ways. 

 

With the way the Pound is going it'll be 1:1 soon lol.

I'm trying again because apparently it's the second most popular sub based MMO out there. I just don't get it though, there is no Final Fantasy like story, no voice acting and the world design is super small and enclosed. All I've done so far is kill 10 rats and fetch quests, they're so boring and like going back to 2004 when quests were new and did nothing more than that.

I got bored of this shit over 10 years ago now, why hasn't this game evolved in any way? Any ways, I haven't even reached level 10 I am that bored, it doesn't even feel like a Final Fantasy game, where is the main story people go on about? It has been non existent so far. 

Who the hell would pay £130 for a game? You just get a load of crap you'll never bother with. 
They have been for the past 10 years.
What a crap name

Everything I read makes sense and I agree with it, but I have to ask the question "what went wrong at SOE then?" because to me SOE haven't been following what you've just said Dave. 

 

Here seems to be SOE's cycle

 

1. Talk about how you're going to spend the time getting it right and listening to the community. 

2. Rush the product out to launch even though the core just isn't there.

3. The player base leaves and the game never recovers.

 

Rinse and repeat. 

 

Or in the case of the SOE games I once loved (EQ, EQ2, SWG and PS)

 

1. Rush the product out with the core game being great

2. Never realising the full potential so the player base slowly falls off

3. Make stupid changes that ultimately kill the game

 

 

 

What I don't get with SOE is why the post launch content is so bad, it all feels very rushed. Why is every new dungeon three randomly generated NPCs standing in an empty space where you've just copied and pasted a few items about the place? Why is every new bit of content so sparse? It is never dense and full of quality, I mean most of the time you forget the flora... 

Looking at an SOE expansion and comparing it to a Blizzard expansion, it is night and day. Tbh that isn't about budget because once upon a time SOE had the budget to compete and they still didn't put that money into quality content. 

 

Everything SOE has done lately has been a failure and I've played Landmark.. it is shit. No one I know likes it, every streamer on Youtube played it a few times and dropped it, none of those videos even got many views. The core isn't there and Landmark needs a major overhual... tbh I'd just scrap it, but I would have done the same with H1Z1 and it is clear the people over at SOE don't care about quality. 

I don't want to offend people, but when someone with the budget of SOE has worse level design than what I can do on UE4 in a day... I find that scary. Seriously walking into buildings in H1Z1, it is like walking into an N64 game, square rooms where everything is made out of in engine brushes... it is sad. 

 

 

It is weird looking at the genre on the whole though because for the past 10 years MMOs haven't been made by people who love the genre. They've been made by people who want to make WoW 2 and they've all failed, I haven't played a single one for more than a few days. All I see now is games like Destiny taking over the MMO reigns, they aren't MMOs but for some reason people don't care about that. That and delusional twats making their lackluster ego titles like Richard Garriott who should not be getting funded any more, he is like Peter Molyneux or Brad Mcquaid... stop giving these people money!

 

+ One more thing.

The one thing I still don't get about EQ2 is why in beta the game had one server and each zone was cloned over and over again. Then after launch there were 40+ servers that spread the population too thin, it became impossible to find a group and so people left because of it.

The beta of that game was the most amazing experience I've ever had grouping in an MMO. You couldn't progress without a group but the player base was kept so together nicely that you always had people around you asking. It was much more fun grouping from 1 - 20 in EQ2 than it was soloing in WoW, yet post launch we never got that option because of the servers.

SOE always makes mistakes like these and is too slow to react or never admits they're wrong. 

Why weren't BFRs taken out straight away? Why didn't you just scrap them in testing?

Why didn't you listen to the problems of Planetside 2 in beta? Most of those problems still exist today. I don't understand how you created such giant bases, yet in reality they're tiny because they have next to no indoor plan.

There are so many examples like this through every SOE game. 

 

I still don't understand why EQ2's character models have never been changed, they've always been so ugly and off putting, yet no effort has been put into making them look good. 

The Richard Garriott  MMO looks like something from 2001, I'm talking about something the equivalent of what EQ was in it's day.... which was cutting edge.

Post WoW everyone started doing the cartoony style, that or we have Asian MMOs where they all look the same too. I'm bored of it all, even frigging EQ and EQ2 look and sound like WoW now, they've been dumbed down so much over the years that they ain't EQ any more. 

I loved the high/dark/medieval style, on the face of it you think it's just a simple high fantasy game but they were so dark when you got into them. Their worlds were scary to explore, they felt mysterious and no other MMO has that feeling of what EQ and EQ2 did. I'm counting EQ2 but only really the first 20 levels or so, after that you could tell the game was rushed out and so poor. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em6Rwh7fgcs

The original music in 2 especially was genius, now they've just copied WoW with the latest stuff, but back then it captured the feeling of the world so well. The music in that link is all high fantasy and nice, you think of The Enchanted Lands, but then it goes all sinister and dark. It just sums up the whole feeling of what EQ used to be and the worlds were harsh, you needed groups for everything in 2. The beta when they had one server was some of the best grouping I've ever experienced. WoW introduced the quest grind, but EQ2 introduced group questing that told stories, they weren't just there to level you up from 1 - 60. 

The original EQ got the world feeling right though, how it was all connected and it felt so seamless even though it wasn't. If they could have they would have built it like WoW, without loading between zones but they did the next best thing. You walked to the edge of a zone and it just popped up "loading" like what Half-Life does, but it keeps you in game and it starts you off exactly where you were. It never magically warped you somewhere, you felt like the whole world was connected. I loved exploring that world, it was so harsh, dark and all the starter areas gave a different non linear experience. 

 

Why can't we have an MMO that looks like this any more? Like no it all has to be cartoony and everyone has to have large shoulder pads. 

 

 

https://www.everquest.com/images/themes/base/media/wallpapers/1280/10.jpg

https://assets-cdn.soe.com/uploads/dcsclient/000/000/009/801.jpg?v=1.0

http://img.phombo.com/img1/photocombo/4138/The_Best_HD_HQ_Hi-Res_Wallpapers_Collection_-_Fantasy_Art_by_tonyx__1300_pictures-959.jpg_everquest_04_1280.jpg

 

 

 

I miss that style of fantasy and I miss harsh worlds which were hard and did punish you for failing. People get bored so easily today, like yeah because there is no challenge and you cannot experience any loss. Why aren't we constantly evolving our characters? Why can we hit a cap and then that is it? Why is loot forever? Surely it should degrade? It would give you reasons to go back and do content, if you don't like that... tough, an item should be rare, if you use it then you should be able to lose it. 

Dayz Mod back in 2012 used to be this harsh world, I'd spend so long getting great gear to just lose it. When you died that is it, you have to start over and it was always a fun experience starting fresh. Sometimes I'd not see gear for months, NVGs and ghillies were so rare for me and it was a world which made you scared but you still wanted to explore. 

Dayz gave me that feeling again, sadly though it all stepped away from that and turned into that stupid Epoch stuff and became a boring shooter. It had other flaws like the zombies were scary at first, but they were so bugged and useless in reality, you quickly learnt the tricks and ignored them. 

However for those few months back in 2012 I had that experience again and I loved it. 

 

I just want that again but in an MMO, no crappy indie MMOs with 15 year old graphics. 

Yes the uniqueness of you turning EQ into WoW and EQ2 into WoW and SWG into WoW...

The MMO space has died, it just doesn't exist any more and all we have now is online RPGs that call themselves an MMO. What was the genre born for? To make massive online worlds to explore and live in, what has the genre become? Small game levels, no persistence, very linear, instant travel everywhere and no worlds exist any more. 

No one wants to make an MMO any more because we had many years of people trying to copy WoW and failing. WoW is not a good MMO any more, I wouldn't even call it one any more, it is Guild Wars now, a hub game with instant travel everywhere. Stop trying to copy WoW, it is popular because it is Blizzard, if it was by any one else or done at another time, it would not have had the same success. 

You play all these "MMOs" and all you end up doing the same shit as always. You make a character, do 20 odd levels of what feels like an over easy tutorial and then you quest grind the rest of the way through. They keep saying they're adding story in and yet all you're ever doing is killing 10 rats or delivering something and having some dialogue inbetween.

I wanted TESO to be like the Single Player RPG, where you have this big open sandbox world with amazing quests that are all so fun and you do them because they're fun. I didn't want it to be this linear themepark where all the quests are killing 10 rats and collecting shit. You cannot even see the enemy factions, you have no freewill, you just follow a single path through the game and there aren't even alternative zones like what WoW had to make it feel less linear. 

The genre is dead, I thought while playing SWG when it came out that if that is what we had in 2003, by 2013 with the hardware getting better that these games would get even more ambitious.. they didn't and they died. With the massive console focus in upcoming "MMOs" the focus on fast gameplay with instant travel will only become more prevalent.

 

As for SOE/Daybreak... does any one care? They could go bust tomoz and it would have no impact.  They've made nothing of any worth in the last 10 years, their last game that felt AAA was EQ2 and that flopped because it felt like after level 20 that they rushed the game to launch. Planetside 2 was a huge disappointment, 90% of people quit within the first month and it only just became profitable a few months ago according to Smedley. H1Z1 is possibly the world game I've ever played from a studio that is meant to have talent, I seriously made better level design in my first ever map using UE4 and video tutorials. 

They've ran everything they ever made into the ground, why you get things like Project 1999 popping up. EQ2 was turned into WoW, even the music sounds like WoW now, it lost what made it unique and became a wannabe. Planetside was ignored and then ruined with BFRs, everyone quit and SOE failed to admit they were wrong and rollback. They did the same with SWG.... it is a common theme with them, they don't listen. DC Universe online could be completed in 2 days...

SOE/Daybreak suck and I wouldn't be surprised if they go away after the failure EQN will be. Like the EQ game no one wanted, all the people that will find that game fun don't even know what EQ is... name it something else at that point. If Landmark is any indication to go by, the combat will be so bad and... it is just mechanically poor. 

I was hoping SOE had the power to get rid of Smedley, but I guess not...

I want it to be everything that Landmark isn't.
Smedley is holding them back, he needs to admit he isn't the best person for the job any more. 
Tbh I just want them to make Project 1999 EverQuest, not this new bullshit Disney thing they're doing.
Why did they act like it was going away? It isn't hard to start a new site and have the same people make content for it. 

There was me thinking games are too dumbed down these days.. I guess not, I've just been struggling with them apparently. I'M TOO FUCKING STUPID FOR EA GAMES!

 

Yeah... that is why they don't sell.

They're all designed like Single Player games... that is why.
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