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All Posts by william0532

All Posts by william0532

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Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by william0532

Saw the freelancer commercial, it's pretty cool.

 

So sad that Star Citizen is becoming a nickel and dime group.

 

Started out you buy a hull...switch equipment around and make the ship what you want. The freelancer is the first example of what is too come. There are four different hulls. You cannot make the base freelancer the one you want, you need to just buy the version you want.

 

Actually it started with the 300i. You can switch components and make your 300i any of the other variants(315/325), except the 350r(the racing version). That decision was billed as "they just need more racing ships", since racing is just a mini game, it wasn't really that big a deal. Now, it appears you just need to buy the right variant of every ship as there will clearly be a best version now, and no way to upgrade to it.

 

I was pretty stoked that a ship hull would be upgrade-able to any variant, now if you bought a base model ship, your an idiot. You "NEED" to buy the right version for what you want to do. Pretty craptastic deviation fro the original premise.

 

They went straight to a cash grab. Which I don't mind stuff like them selling base hulls, or leather jackets(yeah, they are selling a freelancer look alike jacket), but this new direction changes the core principle of the game.

 

 

what the hell are you even talking aout no one asks you to buy the ships now with money, just wait unti the game comes out and get it in game with credits you earn, how come some people still don't get that concept.

 

buy it now to support develoment or buy it later in game by regular gameplay when it's out, what is so hard to understand

 Maybe you should check the poll at the forum on whether people "bought ships" or "donated money to make the game", the results will hurt your feelings.

Yeah, no one is holding a gun to your head to buy these ****ing things. Great point. Good job.

 

Doesn't change the fact that these ships YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY have fundamentally changed the game. Why did they change the game? MONEY NOW IS WHY. I think the two million in freelancer upgrades proves just how effective the change is. I'm glad it made money, but I'm not glad that it changed a core principle focus of the game.(it's as fundamental of a shift as Star Wars Galaxies having locked profession instead of building one from scratch with the skills you chose(which was a popular choice, just ask SWG vets..) The options got smaller despite the simple minded people thinking "more hulls, more ships". No it's not, they just cut out customization and added the grind. 

 

Take quotes like "Build your ship to suit the task: explorers might work to earn long range engines, while mercenaries go after more powerful shields. Every element of your ship is customizable: weapons, shields, avionics, power reactors, engines, thrusters and even cockpit decorations. Build the ship of your dreams!''

 

Not any more it isn't, now you have a ****ed base ship that is utterly worthless. Time to buy a new ship(NOT AN UPGRADE, NEW SHIP).  In game, or through the forum store, doesn't matter. It's a fundamental shift in game play mechanics, again, for money now. If you have a freelancer base model, it's stupid, and you are stupid for owning one. You cannot change it in game to any of the other hulls. They are four different ships now(that all look the same)

 

You can earn one in game. Good point.. If you want to do several things in game you have to earn MULTIPLE ships now. So all the Firefly fans that wanted a freelancer to be their "ship" their character so to speak, now have to grind, or buy several models instead of storing equipment to change their ships purpose. There is a best version for each task now. MORE GRINDING. I did not want to own three freelancers, whether I bought them or earned them in game. It's ****ing stupid. Again, a shift from the following quote;

 

"LIVE YOUR DREAM...

Say goodbye to the class-based MMO leveling systems. Star Citizen doesn't introduce arbitrary limitations to drive players to continue to play: it creates an experience they will want to come back to, where their own skill is the limit of their abilities. Whether you want to haul cargo while dodging pirates, join the military, be a smuggler of illicit goods, run a successful corporation, or even be a pirate there are dozens of ships at your disposal all the way from single seat fighters to corvettes to 2km long carriers that can be captured by an intrepid group."

 

Nope, ships are now classes, the hulls are arbitrary limitations to drive players to continue to play. Where their own skill is only limited by the model of ship hull they have. etc.

 

I didn't choose a ship because of role, I chose the two I got because I loved the aesthetic. I had planned on acquiring the gear to switch them into whatever role I wanted. Enough of a grind already getting enough equipment to have differing options. Now, there is essentially double the grind with the same ****ing reward. 

 

I don't care that CIG raped their whales for all their worth(I don't have to buy anything), but the choice effects me down the road during the game or at the store. Hell I don't even care if people earn, or buy. Doesn't matter to me, all that matters to me is that the work has doubled, and the ships have become less important. Now they will just be a used car lot the same ships with minor differences in our hangars. 

 

Quotes came from; https://robertsspaceindustries.com/about-the-game

people can dig up the quotes from Reddit, videos, and interviews if really needed. Truth be told, arguing about the shift in principle is a waste of time. It changed, that much is easily provable. What's worth talking about is how this makes the game more of a grind, or money sink should you choose to just buy these hulls at the games store with real money(****s pay to players, and those that earn in game equally).

Also, no one should be daft enough to not see the money grab. They new people would upgrade to a different hulls(of the same ship), because face it, no one tries to have an average anything in games. Do I want an average ship...or do I want the same ship that's just better at what I want to do? Tough question right.

Why just argue about Elite Vs Star Citizen, seems like a great time for sci fi fans period, with others coming as well.

 

Plenty of good points about Star Citizen and Elite have been made. Pretty sure everyone gets the gist of both(I'm playing both, so I gives a damn about saying which is "best" lol.

However, my big fault still lies in how segmented the mmo versions are. Both will allow you to avoid PvP(I know, a plus for a lot, just my quirk) with Star Citizen having a bit more complexity, which I'm sure Elite will do the same as well. However, if your an EVE fan(and I doubt there are many here, on this site), both seem pretty uninspiring if your looking for the original open world setup of the older mmo's, before they became single player themepark machines.

Any way, there are other sci fi games featuring space combat in the work that have me interested as well.

First, the one that could hold potential for an EVE fan; Limit Theory

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4mchQbkE7ssZYXIgaY4PHg

Kind of worrisome as it seems like only one guy working on it, but holy crap it's developing a lot of complexity if you like that sort of thing. No dogfighting though, sadly. Still pretty damn interesting.

Than you have No Mans Sky, it has space ships, and dinosaurs? Graphics are a little dated, but definitely looks like it could be very fun(however, it sounds like it's going to be very splintered in the multiplayer realm, which is sad. Plus it's a timed exclusive with PS4, coming to computers later. Though it gives me that SWG vibe, but better(minus all the tab target mmo stuff, but hell, I only did the planet **** in Star Wars Galaxies too compete in space lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M

 

Cool video.

 

Not making any judgment yet. I'm just going to wait till I know it's more like the first one(Thought that was just a great game).

Saw the freelancer commercial, it's pretty cool.

 

So sad that Star Citizen is becoming a nickel and dime group.

 

Started out you buy a hull...switch equipment around and make the ship what you want. The freelancer is the first example of what is too come. There are four different hulls. You cannot make the base freelancer the one you want, you need to just buy the version you want.

 

Actually it started with the 300i. You can switch components and make your 300i any of the other variants(315/325), except the 350r(the racing version). That decision was billed as "they just need more racing ships", since racing is just a mini game, it wasn't really that big a deal. Now, it appears you just need to buy the right variant of every ship as there will clearly be a best version now, and no way to upgrade to it.

 

I was pretty stoked that a ship hull would be upgrade-able to any variant, now if you bought a base model ship, your an idiot. You "NEED" to buy the right version for what you want to do. Pretty craptastic deviation fro the original premise.

 

They went straight to a cash grab. Which I don't mind stuff like them selling base hulls, or leather jackets(yeah, they are selling a freelancer look alike jacket), but this new direction changes the core principle of the game.

 “given pause not by internal cricisim from frustrated backers who really just want to get into space, but by sensationalistic headlines that imply we’re not working hard or that the game is some sort of scam.”

So he's offended by being called lazy and a criminal. Your upset by this? Your upset, that a grown man takes offense at being called lazy and a criminal! Somehow that has something to do with you?! Wow, the ego. 

So if I call you a fat child molester I should be offended if you don't like it. Good to know. 

 

Post some links to Chris Roberts quote! ****ing shit article, I cannot garner any context because the author passes second hand information with no context and no links to back up his assertions.

Dammit, when did authors become too ****ing stupid to cite their sources. 

Go to IGN.com, arguable one of the most corrupt gaming sites out there, and notice even they have links to their sources in their articles.

 

-EDIT- accidentally went on a rant about what a crap community star citizen has, which was off topic.

-OP-

Elite seems like it has more hope as far as economic influence, and empire building, though the solo player mode does seem to contradict that in a sense(not sure how that will pan out)

 

However Star Citizen, the economy sounds pretty untouchable, and empire building sounds like it's impossible.

Originally posted by Quazal.A

Snip for brevity.

They've offered a lot more than just a box. They've offered ships, inside that box that you can interact with. Dog fighting module is coming out soon.

I really don't believe like you do that this game will end up vapor ware, with the fans being left empty handed. What I do think, is;

 

Fans will feel empty handed because x feature they dreamed up in their own little heads won't be met(this is seen with every game though, and the effect will only be magnified for those that pledge tons to the game)

 

The most disappointing aspect about the pledge campaigns, is the shady tactics used to milk those whales for all their worth.

1. The amount of pledgers isn't increasing exponentially, but the total is. That's because they are milking the **** out of current supporters.

2. They use class warfare to propagate funds; they list your backer status(what ships, and titles you've pledged for), they allow non pledgers to post, but their avatars are grayed out(easiest way to discriminate is through the use of color, worked in the 50's right...). If a none backer posts a question, i.e "how will instancing work", they are met with insults about them not supporting the game, or being below the rest of the community.

The above is exasperated by a "subscribers only" den where they can post without interuption by the "unclean" people in general forums, yet they pop into general chat to berate and talk down too new posters.

The community there is elistist ****. All of them? of course not, but you should be judged by those who represent you the loudest. Now, if those ****bags that post nonsense about backer status were met with criticism from their peers, and action by the mods, than that would be different, yet the majority just let the loud mouths do the speaking for them, so their placation makes them just as much of a piece of **** as the crap posters.

3. reselling same **** different day. Exclusive doesn't mean the same thing their as it does everywhere else. Anyone who's remotely followed the game knows what I'm on about, so I'll let it go. No need to elaborate.

So honestly, I expect CIG to make a great game, but the cost through their actions is going to be hefty in the long run in my opinion.

Originally posted by Imsneaky

Found this.  Some modder made this Freelancer from SC fly like a helicopter in Cryengine.  If he can do that, I have little doubt that Roberts and his team will be able to have free flight in planetary atmospheres.   What Gary and Chris are doing is not like normal games..nor are the constrained in direction like normal games are.  Could EA get done, what I am talking about?  No, the wouldn't even try.  They aren't interested in that type of game.  They want games that are hot for 6 months, not 10 or more years.  Gary and Chris talked about that in that video.

I think both games will be great, and my advice to anyone who likes these types of games is to try both.  See which one fits your preferences.  You can always play both, but I am sure that most people like me won't have the time to dedicate to both games because of their scale.  But as it stands, I do not know which one I will prefer because I have not played either of them.

If you like videos like that;

http://www.youtube.com/user/AnythingFPS

This guy has done so much more since the helicoptor mod days.

 

 

Originally posted by SirBalin
Originally posted by strawhat0981
Will this game really be the sci-fi mmo game everyone wants? I so want a great sci-fi "mmo" but i feel this might fall short.

Honestly dude...I get what you are wanting as  far as the next sci-fi...and lots of small companies have trield, just hasn't happened.  A big company needs to put the efforts in and make that happen.  As far as SC...it's space so...guess you could call it sci-fi, but tbh, I'd classify it more as a space flight sim.  If that sounds sci-fi to you...great, but I don't consider this the next sci-fi game...more the next great space flight sim.  Just my opinion.

I think it's veering away from "just a space sim".

Chris Roberts openly admitted to shifting some of the focus when he saw that 60 % of the fan base was more interested in exploring  than combat related activities. 

I wanted a pure space sim, but I'm warming up too the idea of this being a sci fi universe with more too it.

I mean, if your saying it's not a sci fi game if it's not as fleshed out as the entire star wars universe, well sure. However, they are starting with three main alien species, with two on the way later

Vanduul-vile warrior race that apparently eats us

XI'AN-your typical sci fi trope thinker race

Banu-typical sci fi trope trader species

There is a lot of ground content being added to the game(lots of space ports, hubs, stations and such) and now they will include ground combat in lawless space.

Seems pretty sci fi too me, even though I'm sure it won't be as massive as some would like, at launch.

Originally posted by Blah64
Originally posted by william0532

The only thing bothering me about the game now, is the new stretch goals are offering role specific ships. Which essentially makes them better/best ships.

One of the original design principles highly touted by CIG was no better ships. You outfit hulls to fit your playstyle, but if they add role specific ships, than you won't do that. You will get that "one" ship that is the best at what you like to do in the game.

For those that are sucked in by the whole "pick a class" that best fits your holy trinity model, this is acceptable. For those like me, that like games that let you do whatever the hell you want it's a bit of a hit.

I liked SWG before professions.

I liked freelancer before the Eagle lol.

Not saying this is a major turn off, or has kililed the game for me, but I'm drawn back by it. I wanted to get a ship that feels right, and use the equipment to fully get the best that I wanted it out of it, now I'll merely buy the ship that is the best at what I want to do. Kind of a disappointment.

 

The assumption that there weren't going to be role specific ships seems strange and unfounded. Star Citizen has always been touted as a 'successor' to the great space games of yesteryear. If you've played any space game, ever, then you would be familiar with role specific ships, thus it seems natural that Star Citizen would follow suit.

 

In regards to Star Citizen, I am of the opinion that they will create a good game for space game fans, but the level of hype for this is just so ridiculously high, that no matter what they are able to put out, it cannot possibly satisfy everyone's expectations, and thus be met with disappointment everywhere.  Honestly, I think a lot of people don't really even know that many details about the game, they are just thinking, 'It will be the greatest game ever'.  Just reading threads about Star Citizen in various forums,it is painful seeing different people describe completely different games.

I'm fan of the game, let me preface with that.

Now, games of yesteryear? No. Wing Commander/Freelancer(if you want quotes I can provide them).

Freelancer; until the eagle(arguably) there was no best setup. You took a preference and built on it. Every thing had a positive and negative to it. 

Originally with SC; Every ship fit a preference. If you were a solo player and prefer straight line speed, you could buy a 300i. If you wanted to be an explorer, you could turn that 300i into the explorer variant by changing it's equipment(it becomes a 315). If you wanted to be an interceptor fighter, you could change it's equipment to fit that role(it becomes a 325). 

But than, they changed their design philosophy a little bit by coming out with the 350r, a 300i built for racing. However, you couldn't upgrade your 300i to a 350r. There was some pissing and moaning on the forums about it, but everyone kind of chilled out, cause it was a racer. That's a mini game. No real effect to the PU at all. So people stopped posting the "devs lied" quotes about no best ship and such, because it was basically just a ship for a mini game(racing). 

Now, they are coming out with a "specific role ship" every other day with another million dollars.

Alot of people bought ships because of their descriptions. I bought a constellation because;

I play with friends(it's a multiplayer ship)

I want to be a bounty hunter(it's description-When you think handsome bounty hunter making his own way in a galaxy of enemies, you think the Constellation).

But now, they are going to come out with a bounty hunter specific ship, meaning the constellation was just a waste of money.

People that bought the constellation for the explorer aspect, they are ****ing retarded too, and expected to upgrade to whatever explorer specific ship comes out. If you bought the Constellation for mining(big cargo hold), well your a dip**** because now there is the Orion mining platform that will be better.

It's a money grab pure and simple. People are melting and upgrading, melting and upgrading.

Don't get me wrong, I'm done with buying ships(I've got a constellation, 300i, and an aurora) so I'm pretty stupid anyway and a decent enough contributor and believer in the game. I just don't like this new philosophy.

Star Citizen for me. Sounds like it will have a better more crafted universe.

The only way Elite would have won me 100 % over, is if it had the "procedurally generated universe" with EVE online rules(not ships or combat style).

I mean, having a procedurally generated universe in an empire building game would have been awesome, but elite sounds like you can solo/only play with friends in the persistent/mmo portion of the game. Which I don't get. Elite had all the potential to me to be the PvP game with no boundries I wanted, but now somehow, Star Citizen seems to offer better PvP options(since at least their slider mechanic will not block out 100% PvP anywhere, and in fact does not work at all in lawless space).

The only thing bothering me about the game now, is the new stretch goals are offering role specific ships. Which essentially makes them better/best ships.

One of the original design principles highly touted by CIG was no better ships. You outfit hulls to fit your playstyle, but if they add role specific ships, than you won't do that. You will get that "one" ship that is the best at what you like to do in the game.

For those that are sucked in by the whole "pick a class" that best fits your holy trinity model, this is acceptable. For those like me, that like games that let you do whatever the hell you want it's a bit of a hit.

I liked SWG before professions.

I liked freelancer before the Eagle lol.

Not saying this is a major turn off, or has kililed the game for me, but I'm drawn back by it. I wanted to get a ship that feels right, and use the equipment to fully get the best that I wanted it out of it, now I'll merely buy the ship that is the best at what I want to do. Kind of a disappointment.

So wouldn't arguing this with them be more beneficial than here? I mean, proof is proof(so you say) and it would clear the matter up easily I would imagine.

 

Yes, I do. I need a PvP focused sandbox. I could give a **** what other peoples "needs" are, as I'm sure they don't care what I need, but I need one none the less.
Originally posted by YoungCaesar

First off I just want to say that for this to work, it HAS to be an open ffa pvp game. Please no PvE vs PvP debates here...

The game would also have to be sort of crafting centric for resources to be meaningful and have local banking... With these mechanisms in place, you could have localized resources for different types of crafting items, so theres different supply & demand in each city and its possible to move stacks of one type of resource from where its abundant to sell in another part of the world where its scarce for profit...

This gives birth to a global sandbox economy with trading routes all over the world. Now why does it have to be open pvp? because if not there wouldnt be any risk at all in moving resources and stuff like real player bandits trying to steal the caravans (and those caravans will need to hire protection) wouldnt be possible. This would hurt the economy and make it meaningless. 

Any games out or in development like this?

 

I doubt you'll get this with any high fantasy games.

However, Star Citizen sounds similar(but it's a space sim, fps), even though it's a little more complex.

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Did anyone actually read the article?  Yes, by sheer technicality this is a permadeath system.  But, as in all space based games, just like EVE, your character isnt really the important part.  The important part is your ship and your $$$.  He even admits as much in the article:

 

Because of how Star Citizen works, the death of your character is not as catastrophic as it would be in a traditional RPG. If you want to think about it in terms of RPG conventions, the character that you are leveling up and customizing is really your spaceship. Your avatar is really just a visual representation of your in-game character, and because Star Citizen is skill based, the loss of your character is more a cosmetic and textural outcome, especially as almost all of the assets you’ve worked hard to accumulate pass on to the beneficiary that you specified when creating your original character.

 

So, you guys can stop the circle jerk now.

Can simplify it even further. It works like lives. You can buy/do missions to get lives back. So the only way you permanently die, is if your an idiot and don't fix it in the ample time you have to build your 'lives' back up.

(I'm sure lives will be called something smexier like longevity or vitality or some such term)

Originally posted by Caldicot
Originally posted by william0532

Star Citizen will now have an arena mode as well. 

 

My "It's going to be hardcore" thought is now rescinded. 

Arena's, a slider(for PvP preference), this game is probably going to be a fun single player game(the sq42), but I'm getting a feeling that it's going to miss completely on the mmo portion of the game.

Can you elaborate on that? I'm also confused by this mixed single-player/MMO thing. All I know is that I want a good MMO space-sim. You know like EVE but actually fun to play.

Yeah, they dropped this 

  • Arena mode: The next generation of Wing Commander’s TrainSim allows pilots to test out their combat skills against friends or strangers in a simulation. Gain valuable combat experience without the downside of losing your ship in the game universe! Place bets on competitions across the galaxy.
Confusion about the mixed single-player mmo thing; This is simple to explain. It's essentially three different modes of playing.
              1. Squadron 42-single player/co-op game(it's a military campaign)
              2. Star Citizen- A persistent universe(MMO), that is one universe(no pvp/rp/pve servers), that is instanced due to technical reasons(amount per instance will be determined during alpha/beta)
              3. Private server- you can host your own server with your friends(your own mmo world)
 
As far as wanting a good space sim= Chris Roberts would be about the only person to get this right, maybe Draben as well(he's making Elite Dangerous, another space sim)
 
As far as wanting EVE but fun= If you mean, eve universe with fun dogfighting, I sincerely doubt this will be EVE like in any shape or form. As far as sandbox gameplay. 

Star Citizen will now have an arena mode as well. 

 

My "It's going to be hardcore" thought is now rescinded. 

Arena's, a slider(for PvP preference), this game is probably going to be a fun single player game(the sq42), but I'm getting a feeling that it's going to miss completely on the mmo portion of the game.

Originally posted by ragz45

Any game that you can buy in game currency with RL money is imho PTW.  It's not that I can't afford 50 bucks here and there.  It's that you have people dropping thousands of dollars on these games to get the best gear & abilities in the game.  The ability to do that just irks me.  (Age of Wushu, Neverwinter, & pretty much any Korean FTP MMO)

And if you think I'm crazy for saying thousands of dollars.  You need to understand a little bit about Korea & China.  In both countries the majority of people playing MMO's are from the very wealthy caste of society.  So dropping thousands of dollars on a game isn't a big deal for them.  Age of Wushu in china has sold glowing fiery swords for 15 grand a pop, and they actually sold.  The same game has sold entire ability sets for 800-1500 USD.

GW2 strikes the perfect medium between these two lines, in that you can trade RL money for Gold, but the game's progression is capped.  And after your have the best stats for your build (very easy to get), the only thing to spend money on is visual fluff.  Which doesn't effect character performance.

So how does the system I described sound? I'm actually looking for people who really hate Pay 2 Win, in any incarnation or interpretation to see if they see the system I described as good.

-Capped amount you can spend a month(hopefully about a sub rate 15 dollars or such)

-Can only buy credits(there is no items for sell in the store, just in game credits, well there is real crap like t-shirts, but nothing in game)

-But the game is Buy to play, you don't have to pay anything.

I'm just wondering if this model bridges the gap well. 

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