Originally posted by laokoko

You are comparing a really old game to a relative new game.  I dont' even need to play it to know there are more low level in SWTOR compare to Wow. 

and it's very unlikely swtor will have 1.7m sub if you exclude tne asian population, and the new server they opened in other area/country.  Most people that want to play the game probably already bought it the first week, and I'm sure "some" quit.

 

The only benefit to asian subs is inflating numbers, they are on a different and much less profitable revenue model.

Originally posted by echose7en

You are making no sence, unless your guild is for only for level 1s to 20s then whats the point, guilds dont just recruit from that level range, and just becasue you found something does not mean they are FACT across the board.

 

Here is what i've seen, alot of my guild in WoW made a guild in SWTOR, for the first couple of weeks people where very active, 3-4 weeks in only about 5 people left and then when the time came to sub for the second month there where ZERO people left in the guild, EVERYONE had quit, now just becasue thats what ive seen does not make it a FACT across the board, calling people bias becasue they dont agree with you is just stupid and to me your coming across more that way than anyone else in this thread.

 

Fact is theres alot of avidence out there that does not support your claim, and does look like it is not growing but in decline.

Again your "evidence" is not supported by what is happening in game in SWTOR or WoW.

Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Unfortunately the best you get with that analogy is a 10million litre size glass that's not yet full being filled more than it leaks.

WoW does not have anywhere near 10 million paying subscribers.   WoW lost 2 million subs in 2011 alone.     Activision blizzard reported their first loss ever in 4th qtr 2011 due primarily to the loss of wow subs.Most subscribers are outside of EU and NA and pay much less to play than those in EU and NA do.   WoW is down to 2-3 million in EU and NA combined, if that.   WoW is no longer the behemoth it once was.

Originally posted by sicness277

Server stats mean nothing compared to your personal experience? And you have the audactiy to claim that other people are biased when they disagree with you?

Please read before you post.  When sever stats disagree with what I see in game, yes, they mean nothing.

Originally posted by MosesZD

 

Ah, ha ha hah ahaaa.....    That's rich.   The answer is NO.    

 

http://www.torstatus.net/shards/us/trends

 

No servers have been added, save three Oceania servers, since 12/20/2011.   Server-hours are now over 50% LIGHT during weekend play.  That's peak play and a doubling of this negative measurement (25% to 50%).     Server hours are now just 3% heavy on weekends (during peak playtime), down from 30% heavy on January 8th.   That's 1/10th the 'heavy status' hours of January 8th.

 

So a doubling of time spent in light (under 450 players) and one-tenth the time spent in heavy...   And you're saying SWTOR growing?   Face the facts.   Just face 'em.   Make your peace with the upcoming server mergers and stop pretending this game is an unqualified success.   It's not.

 

The only thing SWTOR is better at is contracting.    It's crashing and burning at a  much faster rate than WoW...

 

Sever stats on websites dont mean anything.  All that matters is players in game.   The wow leveling zones are deserted while the SWTOR leveling zones, at least on my server are bustling.

Originally posted by Bunks

Server status, player polling, EA using nebulous statements that can be truth from one extreme to the other, Xfire trends, falling new game sales,and even forum QQing, all add up to the game headed in one direction. The only question now is, how much.

I left wow because I could no longer maintain a viable guild there due to decreasing numbers of new players coming to the game.  I concluded that wow is in fact a dying game.   In SWTOR I have found the opposite.   My guild has continued to grow and gain new members.  What is more, the quality of the new members is much higher.   In SWTOR, about half of new members stay and become active, contributing guild members.   In WoW, I found that only about 1 in 20 recruits become active, contributing guild members.  Yes, wow is moving in one direction, down and MoP will not save it.   For us on our SWTOR server, the game is moving in one direction, up.

Originally posted by RefMinor

 

On January  8th, with sales at 1.88 miillion,  one week after the new year, servers were (by hours/status) approximately 30% heavy, 45% standard, 25% light and wait times were still possilble on the heaviest servers.     This weekend's peak, including TRIAL USERS was 4% heavy 44% standard and 52% light on 2.22 million units sold.     Further, over 80% of all servers now run at 50% or less time at standard.   Some servers have not gotten out of light for weeks.

 

Thanks to MosesZD for the info.

As a guild leader, all that matters is actual characters logged in and playing the game.  When statistics disagree with what I actually see in game, I will go with what I see in game.

There really is only one way to verify what I am saying.  Log into both games at about the same time and go to the zone in question and do a /who 1-20 or whatever you are looking for.   Those are the only statisitcs that matter to the viablity of an MMORPG.

Originally posted by sicness277

Originally posted by blackweb
 

These so called 'facts' are hardly definitive though. Just because you came to a conclusion from your personal experience doesn't mean in any way that's the actual situation of these games. Your point of view is considerably more biased than anyone countering you because you're basing your 'conclusion' off extremely minimal research.

Stop trying to write people's opinions off just because they disagree with your obviously flawed research that you claim is conclusive when it's anything but. I could just as easily make the same claims that you did in favor of WoW, but without any any logical research done it's not as definitive as you'd like it to be.

 It is a fact that there were 20-35 characters leveling on Courscant yesterday.   It is a fact that in SWTOR yesterday on Courscant, I recruited 20 new characters, about 1/4 of whom were alts in a few hours.  While these facts may disagree with the myths and outright falsehoods spewed in this an other forums about SWTOR, they are nonetheless facts.

Originally posted by Bunks

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=340773 Server Merges
 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700&page=71 Server  population is dropping...
 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=375176 Is this game dying already or is it just slowing down?
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=340708 When will there be a "SERVER MERGE?"
 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=374849 Give us 1.2 as it is FAST !!! Too many players leaving the game !!!

and of course who can forget the "active" players polled http://i.imgur.com/DMObE.png

 

Yeah, sure this game is surging! LOL

 

and listen to the radio podcast from teh guild leader sumit. All but two guilds were crying about a severe drop in members and no new players joning, well except rerolling alts.

QQ threads are not facts.

Originally posted by echose7en

Originally posted by blackweb
 

You are comparing a game that was just released to a game that has been out for 7 odd years, mmos after so long tend to be top heavy level wise.

Just becasue thats what you encounted on that server with your guild does not making it fact across the board, one of the biggest thread on SWTOR is one complaining about their servers being dead and that is a new game thats not been released long, not a good sign.

Again, just because facts disagree with your closely held beliefs does not make them wrong.  Go take a look on your server(s), prove me wrong if you can.   I think you will find a pattern across almost all WoW and SWTOR servers, SWTOR is growing, WoW is in maintenance mode at  best.

Originally posted by Larsa

Sorry, but your reasoning is way off: You assume that new characters mean new players. But that's not a valid assumption, certainly not in a game where making alts is considered "endgame". :)

You are letting your personal bias interfere with your objectivity.   Objectively, which is a better recruiting pool for guild leaders, 28 characters scattered across 15 zones or 88 characters in 3 zones?

I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday.   Only about 1/4 of them were alts.   Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15.  Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day.

Originally posted by killion81

I would imagine that the emphasis of one game on repeatedly rerolling versus the emphasis of the other game on maintaining playing a single or main max level character has no effect on this scientifically supported hypothesis.

Again, new characters are THE key measure of MMORPG viability.  As a guild leader, I can attest to that fact.

Originally posted by RefMinor

 

Was the server full, heavy, standard or light?, do you think the free trial weekend will have any affect on the starting areas population?

Both games are doing promotions this weekend so again, I am comparing apples to apples.  Both servers are medium population.

Originally posted by Damon

I think there is a design flaw in SW:TOR.  The zones are planets.  On top of this, the fleet is the hub of social interaction.  So, most players do not intereact with new players and the starting areas are empty.  In contrast, WoW has starting areas just outside the major cities.  I think it is important to have starting areas around major hubs, then have the content designed to be progressively difficult the further you venture away from the hub.

If new characters is the measure of good design, SWTOR is clearly winning.

The key to MMORPG viability is "how many new players are coming to the game?" or "how many players are leveling new characters?" when the starting zones are empty, its over for an MMORPG. Why are starting zone numbers so important to MMORPG viability?  Because without new players it is very difficult for guilds to recruit and form new guilds or replace losses due to attrition in existing guilds.   New blood is the key to guild and MMORPG viability.

Lets compare The number of players in WoW's Alliance starting zones on the Maelstrom RP-PvP server to the number of players in the Republic starting zones on the Ven Zallow RP-PvP server from levels 1-20 today, Sunday March 3/25/2012 at 11:00 AM CST. Both servers are medium population. Here are the numbers;

• Maelstrom Alliance: 1-20 - 28 characters
• Ven Zallow Repuplic: 1-20 - 88 characters.

The numbers speak for themselves. SWTOR is clearly growing twice as fast as wow by sufficient numbers more than replace any losses due to attrition while WoW is in maintenance mode at best or is slowly losing players.  Neither game is dying but SWTOR is clearly more healthy than WoW.  You will likely find similar results on most servers in WoW and SWTOR.

Edit:

Objectively, which is a better recruiting pool for guild leaders, 28 characters scattered across 15 zones or 88 characters in 3 zones?

I recruited 20 new players in one 10-16 zone, Courscant yesterday. Only about 1/4 of them were alts. Today in Westfall there were only 3 characters from 10-15. Yesterday on Courscant there were 20-35 all day.

Feel free to post your results from your server(s).