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All Posts by xaritscin

All Posts by xaritscin

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349 posts found

there will always be metagame, its something the community creates, be it because someone found that X or Y class/item/strat is broken or because certain team configurations are supposedly more eficient at certain roles.

those who discover a way to break the game cause a domino effect that makes the rest of the masses to copy the same strategy and end making the game boring for the people who just want to play fun. up to the point the devs have to actually nerf the game for that supposed "balance".

its something that cannot be evaded, like bots, gold sellers or zerging mechanics. metagame is one of the banes of modern gaming society and i doubt we will ever see a game where there's no min/max elitist asshats of any kind.

well look on the bright side, you can always form a group/guild with friends or people like-minded and try to do it without recurring to the LFG system.

 

 

Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by xaritscin
Originally posted by scorpex-x

I have tried warframe and destiny, they are both mmo fps titles but compared to an mmorpg they are incredibly shallow.

 

Why have no companies made an mmorpg, but with an fps engine?

because you cannot make a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Plagin Game out of a First Person Shooter engine.......

you can however, copy the mechanics of an FPS and put them into an MMORPG. FPS games are shallow by default, they dont have much variation in their inner workings.

1. you play in first person view

2. you have fast paced combat with tactics based around the terrain

3. you take control of vehicles or strategic structures (Halo, Dust 514?)

4. its mostly PvP in battlegrounds

5. it works based in a matchmaking system

from those 5 points, most if not all are present in the MMORPGs of today, just that they are mixed with the traditional features...

 

4 out of 5 you mention you find in most MMORPGs for the last decade. 1st one is optional in most MMORPGs though...

exactly....

Originally posted by scorpex-x

I have tried warframe and destiny, they are both mmo fps titles but compared to an mmorpg they are incredibly shallow.

 

Why have no companies made an mmorpg, but with an fps engine?

because you cannot make a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Plagin Game out of a First Person Shooter engine.......

you can however, copy the mechanics of an FPS and put them into an MMORPG. FPS games are shallow by default, they dont have much variation in their inner workings.

1. you play in first person view

2. you have fast paced combat with tactics based around the terrain

3. you take control of vehicles or strategic structures (Halo, Dust 514?)

4. its mostly PvP in battlegrounds

5. it works based in a matchmaking system

from those 5 points, most if not all are present in the MMORPGs of today, just that they are mixed with the traditional features...

 

some games have disabled individuals working in certain roles, for example, the Demon Hunter from Warcraft III was blind, the Dreadnoughts of 40K are basically pseudo-dead individuals who are condemned to be attached into a machine suit forever in order to keep going with their duty.

in Starcraft the Protoss race had the Dragoon, and in Starcraft II they have two new units which i dont remember their names but have the same function.

a disabled class would be interesting to play in an MMO but would have to have some sort of compensation in order to balance.

for example, if it was meant to stay in a wheelchair, then the most logical would be to overcome its crippled state either by levitation or being capable of i dunno, posses a unit (like Bran Stark)...

a blind individual would not be able to see things that the other people see(Demon Hunters from Warcraft), muted individuals can express spells via other means (Sona from League of Legends is attuned to a musical instrument)

i dunno about a deaf character but it would be interesting.

as for wheelchairs

 

i dont know if there's a point for them, specially for games which setting is either sci fi or high fantasy (whats the point of a wheelchair in the future if you can augment your body? or use magic to compensate anyways?)

its funny how all the comments bash or defend Blizzard when the OP is basically bitching about why Blizzard hasnt made an Starcraft MMO.

as i said in another thread similar like this. looking at the development of the Starcraft IP you cannot really expect they will be able to come out with an MMO. Starcraft has so many ties to its own gameplay and each race is so unique that it would require to create distinct gameplay for each one of them. in fact, they would have to gut the IP if they would catter to the audience because outside of the Terran:

1. the Protosss dont have piloted mechs, their reavers and colossi are basically drones, their ranged units are crippled individuals or have their minds transferred to a machine, you dont see a zealot with a gun for example. the rest of the units are either psionic casters or melee fighters. outside of the Psionic gameplay there's not much versatility for the protoss in terms of what they can do if players would choose the for an MMO character.

2. the Zerg are glorified eusocial insects (or benevolent Tyranids if you want to look it that way), outside from Kerrigan and other mutated Terran characters, the Zerg dont have the equivalent to a humanoid unit, each of its units are of animal ancestry and are pigeonholed into a single role in the swarm as a whole. if the Zerg were to be added into an MMO they would have to get a next step into their evolution (which is something that should had happened already with Kerring, dunno why they havent yet).

the Terran like all human races is more versatile in what they can do because they arent tied to an specific trait, they can even adapt into Psionics and cover several roles in society, the Protoss bypassed this by having their disabled and AI doing the rest of the work and the Zerg have a large array of specificly evolved beings in order to cover those same functions.

you know MMO players dont like to have their races disabled by gameplay, they ask for balance, WoW races have practically all the same classes with certain exceptions due to lore.

if you want to get another clarification, look it like this. Warcraft was easy to convert into an MMO because all the races in the setting were humanoids and their units were homogeneous enough so the developers could take the classes out of them. even from races that didnt really get many influence in the game. it didnt matter if the orcs didnt have paladins or if night elves didnt have warlocks because that was lore related but they had their own version of warriors, hunters, mages, etcetera.

in Starcraft that doesnt happen, you cannot compare a Marine with a Zealot or a Zergling, the Zealot is melee and its not encumbered by a powersuit, the Zergling isnt even humanoid and is un armored.

and guess what, MMOs are all played with humanoids, save a few special titles which allow you to play as things like dragones or the like.

there's also the thing of items, the Zerg dont use equipment, they evolve for a role and its expected they will die covering that role.

the protoss in theory could use the same equipment as humans, but their fort is the use of Psionics and Protoss tech is several orders of magnitude more advanced than Terran so they would have to have their own equipment

TL:DR each race is so unique already they cannot be homogenized for an MMO, both in terms of models and equipment, the gameplay would have to be so complex it could turn off players.

i would take my own project into completion, as long as i had the manpower, money and time and the fanbase doesnt become hyped with the thing.... would post the features but its so complicated that would require several wall of text for it

L2: all the Kamael classes (because rapiers, bigass swords and crossbows FTW), also dark elf classes (gotta love dark elves)

WoW: always had a thing for the hunter class, specially in regards to beastmastery, but blizzard never gave it enough depth and they even nerfed it some of its versatility (when you could use melee with them and that stuff, fuck it, i wanted to be like Rexxar goddammit). i also had a thing for the Death Knight, mostly due to the kickass armor you got at the end of the leveling tutorial and because it was the most closer to a necromancer in the game.

EVE: while they dont have classes, i have a thing for the Rookie Ships, no joke here, i love the rookie ships and i wish CCP could give them more opportunities in the game (you cant even fit them properly outside of a few T1 modules, heck they have even some of the best designs, the Impairor for example)...

Dofus/Wakfu: the Foggernaut, the class is distinct in the two games (in Dofus its mostly focused in its turrets, in Wakfu is kind of a debuffing bot with a good versatility).also i like steampunk stuff :P

 

as for MMOs in general, the template for "summoner" its the best i can get,  be it a mage, warlock, beastmaster, necromancer , drone user or whatever, if i can catch it and use it then i like it. points if the game allow me to customize my pets or something

mostly depends if you can take on the challenge and succeed, the money is secondary...but its important to think on it too, specially regarding personal investment.

and time, if its gonna end eating a large chunk of your personal time it may not be a good thing, specially regarding family or work.....

the grind.......be it mob farming or quest farming........im not a content locust and i like to take my time to level, but yisus craist, they should at least put some effort into making it enjoyable somehow....each time i see a game which leaves me with a grind "cliff" after the starting tutorial turns me off quickly.

oh wait, but that's for any MMO.

going in context with the OP would be the payment model mostly, i dont like P2W, i dont like B2P i can somehow get with P2P as long as i get to buy gametime with ingame currency (this is why i love/loved EVE) F2P is a no brainer for me as long as i dont get locked in content (which is something 90% of F2P titles do so damn)....

Originally posted by Dreamo84
Because many Eve players and former Eve players are dying for a non vehicle based version of Eve basically. Sadly, open space is just easier to make a sandbox out of.

not necessarily "non vehicle" but at least allow to play as a person iwith different vehicles or equipment instead of only as a spaceship.

the problem of an Starcraft MMO is more of the gameplay side. look at the Warcraft RTS and you will understand why an Starcraft MMO is not possible.

for blizzard it was easier to make WoW because the Warcraft races are practically similar in their ways. all of them are humanoids and are similar enough for giving them practically the same classes and profesions. there wasnt really many variation between the playable races in the RTS, except that the undead followed the same theme of having to corrupt the land in order to have more building space and the night elves had mobile buildings.

outside of that there wasnt any issue to pass these features to an MMO. you cannot do that with stracraft because:

 

1. Protoss ranged units are composed of formerly crippled individuals or minds transfered to a machine, you would have to invent a new class in order to give a normal protoss individual the chance of using a gun, as for the most part its either to be melee or use psionic powers. also, large scale operations make use of mechanical constructs which are controlled by an AI (reaver and colossus for example). playing as a protoss means you either go "mage" or "fighter" because you dont really have normal ranged units

2. the Zerg race is composed of creatures of animal ancestry, there's no humanoids inside the swarm, save for Kerrigan and a few known infected terrans or evolved individuals (zagara and the like) which are intelligent enough to have their own distinction. also, each zerg unit is pigeonholed to a determined role, that overspecialization would be game breaking for many players. so in order to allow the zerg to be a playable race they would have to evolve into a humanoid state or use terran DNA to create a new unit.

the RTS gives so many distinction to each race in this case that finding a generalist way for their use in an MMO would require changing many facets of the race and putting new lore stuff into the mix. and i bet many people wouldnt agree with that.

 

a Samurai would be a good adition but its more of a title than a class itself.

if you look at it historically, it was basically a warrior that worked by a code of honor. whereas most warriors in mmos are of the medieval kind, brutes that charge at the enemies without any kind of strategy, using their raw force in order to kill as most enemies as possible.

a Samurai-like class would be the total oposite, a disciplined warrrior which is well versed into combat strategies and is capable of using different tactics (or combos) in order to kill his enemy quickly. kinda like a warrior/assasin mixture, the Samurai doesnt charge at you with a bigass sword he charges at you with a light strike and knows where to fuck you up with a single hit of its katana.

as for other oriental classes. well the monk is just a martial arts master, maybe kinda a warrior/mage who fights usually bare handed.

the ninja is an assasin with emphasis in stealth tactics (its not like every assasin class is a godammed ninja in most if not all MMOs). using shurikens and other ninja related weapons would be a good addition though.

 

 

from what i've read in this thread, people really need to get over the concept that zerging is a tactic as old as warfare itself, its not a recent thing, overpowering the enemy using numbers has existed since the dawn of civilization, in fact, its part of the natural tactics of some species. humanity is the only sentient race that thinks quality wins over quantity most of the time.

its something you cannot balance, even in MOBAs the use of overwhelming numbers is a valid tactic (getting 1v2/3/4/5 ganks). you can only counter that either being an incredibly broken character or being several lvls higher than them. and that only ensures you can survive enough for taking down one or two depending if they have crowd control.

so no, zerging is not a recent invention, its just one of the most basic and safe tactics to do in battle, and in a controlled environment as in MMOs is worth exploiting because of it. the devs are only obligued to make it the least annoying as possible, but it cannot be eliminated alltogether without adding certain unfair mechanics.

if you want fair PvP the only option are duels, warfare was never meant to be fair, even less in games, when there's no real organization, no real strategy, games like EVE have fleet commanders and all the thing but still, the final word of power comes from how many people can you land on the battlefield. without real consequences there's no way to balance the zerg rush, that doesnt happen in an online game, if you loose units they will respawn and can enter the battle again later, IRL if you loose forces you have to either retreat or loose alltogether, the chances of defeating the enemy in battle with number imbalance is extremely rare.

as for the trinity system itself, well, rock/paper/scissors has always been a valid system for balancing, but limits the customization of the characters in the game, and customization is the new flavor that comes for most of the new games, the industry is shifting from static classes to dinamic skill systems, over specialization can be counterproductive the same way as generalism can be a downer in some cases. the trinity is not enough anymore.

if someone wants to support he should have the right to do it without being obligued to chose X or Y class. the same way as someone would like to choose of tanking or dealing damage. class based systems have to be scrapped and there has to exist a real choice based system for players.

in the end, the problems of PvP are a result of player behavior more than game mechanics, the players are the ones who find the ways to exploit the system for their benefit...it doesnt matter if the game has trinity or not

 

 

 

fantasy wise: WoW, dont play it anymore (got bored of it over time) but i love the IP and follow it in spirit

sci-fi wise: EVE, cannot play it due to not having money(no, PLEX is too expensive now for earning it with isk) so i follow it in spirit too

 

Shores of Hazeron, before it was shut down and then brought again under a P2P system (it was open to everyone back in the days).

graphics and lag are the two mayor drawbacks most of the time, but the game has potential. and now that the developer gets an actual income for there's the possibility to maybe hire someone to improve the graphics, at least once the community is large enough for covering outside the server's mantainance...

 

its more of the modern times, most players right now dont really care about the story and just want to eat the content.

so in order to make content less "boring" they just strip most of the storytelling and just give watered down quests or cinematics that are fast to skip and dont make the player actually make an effort to understand.

it happens in all games of this era.

 

 

supports in MMOs dont exist anymore, they were moved to MOBAS where they (almost) have a job(it seems not even there people likes to play support).

 

from all the online games i've tried.........Hazeron.......i would like to see something on the scope of that.

-you could create your race

-you could found an empire

-you could colonize other planets and systems

-you could design your ships

-you could design the buildings

-participate in the economy

-amass an army be it with NPCs or players

-jump to the action both in the frontlines and as strategist

 

then the dev got bored of its little project and instead of giving the IP and the game to competent developers he kept it for himself while doing other projects. a trully sad day....

 

outside of that i see no MMORTS with enough depth, well, RTS are an old branch of games so theres not much to innovate

some things:

1. strip miners have a lesser cycle time now, they used to be capped to 180 seconds per cycle, CCP changed mining ships main bonuses from yield to cycle time

2. one does not mine only veldspar, is more profitable to mine the whole belt than cherry pick ores, the time you spend looking for X type of asteroid cuts benefits, i used to mine only plagioclase/pyroxeres, then i discovered i could make more or less the same money just eating the whole cluster of asteroids and i didnt have to worry about changing location.

3. 1 cargo of ore in a retriever mackinaw is valued around 5-6 millions and the time required is more or les 20-30 min so its capped at 10 millions per hour at most, and that's checking cycles and all. if you make only 3 millions in 1 hour it must be because you either dont have enough skills in mining ships or you mine AFK, which is counterproductive

4. if you want to get other stuff to do you could try missions, you dont have to grind them TBH, but the extra income can help you to fund a PvP ship for example, or any other miniproject that doesnt hurt your wallet if you were only mining. take it as a break from shooting at rocks all day round for example.

there's also an actual incentive to do missions, specially in the station where you are located. and is because the better the standing with the faction/station, the lower the taxes in terms of reprocessing and i think repairs and other stuff like that. i dont remember if CCP change that much, but i think they didnt.

5. you dont really need to become a missioner, the first mission lvls are easy, its only in lvl 4s which you are required to have a battleship and a good strategy in order to solo it, they can be expensive and hard but give good earnings both in reputation, LP and ISKs. but if you want to, a battlecruiser for lvl 3 missions give quite the money, at least for small operations and can be fun. the skills you spend into tanking and combat for these can be later used for PvP.

6. if you have scanning and combat skills you could explore wormholes, i did that the last season y played, a normal BC with T2 modules and a good supply of drones can do some lesser wormhole sites, and you can earn millions with that as long as you know how to traverse them and how to evade gankers.

im surprised no one commented on blizzard's defacto mascot: murloc tadpoles :3 they look so cute and derpy with their tails, little big front tooth, their derpy faces and their voices

from Lineage i would add the baby pets, the buffalo specially, looks like a plushie

from wakfu/dofus is either the gobballs or the meowmeows(they have thousands of cute pets actually)

Aion didnt make it for me but there was some race of small bunny-like blue humanoids living in the Asmodean territories when starting the game,

 

oh and EVE, i dont know about you but i find the drones quite adorable, specially the gallente hobgoblins, i mean, just look at them, they look like tiny helms with blasters at their sides :v

 
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