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All Posts by tixylix

All Posts by tixylix

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1173 posts found

The MMO has been in decline for a long time because they're not being made any more. 


The problem is in the days of EverQuest games were a lot cheaper to make. Lots of smaller studios were pumping out MMOs which were radically different there was something for everyone to enjoy. WoW came out, change the game and suddenly studios thought they had a template to copy from. This correlated with the 360 and the HD gaming era, where suddenly game creation became a lot more expensive. So once all these failed WoW clones went under, a lot of money was lost and everyone decided to get the hell out of the genre. 

We're at this point now though where there are huge markets for niche games, there are enough people gaming on places like Steam to support them. The AAA is in decline and everyone is going for these indie experiences, they're bored of AAA and are branching out. 

If someone came along and made a modern SWG with great graphics and mechanics, it would be hugely popular. Sadly though everyone has checked out and I think the genre has been confused with out genres. Now to people games like Destiny are suddenly MMOs... when they aren't. This is what the instant travel and dungeon focused MMOs have bred...

A lot of people have a problem with difficulty in MMOs for some reason, they don't find it fun to not be constantly advancing. However I feel like Shadow of Mordor fixed the problem by making it fun to die to an NPC and create little stories of your own and get grudge matches going. I really think it would be great to introduce the concept to MMOs, where mobs and NPCs that kill you level up themselves and become more powerful. 

It would really create a new dynamic to the MMO, rather than just having them all as cannon fodder. 

Well that was disappointing.
I don't get this constant need to be rewarded, what happened to playing a game for fun? Back before Battlegrounds we were doing massive city raids and fighting all over the world, if was fun and I loved the game then. Battlegrounds game in and IMO WoW was ruined and I stopped playing once they made it so you could enter them from cities. 
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by AAAMEOW

The most successful fake mmorpg made is destiny.  Which have more sales than any real mmorpg out there.

We no longer live in a world where we can make random baseless statements.  The internet exists.

  • Destiny has 16 million registered players. (source)
  • WOW peaked around 12 million monthly players. (source)
  • WOW has more than 100 million registered players. (source)

Destiny isn't an MMO, there is nothing massive about it, Destiny is a game similar to Guild Wars, Diablo or Phantasy Star Ohline.... they're online RPGs. Is COD an MMO? Lots of people play it online... no, there has to be a world and there has to be (in theory) the ability for it to have every single person in one area at the same time. 

Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by DMKano

World is just one aspect.

What makes an MMO is all the aspects put together, like world, gameplay, exploration, community, progressing your character, etc...

It's not just a singular aspect.

I totally agree, virtual world is only one key aspects, MMORPGs are a sum of their parts, and I think sometimes it's more a piece of luck rather than by design when one succeeds.

Obviously they have to get everything right, but the whole genre was made for the world... if that isn't there then it isn't an MMO. 

The problem with flying mounts is you can do it all the time, Griffins are much more like real life where you're on a set route and you cannot just get in a plane where ever you want to fly. Imagine if we could all fly in real life, the world would suck, all the mystery would be taken out. Then you have to add the fact that there is no skill in flying, it's basically like turning on no clip in a game. 


WoW's subs aren't dropping because you couldn't fly, they dropped because it's an old game, people always come back to check and expansion, realise they're still bored of it and leave instantly. 

I feel like a lot of people are missing the point, the genre first started to create online worlds. Yes players are important, but they make online games, the genre exists for the world, without it you have another genre. I just feel like no MMO since Vanilla WoW has got it right (out of the big ones), they all just create levels you have to get through as fast as possible. 

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by ikcin

Mobs, NPCs, and dev written story. Where is the MMO here? In fact you can find the same things in most singleplayer games. And they are made so much better. MMO is not about the exploration. You cannot have unique experience in a game where thousands of other players do the same. AA is a very good example, Your character climbs on the top of some unapproachable mountains to find a farm and other player walking around. The only unique experience you may have in MMOs is that related to the other players.

ESO has a giant shared world where you regularly see 40+ people in town and 24-man content too.  In town I regularly interact with those 40+ others via trading, guild-trading, and chat.


The problem with ESO is it feels fake, you feel like you're on a ride and being pushed through. It's like what WoW feels like today, only with far fewer places to go, something that MMOs never used to feel like as they tried to build the world first. 

I remember back in the day, exploring the dark scary and harsh world of EverQuest. I wanted to explore, I wanted to stay in that world because it was so well realised and took me out of reality. When I played Star Wars Galaxies for the first time I got put down on Tatooine and I felt like I was in Star Wars, I could explore this open world. You had the atmosphere of all the ships flying above, the sounds of the creatures that had been tied up and the sounds of robots walking by.

My favourite though was World of Warcraft, it so helps when you have an IP that you already love, you know all these locations but now you can explore them yourself. The zone transitions were amazing, just seamlessly walking from Elwynn Forest to Westfall blew me away. I kept wanting to play that game just to see each new zone and having that amazing seamless transition each time. Going to Booty Bay  on the boat was so amazing, in games now you'd click on an NPC and be teleported instantly, but in WoW you took a boat ride like EQ and took the journey. The Griffin rides were amazing too, being able to fly overhead of zones you haven't been to yet and just feeling the sheer size of the world, it made it all feel real. 

That is what a new MMO has to do to capture me, sadly they all treat the world like it is getting in the way. They end up getting rid of it and before you know it you have something like SWTOR where you all stand in a hub and instantly travel everywhere. What is the point in an MMO Star Wars game then? I wanted to be in that world, instead I feel like I'm in a station where I just travel to barren levels to do a boring tedious quest. It's a weird situation where KOTOR and Skyrim offered a better MMO experience than the actual so called MMOs, you basically play modern MMOs solo these days as well.


MMO doesn't = a crap RPG full of tedious kill 10 rats quests, it = a world. 

I don't think gamers have suddenly become lazy and want instant travel everywhere. There is a massive audience out there for an MMO with a big world, open PVP like what WoW had, no instant travel etc etc. There have been lots of hardcore games out there that have sold millions in recent times, it proves this fact; these forums being full of thousands of posts about how MMOs suck proves this. 

I just think there has been this shift where everyone expected to get 10 million subs like WoW. Thinking that players want all this stuff because WoW is doing it and treating players like idiots. Well 10 millions people don't player Dota 2 each month because it is easy, Dayz didn't sell 2+ million cause it was easy, Dark Souls isn't a massive hit because it's easy. 

There is space for a hardcore MMO like what EverQuest was, only with update mechanics and not playing exactly the same, which is what this thread was all about. Just a shame SOE are making the crap they're making today with EQN, you go play Project 1999, it's brutal and it has so much atmosphere.

I'm tired of people saying "old school MMOs suck"... well of course they do, they're based on dated engines, have dated mechanics, they do not play well any more and probably have been ruined by many crap patches any ways. I don't want to play Star Wars Galaxies or EverQuest or Vanilla WoW again, the options are out there to do that and I don't . I don't get why people have to look at everything so black and white, it's like American politics, you have to be one side or the other. 

It's the vision those games had which I want today, on a brand new engine that blows me away with modern mechanics etc. When those games came out they looked cutting edge and amazing, however now if an old school style MMO comes out, I don't get excited because it looks really dated already. I cannot get invested in a world that already looks old, I don't want to explore it and if the animations and character models suck, I don't feel invested in my character. 

Back then MMOs were going for big open worlds, they were going for playing in groups, a heavy emphasis on exploration, crafting, socialising and just living in a world. That is what the whole genre was created for, I keep saying it but it's THE WORLD!

The problem with modern "MMOs" and I use that term loosely because most are now just online RPGs; they don't do a world and all the content isn't there for fun, it's there to grind through ASAP. If you look at the modern MMO, the world just gets in the way of you wanting to level up fast, then you all moan when there is nothing left to do and leave; this is why none of them last very long any more. 

You'll go through a linear path (if you're lucky) and nothing is believable, it all just feels like a ride that was built to push people through. Most don't even have that any more, that was the post WoW MMO for the past 10 years. Which is funny because WoW originally got the world right, because they turned it into what it is today. That is what I come onto, they're all hub games now, WoW is, SWTOR is and all these modern stuff people consider and MMO like Destiny are just pure hub and that is it. 

Back then it was Guild Wars and the developer never dreamt about calling it an MMO. All you do now is sit in a hub and warp to boring instances where you grind over and over for no reason, you're not having fun and you've reached the cap, so you just quit the game. Destiny you literally just do the same thing over and over, you defend from waves of enemies constantly while some robot hacks a computer. Why? To get loot you'll never use because there is nothing else to do..


So when I talk about old school MMOs, I'm talking about the vision, I'm not talking about wanting that exact same game again. I just wish'd people would stop being so narrow minded, but it's these people who got the genre to where it is today. This instant gratification, having this notion that there is an end game and they want to race through it. That leads to them being frustrated by having to travel in a world and developers just having instant travel everywhere to cater to them. 

I remember when EQ2 was in beta, a lot of those quests were there for fun and you could quest grind through the game. They'd feed you puzzle like text and you had to work it out and explore and do all kinds of things. I remember them introducing a Froglok unlock quest chain type of thing and there were lots of puzzles and fun stuff to do. They used to have roaming grouped mobs and elites everywhere, you were not soloing your way through the game, not even in starter areas. I would have the best time grouping through that, making friends, chatting and being challenged because it was HARD!

Now though when you play EQ2, you run from quest hub to quest hub, get several quests, run out and solo 10 mobs at once and run back. That is what the genre became because people wanted just to get through it so fast and didn't want to group etc etc. 



So like I said, it's a vision for the genre, it isn't about wanting those exact same games in HD or whatever. 

Why does it have to be a WoW like MMO where it is really boring and feels dated like MMOs do compared to their Single Player counter parts? Who sets the rules on that? Why shouldn't people expect Skyrim online? That is what we wanted and it would have been a much better game.

In fact in the next Elder Scrolls game, just give me the ability to play with 3 other friends and that would be a much better experience. In fact it would feel more like an MMO than these modern MMOs do, I'd actually be playing in a group rather than solo. 

Originally posted by reeereee
Originally posted by MissAdventure
Originally posted by tixylix

Just played it again on the PS4 after turning my PC copy into a PS4 one... simply just because my friend got it for the console and no one I know plays it on PC. Straight away he hated it, said it's crap compared to Skyrim and stopped playing, I carried on for a bit on another character I had left over from the PC and I still don't get it. 

I just don't get any sense of being in a world, I feel like I'm on a linear path, like I'm on a ride and I just go from quest hub to quest hub. When WoW came out it didn't feel like what it does today, it didn't feel like going from hub to hub, the quests felt naturally placed in the world and I could believe it. I loved exploring that world, but now Blizzard have since ruined it and killed off the world. 

The whole "world" feels fake, like it is there for my amusement and I just cannot buy it. I loved Skyrim's world, it felt so rich, it felt open and like I could go anywhere and do anything. TESO however just feels like I have my hand held throughout a single linear path. 

The quests are so boring as well, just typical "go here and kill 10 of these" or "inspect 4 of these" or "talk to this person" etc etc. I just don't get how we had Skyrim and Oblivion and Morrowind, games that felt like the MMO I wanted, some how they stripped all that out and put the crap stuff of MMOs in. The combat sucks as well, TES games never had great combat, but this just feels weird and unresponsive. Everything feels cheap the engine just feels like second rate crap, you can tell it was made by the B team.

No idea why you'd play this over Skyrim, you end up playing TESO solo and tbh Skyrim is a better solo MMO than this.

*cough* Bullsh*t.


Quest hub to quest hub?  Puh-leeese.  There aren't any hubs.  You literally have to go off the beaten path to find quests.  You can't even complete a zone without bush-wacking to every corner and in between (as well as delving into dungeons) to find all the quests.


Kill 10 of this?  Gather 5 of that?  You're kidding me.  ESO has some of the most involved, adult oriented, and interesting quest design and dialogue that I've seen in the 16 years I've been playing online games.


Anyone who plays the game knows that you are blowing smoke up the reader's arses.  Anyone.  Then again, you think WoW has superior quest design, so go figure.



I take it you passed on SWTOR then?  When I think of the SWTOR agent story that had: story arc, character development, plot twists... as opposed to ESO where I bounced from one shallow, poorly written, disjointed quest to another I really don't see how you could compare the two.



People keep saying this about modern MMOs, how the quests are so involved and story focused now...


No it doesn't matter if it is SWTOR, Modern WoW or TESO, all I end up doing is having the story spoken to me in a shot reverse shot style with dialogue options. Then I run to a spot, kill 10 things, collect 5 things, speak to someone or deliver something. Then I have the story concluded when I run back and speak to someone else, maybe a boss mob spawns and that is it. 


There is no depth to the quests like what you have in skyrim or GTA or The Witcher 3.


Originally posted by Icky_Bleh

LOl, this clown quits and I still cant even log on because there are too many people online. 


I think the OP is just mad at the game because he got beat in pvp.

I didn't even see any PVP, with the poor combat system it has I don't think I'd want too either. However that is another thing that annoyed me because the world doesn't have PVP in it, everyone I met was friendly and I couldn't see enemy factions? I haven't looked up any information about it, but if this was an Elder Scrolls game it would be at the very least faction based full open world PVP like what Vanilla WoW used to be before Battlegrounds. 

Just played it again on the PS4 after turning my PC copy into a PS4 one... simply just because my friend got it for the console and no one I know plays it on PC. Straight away he hated it, said it's crap compared to Skyrim and stopped playing, I carried on for a bit on another character I had left over from the PC and I still don't get it. 

I just don't get any sense of being in a world, I feel like I'm on a linear path, like I'm on a ride and I just go from quest hub to quest hub. When WoW came out it didn't feel like what it does today, it didn't feel like going from hub to hub, the quests felt naturally placed in the world and I could believe it. I loved exploring that world, but now Blizzard have since ruined it and killed off the world. 

The whole "world" feels fake, like it is there for my amusement and I just cannot buy it. I loved Skyrim's world, it felt so rich, it felt open and like I could go anywhere and do anything. TESO however just feels like I have my hand held throughout a single linear path. 

The quests are so boring as well, just typical "go here and kill 10 of these" or "inspect 4 of these" or "talk to this person" etc etc. I just don't get how we had Skyrim and Oblivion and Morrowind, games that felt like the MMO I wanted, some how they stripped all that out and put the crap stuff of MMOs in. The combat sucks as well, TES games never had great combat, but this just feels weird and unresponsive. Everything feels cheap the engine just feels like second rate crap, you can tell it was made by the B team.

No idea why you'd play this over Skyrim, you end up playing TESO solo and tbh Skyrim is a better solo MMO than this.

Skyrim is designed to have fun in, the quests are all there because they're fun and you want to explore and live in the world.

MMOs however are all designed to grind through them ASAP, all the content is boring, there is no world any more and end game is considered when the game actually starts.

Like a lot of genres these days, AAA gaming is dead, it has been for years, all been smaller indie games where I've had the fun.


For about 4/5 years now I've just been playing smaller games, I try to get into "AAA" games and I'm just bored of how they're all rehashed crap. 

Better be careful, 100k is a lot of players for WoW these days lol.
Everything, it makes death exciting and always keeps you busy, Dayz, Minecraft and EVE prove that to me, all of those were massively popular.
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