Well I understand what you are trying to say(and criticize) about long cooldowns. That's what I want too and that is balanced skills on balanced cooldowns(NOT imba skills on overblown cooldowns). When Imba skills have overblown cooldown then they have perhaps 5% of it's power(and that's optimistic). WoW's Lay on Hands is perfect example. Yes it does recharge full health(in most cases) and yes it does recharge full Rage/Mana/whatever...but 20(TWENTY!!!) minutes cooldown? Please.

Indeed, it is so. Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion and I agree that execution of Morrowind's Main quest was less than stellar. On the other hand they had Ken Rolston to enhance their writting. The absence of Ken was quite tangible in Oblivion(it had way more heroic storyline, yet it felt more mundane).

I apologize for my zeal anyhow.

Yes, Relic games are outstanding(40k games that is). All of them(DoW 1+2,SM and undoubtfully Dark Millenium). When I read Matthias Thulmann or the Gray Knights series it is just so...much more than WAR and WoH give you. Somebody thinks that Warhammer is just about War(it isn't, otherwise Warhammer Fantasy/Inquisitor wouldn't be even half as popular as they are).

If only 1/4 of Warhammer Fantasy lore made it in whatever Warhammer Fantasy game I'd be extatic(it is not less epic than 40k, whatever developers think).

And then this happens...a lot of sheep start defending something that shouldn't be defended(bad game design). That is THE reason why MMO's are so stagnant(because CEO's lke Kotick are comfortable milking sheep to the last penny{and why wouldn't they? The sheep obviously want to give them money}, I know that I'd be exactly like Kotick if I were in his place). Long cooldowns/hordes of various bars and grind orientation with no story reasoning is B.A.D. for you. Protest against it(or be ambivalent for all I care), but for the love of Isha please DO NOT DEFEND bad game design(and through it scum like Kotick).

Morrowind had a lousy main quest??? The one where you did not know who was using you(hint:90% of denizens) and who is a friend(like 1 in a 1000-so lifelike!)? I actually think that Morrowind is perfectly situated(gray storyline in the province of the gray mer{elves}). And that is one of pinnacles of storytelling(along with BG2 and Planescape) according to many. I bet that Oblivion wouldn't even have like 30% of his players if there was no Morrowind.

Concerning your request...with you boycotting Sony(really why? what are you going to accomplish with that?) there is only DDO(please DO bear in mind that it's situated on Eberron not Faerun), FF XI and Guild Wars. Of course, you could always go and play single player games. Whatever you choose have fun with it(in the most sincere way possible)

It all boils down to this: DDO/FF 11/Guild Wars/Skyrim. Answer that and you're good to go.

About long cooldowns like Recall(30 min in WoW) and Lay on Hands(20 min)...it is true that in free to play they would instantly offer you a better deal for like 30$ each and every spell with overblown cooldown(more than a minute) gets it's cooldown reduced by 75%(minimum: a minute). Then there's a thing called "subscription". With all those overblown they DO achieve to elongate your playing time(the result:for each of your sessions elongated, the overall amount of subscription revenue rises). So yes, they CAN and they WILL make life harder for you(the same answer appliess for questions like:why is there so much grind/respawning quest targets{Princess from WoW anyone?}/repetitive actions overall).

Concerning rows upon rows of health bars, skill bars, cast bars...it is bad game design. It is like you had to buy rank upgrades for spells before the Cataclysm/Rift arrived. Now it is automated and you buy only new skills(although I do remember buying rank 2 of Bolt of Malice etc in Rift's beta). This bad game design is going to pass(yes, going to, not will, so I'm assured of it) as soon as there is venerable WoW's succesor. Game companies look at WoW and see 12 mil. people playing that(I'd wager that not even 25% of that plays at any given time) and, naturally, think that the players want such a convoluted interface. Long story short, that is the direct result of WoW cloning(you can tell it straight away).

On the topic of the third point, I've seen my share of high quality written quests(still kill x of those), but they were so masterfully written that you wanted to slaughter them yourself. The example? Two epic quests from Warhammer Online(The Lesser of two      evils in Empire T2{actually it connects directly to T3 Epic quest} and the Epic Quest from T1 High Elf/Dark elf{BOTH}). In the former you could actually feel that you were in Warhammer(what with corrupted doctors/nobles and all) and when you learned that the Doctor you're after(forgot his name) sacrificed ENTIRE north Ostland to Nurgle(read:infected them with plague)...you just wanted to kill him,revive him,kill him some more(i.e. inflict upon him eternal anguish) etc. The latter is concerned(I'll take High Elven) with an invasion and what transpires during it. When you read a former noble sobbing about recently slaughtered civilians and their affinities(she even says that one of them used to make such a lovely paintings) mixed with touching Elven music(in tragicaly epic way), you just feel the need to strangle some Druchii(Dark Elves) so you can avenge innocently killed. Although I'd like the quests to be mix of Rifts/PQ's and standard quests(voice acting NOT NEEDED), so you can clearly see the results of your actions.

I'm also hot on Guild Wars 2 if it isn't visible, although I DO like some of current MMO's(GW,Vanguard,WAR...), they are few and far between.

Avoid it like Devil avoids incense...and let it die already(or be sold off)!

Exactly!!! They are like moths that can not break off the light that's killing them(not so serious, but the idea is visible). Those two are just bad games(how I hate to say that about games set in universe I LOVE).

I did not expect it would ever come to this(seeing how I am naturally helpful/positive person) but I am actually now rooting not for survival of WAR but for it's death. Strange are Lord's ways, it's true. It does not have to die per se, but at least be sold off of EA/Failythic's influence. Either of those two is fine with me.

Game like DIII ought to have low requirements, because it does not need Crysis/CoD/BF levels of graphics...I wish all the fun in the world to all that make it to Closed Beta(and to those who have made already). :)

I agree with Loke about Guild Wars 2(the game I'm keen on too), but I wanted to keep it about current games(point 1 is a killer though{I do not like such games myself-gear to raid to gear to raid...?})...and you can do those two/three raids that exist in Vanguard and keep playing it like you would a typicall Sandbox(at least that's my impression).

If you decide to wait for Guild Wars 2...then I suggest you have a chat with lads in General Gaming, because you'll be in for a wait(I am in for a 4+ years now) and go grab a single player game you like.

off topic-I actually expect DE's are going to end up either as Rifts(zerg to win-bad) or as Vanguard's outdoor dungeons(same stuff as inside but it is out there in the world-good).

Ok let's start this...how do you know/feel that you've found MMO that you're going to play for longer than a month?

Is it a lack of discomfort while playing? Or the fact that you can't imagine a day without it? Maybe something other or all or none of listed?

This is a place for all MMORPG-ers to discuss their thoughts/feelings/experiences about such a matter.

Discuss away!

(I can't post mine because it's been ages since that happened to me...and, well, I do not remember it)

Oh, I read a lot. The thing I do not understand is why HUGE amounts of people(you like standing in a mob or something)? If you've got a group of people to play with...all the other people(or lack of them) on server mean NOTHING(at least for me).

Like it or not...Vanguard's your place(go to Telon server and join Twylyghte(sp?) Song guild). That's all the people you'll ever need(though you can ignore this advice-I'm just good at seeing components and matching them with a game that has most of them).

You are VERY picky though(even I have trouble matching your Req's with a game). You'll have to sacrifice a point or two if you do not want Vanguard...tell which two(or one) so we can help you further.

Ok. I'll wait for GW2 for third one...(I'll have a lot to do between college,WoW and Vanguard anyways{will try DDO though-maybe something changes}).

Thanks for all the help guys. You've been of REAL help. Mods you can lock/close down this thread now.