The Wild Cards series would make an amazing super hero MMO

I think there is a very vocal portion of players as a whole (not just in this agerange or that) who have gotten pretty lazy and demanding in recent years. Also: larger. Games have improved, a lot. They cater more to player desires. A lot. The novelty of being able to play online with thousands of other folks in the same persistant world has worn off, and the entitlement has set in.

They want challenge, but they want it handed to them on a silver platter and they want to get lots of head pats and prizes for success. They want lore but they don't want to read quest text. They want to be rewarded for everything they do, and they want those rewards to be better than whoever decided to go around doing something else. They don't want to quest. They don't want to grind. They want leveling to be satifying but not fast. Not slow either. They want immense worlds, but they don't want to have to spend lots of time traveling across it.

It goes on. And I know it's kind of typical of the human condition, so on and so forth, but it's frustrating to see so many people so intent on not enjoying the games that they play.

To be honest, in the long run (which MMORPG's are all about) it doesn't matter. Eventually, once the flavour of the month game has settled, and the tourists have either decided to stay or go, all active mmorpgs are in competiton with each other.

Exploration.

Crafting/upgrading that's worthwhile and doesn't punish you to the point where you either have to be buying currency from gold farmers or quite simply a masochist.

Satisfying grind areas.

Basically, I like having a game where I can choose to do things outside of the quest lines, and still enjoy myself.

Also: world updates. Be they events, major patches, or full expansions. Even if I don't like the actual content, these keep a game feeling "alive" and full of possiblities. 

I have never pirated a game, but I find services like steam make me want to buy more games. If I can watch a movie on netflix, then I'll watch it on netflix and not even think of trying to get fully free elsewhere. That's the kind of distribution the entertainment industry needs to focus on in order to survive and thrive, and I think it's pretty reasonable.

I don't feel bad that they need to change. I think it's the universe's reply for the movie and music industry increasing prices by like 50% when they switched to cd's and dvd's...which were cheaper to mass produce than tapes.

Not to mention the hundreds and thousands of mainstream albums with only 3 good songs.

And the crappy sequels.

And re-issues.

I just play games when I can, and to have fun. I don't want things just handed to me, I'm fine with slower progress due to challenge+time required in a game, but I wouldn't go by your definition and call myself hardcore just for that.

I've always assumed a hardcore player was one who defined themselves, both online and irl, through their games and the way they play them. The very strong, firm, yet incredibly varied opinions of such players would mean that any such game would be a niche of a niche. Only capable of appeasing a portion of what appears to be the dwindling pool of truly hardcore players.

Originally posted by joanne71

Aion, Rift, invariably the 'good guys' win with the faction having more people, more playing hours, better gear, and ultimately more fun.

So does it pay off to spite 1/2 of your subscribers?

Not sure about Aion, but Rift's factions are not based on "good" or "evil" but rather on philosophy (should we rely on our gods or our ourselves?) It's not like the games where one faction has the heroes and the otherside has the monsters (though monstrous things are done by each side, creating a lovely moral grey area.) Personally? I like it, since it allows me to identify more closely with the conflict in the game.

I believe the Defiant faction has a bit of a lead over the Gaurdians, but nothing game breaking or leading to a situation that spites 1/2 of the subscribers.

As an RPer I prefer my characters to be adventurers rather than great big heroes in most games. The exception would be games like VIndictus and Dragon Nest, where exploration/role-playing isn't really an option, the story is very linear (you HAVE to be a hero,) but fighting the oncoming hordes of enemies is pretty darn fun anyways.

Survival Horror. Thoroughly atmospheric survival horror. It could be traditional, sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, what-evs. The type of game where you can get better equips or supplies, but nothing that actually makes you feel safe in the enviroment. There is no such thing as OP, unless you're talking about the occaisonal "ohgodohgodohgod" creature that just arrived to have it's way with your face. Which would be, admittedly, a challenge in an MMO environment. But I think it could be done! They could go Silent Hill style, with tons of fog obscuring what's coming at you. It is a horrible abomination that wants to wear your ribs as a hat? Or is it another player, a potential ally that could help you against said creatures? Do you attack or hold? You have decide now, because it looks likes its running right for you.

Death would have to hurt, to the point of equipment loss and de-buffs. PvP would need to be open world (something I don't really like in standard fantasy mmorpgs but think would be important for this kind of game.) Fog could be used to for zoning, and to make things truly awesome, zoning would be random. Youthink you know where you are? Where you're going? Think you're gonna meet up with some friends over yonder and kick some monster business? Well think again, because you just ended up falling into a sewer system of Awful and Pain.

x: Would be pretty niche, because I know that sort of inconvenience turns people off, but I think much of the survival horror crowd would enjoy such an mmo, since we like pain as long as it's the kind of pain that scares the crap out of us.

Gaming forums are best used for alternating between arguments and popcorn.gif, not for making a decision on what game to actually play.

Originally posted by Disatisfied9

In reality, minecraft actually hinders people's creativity, seeing as how the majority of people try to copy other things, which isn't creative at all. (Pokemon Minecraft, Everquest Freeport Minecraft, Reddit Minecraft).

That's not really the game's fault, since it doesn't really force players to copy anything. Both your posts kind of scream "I hate it because it became popular." I'm not a minecraft fangirl, I prefer Terraria mayself (also under the percieved "clone" onus) but I really do think you need to get over it. Games become popular, internet buzz helps this, but it's not a crime to be successful due to effective marketing or even pure, stupid luck.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by rissies

Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.

And solo players can group up if they choose to. If you make the decision not to participate in group content, you are not being denied anything, you made that choice.

 

Most games have content for all playstyles and I do not believe that is the issue with most of these conversations. It usually comes down to solo players want solo content that gives the same reward as group or raid content.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be group-only content. At all. Anywhere in my post.

And for me, personally, the reward is the content itself. Equips and such are just a garnish for the gaming experience, at least if said content is worthwhile.

I do hope more MMORPGs take a note from games like Minecraft and Terraria, and how they've managed to thoroughly charm large player bases with their simple yet wonderful sandboxes.

Solo players should have something to do other than re-roll, at least, if the game itself is advertised as being solo-friendly. Plus...people in groups can usually play the solo-able content as well....it's not like anyone's actually being denied anything by having it in a game.

Action is fun. Really, fantastically fun when done right. But hot key or turn-based can have a lot of depth, and I think that's the strength that should be played to in regards to those types of MMORPGS. To me this is slightly less about innovation, and more about culling out what doesn't work well/is shallow and uninvolved.

Keep:

- leveling skills through using them in combat

- gaining skills through questlines relevant to those skills

- synergy between combinations of active/passive/and buff skills that rewards experimentation

- satisfying grinds (grinding has a pretty negative reputation, but the mass killing of creatures has definite charm when done right with fun terrain and an appropriate spawn rate.)

- making the terrain relevant to movement and skills

Cull:

- levleing skills only when a character levels

- bought skills

- redundant skills, where the main difference if the flavour text and animation

- skill sets and combos that are bascially the best answer to over 50% of player combat, especially once level cap is reached. If a player can get through most battles by spamming the same skills over and over again, then it stops being fun pretty fast.

- boring grinds and quest grinds that feel like a chore. I think a lot of devs try to fix this by making the quest demands smaller, and just having lots of quests. This is personal opinion, but I feel that makes things worse. I'd rather kill 99 wolves, rather than have 11 quests to kill 9 of that or gather 9 of this.

I'm feeling 7-8 atm, I think the 9-10 range can only be reached (for me) when a number of my other gaming friends are playing the same game ~ and right now, everyone's pretty scattered (game-wise.) If you're with the right people and willing to enjoy yourselves, almost any game can be a 10 for enjoyment. Even the sheer ridiculous acts of gaming masochism that an MMO can inflict on you can be enjoyable with your friends cheering you on (or taunting you.)

As far as current MMOs go ~I play Rift (for immersion, in-character writing, getting ALL THE THINGS) and Dragon Nest (for short bursts of action killings and snappy setting/story) and I've recently picked up GW1 because I died a lot in the trial (always a good sign) and plus I'd like understand the game world and lore a bit before GW2 comes out (if I REALLY like it, I'll get the expansions and see if I can get some of the HoM goodies for GW2.)

Whenever a new f2p game comes out in NA, I like to try it and sample it a bit without feeling the need for any major time or monetary commitment toward them ~ which I find pretty fun and enjoyable, actually. And this has been an excellent year for f2p games ~ so yeah, my overall feeling toward MMOs is pretty positive, though I am hoping GW2 turns out to be the game that draws all my peeps back together again.

So far, Trion hasn't seemed willing to just sit back and enjoy a modicum of success, but rather continues to actively campaign to keep subscribers and gain new ones. This is not a bad idea for any gaming company.

I still think it has more to do with player perspective and the mentality with which they play those games that makes them "fail" ~ not to say that there aren't bad games out there, but there's a certain, very vocal segment of players that are more focused on being a discerning gaming critic of sorts, rather than just playing a game because they like it and it's fun. Even the worst games can be fun and offer a good playing experience if the people playing it are willing to just have fun.

Also if you look at games ind evelopement, GW2, Wildstar, and The Secret World are all trying to move skills and quests into something more "outside of the box."