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All Posts by Sythion

All Posts by Sythion

21 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
420 posts found
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Sythion

I agree with OP.

SWG was objectively the best MMORPG for people who want to play house, and are too embarrassed to go to Kids 'R Us and buy a real doll house.

Seriously, you should just get over your fears of being judged and try it. The tactile experience just blows anything MMOs have out of the water!

Prime example of folks that don't get it. Instead of trying to even understand at all, they just throw ridicule around. Not that I'm actually replying to the poster, as by this example, there's no mature discussion to be had with them

And this is a prime example of being unable to see value in satire. MMORPG staff is also guilty of this for considering this trolling.

The original post was about how perfect SWG was; and it truly was perfect for a select audience: those who want to play a systemized version of house. 7 of the 8 "objectively" better points were about visual customization and building stuff.

The point is that if you think SWG is objectively the best mmorpg ever, then you do not understand what the word objectvely means, and you are incapable of considering other people's points of view when evaluating a game. If you cannot consider other people's point of view, then your own point of view is completely worthless to anyone but you, and you are just wasting everyone's time by expressing it.

 

What Narrative Science is doing is far more complex than what would be needed for an AI director. There is a HUGE difference between making an AI that can make narrative sense out of generic data, and one that has to use data which it has control over to create a narrative.

With an understanding of various story structures (either algorithmic or database driven) and proper relationships between objects, the "core" work is basically done, and it would scale extremely well into the MMO realm. Creating an actual game around this is the more challenging part.

Reason why MMOs disappoint the masses here?

Most of the Grognards here were in love with the games of yesteryear because those games gave them something that they needed. That "something" is different for everyone, and could be friendships, romances, a feeling of adventure (requiring more than a little bit of imagination), a sense of accomplishment or prowess, etc. 

Now that need either no longer exists, or cannot be filled due to your status and age in life. I personally think that imagination is one of these fleeting ephemeral parts of our mind that diminish when we age, but still feels all too real when wrapped in the emotions of nostalgia.

Why does every MMO disappoint you?

You've changed.

Denial suits you.
Originally posted by Reizla

Personally I'd love to see a new MMORPG to be launched that I can stick with for the coming year or 2 (or more), but so far there's not been one that even had the slightest hint of the developers to get a 'long-term' commitment from their players. The only one I see myself playing for a long period of time is FFXIV:ARR, and only because of the many classes you can level, but even for that one I fear that level cap per class is reached quickly...

 

Please note when I say "you" I mean the generally malcontent "you kids get off my grass" posters on this site, and not you personally.

This is where your mind (and your judgement of quality) has driven far off track: you are working from the assumption that there was some magical collection of features or balance of class roles that made your game of choice from yesteryear infinitely better than anything released afterwards. In reality, the playerbases were loyal because of one reason: there were no other options.

If everquest/uo/ac/daoc/swg relaunched today with better graphics they would fail miserably and not come close to the stable subscriber base they had in their prime, probably because of the same features you worship. Developers, market researchers, and even a majority of voters (not posters) realize this. You will be a malcontent with opinions that are of little value until you realize this as well.

If nothing else, this thread illustrates the psychographics of some mmo players.

A lot of the old school "hardcore" (I think that term is not accurate at all). Do not want to enjoy themselves while plating a game. They are often looking to feel holes in their life in either their lack of friendships (casual or deep, depending on extraversion or introversion), or the extremely important human need to feel productive in a meaningful way.

 

I can respect that. However if that makes you feel like you are somehow better than the rest of us, then you get my pity for your self-esteem issues instead.

People simply get indoctrinated with particular aspects of gameplay. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has far more to do with age, emotional state, and relative gaming options than with any actual coherent virtue. It makes sense that those on the J side of the judging-perceiving spectrum (and to a lesser extent the F side of the thinking-feeling spectrum) would follow this train of thought: I enjoy this game, therefore it is great and Anything different is bad.

 

Such people will never accept anything, because their opinions were formed and crystalized long ago, most likely when they were in their late teens to early twenties, when they still had room to try new things without influence from tainted experiences. There is very little room for self analysis and so very little room to improve there tastes.

 

The best we can hope for is that they can accept that their opinion is only useful if they can identify the few lost gems of the past generation that can still be of value today. Otherwise they are just old men yelling "Rock and roll music is the devil stealing your soul!"

Damn you storybricks

Horror in any real sense is tied directly to what we care about. Secret world is not scary, because you cannot lose anything.

 

No mmo will ever be frightening from a story perspective until all of the following issues sre solved:

  • An mmo has to make us actually care about something. Static quests inspired by nothing but backstory will never be able to accomplish this.
  • An mmo has to be able to make us actually lose something we care about.
  • An mmo has to provide choice with unpredictable consequences. We have to know that its possible to fail in some matter if we make the wrong choices or perform poorly. No take-backs allowed.
Basically today's mmos are safety sitcoms from the fifties, and they won't evolve until someone creates 'Lost' forty years from now.
 

I'm actually going to say 4e DnD (which I'm sure makes most posters here cringe). Mostly I think that's because there is no good PnP gaming system in existance, past or present.

I believe that fluff has little to do with mechanics, which is essentially what much of the customization in 3.5/pathfinder is: fluff expressed through mechanics.

I also think that out of combat play should be rules lite.

Most importantly I want meaningful customization and balanced mechanics. I don't want to simply pick a class and be like every other archetypal character of that class that anyone has ever made. Likewise, I dont' want to be able to make a character so uber powerful that the game becomes meaningless.

 

So 4th does all of this better than any other system, especially the balance. Unfortunately, it brings to light a couple of issues that I didn't notice (mostly due to how bad mechanics were in 3.5).

  1. If all characters progress at equal power, and enemies progress at a rate equal to your level, then you are basically defined by your level. This is a fundamental problem with almost every RPG ever made, whether PnP or computer. Fortuantely it wasn't noticable until 4th edition brought it to light with razor sharp balance.
  2. If all character types have the ability to do similar things then they will all feel "samey." With the amount of side materials released for 4th in such a short amount of time, it became possible to do almost everything with every class, and that made it hard to show characters standing out of the crowd.
I believe Wizards has realized these two flaws (as well as the abominations that made 3.5 horrible to play), and I'm optimistic about 5th edition.
Originally posted by aylwynn
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

Only IMHO, this game last like 3 months, then became "old" or "boring" so not exciting or fun for many of us. 

If a game is fun for three months and then gets boring, that's pretty good, don't you think?  A lot of games won't make it to three hours before they get boring.

gotta remember on this site if you can't play 18 hours a day for 10 years its a complete waiste and a total and complete failure.. 3 months + on ANY game is good in my book

 

Yeah, it depends on the playtype. Casual or hardcore?

I was playing like 5 to 8hrs a day. And thats whay too much for GuildWars 2 in my opinion. As an hardcore gamer I actually try to look for a game which binds me more than three months. Since GuildWars 2 I know that I need much more challange in MMORPGs. Like ""wasting"" 4hrs in a dungeon or looking 2hrs for a healer and beating up everybody in PvP for 3 to 4 hrs.

Actually its not even wasting to me because I love challange ... And challange eats time. I didn't have that much challange in GuildWars 2. I had the best time if I played like 2 or 4 years with the same community in the same game.

LFG != challenge

Originally posted by TribeofOne
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

Only IMHO, this game last like 3 months, then became "old" or "boring" so not exciting or fun for many of us. 

If a game is fun for three months and then gets boring, that's pretty good, don't you think?  A lot of games won't make it to three hours before they get boring.

 

if GW2 was a single player game then 3 month would be great, but I doubt that is what Anet was aiming for.

Like a majority of posters on this site, you have a broken mentality towards mmorpgs with unrealistic expectations.

Stop looking for a game to consume your life. Start looking for one that gives you enjoyable experiences, and ride those experiences for as long as you can.

Edit: And to clarify, I believe 3 months of solid play is an enviable success if the alternative is two years of horrible play. That may have worked for people back when crappy games were considered fun (cough... cough... EQ), but it doesn't anymore.

Pretty obvious here we are looking at two very similar feature sets. The gameplay experiences will be very similar. There are some small exceptions.

ESO seems like it will fit in better with players who are motivated by progression, whereas GW2 will (still) be a fit for people motivated by gameplay.

The "feeling" you get from the respective gameworlds may vary, but that has almost nothing to do with any inherent quality of the games or lore themselves--it's about how old you were and how much emotional energy you have invested or are willing to invest in the lore. Neither TES or GW universes are particularly brilliant, but they can seem that way if you let them.

Originally posted by mistersalty1
theres no end game. once you hit 80 theres nothing to do. dont expect anything different than what you did in the starter zone all the way up to 80. 

That's excellent news since I've been enjoying myself from the starter zone!

I would hate it if suddenly I was forced to run the same stale dungeon over and over again.

It's nice that a game is enjoyable from the beginning, I'm just sorry that so many hardcore themepark MMOers have been conditioned to think that no game is fun until endgame.

Will there be any way to restrict who has access to content that I create via variables set elsewhere?

For instance, can I make it so that a certain quest/dungeon/adventure/whatever is only available if players took a certain action in a previous quest?

Likewise, can I have the content inside a dungeon depend on exteral factors, such as an NPC appearing/not appearing depending...

Originally posted by Randayn

It's really funny how if you dont agree with the popular vote, you are deemed to have a personality disorder, when in fact, when you are infected by the pop culture, you have no personality....you simply mirror those around you...so great.

As for the poster that mentioned artsy bands, artists, people that try to divulge from the pop culture...it is done intentionally and is, in effect, a branching out of the pop culture.

Not to get too personal, but Im the lead singer of a band that lashes out against the pop culture, but doesnt do it for publicity, or else we'd be everywhere and no sooner become the pop culture....we do it cuz we really feel that way.  It's disguisting to see so many people imitate the characters portraid on tv...to regurgitate quotes and news they heard on their tv like it's gospel....to know it's affecting MMOPRG's now (which is one of my only safe havens for such things) is a bit disturbing.

Here is one of my lyrics I wrote to describe such a thing:

"Shoot my paste on your face, rub it into your drooling dead cell, tv receptor"....I honestly feel that way....Im not trying to be different...if anything, I'd love to see more people think this way....to think that Im "mad" at the pop culture is crazy....Im just 100% against it and feel its a brainless tyranny taken over through consumerism.

If this is some diatribe about humanity needing to rise above group identification or communal hobbies then it is you who needs to wake up. We are creatures that absolutely rely on such practices to build bonds outside of our own families, allowing us to band together in much larger groups (such as countries) then we would otherwise. There is more to such groups than pastimes, obviously, but the core reason behind pop culture is the same as religion or national pride -- we are far more influenced by the attitudes, likes and dislikes of those we admire, care for and respect than by our own minds. This happens at a quasi-subconscious level and is true for all humans with the possible exceptions of autistics and psychopaths.

Originally posted by Sp!k3
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

To the OP...

 

The majorrity of MMO players is actually very happy with things like dungeon finders, instance quests crossrealm interaction and such

 

 

So dont say We need, but refer to me and my friends, or even the very lonely I.

 

When do people like the OP start to realise they are currently a very small minority.

"The majorrity" you say - well than you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles... what an irony?!

 

 

 

"The majorrity," you say? Well then you've just called most of the worlds population imbeciles. What's an irony?

Fixed.

Originally posted by smh_alot
People like to forget that a lot of new mechanics and features were introduced as a solution for old problems and annoyances.

 

- Old school MMO gamers started to detest mob grinding for leveling. That's why MMO's like EQ2 and WoW introduced quest based leveling and advertised it.

 

- Old school MMO gamers started to get fed up with enforced grouping and sometimes hour(s) long waits to do anything fun, so solo based leveling got expanded upon.

 

- Harsh death penalties, long travel times, even if they helped give that vibe of a dangerous, vast world, there was a reason that they were gotten rid of in follow-up MMO's, and that's because a lot of the old school MMO gamers disliked them.

 

- Old school MMO gamers weren't happy with spot camping especially in dungeons, so instanced dungeons were introduced, all to yourself and your group.

 


You can get rid of those features, from quests to instanced dungeons etc, but they were introduced as solutions to problems that people had in the first place, and they were received with relief and satisfaction by old school MMO gamers when these features first got introduced.

 

If the issues with the old mechanics weren't regarded as annoyances and problems in the first place, those new features would never have been introduced and happily welcomed by (a very large part of) that first generation of MMO gamers in the first place.

 


So I wonder how an MMO that got rid of all those features again and is made like an oldschool MMO will truly do, and if the first generation MMO gamers that are now pining for such an MMO would be happy or if they'd realize how much they disliked those issues and annoyances for which a lot of later features were one possible solution for. AFter all, MMO games like Vanguard or the EQ classic servers that take you back to that oldschool MMO gaming were minimally successful as well.

Thank you for this clear explanation.

I think the core takeaway from this discussion (and every one like it), is that there are core gamers and core socializers.

Core socializers are the ones looking to play sandbox games or old school games (which weren't even sandboxy, but more chatty because there was often nothing else to do.)

There is a small subsection of gamers who like the very precise, cautious, patient sort of difficulty that EQ brought. They are generally dissatisfied with other forms of difficulty.

I name this trailer "The Road to Pretension"

For the sequel let's get Tom Hanks involved.

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