Originally posted by Wildabout

I believe a large part of our community is waiting for their next game and believing this may be it!

    Sure most of us continue to play an MMO or maybe bounce between a few. Still looking for that feeling we used to have when a game consumed us. We loved it :). Whether it was SWG, EQ, WoW or some other game that got us hooked. The feeling is gone and it’s time for something new to fill the void. I believe a lot of us felt and wanted GW2 to be the one to do this. A beautiful game that has many innovative features, it just didn’t completely fill the void. Now WildStar is on the horizon and looks to be the game that can finally bring back that feeling of excitement and community. So far the game looks to have most of the innovative features from GW2 and all the things we wanted from our past loves, as well as some great new features. Is this the one? Is this the game we've all been waiting for? What do you think?

Large part of our community, perhaps. It's SciFi a welcome change, seems to have many features Players have been asking for...

But it's a damn cartoon. Fails right there for me. I am not interested in playing and paying for any Cartoon Art style MMOs, no matter even if this MMO is the genre's best one in 10 years.

For those Players that cartoon graphics are not a big deal, I say enjoy.

Originally posted by Robokapp
THIS....IS....BETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

NOT ....WHEN THEY OPEN ......THE CASH SHOP FOR BUSINESSSSSSSSSSSSS IT'S NOTTTTTTT

It's as much a BETA Testing Phase as I am a Alien from Jupiter.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
How much did ea pay you to put a game from 2011, that sucks, on a best of 2013 list?

Also eve, gw2 & tsw aren't from 2013 either.

This.

In my opinion.... ANY list that this website makes up will undoubtedly be a list of which MMO Publisher paid them the most money vs. who paid the least or none at all.

Sorry MMORPG.com Staff... but it's blatantly obvious you have been "bought and paid for". Sorry but that's how I see it.

Hey OP...

Have you ever played EA's Sims Medieval? During the Intro Patrick Stewart does the narration, and he says it best....

"People are Dumb."

There's your answer.

Originally posted by Gravarg
Someday I hope people will learn it is a lot more satisfying to earn things instead of cheating or getting it for free...

I hoped for the same thing too for many many years. Then I remembered the story that even Eve (not the game) cheated and got her hubby to cheat as well...

That's when I got really cynical and realized the whole species is just plain borked and fubar. No sense in hoping for trustworthiness and decency from People with screwed up genetics. Even though many People say the story itself is a fabrication, the evidence in the real world confirms the story's basic premise everyday.

What's happening in NeverWinter is perfectly predictable and of of course Perfect World wasn't ready for it.

Even though I am an old Ad&D fan from many years ago, I am now very happy that I made the decision to NOT Play Neverwinter Online. I was tempted, oh yes....

Originally posted by reploidx
So no one answered the question. What are they supposed to do? How are they supposed to test their cash shop to make it work?

Yes your question WAS answered. It was answered in the first few posts.

Beta Testing Phase is for Beta Testing of a MMO to prepare it for Launch, at which time (launch) a MMO Publisher can start up the cash shop and use it to bring in revenue.

Beta Testing historically is NOT for opening the cash shop early to start making money while the MMO Publishers say they are "Beta Testing". Such is the way of Scammers.

Only "Yes Men/Women" usually seek such a position, and also usually People of that kind are more than likely to also be very "popular". Think High School Prom King and Queen.

Mostly harmless and pointless all at the same time unfortunately. Same crap, Different School.

Originally posted by allendale5

It is sad that so many gamers have become basically indifferent to others in the game, and I don't feel that this anti-social wave of behavior is limited to gaming.  Just walk into any restaurant these days and you see couples not even speaking with one another; they just sit there tapping away on their iphones.  Same is true in waiting rooms or any social environment in which people used to converse regularly.  

This is the main cause of it... Real Life Culture is becoming anti-social more and more, at least on a face to face basis, because of our Tech. If the Earth ever experiences an "ELE" event or similar then we all are in for a rough ride just with learneing how to get along with each other without cellphone and comps. Kindergarten will look tame in comparison.

Now I think as far as MMOs go, add the following: Years ago when MMOs were new we all grouped together and fought together to have fun and win, but over the years Players were less and less willing to spend the time needed, and work with everyone, now ....  it's easier for Players to pick and choose which Players are "exceptable" and "make the grade". DPS meters and other 3rd party apps make MMOs into a pass/fail experience rather than a group shared experience. Add to the recipe an attitude that basically says  "It's MY time, I am not going to spend it with some Player that haven't learned how to do this dungeon or can't get in the top 90% of Server dps numbers!!!". Or my personal favorite "Hey you! Hurry Up or I am going to kick you, stop reading the quest dialog/cutscene, I am not going to spend 2 seconds more doing this quest than I absolutely have to!"

and you wonder why some Players like myself, who used to be very social in MMO Gaming, now spend most of time solo?

MMOs are all about "Time". I have said that before in older posts and I will say it again. We spend Time doing quests, or hunting as in Wurm Online, we spend time crafting or building, we spend time in dugeons or in arenas, but most importantly we are supposed to be spending time with other Players. If a Player doesn't have the real life Time to spend playing a MMO, then maybe they shouldn't be playing a MMO, maybe another form of entertainment would be be to their liking. When I join a group in ANY MMO I am prepared to group with anyone, no matter what their skill level is, no matter how long it takes to finish the objective/mission/dungeon. Why? Because I believe that how's it's supposed to be done in a MMO.

Too bad 99% of current Players in MMOs don't see it the same as I do. Now Players get evaluated and are either considered acceptable to group with or considered a waste of pixels. Now Player like me are considered just too slow, too weak, or too inexperienced to be beneficial to a Group.... and if a Player can't group and not be kicked... in other words group and stay to finish and learn... then Players may never learn how to do this or that Dungeon or Op.

Players get sick of getting kicked when they are trying to learn and trying to do their best. Players get sick of being told they aren't good enough. When MMOs were populated with mostly Geeks and Nerds and Dorks most everyone was welcome. Not anymore. Eventually some of us just go solo, and solo is usually interpreted as anti-social. In no way did we ever wish to be considered that.

That's part of the answer the OP seeks.

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by asrlohz
At the time being Camelot Unchained isn't even a proof of concept. I look forward to how it will develope in the future. Hopefully it won't turn out like the Kickstarted games that ignored some of their promises.

They need to start focusing more on PvE content, and having a PvE only server. The number of PvP players is severely limited and I don't think they have enough to support the weight of CU. They better get this figured out or there won't be a game at all! We need to make sure that MJ knows this is what needs to be done.

The plan that CU will not have much PvE content to speak of is the number one reason why I have decided not to support CU. From what I have read so far, what the Devs have said, is that the focus will be on PvP and any PvE will be minimal and only as "filler" in the PvP environment. If the Devs do design CU in this fashion I seriously doubt there ever will be a PvE server, or worse... they make a PvE server but ignore PvE content as bad or worse than some other PvP focused MMOs do.... so what's the point? It's better that the Devs focus on either PvP or PvE, but not try to do both.

I do understand what the Devs are trying to "recreate" with CU, so I honestly agree that PvP focus is the correct one for this project.... even though that means Players like myself won't be participating because of said content. For the sake of the project as a whole I think they are doing it right.

Wurm Online mostly. Always lot to do there.

Some GW2, and a smidgin' of LotRO for my Middle Earth fix on the days the Devs can get their act together and get their patches right.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by superniceguy

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Originally posted by baphamet  

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Originally posted by superniceguy I am not bashing the game, it is what it is, and I have played it, and know what there is. It is fun for a few months, but is not something to play day in day out for years and years.

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  housing and fishing is not what keep people playing mmo's every day for years. that is your problem right there, you still expect mmo's to last you that long and none of them likely will ever again. the reason they lasted years before was because there was next to no competition and the communities were great and kept you logging in for the friends you made. those days are over. too much competition out there now and a lot of them are F2P so people bounce from mmo to mmo. i don't even need to point out how crappy the mmo community is now compared to pre-wow, do i? the problem i see with a lot of gamers in the mmo community are them and their expectations. they want and expect an mmo to be as fun as the original games they played and last them years. not going to happen people.  

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Dragon prophet is getting housing, and so will Wildstar, and chances are EQ next will do

 

These things may not interest you, but if it had these things, it would attract a whole load more people

From what I can tell SWTOR is not getting it because the game can not handle it, not because people do not want it. If people can build a home inside a MMO, then that adds more reason to stick playing it.

The more things a MMO has a wider range of people will like the MMO, and that was SWGs strengths, it had so much stuff it appealed to a wide range of people. I even got bored of things in SWG too for a bit, but there was so much stuff in it, that there was always something else to do, so the whole game NEVER got boring. If it was not for the housing I built up and decorated, I do not think I would have played it after the NGE.

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i didn't say housing doesn't interest me, it does. what i am saying is those things wont keep the vast majority of people playing for years.

my point was, even if SWTOR had those things it wouldn't have mattered much.

people generally don't play the same mmo for years anymore, the fact that you say you expect them to tells me a lot about your unrealistic expectations.

mmo's simply cannot and should not be judged by longevity compared to mmo's from 10 years ago or more.

i get that SWTOR doesn't have a lot of sandbox elements and some people don't like that.

i get that its a linear theme park that is a lot like wow and some people don't like that.

but as far as longevity goes,IMO you should learn to manage your expectations better in that regard because you likely will never enjoy the same game for years ever again, like you did in the past (i know that is the case for me).

especially when you consider the F2P model and many people jumping from mmo to mmo.

i don't care what mmo we are talking about, until something comes a long that is just head and shoulders above everything else, this will hold true for all mmo's IMHO.

Wrong answer.

MMOs can and SHOULD be judged at least by longevity compared to MMOs of years ago.

What has changed is that YOU and Players like You have COMPROMISED. That's not managing expectations, that's giving in.

Who's fault its that? Yours.

Stop trying to blame others for your choices. We haven't changed why we want from MMOs, you have.

And don't defend the Devs, they can make MMOs just as good, just as addicting, just and fantastic ... even BETTER than years ago, they have simply made the choice not to.

and you and others told them it's OK by trying to tell us that it's we that need to manage our "expectations". What a load of propaganda.

I voted "just subscription". I have seen too many times where a MMO Publisher will say that their item mall will only offer cosmetic and convenience items, but eventually the borderline pay2win items always creep into it. I no longer believe any MMO Publisher that says their Item mall will be free of p2w.

So I feel for Players, the Community, and the overall long term of the Game itself that Subscriptions is the only way to properly fund a MMO....

...However....

There are simply too many PLAYERS that just cannot discipline themselves... those Players want P2W items and....

There are simply too many MMO Publishers and DEVS that want huge profits even at the expense of the integrity and reputation of their own MMO, and they will give the Players above what they want in order to make much more money long term than they ever made when their MMO was funded by just a Subsciption.

Greed wins. One of the Seven Deadly sins wins. Humans can always be counted on for doing what they should not do.....As usual.

Originally posted by atticusbc

see, i've actually thought for a while that if in FW you were provided with low-end frigates, cruisers, or battlecruisers by the NPC government, it would be immensely beneficial to EvE. the idea would be that these ships would only have their safeties off (for any target, player or NPC) within FW areas, and these ships would only be available as long as you were in FW.

as it stands there's no way to get experience flying those ships without a huge amount of grinding out isk to make up for your inevitable losses. if people in FW were given these ships which they could fly in FW, that would give them the ability to learn the ship they want to fly without being doomed to have to grind out a bunch of cash all the time to cover it. and of course it would be better if you brought a non-FW ship to the fight, but these FW ships would allow people to learn the ropes in a low-risk environment, which is what EvE desperately needs.

that said, i think this would only appeal to the more casually-inclined current or past EvE players, and wouldn't do much to draw in new casuals. this would effectively form a PvP bootcamp, allowing players to feel confident in their piloting skills, but the rest of the game would be just as unforgiving, which would be as much of a deterrent as ever. i dunno. someone's probably going to crap all over me for this but whatever. all i know is it would bring me back to EvE with a vengeance. the ability to manage risk is a powerful incentive, and it's one which EvE utterly lacks for new players.

you are correct, for Faction Warfare this idea of free Frigs is great.

Problem isn't the idea, problem is the Players IN faction Warfare itself. Their expectations to be specific. I just got done going back to EvE, something I do every year or so. I played it for over 4 years and it still tugs on me to come back and visit.

This time I checked out FW and one of the first things I was told was to get a second account and skill up a Logistics Pilot or don't even bother asking to join FW. I don't dual box or multibox (don't believe in it, I feel it's cheating in a MMO to do so), so I told the FW folks no. Years ago I dualboxed 2 accounts in EvE but my feelings about doing so have changed since then.

Casual Players aren't going to be inclined to dualbox or multibox anymore than I would do so.... they are casual and would probably want to stay with one account while they play... so FW is not a good fit right now for Casuals (imo) with what I found while I was there recently.

Originally posted by Antiquated

Is EVE seeking casual players?

If so, why?

More Players to slave out... More Players to Scam... more Players to Suicide Gank... more Players to Hunt...

tldr; More Victims. All PvP MMOs need fresh meat. That's how PvP really works. The Strong feed off of the Weak. The Casuals are perfect.

(I don't like that this is true, but it IS true.)

Originally posted by birdycephon
You can get AD free you know.

All the Devs have to do is "adjust" the Ad you get and you too will be singing like a Canary.

It is a problem that ANYTHING is behind a wall and can only be gotten with Zen/AD/TP/CC/etc. Bad for Players, Great for Devs and Gold Farmers. Maybe someday some of you will realize how badly most Players are getting played by the same Devs that some Players here DEFEND.

Originally posted by Epicent
I left because my warrior isn't even recognizable from who he used to be. Stop changing the damned classes with patches every two weeks so that any moron can play it. For christ sakes you dont even have to stance dance as a warrior anymore. To easy. Also the fact that once you hit lvl cap you are completely unviable in pvp until you gear grind. No thanks. Also you have to log on week after week because of a stupid cap on the amount of conquest you can get per week or you remain unviable the whole season? No thanks.

I didn't play WoW (tried but didn't like it) however I do know what it's like to see your class toyed with and watered down. You have my condolences.

Truth is Blizzard is doing what every other MMO Publisher is doing.... they are "Swapping Out" their old Customer Base for a newer, younger, and much bigger one. Blizzard and other MMO Publishers don't want MMO Players as Customers anymore, they want People that like to play an online game but have never played a MMO before. 100 times the Customers, less finicky and demanding, with more money to spend and no qualms spending it.

That's the real reason WoW and other MMOs are being dumbed down.

And Players wonder why some of us are pessimists about MMO Gaming.

Originally posted by thark

It seems as if , gamers in general is getting more and more demanding, they do not want to pay 10-15 $ /month and they sure as hell will not pay 10$ for a bag ...

We have become spoiled with all the "Free to play" adverticing , wich really isn't free at all..

The ONLY way to create a GOOD game is to put TONS of money in your buissness investment, and If you create a GOOD game you want to make sure you get that investment back.

Todays attitude and freebee mentality doesnt make this an easy descision as a developer..Do we make a shallow easy to make Free to play game or do we really put money in our investment and make a AAA title and risk loosing all of It ?

I think ..Neverwinter is somewhat inbetween all this, It's a rather shallow DnD game, but still somewhat fun for certain individuals to shell out cash for a bag...But it's also suffering from lots of cheap things,,

Remember, there is NO such thing in life as FREE stuff..It all has to be payd for , However, If you settle with mediocre entertainment and have others pay for your mediocre entertainment (FTP) well then it's FREE in a sence..But should YOU as a consumer settle with poor quality and halfassed products when we can get great ones ?

And most importantly should paying costumers stand the fact that "mediocre" products compete with great AAA titles and make those titles fail just because they are demanding payment for their creation and isn't free ?

 

You say "We". Good. I am going to assume you are a Dev or a MMO Publisher. I got your Ear.

"You" Developers need to get off this F2P and Cash Shop bandwagon. Even though casual Players love it, not all MMO Players do.

You want to recoup your development costs? Then create a MMO worth a subscription and charge a subscription. Charge $25 or even $50 a month if you need to.... if you make a great MMO some of us will GLADLY pay for a great MMO. It's not the cost that bothers some of us, it's the value for money spent. We don't want a Cash Shop to fund a MMO, some of us do not want to acquire all virtual items through gameplay and ingame.

Now of course the Casual MMO Players don't want that. They have no hard feelings at all about buying their way to success at all. To the rest of us this is cheating.

But you need to make a decision.... either you want us MMO enthusiasts  .. OR ... you want the casual FaceBook crowd. Both groups do not want the same MMO, or the same MMO pricing plan.

So make your choice. You will lose one of the groups either way. Continue to try to please both groups and you may just lose both groups.

(I realize you already made your choice. Fair enough. At least now you know I would have paid a much higher Subscription fee for a quality MMO. if the Industry trends mean anything it's already too late for my opinion on this.)

I still play this and still enjoy it, but I admit I am suffering burn out on it. My Wife and Daughters and several of our rl friends play it so it is the subject of conversion.

Good to see more new content. When WB bought out Turbine I wasn't convinced that a Movie Corp could in anyway shape or how manage or own a MMO without ruining it. I was wrong it looks like.... we might see Mordor yet. I am no fan of the Turbine Store but at least LotRO will one day I think reach the finishing line.

As long as Turbine and WB don't try to shrink the world size down or do something else stupid then maybe I will stick around.

Even if not everything is as I would make it, at least I can adventure and explore Middle Earth and have fun in a MMO based upon Tolkien's works.

Originally posted by Tumblebutz

Originally posted by redcapp
Guilds are exclusive.  Realms are inclusive.

I've been trying to explain why I like RvR better than GvG to people for years... and you just did it in two simple sentences.  Kudos, my friend!  Kudos!

Yes thank you Tumblebutz, great explanation.

I have always preferred the Inclusive approach way more than the exclusive. That might explain why I loved DAoC (pre-TOA) but only partially liked GW's GvG ystem, yet love GW2's WvWvW system.

CU's system I would be comfortable with, might even enjoy it, but without the PvE side of things that DAoC had I am not interested in CU. In my case with DAoC the RvR was about 40% of my enjoyment factor, and the PvE 60%. No sense for me to go to CU. Better for me to continue with existing or new PvE focused MMOs.