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All Posts by johnjec

All Posts by johnjec

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16 posts found

I've been reading a lot lately about the price of admission to play an average MMO. I do recall some years ago that when an MMO planned on charging a subscription fee, the initial cost would be a little lower than say, the average single player game. I remember some being around $40 and maybe a few as high as $50.

I will be playing The Elder Scrolls Online (TESO) and have additionally opted for the 5 day early entry along with this Imperial race that I don't plan on using anyway. I think I just wanted to get in as early as possible. The charge came through on my bank account today for $79.99. It is stunning to think that in addition to that $80,I will also spend another $15 a month for the benefit of continued play. Maybe even a few perks at the cash shop as well. Who knows.

I'm fairly certain that this is not only the most I have ever paid but also the most money ever charged to start and play an MMO 5 days early;  and that is with or without a subscription fee. Some, (maybe most) would consider this wasteful spending. For the price I paid, I was also entitled to play the imperial race but I have no desire to do so. Honestly, I paid the price because I am psyched about this game and want to start yesterday! Maybe that is what Zenimax is counting on.

I have heard all of the hype. The game has been in development for over 5 years and it's predicted to be one of the worst launches of all time. I've read about phasing, and graphics, the API, the paywall, the cash shop and the list goes on. I can only speak for myself but I paid $80 for two main reasons. The first is my long term love affair with their past RPG's most notably Morrowind, Oblivion, and of course Skyrim. Yes, I realize this is Zenimax or more formally, Zenimax Online Studios. I read on the wiki that this is also their first project ever. Even so, I know they have some great developers and they are backed by the largest video company in the USA.

The second reason is that despite all of the negative hype, I believe this game will succeed. It may not launch perfect. In fact, I'm certain there will be issues but I'm in it for the long run so honestly, $80 and $15 a month is worth it to me for a game I will be playing for awhile. The only other MMO on my radar is EQ Next and that is a ways out and so for the foreseeable future I will be spending all of my available time adventuring with friends and killing enemies. Good times.

On an unrelated note, many are saying that this game will go free to play within a year. So then, if the largest video game company in the USA cannot produce and support an MMO that can compete against WoW, then does it make it impossible? I just wonder.

Given the amount of time this game has been in development, it should launch better than any MMO before it. While we all would like to think that they have some secret version that is going to rock the MMO world, we are going to see issues. Likely they will be the same issues we saw during the last beta weekend.  Even still, I will be on my white horse navigating the phasing issues, login issues, NPC stuck issues, etc. Why? Because it's ESO.

On an unrelated note, I have a question. Why didn't Bethesda create the MMO themselves?

Originally posted by RebelScum99

...said nobody...ever.  We've seen what happens when there is no trinity in an MMO.  And it wasn't good.  I expect after EQN flubs this up, other MMOs will use the GW2 and EQN failures as a reason to develop a Better trinity system, rather than scrapping it altogether.  

Trinity isn't the problem, and never has been.  The first dev that figures out a way to improve it rather than get rid of it altogether, will have a hit on their hands.  

 

+1

 
I thought of one more example that I wanted to bring up. You know we blame WoW and even EQ2 for the dumbing down of the original gaming experience but it has gone well beyond even those days. Let me quickly illustrate. When i started playing WoW and EQ2 I still had to have a second screen available to look up how to finish particular quests. Some were actually challenging. Granted they were not EQ but they were still challenging. Fast forward to today. I started playing Neverwinter Online about 1 week ago. I hit 60 last night and I wasn't trying to hurry. How many times did I have to ask someone for help or look up a strategy to get past a certain point? A big donut hole! The quests have no body to them. Hack and slash, pop a potion, hack and slash, etc. It is no wonder why people are drawn to the professions because it's the only thing that actually takes time to do and will provide the gamer some sense of accomplishment. It's so frickin sad! Please, will someone in the industry listen and grow a set and build us something that doesn't insult our intelligence?
 
Originally posted by Novusod

Have MMORPGS become too Easy? Yes, YES, and absolutely YES. Where was this article ten yes ago when the dumbing down tend first started. Reading this article now is like shutting the barn door after the horses ran away.

 

I would like to see a game that is so hard you can't even get to the level cap without decent social skills. Game developers often only think in terms graphics, numbers, experience gain, and damage ratios. That is fine when you are making a single player game but in a MMO there is a social puzzle as well. The problem starts with player characters being so powerful they can solo everything to the point there was no need to interact with other people. Design niche classes again so players can't do much on their own and have to party together to get things done. After a decade of instant gratification gamers actually need to be socialized again. We don't need gear checks or even skill checks. Games need socialization checks. Putting up a socialization check is akin to putting a huge sign up that reads: No TROLLS beyond this point.

 

Take the Everquest Epic for example. No anti-social TROLL ever got their Epic because no one would help a ninja-looter or someone who mouthed in public chat. Committing to do the EPIC quests required a large time investment and lot of trust between different people working together to help ONE person get an update. Reputations mattered as much or even more than gear did. That is what is missing from modern "easy" MMOs reputation and social standing doesn't matter anymore. There has to be trust that the friend would reciprocate the action and help you when your turn came. WoW on the other hand is populated by the worst of the worst of the XBOX live crowd. Foul mouthed little 14 year olds or adults acting like 14 year olds with no manors get decked out in full purple gear because the game is so easy and rewards their anti-social behavior.

 

Please stop catering to the instant gratification crowd and make socialization games again.

Very well put sir.

 

Very well written article and clearly gets to the heart of the matter. Here's the thing though. Most are not going to understand what you are writing about because they never played EQ. They never experienced real death. They never lied dead in the middle of a mob infested region hoping and praying that someone would rez them and get them the hell  out of there. I have never felt the sense of accomplishment that I felt in those early games. Only one question remains now. When we say that we want a real experience today, do we really mean it? Will we be able to deal with losing our life or maybe even a level? We have fostered such an environment of spoon fed gaming that I don't know if we can ever go back to reality. What a shame.
Let me ask this. Where does a rookie start? Is there a site that offers all of the information I will ever need or does that not exist? When I start the game, am I turly aone? Like me against the world until I ally with someone? Just want to know if there is somewhere I can go to learn before actully embarking aimlessly. Thanks.
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by johnjec

I'll be honest. that is what has kept me out. I did get the nerve to try it one day but just getting the game setup and figure out takes a huge commitment of time and energy. I picture myself as a rookie who has been given a small ship with the whole universe to contend with. It has kept me out thus far,

well you're not wrong. that's exactly how you start.

 

coming from WoW I thought I'd hate it. i was sure I'd hate it. yet for months this happened?

 

someone asks for a cool feature in an MMO. I think "this is awesome, let's see replies".

 

each topic had a "doesnt really exist, maybe eve online is closest".

 

so i did the trial. Still thinking I'd hate it. No shield, no sword, hell no character. 2 days into my 15 day trial I was subbed.

 

They said "do the tutorial". Maybe i should have...but I didn't want to quest. I can quest in WoW. No, I wanted to mine. So I went on a mining spree for a week. 3 years later i'm still mining. It's not all I'm doing but its my #1 activity. I mine, build things, sell things, watch pvp'ers break them and come looking for more. It's awesome. meanwhile i sit back all cozy and safe making a fortune.

 

thinknig about some ORE mining lasers...there just arent that many ways to pimp out a mining ship. I need a way to tell he who eventually kills my mining ship that "yes, I'm that rich".

 

So you are not really into PVP but still enjoy the game? Very cool. I seem myself doing something similar. I love mining, gathering, etc.

And even better if I can make money at it.

 

"EVE seems way too "Hardcore" to me. ;/"

 

I'll be honest. that is what has kept me out. I did get the nerve to try it one day but just getting the game setup and figure out takes a huge commitment of time and energy. I picture myself as a rookie who has been given a small ship with the whole universe to contend with. It has kept me out thus far, BUT reading this thread is changing me. It is still a vast undertaking but this is not an MMO of pre teen geeks grounded for the weekend. These are real people who want a bigger challenge than killing 10 tigers and bringing the fur back to Eloise.

 

Thanks for all of the replies. In reading these posts there are two things that become apparent. First, when it comes to MMO's and PVP, I always picture a guy with a sword jumping over me, bunny hopping around trying to kill me. I don't think that is what EVE is about. I get the impetion that decisions have to be well thought out and personality does matter. Secondly, I also get the impretion that you guys are not 12 and 14 years old. Instead of being barraged my meaningless antics, it seems there is a level of maturity in this community. I'm also thinking that if there are indeed particular people in the game that control vast areas of space and wealth, it may also stand to reason that these people are probably a cut above the rest in real life. Is this possible? Jut my .02

I think people say they want easy but don't end up staying when the content is too difficult. If a game came out like EQ with persistent death but with all new content but the same difficulty level, I think everyone ( or most everyone) would complain about it. I don't think people like it hard but I don't think they like it easy either. They want to be rewarded for acheiving something but the vast majority will only work so hard for that prize. If there had been a middle of the road button, I would have probably had to take that if I was honest with myself.

Eve and Secret Garden are about the only two MMo's that I have not played yet. I was reading a post tonight about MMO's that people used additional accounts to play and EVE was overwhelmingly the most popular for multiple accounts.

So what is it about that game that is so intriguing? I haven't played SWTOR either. I haven't played any space games but I also read about people who loved SWG as well. Unfortunately that game I guess is no longer available. Even though I don't like space games, I may try EVE just simply because it seems like people do play and stay for multiple months.

Originally posted by thorwood

I played and enjoyed EQ, LoTRO and Rift. I am still playing RIft daily.

I also had a lot of fun playing City of Heroes (CoH).  You might want to give it a try. 

I am not sure how the CoH graphics will look on today's computers as it is a few years since I played. It is a fun game that  allows people who are different levels to group and temporarily change their levels so they can still have fun as a group.  The dungeon instances, within certain constraints, dynamically change the encounter to match the chosen level of difficulty, player levels and number of players in a group.  For most dungeons, any combination of classes will work.

If you are as unco-ordinated as I am, learning to use some of the super powers can be a good laugh too.  I felt like a novice super boy  in a movie. I never thought I would like a super hero game, but the developers did a good job in translating the super hero concept into an online game.

I am currently looking for a new PvE game where you have that sense of adventure as you explore a new world.

You know, Rift was the only MMO that I played only to level 20. Aside from the actual Rifts, there didn't seem to be much difference between Rift and WoW. Perhaps I was wrong. Sounds like you are still enjoying Rift. Maybe it's worth a second look.

What do you guys actually think about EVE? Is it challenging, compelling, addictive? Is is one of the few MMO's that I haven't played and so it does kind of stick in the back of my mind that it might be something that WoW is not. Engaging.

Maybe I will check out Rift for a week or so. If it doesn't work out, there is always 11/11/11 right?

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

Given the list is fairly complete on major PVE oriented MMOs, I'd suggest looking into The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion which is a single player game.  When it was new it was fairly tough on hardware requirements but most any system now will play it and look good.  Depth of gameplay and storyline is decent.  Graphics are good, controls will be a bit unusual because of the first person perspective, but one you get used to them the environment is nicely immersive.

The list I mentioned was only MMO's but yes, I have been throught he single player several time including Oblivion and the original Baulders Gate which I absolutely loved. I am looking very forward to 11/11/11 but still, there is something about MMO's that is so appealing.

I have to tell you, a long time ago, I loved MMO's. I would spend days leveling or camping stormfeather or all kinds of crazy stuff because it became my world. Not so much anymore. Here is a list of the games I have played and come back to"

 

EQ

WoW

EQ2

LOTRO

AOC

RIFT

Warhammer Online

 

I have come back to WoW I don't know how many times. Next would be EQ2 which I check in with every so often. It just seems like they have lost there fun' the original excitement they had. When I start a new toon, it just isn't the same. So I have been considering a new MMO. I have never been a sci fi buff but perhaps Star Trek this year. But what about till then. I need a challenge. I also thought about EVE but I don't want something so hard that I will quit and I have heard that the game is mostly PVP based.

Are there any MMO's left that would keep me interested?

 

BTW, I have to say my most favorite game to play with others was D&D when my buddies would come over and we had a DM who would take us through these elaborate dungeons and we would have to figure out what to do in situations and then roll the die to determ ine what would happen. I realize it's simplistic but graphics for me are such a small part of the game. I was going to try out minecraft but I couldn't get it running properly as it would slow down to a crawl. I think that may have been a good one to try out though.

Been playing since EQ1 came out. What was that 1980 something? I am burnt out though and looking for something new. I have not played a Star Wars MMO. Thinking about it. I do see myself playing in anotehr 10 years though. Something about community that you just can't get in any other game.

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