In the interest of my own thread-can you please define WoW clone?

Also, what's so different in Aion than in WoW? Save the sieges...

Ok. There is no need to be sensational anymore :). We're on the page 16!

Anyhow forsaking of good ideas for a potential increase in profits does nothing for me as a gamer. Exactly the opposite in fact. Now, if the increase in profit was guaranteed, I wouldn't complain. But for potential?

And no. Not a WoW clone, but more of a WoW's subgenre of MMOs. Many of games are like that and I don't necessarily like them(or don't like them). It's just that I want the essence to be fun instead of monotonous grind. And has been said, very few true MMORPGs have been made ever since the SWG. Many were MMOs, sure, but MMORPGs?

And as always, a good Community helps tenfold!

Now imagine gameplay of Skyrim with the community of, say, Vanguard's calibre. Add some more MMO things(the ability to be anything-from pauper to king) and that's what I call a right and proper mmorpg(I can only hope that it's the same with you others).

It's not what we want fax. It's what MASSES want. Unfortunately, this is the truth and the only thing that concerns suits. Not quality. Only quantity.

That's because we have a faulty payment system. I'd love pay per hour to get ported over to the west. So we can finally see which games are truly profitable and which are not. We'd also see which buyer is just a noise(saw the AD on tv and then played the game for what? 10 hours tops?) and which is a true gamer. That's why I propose for all the games to be pay per hour(even singleplayers!). Because then and only then the quality could trump the quantity.

What an utopia right ;)?

DF's too PvP-y for me, so Thank you but no Thank you. 

Lol, yeah, the XP. Just...lol!

How can a mage become a better mage just by killing a Wolf? Maybe his spells CAN become more powerful, but how can he learn new spells out in the field? Is he carrying a library with him lol? Even one tome would be too much, let alone 4-5.

edit: what games you ask? Well, that's bloody visible. WoW clones would be the games like LoTRO, Aion, Rift, WAR, AoC, Tor and their ilk. Furthermore, all of the games that forsake good ideas just because and therefore come out mediocre can(and only can, they aren't) be considered WoW clones(in another, less obvious fashion). This category would entail GW 2, STO, Neverwinter and the like.

Originally posted by UnleadedRev

Originally posted by Gorwe

I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

"...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

Hi Gorwe, thanks.

The thing is those DoW II games sold like hotcakes. They only suffered because despite making money, the devs and publisher Relic (was there another) mis-managed their own company as a whole. Correct?

Also, are you from the UK? Reason I ask, is that even though Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are big here in the USA, I believe it all started in the UK and everything from WAR and WAR 40K books, tabletop games/figurines, and PC games are still the most popular in the UK?

So in a nutshell, it would seem the main problem is Games Workshop doesnt care about the PC Games, as long as they get their cut and the IP is not violated, i.e. "Flintstones invade Praag" or something like that, Games Workshop is content to focus their resources on the figurine/TT market and doesnt care if every PC Game went kaput, as long as they get their initial cut?

Geezuz...and yet..so many crap games survive...why cant our Warhammer games do so too?

Correct. Relic killed itself. They killed themselves by some weird moves(overfocusing on DLC, leaving various parts of game imba in Retribution, shift in the story telling in Retribution, everything went south) and more importantly because the true Pubs(THQ) went bankrupt. Though if you look at the ending of Retribution(I think it's not spoiler anymore), a LIBRARIAN became a DAEMON PRINCE of KHORNE! , you can clearly see that they got majority of things wrong and that they don't understand anything(basically).

As for me, no I am not from Great Island of yore ( :P ). I have to go there once(beautiful place indeed, I've got to see Emirates Stadiun in London{ARSENAL!!!} and perhaps even attend that Summer conference that BL authors have{in Notts}). I am from little spec in SE Europe called Croatia. I don't think we even have a GW themed gamestore here. Therefore, I don't have anywhere to either buy minis or to play anything of such calibre. Tho, TCGs are popular here(Magic et al). I only buy and read and ENJOY the books! They are awesome by themselves.

Your Third paragraph would be correct yes. They only care about TT because it brings them the bulk of their money. If they managed to pull Rift or LoTRO's success, let alone WoW's, you'd see their priorities shifting.

As for the last: because people Expect too much. And they should seeing how Noble pedigree Warhammer IP is. Then that expectations meet the reality and, well, you know what happens. That's why they don't survive. As for the other games, well, nobody really cares if there exists or doesn't exist Rift/Aion/eve/... Because they ARE NOT using up a FAMOUS IP. Simple.

In the genre plagued by uncreative games and by the drive to clone WoW's success, I am looking for good and creative games.

What an oxymoron!

I just can't stand tab target, bland quests, Dungeon grinds, reputation grinds, shallow stories, WoW combat, WoW animations, stand to cast, focus on the endgame, gameworld so bland that players have to bring it to life with an actual Heavy RP, "crafting", ... I mean this has got to end at some point or the other. We've sacrificed Conan, Warhammer, Star Trek, Star Wars, The Elder Scrolls(soon), DnD(Neverwinter- it should've been NWN 3!), LoTR(almost forgot this one lol!)... WHERE DOES THIS STOP???

I agree that we are seeing movement towards both sandboxes and hybrids, but currently we are in the gutter with all the shits, excrements and stuff. Woe be upon this genre...

(I think I'll play TSW+singleplayers until these suits{whose ties are so tight around their necks that they can't think-not enough O2} wake up and realise that you CAN'T REPLICATE WoW's success! Hell, even Blizz can't replicate that "perfect storm", let alone others.)

Is this a good idea? Is anyone else tired of current "MMOs"?

I want MMORPGs back, damn it!!!

I can tell you what I heard from common sense and Pachter. Brace yourself for the truth:

They are in it FOR MONEY first and EVERYTHING ELSE second.

Also, I saw a post from some bloke on a site for Tabletop game reviews about what High ranking GW guy told him(GW guy to the gamestore that bloke owned)-it merely reinforces this truth:

"...so he said to me that they are in it only to sell Tin bitz/figurines. ..."->that doesn't worry you even a bit?

That's why they turned a blind eye to the Skaven+Dwarf debacle. That's why they allowed Wrath of Heroes in the first place. That's why they sign contracts with cheap studios(Slitherine comes to mind) because then they have pure profit. And you know our fasci overlords. They are all over that.

Don't get me wrong. The best RTS(and RTT when I better think about it) that I played in recent years was Dawn of War(both). The best Themeparks I played were WAR and TSW(still playing this one). And I think that the best Total War game will be Total Warhammer. And I'd outright KILL(I mean this!) for a TES-like Warhammer Fantasy experience. Meh. I guess Warhammer quest is going to suffice >.<

That ok unleaded? And I am often angry how everyone and their Grandma has understanding for failcraft, but not for what spawned failcraft. Meh, the skeins of fate are tangled.

Now I am bitter and angry as well... Good job unleaded!

That private server is DEAD and because of MY naivete. I mentioned some names out loud(perhaps even here on mmorpg). And in the eve(I said that in the morn) it was gone. Well, you learn something every day right ;) ?

Or...is there another? If there is, DON'T MENTION IT(or GW fasci overlords will close it down)!!!

Pur was not talking to you temp. He was addressing the OP's notion of bad zone design.

Oh volg, you can add the optimization to the list of cons. It's HORRIBLE(they use single core ffs!).

I hear you. I fucking love some of souls(when was the last time you heard anyone and I mean anyone using fire for Defense?). There are more examples, but Concerning lore Purifier is the #1. Then there are Chloromancers(another novel idea), archons(novel as well) and Dominators(well they are sort of Mesmer like, but not quite lol. They are awesome). All in all, their Souls are nice and I find Rifts and their lore interesting as well.

Tho, game for itself is...eh bland yeah. They could've made SO much more. Meh. Who cares? Certainly not me-it's fun enough as is(I've got SIX characters to take to the max level, then do the whole Dungeon experience with them and then...well who knows if I'll be alive by then? A lot of things can happen...)