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All Posts by Vorthanion

All Posts by Vorthanion

101 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
2018 posts found
If the consumer doesn't buy into your definition, then there is no point in arguing about it.  We consumers represent the money, the target audience, the reason why you are here.  If you can't sell it, then we won't buy it.
Georgeson is the perfect example why developers can't get past raiding as the singular end game design.  The "I Win"  and "I'm Better Than You" crowd flock to that design paradigm and it's what makes the incredibly monotonous raid grind so worthwhile.  Its very existence in game completely trivializes and diminishes other content and play styles.  What gets my goat is that raiding is fairly niche gameplay.  Grouping down to soloing is where the majority are at, yet they get the least amount of focus in most MMO's end game.
Originally posted by Archlyte
Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
Originally posted by Kaladin

MMORPGs are evolving?  No kidding!  Gamers are demanding things to be different all the time, so developers give them that.  Although, gamers do not usually know what they want.  To quote a former Carbine employee, "We gave gamers what they asked for, not what they wanted".


To those saying the MMORPG genre is dead....I don't know how you come to that conclusion at all.  What makes the perfect MMORPG to you might be dead because your ideals are so niche that you would be one of very few to play that sort of game.  But that does not mean the genre is dead.  Get over yourself.

^I couldn't agree more.

These two posters are a good example of the tyranny of the majority that pretty much defines the business that is MMORPGs. There is always the big re-statement about how the business has essentially allowed for natural selection amongst game designs, namely that those games that produce the most dollars from the most amount of people survive.

The thing is that at some point when people approach something for entertainment they are not playing a game because it is successful, they play it because they find it entertaining. When the things that you find entertaining in your hobby disappear, it's not going to breed satisfaction.

The MMORPGs are dead probably comes from the viewpoint of people who at one time played games called MMORPGs, had that experience, and now find that each new release is further and further away from the original conventions. With MOBA influence and broadening of the genre to include anything that allows more than one person to be in the game at once, the definition of the MMORPG has at that point drifted so far as to be near meaningless from the original MMORPG perspective.

New classifications of sub categories would help, and in most things it usually happens. The broadening of the term is making it less useful for description.   

The genre that you once enjoyed is effectively dead, but you need to be happy about it because millions of WoW-bred users are happy.

Yet WoW is old school, as much of its gameplay is derived from EQ1 and as are the types of content and many of its systems and mechanics.  The fact that so many still play WoW still shows how popular old school content is today.  We are merely waiting for someone to take up the torch and make something old school that is worth playing.  Lord know, the crap that has come out recently is hardly palatable to the new school, let alone the combined millions who still play all of the old games like EQ, WoW, Lineage, FFXI and FFXIV, DAoC, LOTRO, UO, AC, AO and the boat load of Asian games that are right out of the old school playbook.

Realistic all the way for me.
Originally posted by SirMarty


Originally posted by Impacthound I don't think TOR will get any bigger in population because of the upcoming movies. The recent J.J. Abrams Star Trek movies did nothing for the Star Trek Online MMO, and the Hobbit trilogy movies did nothing for Lord of the Rings Online's playerbase either. TOR will be 4 years old when Episode 7 comes out, and the other two franchises didn't even air commercials or advertise their respective MMOs before the trailers preceding the movies. If anything, the only game commercials you can expect to see tied to the new Star Wars movie will be Battlefront 3. If you're just talking about the producer's letter/roadmap/cancellation of Shadow Realms, it's all empty smoke and baseless hype at the moment. Blizzard has way more staff & when they cancelled Project Titan in May 2013, it still took ages to reassign staff and launch their WoW expac Warlords of Draenor behind schedule. I don't expect any "big things" from SWTOR in 2015 when the current plans are so empty. They still don't even have a date for Togruta heads released for players, which have been companions and NPCs since launch.



I also firmly and personally believe that due to SWTOR's huge mismanagement when it launched, that lasted until a few months after F2P mind you, it won't ever be able to fully recover from all that scrunity it faced for being the worst launch of an MMO in the history of MMO gaming. SWTOR was riddled with bugs (and so much more than your average amount), low capacity server launches (hence the long queues), too many servers launched to allievate the low capacity servers, p**-poor PvP support, little-to-no PvE endgame with an incomplete Operation (one of the only 2 available); the list goes on.

To this day, most of these issues still exist due to the fact that EAware still believes that a "story-driven" MMO is sustainable. Protip: it's not. The only thing that saved SWTOR from certain doom in 2012 was the cash shop and since most casuals (the vast majority of the game's player base) love instant gratification via spending IRL cash so instead of pay-to-play they can pay-to-customize (something EA is taking advantage of), the profitability of F2P is why SWTOR is still backed by a skeleton dev team. It's sad to say it but it's true.

So to answer your question OP, no, not at all. I believe SWTOR will continue to float by by its average-sized playerbase that'll continue to pour hundreds of thousands of $ for content that should be earned through gameplay rather than through cash that could be put towards at the most expansion packs and DLC and the like.

I believe that if they advertise along with the movie ads and during the coming attractions, they could very well pull in a lot of non-gamers and or non-mmorpg gamers who don't use the usual channels like gaming sites to see what's even out there to play.

Kind of disappointing that they didn't discuss in depth about the new loot system.  It would be nice to see significant rewards available through other content than raids and dungeons.
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Lobotomist

As everyone here predicted:

1. Key people fired

2. Next gen technology cancelled

3. Already making plans for console version


We might see EQN come out but it will not be next gen. It will be poorer than EQ2.

Heavily instanced themepark game optimized to run on consoles


Did you even watch the video? 

EDIT: Because your second statement is really off the mark. 

Typical of many here, someone said it in a post, it's negative so it must be true. To hell with what the company says (those who know), they're all liars anyway.

In an era and genre where companies have often mislead if not outright lied about their products and or services, it's not all that surprising how many people react to PR press releases, especially those based on damage control.

Originally posted by Foomerang


Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Vorthanion All it proves is that Square Enix is willing to try after totally revamping the game.  It does not prove that any other company will be willing to put in the extra effort and cost in offering alternate UI's.
The controls in 1.0 for controller were great, very responsive.  (The 2010 version) So your statement isn't totally accurate.
I was in the beta for 1.0 and played 2.0.  The PC controls for 1.0 were atrocious and were greatly improved for 2.0.  Most companies have always forced PC gamers to adapt to console based UI's, to the point that many give in and use controllers on their PC's.  I don't give in on these kinds of games, I leave.

Are you saying you only play games that use a mouse and keyboard?


If I wanted to play games based on controllers, I'd own a console.  The choice of owning a PC is as much about the hardware as is it is about the software.

Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Ozmodan
You have to be really careful with console versions.  Gamepads have very limited controls, we have seen the horrible UI's that come from console games moved to a PC.  


I guess you haven't played Ffxiv or you would be making such statements. A lot has changed since the early console mmo ports.

That's only one example. Skyrim would be the counter.


There you go, fact is it can be done and has been done right. That one example proves my point.

All it proves is that Square Enix is willing to try after totally revamping the game.  It does not prove that any other company will be willing to put in the extra effort and cost in offering alternate UI's.


Again it proves it can be done, debating whether a company puts the same effort in is irrelevant and and a last ditch effort to not lose face. Again it can be done and has been done no matter how you try you can't disagree lol. I don't really need to say anymore.

How does the ability to do something directly translate into companies actually implementing it?  Yeah, it can be done, but it doesn't matter if  the majority of developers aren't willing to implement it.

Originally posted by Laughing-man
Originally posted by Vorthanion

All it proves is that Square Enix is willing to try after totally revamping the game.  It does not prove that any other company will be willing to put in the extra effort and cost in offering alternate UI's.

The controls in 1.0 for controller were great, very responsive.  (The 2010 version) So your statement isn't totally accurate.

I was in the beta for 1.0 and played 2.0.  The PC controls for 1.0 were atrocious and were greatly improved for 2.0.  Most companies have always forced PC gamers to adapt to console based UI's, to the point that many give in and use controllers on their PC's.  I don't give in on these kinds of games, I leave.

Originally posted by Rattenmann
Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by Elmberry
I think it's important that they let people be able to solo better than in EQ and not have so harsh penalties as EQ had. At least if they wants to keep a healthy population on their servers.

I disagree.  Soloing is the antithesis of what this genre was about in the beginning, and those are the roots which Pantheon intends to return to.

As far as death penalty, they've said it won't be as steep.  I'm hoping that only means losing your corpse won't be a thing.  I'm expecting the need to bind and corpse runs to be there.  If players want the thrill and tension of a dangerous world and high risk, high reward combat, there must be a death penalty that stings.

Exactly this.

A focus on solo gameplay spells fail and nothing else. If you want solo content, freaking play a SOLO-RPG not a MMO-RPG. Sure some solo content is always needed and EQ had that plenty, but don't make solo content as viable as grouping. Grouping is the cornerstone of MMO.


A MMO with focus on soloing is just a bad RPG. Every singleplayer RPG will be FAR better then a MMO that tries to make soloing a priority.

Offering solo content is far from focusing on it.  If they were to offer it, I highly doubt Brad would focus on it.  I'm a firm believer that grouping should be greatly encouraged, but never forced.  It's all about class interdependence, reward systems and progression rates.  You can use these to create content for many styles of play while still focusing on grouping and socializing.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kaledren

I appreciate your nod of approval. However, reading through this post, there seems to be a few that think it is not dying and is just fine as is. That's there opinion anyways, and they are entitled to it.

But if some here are just going to clearly...well, you know. Again, ignore it or block them.

Remember not to block people simply for disagreeing, as that creates echo chambers.  Block should be reserved for people who fail to see logic, reason, or evidence.  If you block people for disagreeing, all you get is an endless echo of self-affirmation, and your ideas never receive appropriate criticism, which could make them better.

Hopefully you wanted discussion (as you said in the OP).

I've leveled some pretty valid, logical criticisms against early MMORPGs' mechanics, which pretty clearly illustrate why the genre shifted significantly away from its early stumblings, and ended up some place far more enjoyable to most players.

That was never the point in the first place.  There is still a market for virtual worlds.  No one has contested that the genre has headed in other directions.  I strongly believe we are a money making market worthy of pursuit.

Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by SavageHorizon
Originally posted by Ozmodan
You have to be really careful with console versions.  Gamepads have very limited controls, we have seen the horrible UI's that come from console games moved to a PC.  


I guess you haven't played Ffxiv or you would be making such statements. A lot has changed since the early console mmo ports.

That's only one example. Skyrim would be the counter.


There you go, fact is it can be done and has been done right. That one example proves my point.

All it proves is that Square Enix is willing to try after totally revamping the game.  It does not prove that any other company will be willing to put in the extra effort and cost in offering alternate UI's.

Originally posted by Pepeq
Isn't this topic debated hourly on this website without the need of a column?  I mean really, why not just cut and paste the pages upon pages of back and forth forum tag into one long piece and call it an article.  What's next... Is PVP Doomed?  Is the PC Doomed?  Is MMORPGs Doomed?  You have 20 years worth of columns just from your readers banter alone.  Apparently we like repeating ourselves so much that we don't see articles like these for what they are.

No one twisted your arm to read or participate in this thread about said column.

What I find interesting is that the most popular MMORPGs currently out are the ones that were originally designed around the P2P or B2P business model.  I think that is further proof that content design is very much affected by the intended business model.
I hope the magic system doesn't imply that spell effects will be monochromatic.
I'm confused.  The PC version of this game already looks a lot like a console game.
I'm pretty sure there is a huge audience for massive PvP games.  What I don't see is that audience wanting it in the form of an RPG or any type of game that requires character building and gear gathering from PvE content.  I have also yet to see a game offer both PvE and PvP without alienating one or the other due to many obvious reasons.
Originally posted by Howbadisbad


Originally posted by Kiyoris

Originally posted by Howbadisbad

You go to a car dealer, you buy a $40,000 car. The car dealership never gives you the car. You go to the cops...instead of the cops doing something about it......the cops tell you.... "I prefer to live in a society where we're given the freedom to choose for ourselves whether make those decisions. " You're telling me that is a good society?
  Yes it is a good society get burned, they become homeless and never have kids Humanity progresses.
Oh boy, I have read some stupid stuff over the years on the internet.


But I've never seen anyone protect scammers by claiming people who get scammed and become "homeless" have only themselves to blame.

Claiming scamming people "progresses humanity" is just icing on the cake.


Nice strawman

Yes, if you get scammed you only have yourself to blame, YOU bought into the scam, you were not forced, it was your decision, and your fault.

Not all kickstarters are scams, its up to you to decide which ones are real or not. Or maybe we should shut down all charities because some of them were scams?

The very premise of your argument applies to the scammer as well.  Perpetrating the scam is even more heinous that falling for it and should be punished.

The way you guys talk about this, you'd think that the victim who fails to lock his door, deserves to not only have his things stolen, but the thief is not held responsible for his part.

I'm liking it.  Wish you were at the end of the development cycle rather than the beginning.
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