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All Posts by phantomghost

All Posts by phantomghost

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It was very disappointing to see what they had planned for EQN.

 

I remember when I was still enjoying EQ talks of the so called EverQuest Next coming out being the updated version of EQ1.... well the rumor of EQN was true... the part about being anything similar to EQ... not so much.

The unusual feature I would like is group content and more required social interaction.
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by phantomghost
 

I honestly do not get the idea behind catering to people with 30 minutes or less to devote to a game.  I play games as a time sink.  I do not just play them to fill 20 minutes of random activities because I cannot stay focused on one task for any longer.  If I only have 30 minutes, and I decide I want to log on the game I use my time for what I can... crafting, bazaar/ah, traveling to where I want to be when I have more time, maybe a couple quick solo mobs, planning what I will do later with friends online, etc.  

 

You don't have to get it. You just have to know that they exists.

And 30 min is long. I sometimes play 15 min sessions (like one random dungeon in D3). I do that in between work, or tv, or before dinner. But the reason is not important. The important thing is that there are people who do that, and apparently devs know and design for it.

 

And there are about 100 MMO's you can choose from that playing 15-30 mins a day will take you the rest of your life.

Originally posted by Kefo
Originally posted by fivoroth

When MMOs were designed to be a second life, they were not mainstream. The whole MMO industry probably wasn't even close to 1m players. The most successful mmo was EQ wih its measly 400-500k subs at its peak.

Those old school MMOs were not suitable for the people who want play 30 min here and here but they were also not suitable for people who didn't have an insane amount of spare time. Those games were completely unplayable even if you could only do 1-2 hours, especially EQ. I am so happy that games nowadays don't adopt the EQ philosophy. Even the once mighty EQ bowed down to WoW and was wow-ified. 

As Enbysra stated we are in a MMO dark age and I blame WoW for ushering it in. Don't get me wrong I played it for many years and it was (my opinion) a good game. The industry took a turn for the worst when every company out there tried copying WoW in order to get a piece of the pie.

Nowadays devs are afraid to go back to the old days of MMO design. Some have tried but have kept it still too in line with WoW to really distinguish itself. You don't need WoW level subs in order to be profitable but everyone is trying to hit that and design their game with that in mind and when they fail to achieve it they get shut down or get cut funding to circle the drain while trying to recoup their losses.

 

I honestly do not get the idea behind catering to people with 30 minutes or less to devote to a game.  I play games as a time sink.  I do not just play them to fill 20 minutes of random activities because I cannot stay focused on one task for any longer.  If I only have 30 minutes, and I decide I want to log on the game I use my time for what I can... crafting, bazaar/ah, traveling to where I want to be when I have more time, maybe a couple quick solo mobs, planning what I will do later with friends online, etc.  

 

But when my life comes down to only having a maximum of 30 minutes per sessions... I think I would realize I do not need to play the game it just does not fit my schedule. That or I need to manage my time better so I can put multiple 30 minute sessions together, but time management is not something crazy people who lack an attention span can accomplish.

 

I guess it would not of been unreasonable for me to expect a game to be designed to cater to my time, when I worked two full time jobs and full time college.  There should have been a game that catered to the few minutes I had to sleep, eat, get ready, and play my games because games that only take a few minutes like solitaire or minesweeper don't exist. 

I check to see what new games are coming out.  After the past 10 years or so of terrible games, I don't usually get excited about a game.  

Once they make an MMO a bit more social and focused on people who have more than a few minutes to spare at any given sessions, maybe I will get more excited to play a game.  

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
May want to watch EQN is you are stick of Linear questing, They have not revealed their questing system in full but what they are hinting at in this area could be very exciting. I dream of a day when a MMO has horizontal progression and linear questing is not the main stay of the game.

I was following EQN closely when they first starting doing the round table... but it quickly seemed to turn into a game I am not interested in.  I will very likely watch it as it gets closer but a lot of the round table responses led me to believe the game was not for me.

 

Fast travel- many options to minimize downtime (catering to the 15-30mins at a time players)

Guns- We will make them fit the lore

Death Penalty- Minimal

Can change your class easily (can change your class in general)- biggest turn off.  That is what more than 1 character slot is for.

Buyback on vendors for people who do not pay attention.  This was a huge part of EQ going to vendors and potentially finding a nice buy to use or resell.

Talk of more than 1 guild.  Hate this idea... the idea behind guilds is lost.  They are too easy to create, they need to bring back meaning to a guild by making it more difficult for people to form guilds... not any alt can create a guild.  

There answer to the changing appearance of armor basically sounded like cash shop to change appearance... removing the uniqueness of obtaining and wearing items lots of players want.  (Of course I expected this with FTP- prefer subscription but I realize there is more money in cash shop)

Other things I was more or less indifferent on- modable ui, holidays, etc as long as it wasn't like this modern hand out system... I always did enjoy in EQ doing the quests to get a holiday only item even if it was just a minor illusion or an item I would replace easily.  

Basically, I gather that they are trying to cater to the overly casual MMO players.  And that kind of game is not for me... I have less time now than I did when I was younger playing EQ... but when I play a game I plan to play for a few hours on end.  I do not feel the need to randomly say I got 12 minutes, I guess I can go play this game for 10 mins or so.  

My attention span is a bit longer than the "new modern casual players" and I do not feel the need to be doing something different every 10-15 minutes because... I am not an insane person; I do not see clouds cover the sun making it darker in my room and randomly decide its time to go dig a hole, eat a sandwich, scrub the toilet, turn the fan on, stare at the floor, turn my car on, check to ensure I turned my car off last night, take a shower, ring the door bell, plant a tree, wash my hands, make my bed, go to bed, start the dryer with nothing in it, look under my bed for monsters, etc... I can focus on one thing for moderate to long time periods.

 

Originally posted by Golelorn
There used to be games and MMOs with almost no quest. Shocking, I know.

Good games too.  

Some people just need their hand held their entire life.  

 

There is nothing more disappointing  than starting a game and seeing this:

 

 

                         !

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by cmorris975

EQ 1 had the Oasis of Marr, a lowbie area with mobs called Hill Giants that would kill anyone level appropriate for the zone in under 5 seconds if it wandered close enough.  It also had a group of undead spectres that would do the same.  Someone could accidentally wander into the spectre group, escape by running but the spectres would follow for awhile.  On the spectres' return trip to their spot they could aggro lowbies and wipe them out.  A mummy could wander by and give you a disease that would slow your HP regen to an absolute crawl for 45 minutes unless you had a friendly cleric around to clear it.

It made the zone intense.  People communicated in shouts letting everyone know where the Hill Giant was or if the spectres were loose.  Dying was a pain in the ass and could set you back twenty minutes in XP loss and corpse retrieval.  I loved it, but I know there is a large majority of gamers today who don't like setbacks and intensity like that.  To them it is tedious, to me it is tedious to play a game without risk and community born of a common danger.  

 

I guess I can sort of see their point of view but I don't really understand how something can be rewarding to accomplish if it isn't difficult.  The two seem inextricably intertwined to me.  If the game is easy, how could it be rewarding to do well?

I think people don't like the hole premise that you lose progress if you die. What you are describing is not difficult. Those Giants and spectres one shot because they are much higher level. Other genres don't need to rely on unnecessary time sinks. Time sinks and situations where mobs 30 levels above you one shot you are not difficult, they are just frustrating for people who have limited time to play. EQ was never a game for anyone who couldn't dedicate a bare minimum of 4 hours a day, usually people would play it for 10 hours plus. This is why people often joked that people who played evercrack were basement dwellers :)

In other genres games are difficult and exciting because they require skill and they are actually difficult. The MMOs of old were not difficukt per se, they just took ages to get anything done.

Difficulty is really defined differently for each person.  I would find this more difficult.  Knowing at any giving time something may run across or spawn on me that will kill me.  Then I get to run back naked, which again makes it more difficult to get my corpse through even conned mobs.  Some would define doing 100s of quests to level up difficult... I would define it as boring.  (Another aspect that makes things easier is now we know a mobs exact level (few exceptions) and if its a normal mob or a elite mob...)

I personally prefer the time sinks, because honestly if I am playing a game... I am playing it for something to do.  Which is why I love games with heavy grinding.  I am not into this whole I got 15 minutes I need every game to cater to my lack of time availability.

As far as the 4 hour comment... that is not true.  I started when I was 9 years old and I got to play maybe 1-2 hours every weekend split between multiple sessions... and that was shared time with my brother who also was playing.  Eventually I ended up dedicating more time to the game but I still enjoyed the game very much even just playing on the weekends... and never for 4 hours.  I remember me and my brother would stay up waiting to use the computer my entire family shared, then we would each play 1-2 hours often times the group we were in we would attempt to replace each other to minimize downtime.

It was not until I reached end game that my play time actually decreased. I almost only played when I raided... and again it would increase when a new expansion came out and I had catching up to do.

 

I agree to an extent that old MMO's lack skill.  I agree to the fact that it was fairly easy to play the game, but it was more difficult to learn your role.  The tab target model allowed for people to actually strategize rather than turn into zergs of people constantly clicking.  But thinking of all the MMO's I played what did the skill base system really turn into?

 

AoC: Arrow Key combos

WoW: 140 different abilities to use.

Numerous clones of WoW.  FPS style... really nothing amazing worth losing the strategic part of gameplay they took out to be more immersed into the games combat.  

Originally posted by cmorris975

EQ 1 had the Oasis of Marr, a lowbie area with mobs called Hill Giants that would kill anyone level appropriate for the zone in under 5 seconds if it wandered close enough.  It also had a group of undead spectres that would do the same.  Someone could accidentally wander into the spectre group, escape by running but the spectres would follow for awhile.  On the spectres' return trip to their spot they could aggro lowbies and wipe them out.  A mummy could wander by and give you a disease that would slow your HP regen to an absolute crawl for 45 minutes unless you had a friendly cleric around to clear it.

It made the zone intense.  People communicated in shouts letting everyone know where the Hill Giant was or if the spectres were loose.  Dying was a pain in the ass and could set you back twenty minutes in XP loss and corpse retrieval.  I loved it, but I know there is a large majority of gamers today who don't like setbacks and intensity like that.  To them it is tedious, to me it is tedious to play a game without risk and community born of a common danger.  

 

I guess I can sort of see their point of view but I don't really understand how something can be rewarding to accomplish if it isn't difficult.  The two seem inextricably intertwined to me.  If the game is easy, how could it be rewarding to do well?

 

 

EQ had lots of zones like this.  OT, DSP, Unrest, CoM, Feerrott, RM, EC, WC, MM, 

 

You also had quite a few options per level range... (which continued to expand with each expansion)

 

Just to get to 30 I might end up seeing g fay, bb,  cb, lfay, fob, kurns, ot, ww unrest, hph, hk... with many other options... there was no follow this specific path garbage.

 

You could go to 

Linear questing has now become so far out of hand we are down to 5 or less zones for all levels.

 

 

Originally posted by rodarin
Originally posted by phantomghost

 

 

 

 

 

I didn't have 207 hours on all 4 of my max leveled chars combined.  

 

You must be talking about hourly full time jobs.  Many salary full time positions are 50+ hours a week.  Which in that case 207 is about a full time job.  

 

As far as knowing how to play MMO's... these are not MMO's they are RPG with other players running around that have little outcome on the game.  

 

One reason the content is pointless is because knowing it is unnecessary.  If they did not provide a clearly marked map, path etc to do the trivial, people may actually follow the content.  But when I can play WoW, SWTOR, TESO all these boring 1 path to take quest following bull shit games with the same story.. different theme, I do not find any entertainment in following the predictable boring storyline.  

 

ESO about 20-30 hours 1-max.  Going back to P1999 20-30 hours (starting fresh) - Level 20-25 maybe?  Another 20-30hours maybe lvl 30-35.  Another 100 hours maybe lvl 50?  Oh, and I went to more than 5 zones.  

 

 If you had 4 max level toons and didnt have 200 hours then no you werent playing the game right. Sorry. At least not as an ES game.

 

ESO isnt an MMO for you because if you think doing quests are pointless then you again, dont know ES games.

 

You also dont have to have the map marked. You can only follow one quest at a time anyway (unless you have an add on) so there is nothing saying you have to know exactly where to go or in what direction you need to go to do soemthing.

 

But I suspect since youre complaining about all this and using it as a reason why ESO isnt any good, you have every add on available(Shard one, lorebook one, multiple quest one etc( that way you have your hand held and know the shortest route and the fastest path to everything that without the add you would take forever to find.

 

Thats why I always get a kick out of these threads and especially comments like yours because you complain about all this stuff not existing but it is fact does exist you just choose to ahave a program that does the exact thing you are complaining about.

I had the shard and lorebook addon.  I only quested on my first character, and the remaining 3 were only quested to lvl 15 besides the main zone storyline quest.  

 

I complain that there is no end game.  

 

I think I had made it obvious I enjoy games like EQ where it took a long to progress.  To me character progression is fun to me, if it is simple it is not fun... not the boring story that really amounts to nothing new.  

 

It is not hard to click each quest to see where it puts you and bunch them together... unless you are 5 years old and cannot process 2nd grade multi-tasking.  

 

So please do tell me how this game had good character progression?  20-30 hours to max level.  One specific build that was way more powerful than all the others.  Ultimately minimal to no gain after so many skill points.  You can use 5 skills making it so you use 2 weapon slots to have 2 main builds... 10 skills needed then.  PvP based skills, but I have grown tired of PvP as I said I feel it has become a means to fill the lack of end game.  Gear was extremely easy to obtain.  Crafting was no problem because if you deconned everything you would be 37+ in each skill minimum.  

 

I never said I hated everything about the game, I did enjoy it for the 1.5-2months I played and then I felt like I beat it because I had maxed every class and had nothing to do except go do boring quests.

 

(PS.  I hate quests to level..  I prefer the grind)

We would have another EQ2/WoW type game to choose from.

 

mmo's don't have pvp to make up for a lack of pve content, what a ridiculous statement. you also might want to realize that EQ indeed had pvp servers that they threw in after the fact.

does that mean that EQ was also trying to make up for their lack of content? lol

or maybe just maybe they were trying to cater to a style of gaming that a lot of people enjoy in their mmo's?

people on this forum will never change, you either like what they like or they bash the hell out of it to try and make sure people only like what they like.

 

Big difference.  PvP servers were a different ruleset. 

 

PvP on current boring MMO's offer alternatives to PvE.  The gear in most cases is nearly as good as its raid counterpart they just have 1 with a PvP stat and the raid has a PvE stat...

 

So end game content.  What was there in ESO?  Easy 12 man content.  Easy 4 man content.  Both of which offered hardly better gear than the easily obtainable crafted player sets.  And then ... PvP.

Originally posted by rodarin

This thread still going?

 

If you listen to all the voice acting there are a thousand or more hours in this game. I had 207 hours in my 30 days and I didnt listen to much and only got to level 46 on my main (just started the Coldharbour chains) and a few alts to levels 6-10 (mostly for points to put into crafting).

 

In case youre bad at math 207 hours in 30 days is way more than a  full time job worth of hours. An extra six days actually.

 

So even for no lifers without real jobs living off the state, Social Security or the government in some form or another there is plenty of 'stuff' to do in the game. But that is the same with every game, most games have a finite number of hours of non repeatable content in them. The real time length of that game play is going to depend on how many hours straight you play the game. But a thousand hours can last someone almost a year if they average 3 hours a day (which is a lot actually).

 

Thats the great iront every person who ever complained about any MMO not having enough content are the ones who really shouldnt be playing MMOs anyway because they dont know how to.

I didn't have 207 hours on all 4 of my max leveled chars combined.  

 

You must be talking about hourly full time jobs.  Many salary full time positions are 50+ hours a week.  Which in that case 207 is about a full time job.  

 

As far as knowing how to play MMO's... these are not MMO's they are RPG with other players running around that have little outcome on the game.  

 

One reason the content is pointless is because knowing it is unnecessary.  If they did not provide a clearly marked map, path etc to do the trivial, people may actually follow the content.  But when I can play WoW, SWTOR, TESO all these boring 1 path to take quest following bull shit games with the same story.. different theme, I do not find any entertainment in following the predictable boring storyline.  

 

ESO about 20-30 hours 1-max.  Going back to P1999 20-30 hours (starting fresh) - Level 20-25 maybe?  Another 20-30hours maybe lvl 30-35.  Another 100 hours maybe lvl 50?  Oh, and I went to more than 5 zones.  

 

Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Siug
Originally posted by mrneurosis
Originally posted by phantomghost

Well I believe level has increased to Vr14 now.. but when I quit it was Vr12...

 

6-7 days for 1 to Vr12 is the main reason I quit.

 

Another 4-7 days for full suit of player crafted armor... under 2 weeks you have a top of the line character with the only improvements being more skill points or the (I wouldn't call it raid) slightly larger than group PvE sets.  

 

Then I suppose you can do what all the games now seem to do for lack of PvE Progression... PvP.  

 

That and the terrible balance of  builds (meaning there was a specific weapon build that beat the rest ... by a lot).

 

And i really doubt they are going to patch in more engaging end game all of a sudden after B2P switch.  A lot of players quit when they hit lvl cap and yes not everyone is into PVP. For ESO 1 to 50 lvl content isn't the problem it is the end game and lack of grouping tool which really discourages people. Spamming LFG is not my thing really.

And with that I agree completely.

Again, people complaining about end game content. If ESO doesn't offer comparable end game content, than please give an example of a game that does, that is actually more successful than ESO. People are complaining that ESO is too easy and yes, I agree it is easy. However, there are a lot of people who claim a lot of MMO's are ridiculously difficult, such as Wildstar. There will never be an MMO that pleases everyone, so try to understand that. ESO is based off a very popular single player game, so I'm sure that went into a lot of the thought process when designing the game. ESO is probably thee most solo friendly MMO on the market.

Also, the fact anyone can get to VR12 or VR14 in 2 weeks or less only means one thing, you are a content locust and you probably don't give a crap about story or content. In that case, you deserve to be bored. It took me 2-3 weeks to get one character to VR1 and I did about 90-95% of the Dominion content and 100% of Coldharbor. However, in defense of ESO, I didn't pay attention to the story in order to level quicker because I wanted to get a character to VR status in order to get some Champion points before 1.6 patch went live.

ESO does have Craglorn as it's PvE endgame along with VR dungeons. Cyrodil is a very important part of the ESO endgame as well. Most MMO's rely on PvP endgame to cover the game's lack of PvE content updates. GW2 has WvW, WoW has Arena, Battlegrounds and Wintergrasp. I'm almost willing to bet, every major PvE MMO still has PvP available because of that very reason.

So, your hatred for ESO basically covers every MMO ever made. Not a great argument, but I wouldn't expect much from blind hatred.

I got sick of the story that started 11 years ago.  That is pick up 5 items here, kill 10 mobs here, follow the map that points you right to where you need to go.  Then the stories are all the same.  This thing will die if I do not have 7 flowers to make a potion to heal them.  We will lose this battle if you don't kill 15 ogres.  Hard to believe every character I make can run into the same problem as the last apparently my killing 50 ogres wasn't all the story made it out to be.  Be like me watching Lion king 20x and expecting the story to change... it doesn't, so why would I care to do the story for the 100th time.

And the best MMO still made to date EQ, did not have PvP to make up for their lack of content.  They had MMO features like group and raid content progression.

 

Well I believe level has increased to Vr14 now.. but when I quit it was Vr12...

 

6-7 days for 1 to Vr12 is the main reason I quit.

 

Another 4-7 days for full suit of player crafted armor... under 2 weeks you have a top of the line character with the only improvements being more skill points or the (I wouldn't call it raid) slightly larger than group PvE sets.  

 

Then I suppose you can do what all the games now seem to do for lack of PvE Progression... PvP.  

 

That and the terrible balance of  builds (meaning there was a specific weapon build that beat the rest ... by a lot).

The most enjoyable and the fastest leveling build I did was a sorc.

 

(As the previous person stated) destro staff when I quit was the overall end game best way.. but it was not what I used to level.

 

I did what people called the reaver type build.  I did not follow anybody's specific build but just the general guideline choosing what worked best for me.

 

Dual wield, medium armor, etc.  Critical surge is the main ability if I recall that you want for healing purposes.  The ultimate was the fighters guild flawless dawnbreaker for the passive dmg.

 

Primarily focused on health and stamina and melee crit chance.  I did DW the whole time it starts out a bit tough until you start opening up more abilities.

Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Ramajama
 

 I have joined 5 (FIVE) guilds, and been hanging out in front of the dungeon for good proportion of my playing time. With my freaking tank! No groups at all as a result. When a guy like me, that has 90 minutes of playing time in the evening available, I simply cannot spend it frustratingly "looking for friends".

^This

And another issue with modern MMO's (or even old 1s now since they have integrated this new guild garbage).  

 

Guild's now are easily made.  They typically require 1 player... if they require more- all it requires is people to sign something then leave it.  Making too many available guilds.  Most guilds end up just being another LFG tool or smaller version of a general chat channel.

People can make a different guild for each of their characters in many games.  (not the ones that put all your characters in the same guilds)  But these typically let you join multiple guilds.. another issue to me.

 

A guild almost serve no purpose.  You can join and leave a guild with little repercussions.  A guild use to have value when it actually required dedication to create and run a guild.  

 

The only guilds now that hold any value are the high end guilds that have higher standards required to join.  I remember when joining a guild use to be a process.  It would require a trial period (where you joined or sometimes not) but had to have people vouch for you.  It use to be something you did not just join because you were invited.  You joined because the guild was going a direction that you wanted to go.  Whether that was casual raiding, grouping or hardcore raiding.  You joined with people you played the game with- building a stronger community within the guild.  

Originally posted by Rhoklaw

This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say MMO's now are so dumbed down since UO or EQ. You don't need a dungeon finder to do dungeons. You need to get your anti-social butt into a guild or make your own group of friends. I swear people are so against guilds or making friends now and want nothing more than to "hit it and quit it" in terms of dungeons. What I missed about vanilla EQ and the difficulty of that MMO is probably the main reason most new MMO's fail, cause you content locusts that skip through quests only to level up to max level and complain that you are bored should just stop playing MMO's altogether. At the very least, you should stick to FPS games or similar products that don't focus on story content or exploration elements, like Planetside 2.

As for anyone who complained in this thread that ESO is too hard or broken. Get over your lone wolf attitude and play MMO's as they were intended. This particular MMO is actually one of the most favorable towards the "lone wolf" personalities. Aside from a lack of a working group finder, which is nothing more than a crutch in my opinion, ESO is truly solo friendly.

I disagree to an extent... I agree this game is very solo friendly.  However, I don't agree with the content portion. The problem isn't with skipping through the content, the content is just lacking.  99% of the quests are easily soloed and therefore in my mind are unnecessary.  Additionally, even the "group" quests can be soloed in numerous cases if you play the right class.  In all reality the whole idea behind quests has ruined these games for me.  They are too obvious (in what is the easiest way to get it done is).  For example, a quest to pick items up or loot items- slower if you group because you share the same dropped items.  If it is a quest to kill a specific number of mobs, it is faster as a group because you share kills and they count for the same amount of credit...  

 

I don't think the story is what makes the MMO as much as what players as a whole make of it.  And obviously if solo is the easiest path, that is the path people will take.  

 

You mention EQ (my favorite MMO)  whats the difference between the quests.  Now quests have a clear obvious path to take... some even have markers on the map telling you what to do.  Without reading the quest, you can see what needs to be done... collect 10, kill 20 etc.  EQ on the other hand, you had to at the very least read the [words inside the squares]... or know what the last [phrase to say is].  To make it better, the quests typically were more difficult requiring you to travel to various zones to obtain all the items (at least the ones that offered anything decent)  even the easy quests (4 bonechips etc) offered little.  (Bonechips and orc belts (df and cb belts and pads)  were about the only time you got a considerable amount of xp at low level- but the sacrifice was those items had a higher player value- which you lost out on... additionally your characters skills may be lacking if you over used these quests)  

 

Epic quests that actually gave decent gear took quite some time... and if done during their time frame also required grouping.   Now the difference between a "solo" quest and a "sort of groupable" quest is a green or blue item, that you will easily replace in the next xp zone.  (Which is a whole new issue- there are now like 5 zones to level up in compared to hundreds- meaning there is a specific and limited path for you to follow- again making the story in my opinion... less valuable)  

 

Go to ESO... it takes 1 week or less (while working a 40 hour work week) to go lvl 1 to vr12 with minimal effort by grinding.  Besides Power Leveling, this would be impossible back in EQ in 1999... even through Luclin.

 I quit ESO less than a year ago and yet I barely remember zone names etc, the game did not stick with me.  I quit EQ years ago.. and I still remembered 95% of the zones when I went back to it... even going back to play I remembered my way around the zones (on p1999 with no maps).  The difference, I was involved in the zones...The zones had a purpose.  I was not required to be in every zone, I had options as did every other player.  I could solo, I could group, at various stages of the game one could be faster than the other- but in the end there was a good mix required to level and obtain gear.  

Originally posted by Nanbino
Considering it is a RIFT clone. Expect RIFT problems. Same thing. To many people quit. Small niche that exist are now funneled to end game. Alt's generaly skip dungeons. That leaves tons of abandon dungeons early on (or just key ones that most people keep dungeon finder spamming, but never properly geared so wipe)... *shrug* Still paying a sub price? Sucker.

I always did the dungeon on all 4 characters.  They provide a skill point.. a very easy to obtain skill point- and the potential to get a piece of gear (even though it will not last very long as far as an upgrade).

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