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All Posts by Gardavsshade

All Posts by Gardavsshade

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644 posts found

I tried a monk, several of them. I deleted every one of them before they got past level ten. I just don't like the class.

omg, I just admitted I play this. opps.

The hype on this site is from the herd of Space Whales that make this part of the Internet ocean their home. Same Whales that have been defending crowd funding and limitless F2P cash shop spending. To me this game looks like chapter 11 for Players and I am going to avoid this one like it's a shark.

If the Space Whales want to chase this plankton then cool for them. Hopefully they have fun for all the money they are spending already and yet to spend.

Originally posted by tawess
Originally posted by ReallyNow10

There is no evidence that an "old school" game would have few players.  Just because some do, you must also take into account ancient graphics and clunky gameplay, which are the real drivers of sub losses.

If anything, story-driven gameplay has driven countless big title MMO's into the F2p realm.  You can only repeat a story so many times before it gets old, and for some players, the first time through feels old and fake. 

The OP is right.

To be brutally blunt and honest... That does not matter one itty bitty iota.... Unless you are self/crowd funded and self publishing.


Because you need to explain to INVESTORS why you with such brazen bravado leave a huge amount of potential revenue off the table. Because you see... They hold the money and they do the risk calculations.. They do not like your idealistic "maybe" as an answer to. "will they come". Heck if anything WildStar will have not only closed that door but welded it shut and put a dragon guarding it.


I agree many big MMO´s have had to switch from sub to F2P... But honey dear... Story has NOTHING to do with that.


Care to have a hint what has... Investors. F2P generate a lot more revenue then sub... the choice is easy.

You know what makes me not want to play MMOs anymore? Take a guess.

The overly prevalent influence of Investors and their associates.


I agree with the OP on most of his points.

Originally posted by syriinx

I play mmorpgs, rpgs, and strategy games.

I dont see it being a fit for those genres at all.

People may say it will add to the immersion, but immersion is more about the quality of the game world which very, very few games get right.  The so called 'VR' will more than likely detract from the immersion because of the uncanny valley effect.

FPS are a different story, i can see VR enhancing that style of game.  But I don't enjoy that genre at all.  Flight/Space sims too.


I have no interest in FPS games or Console /Controller based games even if they are made like a MMO, I have no interest in OR or other like devices.

Originally posted by toastngravy

Just..feel required to throw it out there because just briefly skimming this thread has some huge misconceptions already.


This game is not instanced/hub based. Sorta.


There IS a main hub that WILL let you go into a large number of instanced quests and missions but there are still going to be X number (I can't recall what it was..7-10?) large open zones like other games. Just consider them dungeons. You know, those instanced thing every game [citation needed] has now? 


Other than that, I didn't read far enough into the thread to see any other information people have incorrect.

Thanks for info. I have had time to consider what MMO I would wish to buy/subscribe to/play.


The only MMOs I will buy/subscribe to from now on are MMOs with very little Instancing, to describe it better... MMOs like Wurm Online or MMOs like the old ORIGINAL Dark Age of Camelot with the Dungeon Darkness Falls, a dungeon open to everyone, all three realms at once.

That's the only MMOs I will ever spend money on again.... MMOs where everyone can enter every area at once, no private Instances, no solo quest Instances, no splitting up out Groups just to get a quest done because the Devs refused to make the quest group friendly.

If MMOs are never again made truly open world then I will never again spend money on the new ones.

Skyforge does not qualify for the type of MMO I am looking for. It might end up being a great game, a fun game, but it is not the game I am looking for.

"How would you like a really huge game world?"


Got one. Xanadu Server of Wurm Online. It can take half a day of real life time to get from one place to another on Xan.

Finally a server world big enough to actually deserve the adjective of "Massively". Player alterable persistent world too.


However... if the OP or someone they know are looking to go big with something new please keep us informed. I like to explore new worlds ;)

I really do hope someone makes a virtual world that takes weeks to traverse.


Depends who you ask as you may get many different answers.

In my opinion, from my own MMO experiences... PvP and Non-PvP (PvE) cannot be on equal footing, cannot have equal attention and focus from the Devs because everytime in MMOs I have seen Devs attempt this "balancing act between PvP and PvE" neither PvP content nor non-PvP(PvE) content get fair treatment and proper balancing and everything just gets messed up overall. Sometimes neither gameplay style is worth playing because the Devs kept bouncing back and forth.

Another observation of mine is this: Many times the worst problem is the Players themselves... some PvPers hate non-PvPers(PvEers) and visa versa. The non-PvEers want to go after the PvPers like they're criminals.The extremes of the two groups usually don't get along well and I can see it being a huge headache for the Devs. Yes many Players do both PvP and PvE content and enjoy choice but there far too many that are in the camps of the extreme ends of this difference of gameplay style. Better to separate these groups from the beginning of the MMO because the extremes or these two groups want very different gameplay experiences from the MMOs... generally speaking of course. (everything I am saying here is "generally speaking").

IMO Devs should pick either PvP or non-PvP(PvE) and stick with their decision come hades or high water. Better for all concerned.

Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Gardavsshade

I would have played AA.... but I will NOT play any Eastern or Russian MMOs.

AA only problem with me is where it's from, but I admit my indepth knowledge of the game is lacking because I took this one off my radar as soon as I found out where is was developed.

Because where you're born apparently has a huge effect on your ability to make a good video game. How wonderfully open minded of you.


Do you know my reasons for why I won't play any MMOs other than Western MMOs? No you do not. I have never on this site offered that information. Believe what you wish, but it's not about being closed minded.

Originally posted by doodphace
Originally posted by Gardavsshade

What a tease. This is almost cruel.

We shall see what pans out over time. Not getting my hopes up.

Why would you get your hopes of over something posted by a completely random internet forum posters, with absolutly 0 factual basis, and also happens to be legally impossible?

People will believe any made up headline these days it seems lol.

You apparently think it's sad that I got my hopes up just a little bit with this forum thread. Why would you care? It did get my hopes up a bit for a few minutes because I very much enjoyed SWG and would love to see a re-boot. That's not wrong or evil.

I also don't believe in anything remotely close to "Legally Impossible". In U.S. with right Law Firm and plenty of clout like Disney has any contract can be amended or modified.

You are correct that the OP did not include facts or sources, links, etc. That is why I will tell the Star Wars Galaxies fan inside me to go back to sleep.

I would have played AA.... but I will NOT play any Eastern or Russian MMOs.

AA only problem with me is where it's from, but I admit my indepth knowledge of the game is lacking because I took this one off my radar as soon as I found out where is was developed.

Has AA failed in the East where it was made I wonder?

Has AA failed in Russia where it was launched as a second "zone"?

These questions I think are more important than whether it failed here in the West.

What a tease. This is almost cruel.

We shall see what pans out over time. Not getting my hopes up.

Originally posted by Vahrane
      The amount of games catering to people with limited time and attention spans has grown exorbitantly. Big numbers, gaudy armor, and instances allowing for no outside interference have become the industry standard. The original mmo gamers have, for the most part, moved on to RL after an absolutely astonishing dismissal of their opinions by the aforementioned industry which, as with all businesses, seeks to maximize shareholder wealth by designing games that anyone can succeed at (quantity of players pays the bills while quality design cost more money and time, simple cost benefit analysis there). Some of us wish it weren't so, but that isn't going to change anything as evidenced by the past decade. Even newer games that claim to champion old styles of gameplay continually fail to deliver the experience they were trying to emulate in the first place. 

Vahrane has stated the essence of my opinion on this topic far better than I ever could. Well said Vahrane.

Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by NagilumSadow

From 2012:


"When BioWare created Star Wars: The Old Republic, the developer intended for it to be a huge blockbuster MMORPG, with millions of subscribers dutifully paying their fees for years and years. However, BioWare spent most of its money on single player story content, wrapped up in all the worst time-sink tropes that pervade the MMORPG genre. Design elements that players suffer through [...]"

I dont get it, is that time of the day again?.  

Thats from 2012, we are in the 2014 and SWTOR is among the most played MMOs on the market. 

If I remember correctly EA posts how many players Log In to the game, not how many hours each Player spends playing the game.

In a MMO how many hours each Player spends playing the game is what really matters. I myself just update the client and log in every week or so just to see what new items are available, but other than that I don't actually play the game or spend time in it nor do I spend money on it.

If EA is just reporting log ins... does that really mean it's actually "among the most played MMOs on the market"? No it doesn't.  It just means the log in server is busy and those numbers look good to Stock Holders who don't know much about MMOs.


And what does $100+ in revenues tell us? *drop the mic* k thx bye. 

It tells me for now SW:TOR is doing well, so calm down. I am not crying the death knell for SW:TOR. I was questioning whether it's enough to just count log ins or if better metrics should be used.

and I don't leave these boards simply because you or anyone else tells me to kthxbye. Rude.

Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by NagilumSadow

From 2012:


"When BioWare created Star Wars: The Old Republic, the developer intended for it to be a huge blockbuster MMORPG, with millions of subscribers dutifully paying their fees for years and years. However, BioWare spent most of its money on single player story content, wrapped up in all the worst time-sink tropes that pervade the MMORPG genre. Design elements that players suffer through [...]"

I dont get it, is that time of the day again?.  

Thats from 2012, we are in the 2014 and SWTOR is among the most played MMOs on the market. 

If I remember correctly EA posts how many players Log In to the game, not how many hours each Player spends playing the game.

In a MMO how many hours each Player spends playing the game is what really matters. I myself just update the client and log in every week or so just to see what new items are available, but other than that I don't actually play the game or spend time in it nor do I spend money on it.

If EA is just reporting log ins... does that really mean it's actually "among the most played MMOs on the market"? No it doesn't.  It just means the log in server is busy and those numbers look good to Stock Holders who don't know much about MMOs.


OP, firstly.... are you yourself a MMORPG Player or a Developer? I personally don't want anyone who isn't a Player or a Dev asking for surveys to be filled out because I personally think we have had too many people involve themselves with this genre of gaming that were not themselves a real part of the genre as either a Player or a Dev. Sorry, Investors don't count in my book.

Enough said on that.


I will honor your request. I will answer you question here because for me there is often more than one correct answer. If you chose to not include my answers in your data collection I take no offense.

Q1) : All. Each 'timeframe" has it's place and can be a good setting for a MMO. Why limit this? Could even combine a couple or more...

Q2) : A fusion of the following: a persistent Virtual World with very little Instancing, Online Game and with Massive amounts of Players, a 3D world with openness and no invisible walls, third person and first person view, and a set of game rules that are fair and consistant that allow both Sandbox gameplay and Themepark gameplay.

Q3) : Weapons, or more appropriately Technology, is dependent on Question One and the Tech Level of the Game world.

Q4) : Depends very much on weapon/Technology choices.

Q5) : I see usefulness for both tab-target and aiming schemes myself. Depends on the gameworld, on the Tech level and weapons choices, etc.

Q6) : MMORPGs are all about "Time" in my opinion. MMOs aren't quick games nor do I believe they should be. Players that seek quick games I feel should look to other genres for their game enjoyment. What some Players see as grinding I see as necessary ingame activities derived from interaction with the game world. E.G.: Wurm Online and sawing planks for a house. In that MMORPG building things is a necessary part of how that MMO is Designed and Played and I see activities such as the time spent sawing planks as very much appropriate for that MMO. Another E.G. : The time spent in a MMO mining ore for a craft such as Blacksmithing... if it's too quick to acquire the ore I view the crafting system as shallow and therefore long term wise meaningless. MMOs should be anything but shallow and meaningless.

Bottom line opinion from me... if Players complain too much about how much time it takes to do things in a MMO then a MMO is NOT the game they are really seeking. For their own sake they should move on.

Q7) : Buy the game as a retail product and then subscription with the ability to still log into your account and into the MMO with greatly restricted abilities such as LotRO has F2P and Subscription options. I do feel however that the F2P restrictions should be heavy. I also think it a good idea that optional cosmetic only items sold in an ingame cash shop... I emphasize cosmetic only. (If cash shops in MMOs limited their items to cosmetic only then I would have no beef with them, I won't use the items ever, but there's o reason why others can't enjoy the items).

Q8) : Loading screens to me are a non issue unless the MMO is an overly instanced nightmare... solution... avoid Instances... MMOs in my opinion should have very few if any and modern MMOs have way too many.


Good Luck with your survey.



Originally posted by Strayfe

It still hasn't solved it's biggest problem, and the reason that I and many others quit and want nothing to do with it.

It's still a single player game with lousy group incentives, and no community. 

Yes. A MMORPG created from a Single Player RPG that was never meant for a group or a community. I can see exactly where the problem is even though I couldn't put my finger on the problem until now. Something ate at the back of my brain about ESO, something told me it was going to have it rough with many problems and that nagging feeling of wrongness was reason number two why I chose not to try ESO. ES games should always be single player because it's world was made completely around the concept of single player only. I don't know why something so simple to grasp never occurred to me until now.

Reason number one why I would not try ESO is that it's a Zenimax game... a different discussion and I won't elaborate on that now.


I do hope my friend who plays ESO and all the rest of you who play may you enjoy the game as it is, and I hope it continues to get better for the Players.

Originally posted by delete5230

Like the topic, if the older community based mmos did away with the F2P Cash Shops and went back to subscriptions would you go back.

I know I would in an instant, what about you ?




D&D Online

Vanguard came back

insert other game here


Basically what I'm asking is, did F2P kill your mmo ?

Yes. I support the funding of MMOs through Subscriptions, I am opposed to F2P and even B2P because no one gets something for nothing and MMOs have continuous expenses that need to be paid. I feel Cash Shops are wrong for MMOs because I believe every single virtual item or feature a character can acquire should be acquirable through normal gameplay and not through some external method such as a cash shop.

As for the games you list...

EQ1, EQ2, and Vanguard are SOE products and I no longer do business with SOE as a MMO publisher as of 3 years ago.

D&D online I tried and quit because I do not like gameplay of D&D unless it's gamerules 2.5 or previous.

DAoC I would subscribe to and play if and only if they had a dedicated permanent server with game features of pre-ToA and before.


I am currently paying Subs on 2 different MMOs consistently right now. That's how much I believe in Subs.

Originally posted by Makidian
cash shop ruined mmo's forever : (

For me personally THIS. Worst "Feature" ever.

Thank you for sharing this information. Much appreciated Jean Prior.


As for your questions..."Isn't the whole point of having a test server and releasing content there and asking players to test it before it goes live to ensure you don't have to do major updates after it launches?  Was Turbine not getting enough decent feedback from the players who participated or weren't there enough players to provide suitable bug reports?"


If you know the full history of this MMORPG, both the Player's side of it and the Dev's side of it, and how they related to each other over years through all the changes since Launch, then you can figure out the answers you seek.

Originally posted by DocBrody

can you even believe it?


Angels Fall First

I have been playing this Ut3 MOD forever, always wondered, why, WHY is no one turning this into a commercial product?

Now it's happening. Unbelievable. The game? Star Citizen.


Tactical FPS, ship hoarding, ship boarding, station defending, cap ship conquering with assault teams, flying ships through a gigantic universe, multi crew ships, guilds and organizations, plus mining, trading.


This is the game. This is the BDSSE. Thank you Chris Roberts, you're da man.

We shall see. All SC is right now is a clever kickstarter campaign and a MMO development project. When it launches, and not until, then it will be possibly "The greatest space adventure MMO ever". Not all MMO projects launch and some of the ones I looked forward to the most ended up being vaporware.

We shall see. I wish the project well.

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