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All Posts by LeegOfChldrn

All Posts by LeegOfChldrn

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355 posts found
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Ichmen
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
Originally posted by nariusseldon

Simple.

The minimum entrance fee to make even a decent MMO is high. You have to have server, back-end, game client and so on. So you need at least millions, if not 10s of millions to get have a prayer.

The initial investment is too high for small investors.

Plus, the risk is high. There are much BETTER options (like single player games) for small, independent developers.

This actually isn't true.

There are people who have developed MMORPG's (albeit crappy ones, or unpopular ones) for free or relatively low cost (< a few thousand).

If you don't believe me, there are actually MMORPG's made using engines like TORQUE or UNITY, with placeholder graphics sold by said company, and they actually are active MMORPG's.

 

You don't need any money to make any game. You need the money to hire people to make it for you, make it quickly, make it with flash graphics, do complex mathmatics for physics, e

QFT. 

the quoted post might have been correct in the 1990's when hardware was still weak and "pricy" but today, joe blow down the street and pick up a server cheaply and host a "minecraft" style MMO they made them selves no problem. 

there are loads of "free" game eng's out there if they lack the ability or knowledge to make their own.  as for graphics.. meh dwarf fortress is still popular and its what.. 8bit graphics if that.. take that game make it an mmo and bam no problems. 

server hosting is also really bloody cheap, a quality ISP can sell you a company IP for as little as 100 bucks which generally is more then enough for starting up a mmo, after words you just upgrade :/ unless you live in an area that hasnt heard of cable or fiber optics... in which case.. MOVE then make an mmo lol.

 

haven and hearth was built by 2 collage guys, hosted them selves (if i understand their history correctly) now they are making salem.. i really do not think they had millions in the bank to make HnH.  making WoW wouldnt cost millions either, paying the staff maybe..

 LeegOfChldrn is totally correct, you only need money to pay people to make it for you lol.

well thats only haft truth - sure, you can make mmorpg like haven & hearth or wurm for very low money .... but then dont count on having more that several thousands players at most.

if you want to have some semi-decent population, you need money and a lot of them

Supporting Evidence: Minecraft is only played by 1003 people, until it upgraded to Crysis graphics and THEN became popular. Right? Right? Wrong.

Everything you just said was a lie.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

I thought it was just me but the more and more people I talk to about it the more I see a growing trend.

This amazes me.

Instead of relying on you actual experience, reality: the facts... you rely on "people I talk to about it".

First off, you do not SEE the growing trend. What you saw, from what you stated, was the opposite. Very helpful people, followed by a bout of not-so-helpful people. Instead you rely on what you HEAR. What others tell you. What others affirm that is already in your mind as possible. What you SEE, according to your post, really seems to speak as the opposite of what you hear. The reason I am defining SEE and HEAR as different is incredibly important as what you say you saw is actual experiences that can make up facts, reality. What you hear is simply what you hear-- something that can easily be false, exagerated, or partially informed or entirely misinformed.

Then you discuss the topic with people. When you bring up a topic like this, it multiplies the "doomsday perspective". One man says "Are people more selfish today than they used to be?" Everyone will chip in and as predictable as the sun rises, they will agree and perhaps share a story. This snowball effect is actually PART of the "doomsday perspective" as people share their recent unfortunate doomsday events, having others immediately affirming their false perspective.

 

I hate to be so blunt and offensive, but it WAS just you. The people you talked to about it? It WAS just them. It's NOT a growing trend. People's natural doomsday perspective however, is very, very common.

Unless of course you're right, and the world is getting more violent, with heavy rises in crime, selfishness, evil, etc. However, reality and history beg to differ as modern society is far more civilized than EVER before. More tolerant, more accepting, less violent, less aggressive, fewer deaths, etc. The fact we don't openly attack other towns to raid them, commonly slaughter each other en mass, and battle our slaves to the death in arena combat...that's significantly less violent than in the past. Yet history also shows us that the human race, people, have not changed even a bit in thousands of years, if ever. We are still selfish and generous, still brutal and peaceful, still good and evil, lost and found, low in self esteem, and for most people high in selfish thought and full of ignorance.

What kind of person would treat people worse simply because of how many there are? I don't look kindly at people with "situational ethics  and I do not mean to be offensive or elitist about it just blunt. (oh wait, I entirely do, because I consider these people lesser human beings that are full of s***.)

I value integrity, consistency, and ethical treatment of others. I will respect people who are consistent in their treatment of others, and value them when they have integrity.

 

This entire thread and everyone within it has what I call "doomsday perspective". This is something I find typical in people as they mature, age, or simply view through an altered perspective from their past. "Back in my day, people were nicer to one another." Sorry 22 year old gramps, people really haven't changed that much since 5, 10, even 50 years ago.

I do not go into great detail to know WHY people become doomsdayers, but for whatever reason they do. It's entirely their perspective though, as human beings rarely change, especially in less than a decade. WoW's initial release isn't that old. Hell, even UO's release isn't that old. Not when you're talking about an entire culture changing.

 

Doomsday Perspective is that false reality, likened to a doomsday in religion where "During the end times, things will get worse." Instead of relying on facts and real information (such as reports which state a DECREASE in violence, criminal activity, etc.) people instead rely on their...well, I honestly don't want to say "memory" because I rely on my memory, and my memory tells me nothing has changed.

In WoW, there are actually a ridiculous amount of people who are willing to help you. If you ask for help, you will literally get about 10 public insults by nasty, greedy nerds bubbling with excitement at their new-found prey. Meanwhile, you will receive private messages from 10x that amount asking what you need. I think "doomsday" players, especially in highly populated games like WoW or MMORPG-releases, will see the insults and mixed with the painful ouchies which damage their fragile ego, cry doomsday.

 

The more populated games actually have MORE people willing to help you, not less. MORE people willing to go a ridiculous length or give you a ridiculous amount of gold/help than ever before. That's because there's MORE of a chance those types are online, MORE of them playing the game total, MORE generosity, MORE assistance, MORE kind players. WoW's casual "even grandma plays" atmosphere also breeds people who take the game far less seriously, knowing that 100 gold isn't really that much money, especially to a level 80, and even if it was it doesn't matter because it's fake money they don't need. Many players find pleasure and entertainment in helping others, so they actually look forward to those asking for assistance. Just the same as many players find pleasure and entertainment in belittling others because they are sour people or immature youngsters looking to masturbate their ego or troll more. After all, trolling is fun. And to those who aren't sour individuals, so is helping others.

 

It would be a sad, sad human being (if you would want to call them that) who is only nice to people when the population is low. I honestly would rather someone be a total a-hole than to be someone with "situational ethics" void of integrity but not void of kindness. (Kindness without integrity or values is an asinine concept IMO, as it's very dishonest and preferably rejected, at least by me.) Although those who annoy me the most of all are those who CLAIM to be good, generous people, but are lying to boost their ego as they have "A rule" that they cannot help someone. I once met a max level who said "I'd love to help and want to, but I can't. I have a rule against giving money to others. It's just a rule I have." I could only laugh at their long-winded reply. What a liar, deceiving themselves into thinking they are generous. The type of person who wants to be a jerk AND boost their ego that they're a Saint.

 

Kick me while I'm down or lend me a hand; don't say you're reaching out with a boot up my ass.

Nothing has changed

I have been theory-crafting and working hard (it's an extremely difficult task) to come up with a good combat system. One that encourages balance, enough where a skilled newbie can beat a unskilled veteran, but a skilled veteran can fend off multiple opponents and win.

 

Besides getting rid of levels entirely because of how stupid I think it is when a level 80 can breathe on a Level <70 and kill them in one shot with auto-attack, I thought about progression and power increase (which kindof is a requirement in a MMORPG).

The idea is that more powerful characters are only more defensive against multiple opponents. In such a way that in a 1v5 (A level 5 vs five Level 1's) the Level 5 can defend so well it is almost as if it is a 1v1, and at the end of the 1v5 when the Level 5 is only 20% life, in a completely even fight (trade blows, no random chance) there would only be one Level 1 left (at 100% life) as the Level 5 is 500% the strength of a Level 1. Meaning that 20% of the Level 5's life should be 100% the life of one Level 1, although they all have the same HP bc they do the same dmg (but the Level 5's math is better defense).

 

Power 1 - The power of 1 character, 1 player, 1 NPC.

Power 5- The power of 5 characters, 5 NPC's, 5 "Power 1" players

Power 5- Also the power of a "Power 3" and "Power 2" duo.

 

A system where your Level, 1-5, determines how powerful you are. As we all may assume, the math isn't as simple in game terms as 1 + 1 + 1 = 3. Often in a video game, the level 3 can rofl-stomp the three level 1's with 90% health remaining. The advantages of a level rarely add up, and instead MULTIPLY. So a level 5 in THEORY should be as strong as 5 level 1's, but instead can take on 20 level 1's due to multiplication of ability power and HP mathematics.

 

My idea is that a hit is a hit- it's lethal. If a newbie hits you with a sword, it hurts just the same as if a veteran do so. A sword cuts you, and although strength may determine the severity of the damage, the fact remains that in real life: If you are stabbed by a baby or stabbed by the Hulk, you are mother @#$@#ing STABBED b****!"

Yet what do veterans have over newbies? In most war, it's actually how to survive. Granted a master swordsman can probably disarm a farmer with a pitchfork rather easily and kill them quickly, it's more about survivability in warfare. Veteran soldiers in modern armies know how to survive. In WW2, a veteran soldier didn't necessarily mean a sharpshooter level of developed skill. Instead, it meant they knew how to survive. They knew what got you killed. They knew what worked to kill.

 

So instead of players getting increasingly more damaging as they level up, I thought it might resolve the problems by making the player significantly more DEFENSIVE instead. Some mathematics that I was hoping would help resolve the problem of multiplying power.

 

 

Something like....

Level 5 Veteran-- Can dodge up to 5 attacks in a single "round". In a 1v1, this is identical to a Level 1's ability to dodge 1 attack in a single "round" given the idea that a player can only attack once in a "round". Yes the Level 5 can dodge 4 more attacks after he dodges the first, but his 1v1 enemy will never strike more than once, making this bonus useless.

Parry Rating Against: If attacked by two characters, LvL 1 and LvL 2, the total Parry % for each attack is (% equivalent of LvL3) ). So a level 1 + 2 making two attacks is equivalent % to blocking a single level 3's attack. It would be beneficial to have multple players (even if weaker) bc portions of an attack can be inflicted instead of entirely blocked, although it should eventually calcualte to be the same dmg over time either way.

So A level 5 would be equal to fight five level 1's, two level 2's and one lvl 1, or a level 4 and level 1.

Or a level 5 vs five level 1's would be a 1v5, but would play out like a 5v5.

 

Yet make it to where a Level 5 fighting a SINGLE Level 1 only has a slight advantage (will most likely win, but it's not guaranteed and still risky business. Like a maximum of 90% chance of winning, a minimum of 60% win chance. Normal is 50/50.) Perhaps by making it to where a player is more powerful when higher level facing multiple characters, but isn't anywhere near as powerful when facing a single character.

More power, more experience, teaches more survivability against multiple opponents, but not much difference in single opponents. This would allow players to be very powerful in large scale warfare or defensive manuevers (Only one player must defend a tower while his allies are elsewhere, giving the defender an advantage in PvP objectives).

 

Obviously I probably am not thinking too hard and dont foresee the (obvious?) problems so I figured I could throw the idea here or see if anyone has a superior way to handle a game where newbies can still have an advantage fighting against a veteran if they play right.

My apologies if this idea doesnt make sense or isn't coherent. It was hard explaining it and I might have even explained it incorrectly due to being tired.

Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by Axehilt

Humans play games for skillful competition.  To prove out and hone skills.  The brain is rewarded with pleasure during the process of learning, and this trait of our biology is an evolutionary advantage (which is why some animals also play.)

Game depth is a measure of how much learning a game offers, and by extension how much pleasure a game is capable of providing.

Most people understand Time Investment to be a game mechanic devoid of depth. No skill is exhibited, nothing can be learned.  It's shallow.

It seems like players with the weakest concept of skill are the ones who have the hardest time understanding this. Instead of understanding that skill is composed of decision-making (strategy/tactics) and execution (twitch), they assume the word only refers to twitch skill.

This is why, IMO, the term "twitch game" gets abused and inserted into straw man arguments(see OP) ad nauseum.  Even the most twitch based games require considerable, but speedy decision making to be effective. 

One earlier poster posted a Street Fighter match as an example.  It would be hard to argue against that being considered one of the most extreme examples of twitch gaming there is.  But yet, so much of being successful in it is about decision making.  Watch the video and you'll see it. 

I, myself can execute moves faster than my avatar can deliver them, so there's no doubt that on a pro level, this is also the case for probably anyone considered a pro.  What this means, IMO, is that even in a game like SF3, your winning or losing STILL hinges largely on decision making; it's just that the process occurs so quickly that it doesn't seem like thought.

Whether you're at liberty to take .02 seconds to make a decision or an hour, it still requires thought to win consistently.

It's weird that people assume this, given that those same people tend to understand that Chess requires skill (it lacks an execution component, and is entirely about decision-making.)

Granted pattern recognition/learning/mastery isn't the only reason players play games, but even in the other reasons players play (socializing or expressing themselves) there's often an element of learning.  For example, players who've run guilds discover that there's some overlap between that skill set and real-life managerial skills.  And I don't think you can have a social exchange with another person which isn't some form of learning.

Mostly to OP:  I personally only have issues with artificial advancement in PvP.  Cases where PvP occurs between players where  some players have 100 HP but others have 200HP because they're higher level or have some form of Pay or Grind 2 win gear.  To me, this is not enjoyable PvP as a winner or a loser.

A system where you build your character from the same "point pool" as another player that grants certain skills/abilities/stats depending on how you set them up is perfectly fine, if not quite possibly the potential system for the greatest PvP ever.  I'm all for a system where setting up your character to perfectly compliment your playstyle gives you an edge against someone who can't/doesn't.

Such PvP can be deep, and doesn't require artificial advancement bonuses to be so.

 

I agree entirely that great PvP is balanced PvP.

 

I actually have the most fun in balanced PvP. Why? I'd love to share...

 

1) If you win, you know it's bc you have "Player Skill" (yes, that non-existent self-defined quality)

2) Challenge. Typically skilled players (with "Player Skill") are also skilled at min/maxing, playing OP classes/skills, exploiting OP game mechanics, etc. This MULTIPLIES with good players. A good player isn't just good, they're great. A balanced game where a player cannot use level 50 bandages at level 10 or pop a +500 Agility potion at level 1 granting them 1000% crit chance, is a game with CHALLENGE. When a player is limited the most to be UNABLE to min/max (balance helps to lessen the ability to exploit game balance) it provides the most challenge to that player.

3) Teamwork becomes more important, more rewarded. Why? #4...

4) Even Bad Players are rewarded for balanced PvP.

 

 

People would most often argue that when you allow for players to win based on level or gear, it is unfair because Player Skill doesn't matter. I am stating that this is entirely false.

 

Here is their argument:

 

BAD PLAYER has 2000 HP

SKILLED PLAYER has 1000 HP

Despite SKILLED PLAYER's superior "player skill" he loses bc of EZ-mode gear grind QQ.

 

 

Here is MY argument: This is reality.

BAD PLAYER is bad, so he only has 200 HP.

SKILLED PLAYER is skilled, so he has 2000 HP.

SKILLED PLAYER would win in an even matchup, but not only is he a better player but he understands the metagame better, knows how to win, and knows the benefits of potions, items, gear, and levels.

 

 

 

PvP games which do not provide pure balance actually "Snowball".

Bad players are bad a using their skills, perhaps because many use their mouse to click their abilities in PvP. These same players also have bad gear, no real understanding of compettive play, etc.

Good players are skilled in the first place, but also understand how to get the best Crit %, maximize their HP, and they know that Intellect is superior to Spirit no matter what the game tells you. They know the real math, they know how to win, and so these advantages "Snowball". First starts the superior skill from years of competitive gaming. This rolls up with better gear, talent spec, ability understanding, metagame exploit, and soon their snowball is an avalanche compared to the bad player.

 

 

 

 

So I believe firmly that balanced PvP (equal HP, equal level or no levels) is perfect bc it BENEFITS both the skilled player AND the bad player.

 

I am actually impressed by all of the respones.

Thank you everyone! Great reads all around!

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Simple.

The minimum entrance fee to make even a decent MMO is high. You have to have server, back-end, game client and so on. So you need at least millions, if not 10s of millions to get have a prayer.

The initial investment is too high for small investors.

Plus, the risk is high. There are much BETTER options (like single player games) for small, independent developers.

This actually isn't true.

There are people who have developed MMORPG's (albeit crappy ones, or unpopular ones) for free or relatively low cost (< a few thousand).

If you don't believe me, there are actually MMORPG's made using engines like TORQUE or UNITY, with placeholder graphics sold by said company, and they actually are active MMORPG's.

 

You don't need any money to make any game. You need the money to hire people to make it for you, make it quickly, make it with flash graphics, do complex mathmatics for physics, e

Originally posted by corpusc

the fact you put me on (or were about to) an ignore list in the first place pretty much proves the defense mechanism theory to hold water.   a lot of people have aggravated me on this forum, but i haven't for a second considered blocking them out so that i didn't have to see their dissention.

pardon me for not wanting to spend 10+ minutes writing you a novel, when a few sentences gets the idea across.  the heart of the matter here is really very simple.  its your defense mechanism thats requiring you to build up these monumental posts in order to try avoid the simple truth.

you can't explain it away.  no matter how many pages you write.

and your psych degree means next to nothing (if even true).  it means you went to school and ticked off the boxes.  that's about it.  my father had one (just one example of several people i know) and he has major psychological problems.

I don't think you understand why I am placing you on ignore...

 

I am doing so to protect you and do the right thing. Keeping you off ignore will only encourage you to reply more often to me. Each reply you make is exttremely enjoyable to me. They are filled with irrational assumptions, pointless trolling, and possible (hilarious) projection.

A few sentences can get an idea across. Unfortunately, you are getting no idea across by childishly insulting others. Saying "Trololol this guy is incoherent and so dumb!" is not an argument. I am sorry if you think it resembles any form of intellectual discourse.

Brushing off my psychology degree while proving you are uneducated on what you are name-dropping (Defense Mechanism, Ego, Psychological Problems, etc.) only goes to encourage me to ignore you for your own protection before I start sharing your posts with my friends for additional laughter.

I would beg to differ that my degree means "next to nothing" as it educated me to NOT do exactly what you're doing. Labeling people irrationally with disorders without clear evidence. It, along with my career experience, have taught me to identify people with potential disorders or problems with denial, projection, arrogance, etc.

 

My final words to you are this: I never once denied or even discussed that I do or don't have "major psychological problems". The reason I stated my degree (and the lack of yours) had nothing to do with proving my own sanity or your delusions. For those of us who base our view entirely in reality, it is quite obvious that the reason I stated my degree (and the lack of yours) is excluslively based on your name-dropping of commonly used phrases of (not even) pop-psychology. Something less educated than what you might find in a teeny bopper magazine's psych stereotypes.

I believe the term "name-dropping" is correct, as it is quite clear you do not know what you are talking about. Not just because of the clear lack of education in psychology, but the simple fact you use pop-terms in a way that educated people (in the field of psychology) find off.

I have, however, had experience with people similar in action before. Those who often, without any real evidence, void of logical conclusions to the assertion, claim others are [insert pop terms] while displaying a clear lack of understanding of said terms (and why a real psychologist would never say it like that, or use those terms, can be symptoms of one of many psychological issues, problems, or even a disorder. Especially when consistent through the person's communication, when they aren't even using pop terms. You work long enough with people who have disorders and mental defects and you can begin to readily identify the POSSIBILITY.

 

My final paragraph being: Note that us professionals only talk about "possibilities" and do not actually label people with ultimate certainty with a 100% accurate diagnosis with limited information. Quite the opposite of what you just did--- labeling me with specific terms, specific conditions, in a very specific way, with 100% confidence while provided with very little information about me. Us professionals are fully ready to tell ourselves the person we are identifying as POSSIBLY mental is in fact entirely plausible to be a perfectly healthy person-- just an odd one, or more realistically: an obvious troll trolling to troll.

Originally posted by corpusc

ends up putting me on an ignore list after diagnosing me as mentally ill.    8)

Not before responding to you THREE times ;)

This disappointment over what made "Pro" players Pro, is also what made me realize why I was so good at games when I play them. It's not even that I naturally exploit the metagame and quickly go online to learn the strategies that min/max exploit the mathematics of the game to give me an advantage. I already knew I did that.

What I realized is that the reason I got so many kills or do so well in games is because I know how to form superior strategies and focus on map control over anything else. Map Control is far far greater than accuracy, headshots, etc. I'm actually not much of a headshot person unless I'm sniping.

 

By Map Control, I include even those moments when you simply step backwards to increase the range between you and the enemy, predicting which door they will enter through (or putting the cursor between the two) and knowing that based on that range alone, you will win the skirmish even if they are better players than you, because the game advantage and physics / mathematics are in your favor significantly.

Controlling your opponent is more important than aiming at them. Coincidentally, this made me an even better player now that I know to focus on these strategies as opposed to trying to improve my aim or reflexes. Quite the opposite of your proposed "sore loser" version of myself who sucks at video games and uses defend mechanisms to protect my fragile ego and apparent...low self esteem? Trolololool...

Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Banquetto
Sounds like the OP got 0wned and got butthurt about it.

 

truth.

"defense mechanism"

....is what that extremely incoherent original post is all about.  its about the worst opener post i've seen on this site, and that's really saying something

...snip....

 Everyone else here (well, besides Banquetto and one other who are obviously a childish trolls spewing 1-line insults in fail attempts to be witty) seems to clearly understand the topic being discussed and many here actually follow my logic, however complex it may seem to you.

 

Typically incoherent posts don't get replied to because no one understands them. This thread has thousands of views and quite a lot of posts and attention. This would not be so if people did not understand the OP.

you thinks posts need to be coherent in order to get responses? lol

also, an at least large portion (if not the majority) of people here are arguing AGAINST you, and yet your defense mechanism has you claiming that its just me and one other guy.  lol  say what you want to make yourself feel good.  thats the whole issue here.  its why you refuse to acknowledge skills.   8)  you're so sore about losing in games, that you have to try to explain it away to save your ego.

Did it ever occur to you the possibility that the reason someone finds "Pro Play" to be a joke is because they are skilled at games as well and understand what makes a player "Pro"?

When I began looking into "Pro Players" and what made them Pro, I was actually heart brokenly disappointed. I discovered that it wasn't about "Player Skill" or what I felt made me or other people great players. No...it was about min/max exploitation of game mechanics through Long Term Study, creating strategies based off of balance in the game. Disappointing but it was all about "Gaming the System".

I always dreamed it was about fast, accurate twitch reflex aiming and instinctual tactics requiring mental reflexes. Instead, it's mostly about developing specific strategies, constant memory management of game mechanics, and exploiting balance.

 

Pro Players of QUAKE do not excel at being the fastest headshotter in the universe or the quickest thinking tactician. They excel at map control, memory management, game knowledge, and exploitation of other's mistakes of memory management and game knowledge. Listen to the videos and hear them as they count down their mental timers and explain why they lost was entirely because of a single deny of a crucial map choke point, power-up, etc. The last one I watched literally said, "Whenever he got that power-up, it didnt matter what I did, he won." because the power-up made his armor high enough to where they could shoot at each other and it was 100% guaranteed that he'd lose bc the character, not the player, was significantly better. It's all simple mathematics and exploitation of mathematics.

In fact it was quite sad for me to see that a lot of Pro Players spam bullet streams the milli-second they turn a corner because they assume, based on experience and knowledge, the player will be there. When they do it so predictably that they often fire at nothing because they werent there, I realize that it isnt about quick reflexes, it's about predicting the enemy based on consistent strategies based entirely on specific min/max features (like contrlolling a power-up or denying extra bonuses) based on experience playing the specific game.

Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Banquetto
Sounds like the OP got 0wned and got butthurt about it.

 

truth.

"defense mechanism"

....is what that extremely incoherent original post is all about.  its about the worst opener post i've seen on this site, and that's really saying something

...snip....

 Everyone else here (well, besides Banquetto and one other who are obviously a childish trolls spewing 1-line insults in fail attempts to be witty) seems to clearly understand the topic being discussed and many here actually follow my logic, however complex it may seem to you.

 

Typically incoherent posts don't get replied to because no one understands them. This thread has thousands of views and quite a lot of posts and attention. This would not be so if people did not understand the OP.

you thinks posts need to be coherent in order to get responses? lol

also, an at least large portion (if not the majority) of people here are arguing AGAINST you, and yet your defense mechanism has you claiming that its just me and one other guy.  lol  say what you want to make yourself feel good.  thats the whole issue here.  its why you refuse to acknowledge skills.   8)  you're so sore about losing in games, that you have to try to explain it away to save your ego.

Oh closer inspection, I see you are a 42 year old from TN and not a young kid or young adult fresh out of a Psych 101 course.

I actually now realize that you are probably not trolling me and actually believe what you are saying, leaving me only to believe you might have a few issues that I should not take advantage of by talking to you while laughing at your posts due to the irrational trolling and asinine assumptions within.

My apologies, I actually feel bad laughing at someone who may have a real disability or projection issues, and that isn't something I want to partake in. Sorry, I will do you a favor and place you on ignore so that I will not take advantage of you. I was really looking forward to your reply though :( but treating others who have issues with respect is more important to me (based on my career field) than the potential fun and hilarity that could ensue by allowing myself to be an easy target for them to respond to.

Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Banquetto
Sounds like the OP got 0wned and got butthurt about it.

 

truth.

"defense mechanism"

....is what that extremely incoherent original post is all about.  its about the worst opener post i've seen on this site, and that's really saying something

...snip....

 Everyone else here (well, besides Banquetto and one other who are obviously a childish trolls spewing 1-line insults in fail attempts to be witty) seems to clearly understand the topic being discussed and many here actually follow my logic, however complex it may seem to you.

 

Typically incoherent posts don't get replied to because no one understands them. This thread has thousands of views and quite a lot of posts and attention. This would not be so if people did not understand the OP.

you thinks posts need to be coherent in order to get responses? lol

also, an at least large portion (if not the majority) of people here are arguing AGAINST you, and yet your defense mechanism has you claiming that its just me and one other guy.  lol  say what you want to make yourself feel good.  thats the whole issue here.  its why you refuse to acknowledge skills.   8)  you're so sore about losing in games, that you have to try to explain it away to save your ego.

First, I'd drop the whole "your defense mechanism" thing as you're not a psychologist. I actually have a degree in the field of psychology, and find it quite humorous when young kids or young adults pretend to know what a defense mechanism is.

 

Second, I am not claiming you and TWO other people are against me. I am fully aware of those against me and for me. You and two other people are TROLLING me. Huge difference.

I would stop the act for a second if I were you, and realize that you are not against me. Neither is the person you quoted. People who are against others disagree with reason, logic, and communication. All you and this other guy have done is throw in a troll line to insult me in a very childish and attention-seeking manner.

 

Third, consider yourself now placed on ignore. Your first post was an insult without any argument. Your second post was an arrogant laugh, with statements so illogical and irrational, that I can only assume you are either trolling me or have some kind of delusion when reading my posts.

It's simply amazing that I, someone who top charts quickly in competitive gaming in all genres and typically wins or loses with a very high score, somehow "is so sore about losing in games" that I have to "try to explain it away to save my ego" using "my defense mechanism" (as if there is only one?) lol.

 

Actually on second thought, your posts are so funny to laugh at, I actually think I'll keep you off ignore and continue to respond to your posts :)

So where'd you get your degree in psychology? I got mine from Southern Nazarene University. I actually look foward to your reply, as this is beginning to get fun thanks to my forum Player Skill! ;)

Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by LeegOfChldrn

 

 

 

I am not someone who loses easily in any genre he plays. Why? I have over a decade of hardcore gaming experience. Thousands upon thousands of hours logged in every genre, hundreds of guides, articles, and conversations logged.

 

and yet you proudly admit to initiating a vote to kick a player that was "too skilled" cuz he ruined your fun.  if you had the proper attitude about winning/losing, you would have taken the opportunity to observe the guy and learn from him, instead of getting mad that he was mopping the floor with you.

LOL...this is hilarious.

People play games to have fun. The moment I initiated the vote kick, ALL players on the entire server uninimously voted yes. This is because we all wanted to have fun. We werent competitive pro players looking to get better at a game.

I also certainly wasnt looking to get better at a video game I hadn't played for over a year, which is now dead with only a single server up. There was 1 server with players in it, that's it. It's not like any of us could go elsewhere.

 

I think you might need to take a step back and realize that games are a form of entertainment (a.k.a. for fun) and that perhaps I was the only one experienced enough to know that this guy wasn't just ruining my experience-- but was ruining EVERYONE's, and that if I was right (which I was, from experience) the vote-kick would work.

I made everyone in the server happy, with many people agreeing and thanking me for initiating the kick. We all had a blast. We all had FUN. Instead of trying to become "Pro" or increase our "Player Skill" from a childish kid who mocked people after killing them instantly, we simply kicked this person and had FUN instead.

 

Ruin Fun = Bad

Fun = Good

Proper Attitude = "Can you please leave? You are ruining the game for everyone else."

Improper Attitude = Him = "Trololololol [insult] you just suck trolololol."

Logical Choice = Vote Kick

Unanimous Decision = Success = Justified = Fun for Everyone = Winning (Charlie Sheen)

 

 

 

Finally... as an experience gaming with a very good attitude with respect towards my fellow gamer...

If you are so good that you kill people and turn the tide of the server to the point no one else is having fun, the proper attitude towards winning/losing would be to admit that there is no challenge, find the lack of challenge boring, be respectful of others and quit, and frown that you dont get to play with someone who provides a challenge.

The best I've ever been as a competitive gamer was in Medal of Honor: Allied Assault. I was so good at this game, I would literally pick the most gimped weapon (truly underpowered weapon) and get scores of 60:2. I would purposefully handicap myself but it still didnt matter. The team could be losing and I'd come in, and within a few minutes I'd win the match. It got so bad that when I would die, because it was so rare (I'd literally die once or twice per match, with 60 kills each time) that I'd get angry, "I died? HOW? IM IMMORTAL!!!!!!!!!!!!" The first time I ever experienced anger for dying because I felt I shouldn't be able to die (because it was so rare for me to, because I was so good) I quit the game.

I realized I was ruining everyones game experience. I realized there was no challenge. I realized it was boring me to death. Now as an adult with much improved gaming experience and cognitive skills, many years ago I began to yawn when things get too easy. I never, ever understood those gamers who smurf to Pro Play against Newbies for easy wins. What is the point of playing a video game where winning is 100% guarantee because of how easy the opponent is? There is no point. I believe those players are trolls or do it out of boredom bc they couldnt find anyone to play against. (Even then, I think little of them bc they should just stop playing.)

 

In League of Legends when I smurf, if the enemy team are all REAL newbies and there are no smurfs (rare, as the majority of level 1 players are actually level 30 players, which is WHY I smurf) then I will /surrender and give them the win. What would be the point in playing an unchallenging game? In FPS games, if I have won the last 3 matches so easily with really high scores, I will start goofing off, "trying something new" or attempting to be more supportive to the team (which in most FPS games is not as good for the team as aggressive action like taking flags or killing everyone).

I actually have quite a good attitude towards winning/losing, and I'd vote kick this guy, along with anyone else "so good they ruin everyone's game experience" any day of the week. When I own a server, if someone is doing so good they are ruining the gameplay of EVERYONE, I kick them with an apology and explanation. This is righteous because 1 guy shouldnt ruin the fun of 31 other players. I'd rather him be kicked and 32 people have a challenging match than for him to be the ONLY person having fun while the other 31 cry and get frustrated, wasting their valuable free time.

Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Banquetto
Sounds like the OP got 0wned and got butthurt about it.

 

truth.

"defense mechanism"

....is what that extremely incoherent original post is all about.  its about the worst opener post i've seen on this site, and that's really saying something

I created this thread after reading another thread where someone trolled another member with mockery about "Real Player Skill". I found it humorous, and it reminded me of the pre-release Darkfall forums where massive riots would occur on their forums arguing "Player Skill" and "Difficulty", etc. etc. with all the Epeen-terbation involved.

Butt hurt is what people typically are when they lose. Since I play video games quite a lot I am quite good at them, and thus do not lose very often. If I do, I say "GG".

 

Perhaps the OP is "extremely incoherent" because you are having significant trouble understanding what we are talking about. Everyone else here (well, besides Banquetto and one other who are obviously a childish trolls spewing 1-line insults in fail attempts to be witty) seems to clearly understand the topic being discussed and many here actually follow my logic, however complex it may seem to you.

 

Typically incoherent posts don't get replied to because no one understands them. This thread has thousands of views and quite a lot of posts and attention. This would not be so if people did not understand the OP. I am stating this to help you out, providing evidence that perhaps it is not the OP that is incoherent, but that you fail to grasp the concepts and perhaps should try harder before giving up in frustration and trolling others in failure.

It's just a suggestion though. Fail troll is fail.

I must have not been around when this was all the buzz around these forums.

Must be quite the coincidence/circumstance for me to be around so many MMORPg gamers, discuss so much, and even play WoW and discuss it-- and never have had anyone ever tell me this!

 

LOL, I feel like a man walking around the world for 80 years and just now discovering that Coca Cola exists, because anytime I've ever encountered it someone stood infront of the advertisement or talked during the audio announcement or blocked my access to the Soda isle or people offered me Dr.Pepper instead.

Apparently oblivious to common knowledge due to sheer bad luck :P

Something I have trouble understanding is the dividing line between AAA MMORPG (300+ million budget) and Crappy Cheap Browser MMORPG (if you could even call it a MMORPG).

 

Granted there ARE always "in the works" several niche games for niche markets, but they never seem to get released, project closes, gets abandoned, funding drops, or the vision significantly alters to lose their target market. Perhaps it is the recession? Idk.

 

It really seems as though developers / producers are wanting either a WoW Killer or a crappy Browser cash shop game. There is no middle ground. No remake of UO with better graphics. No DAoC 2. Only one attempt at remaking Everquest.

I am no business tycoon, but I have played Business Tycoon 3 before. Joking aside, from what I typically understand all portions of the market are niche, with the mainstream being labeled the "Mainstream Niche". The term Market Niche was created to slice up the target market (players, gamers) and in this topic then to take players/gamers and place them into smaller sub-groups which can then be developed for. In most busines areas, the niche markets are targeted even though they are smaller. MTV targets YOUTH, LIFETIME targets WOMEN, SPIKE TV targets MEN. These are niche channels which won't compete with primetime television like FOX, but they were created niche for niche. Yet every game producer and developer develops for the WoW crowd, the MOBA crowd, or the Browser crowd. There is no middle ground. There is no Sci-Fi channel, LIFETIME channel, MTV, or Spike TV. It's all **** gold or get off the pot.

It's either "Develop a game to clone the big shot winners, Develop a cheap browser game to milk gamblers dry, fail to develop your A or AA MMORPG without us." A big F*** you to anyone that doesnt want to challenge WoW, League of Legends, or Call of Duty.

 

Where are the mediocre budgets? Where are the small teams hired by AAA companies to produce smaller games?

 

There are certainly enough people to develop a niche game for. Hundreds of thousands of players who want FFA PvP games, and what happens? Darkfall is pretty much it, and that was a FLUKE! Why? The Greek government funded Darkfall. It wasn't real business, it was a Tech Grant. Tax Payers payed for Darkfall.

The permadeath crowd may be small, but a small AAA budget could easily profit if targeting those players. The FFA PvP crowd is huge, but since it's not WoW huge all of that potential profit is ignored.

Projects take as much time and money as the size of the project determines. You don't need to make Call of Duty budget or Crysis graphics to make a video game. AAA companies know this, and still don't want to try to make a MMORPG for the niche crowd. It bewilders me. There's plenty of profit to be made with niche markets made with niche budgets. Yet the corporate parasites who worship the Dollar don't want to milk us dry? Very strange indeed.

I could be wrong, and they are trying, which is the result of all these stupid MMORPG's and beta websites that pop up and never get much buzz. Of course, they all seem to be WoW clones, so that doesn't surprise me. This is innovation? Oi vei!

The problem is the MMO, not the gamer.

 

Unless the gamer are the WoW kiddie carebear-loving pay-to-win ez-mode entitlement crowd!!!!!!!!!!11111111 rawr!!!!!11111111 expletive deleted!!!!!!1111111 lol jk.

 

Seriously, it's 100% the MMO, not the gamer. Not even the bad, stupid, spoiled rotten lazy please-genocide-them gamers who I wish were jocks not nerds. 100% the MMO. 100% the influence of money corrupting innovation.

Very strange that I have never heard of this before on this forum, in game, or in conversation. I assume it's because most people just don't know.

 

WoW in China has no subscription fee. It's free, and people pay by the hour. I am unsure of the article's legitimacy, but I even read that you can buy gold (Although I'm sure you can from players, the article made it sound like you could buy it from Blizzard).

Other countries have different subscriber rates, such as $8/month instead of $15/month.

WoW in China charges at a rage of $0.06 per hour played, and you are only charged with how much you play. (Game time is bought through game cards in 15/30 currency intervals).

 

I'm not sure of the accuracy of the above information, but the article I read was very interesting indeed, as I have never even heard of this. I was actually incredibly surprised I didn't know this.

It really makes you rethink the whole "WoW has 10+ million subscribers" as most of those are from China, and they aren't paying $15/month like I always assumed.

With today's technology, it still doesn't take 100 million to make a MMORPG.

 

Honestly, what it takes is the right people and the right (financial) circumstances AND/OR time.

 

The right people meaning...

 

1) A talented enough programmer

2) A skilled artist (graphics)

2b) Enough money to hire someone for this task or buy models online.

3) A skilled artist (music / sound)

3b) Enough money to hire someone for this task or buy packages online.

4) All of the above to be hard working, devoted, and have either Time * Free Time or Time * Full Time + Money.

 

If someone is working full time, they need circumstance or money to fund their lives until the game profits. If someone is working part time, then they need time to finish.

 

If it's a team working on the game and not a small 2-3 or solo developer...

5) Organization. Leadership. Communication. Work Happiness.

Keeping a team together, especially if they aren't payed (and even if they are) is extremely difficult.

 

 

Even professional teams and businesses close shop due to organizational/leadership difficulty. Imagine how much worse it is for indie teams plagued with even more problems (like the inability to keep a team together for 1+ years development) or gathering talented people for free sharing a vision for the same game.

It's certainly not impossible, but the variables required (Hardwork & Committment OR Money) makes making any game a difficult task.

 

$100 million? No, not really.

Circumstances and perhaps SOME money or extra hard work/time/awesomeness to compensate for no money? Absolutely.

 

 

With all the $100 million developers, I wouldn't be surprised if most of that money was wasted on the needless things businesses waste money on. Not that they can help it (sometimes they cant, and it just takes a ton of money wasted to actually do something) but still.

Technically, you could put a game or MMORPG together with a much much smaller budget than $100 million, and still have it look nice, be plenty full of features, etc. You just have to compromise on some things in favor of others. For example, but toning down the graphics or not having an expensive IP, you can instead use that money to develop more robust features and depth in the game. It may just be A or AA graphics quality instead of AAA, but that AAAA feature list can more than make up for it.

It's not a coincidence that the greatest MMORPG's of our time were made with a fraction of the budget of some of the most expensive failures in the gaming industry.

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