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All Posts by DMKano

All Posts by DMKano

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I've been off WoW since 2004 (launch)

Never went back.

Won't ever go back.

 

What I have are awesome memories of a great game back in Vanilla - it wasn't perfect but I had a lot of fun playing it.

Going back would just ruin it in my head as the game today is so far removed to what it was 10 years ago.

 

Originally posted by Drakephire
No

I agree.

You could have the best IP and the best plan and even the best experienced group of MMO devs and still FAIL horribly at making a good MMO

 

MMOs are incredibly difficult to make. Making a decent one is very hard - making a great one - is very very rare.

 

It's horribly imbalanced in favor of defenders at this point.

However as we all know this will get patched and changed.

But currently yeah - the article is spot on.

 

What a bunch of nonsenes - here I took this selfie today

Originally posted by azzamasin
There is none.  Thing is majority of these indie studio's and Makers of Sandbox style games have this silly notion that PvP must be the forefront of their game.  I suggest you stay vigilant in your outspokenness to this crazy notion and vocal in your support for a PvE centric sandbox.  It is why I'll never change my sig.

 

Try Trove - the devs have confirmed that PvP will never be added and that it will remain a 100% PvE sandbox game.
OP - this would be like asking for something like a marathon but without the running or physical exertion.
Originally posted by Superman0X
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by amber-r

The only mistake they are making is not starting as p2p with the intention of swapping to f2p later.

 

If you do that it allows you to charge £60 upfront, get store recognition and you can even run as a p2p with a cash shop.  Once profits drop you can "relaunch" as f2p.  This is the industry standard for AAA titles right now, launch as p2p wait 1-2 years and swap over.

 

Also even though players will say they will quit if their game swaps to f2p, they very rarely ever follow though with that threat since they have so much time invested.

 

Amazed they would do it this way honestly.

Founders packs is how they will get cash upfront - I fully expect $50, $100 and $150 packs for EQN 

This is a pretty proven method for F2P games.

Also with all access pass - having a one off P2P game would be lame - SoE already said that EQN will be covered under all access pass. 

SOE is making a mistake by not going full P2P to start. I do agree that they can make some of this up with founders packs... but the could make a TON more with P2P. Here are the reasons why:

 

1. With P2P they can cut development time by at least a year. P2P does not require a fully developed game to launch, and they can use the first year to bankroll further development.

2. With P2P they can crank up the hype and marketing, and cash in on the preorders. This will allow them to make a ton upfront, before anyone can even see the game. This is even better than founders packs, as they do not have to provide any lasting value.

3. With P2P they can sell lifetime subs, which will not really cost them anything when they change to F2P after the first year. This is yet another way that they can cash in a year ahead of time, to pay for the extra development before F2P.

 

The bottom line is that P2P is all about hype, and lock in. They can cash in heavily on launch day, then get 1 year of revenue before the F2P conversion... at which time they can start selling founders packs (no loss here), and then use the more developed game to get more players for less. There really isnt a downside to a P2P launch for the sales/marketing team.

1. Founders packs do not require a fully developed game either

2. Same with founders packs - marketing and hype are no different 

3. Lifetime subs are a bad financial decision for dev studios - you lose money doing those 

 

There is very little difference in the end - you can get as much upfront cash with founders as with p2p initially 

Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by loulaki
when people will understand that subscription doesn't offer a better product ???

The argument was never about that. It is about offering a better experience. Simple fact is that myself and rl mmo playing friends ONLY play these games that offer a subscription option even it is along side a f2p model. 

 

No subscription option = we do not play.

 

The hoops, traps and p2w hassles of most f2p games are simply not worth the trouble. It detracts from a seamless playing experience based on equality and sportsmanship. F2p is based entirely on gamesmanship. That is exactly what it would be called in any real sport or gaming experience. Those of us who grew up playing real games be it board games, video games, rpgs, sports, etc clearly understand the difference.

 

Boundaries between fair play and abusive monetization is nearly always crossed by f2p. The exceptions are so rare that they are nearly invisible in the current mmo landscape. 

You are a very small minority - if ever players that only play P2P become any more than small % of the playerbase Dev studios might consider you.

 

Originally posted by Octagon7711
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Vrika
Originally posted by sunandshadow

How would you go about getting enough people to agree about an MMO design to get that MMO produced, assuming that the design is less than 85% similar to any currently successful MMO (i.e. its not a clone of anything).

I think that question is flawed: It's easy to get large community agree that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Darkfall, Camelot Unchained, Archeage, Star Citizen, etc. are the perfect messiah game as long as it's only talking about design. We want to believe, and if we find something that looks worth believing in we're ready to change some of our expectations and opinions to match the upcoming game we believe in. New and different games get produced all the time. It's only after they are produced that people decide they have flopped.

The problem is, we're not only picky but stupid. We're picky and always looking for the perfect game, and so stupid we can't admit to ourselves that when it's released we won't be playing it for long. We don't really want to find one, we want to dream of one, to look for one, to create images of one in our mind. Thus we're never happy with any one game, and since we can't admit the fact to ourselves, it'll seriously hamper our ability to enjoy the journey of looking for one.

Nice post.  Glad you said it and not me.

 

These are just silly games and we treat them like necessities of life. 

 

Oh where is my perfect MMO and how shall I live without you?? !!     Everyone has more fun trashing games than they do playing them anymore.

 

Everyone? Umm no. Forums are a tiny minority of players. The vast majority playes games and never posts period. People that bash games are less than 1%. This is a great example of just how skewed of a picture one might get by making conclusions based on forums

"People that bash games are less tha1%."    Not if it's a bad game.

Even if it's a bad game - your average player will just move on - bashing a game for months repeatedly is something  that a tiny % of players does - its more of an anomaly than norm.

 

Originally posted by k61977
Originally posted by DMKano

Easier said than done.

The "web of quests" with 1000s of possibilities - executing that correctly is a real bitch.

Sort of like saying "make it awesome" without actually providing the details on HOW to do this 

 

A step in the direction of how this could be done is the use of storybricks.  It is has a way to go but if it is ever done right it will make an MMO that is epic.  It would allow for quest to be tailored to each person at a specific time instead meticulous coding for every possible outcome.  The problem would be linking an event to trigger the origin, if the quest have a mind of their own. 

 

I know they are saying they are using this is EQN but I will believe it when I see it.

From what I've heard storybricks has scalability issues when it comes to massive numbers of players. 

Storybricks was designed as a small game AI tool - so again I'd love to see EQN's implementation - my gut feeling is that they'll end up only using storybricks for "some small number of special NPCs" - the vast majority of other NPCs will be your typical "dumb" NPCs that every game has today.

That's just my speculation - again we'll see what it actually ends up being like - I hope I am wrong and that EQN is truly a revolutionary game where every single NPC has a deep set of storybricks running it.

 

Games I'd recommend from your list

AoC

Aion

Archeage

 

Those would be my picks for open world PvP

 

Originally posted by justmemyselfandi
None. Any and every game they have outside of their own IPs can be gotten elsewhere cheaper.

Disagree 100%.

All "single player" Glyph games are 100% DRM free and I don't have to stay connected to play single player games.

To me this is a pretty big deal - which is why I bought Wasteland 2 from Glyph.

 

Originally posted by Hrimnir

People like to say they know what they want in a game.  But half the time they're given that and they barely play the game or move on.

Individual people know what they want mostly - but "people" as in collectively - nope as there is no consensus.

We obviously have a lot of threads on this forum debating the old school vs new school.  The New school people argue that the genre is just evolving and that old schoolers need to flow with the changes or get left behind.

There is no question that genre is evolving IMO.

While there is some validity to that statement, i think the fact that pretty much all of the AAA mmos released in the last decade have sold like hotcakes and then basically become ghost towns.  I think this is proof positive that the current model is not conducive to long term usage.  This leads to developers coming to the realization (like blizzard) that there is no point in spending 50-200 million developing an MMO that people are going to play and put down down after a month or two.

Blizzard is not the only ones - every major studio is painfully aware of this fact. Also every major studio knows that *no matter how good the game is - a huge % of players will not stay longer than 3-6 weeks. That's reality of MMORPGs today - players don't stick around anymore, it happens with every game.

Even WoD will see a massive drop in players in 6 weeks. It's not the games - a large % of players just don't play any games for longer than 3-6 weeks.

If we jump back to when WoW exploded in numbers, it was by today's standards a grindfest, ultra hardcore game (granted i started in EQ, so i complained even back in vanilla wow days about how fast leveling was, but thats another topic).  If WoW was released today, these forums would be blowing up with people whining about how hard the game is, and how grindy it is, etc etc.

I only played vanilla WoW back in 2004 - anything that happened to WoW in the last 10 years I am completely out of touch with (I hear it got a lot easier) - but vanilla WoW was a very good game, and yes the masses today wouldn't like it (which is why it changed to whatever it is today).

Getting back on topic.  I have come to the conclusion that people who say they want more casual/single player focused MMO's dont want that.  I think probably 80% or better of the current MMO market if they actually took the time to play a game that requires an investment would actually enjoy it.  Its kind of like the difference between having a porsche given to you, or buying one after you worked your ass off for it.  Which one do you think you're going to actually appreciate.

I disagree with this - I think the market changed based on players changing - I think the reality is that the majority of playerbase doesn't have any interest in playing any game for a long time anymore. Again 1-2months is the top regardless of how good the game is, people just move on to other stuff.

I'm not trying to say all the mechanics of old school mmo's need to be brought back, but i do think there are some things that should be brought back.

I agree - but the assumption that this would make players who normally leave every MMO within weeks change their mind is flawed. They would still leave.

Primarily i feel like the trend towards having this long single player storyline, i.e. you're the hero, you'll save the world, etc.  Just doesn't jive with an MMO.  One of the greatest things about old school mmo's was this feeling that you were just a cog in the wheel, and you could make yourself into something great.  You started out a nobody and became a somebody.  In modern MMO's you're captain badass from the beginning.  That gets old really fast.

I agree with this 100% personally. I abhor being "the chosen one" - but again changing this wouldn't have much of an impact on player retention - as most players are NOT like me.

Fast travel, porting to dungeons, etc etc.  I feel are the primary reason why mmo's no longer feel like worlds.  Yeah, i get it, people don't want to spend 2 or 3 minutes running to the dungeon entrance.  You only have 30 min to play tonight, you should just be able to port there.  I respond to that, that maybe you're playing the wrong game.  If you only have 30 min a night to game, maybe you should be playing hearthstone, or BF4, etc etc.  Those games are designed around shorter play segments.  Its like complaining that college courses should be shortened to suit your limited time constraints, and then complaining when you get a half assed crap education and don't actually learn anything.  Some things simply take time.

Again - I agree with you - but this is a minority view - and MMORPGs are not made for us - the minority. They are made for masses.

Anyways, im starting to ramble, just some thoughts i had.

I don't have a solution - I think the idea of some future AAA MMO coming out that will retain 80% of playerbase for even 6 months is simply not going to happen anymore. Those days are done, the world has changed, the players have changed.

 

Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by DMKano

Easier said than done.

The "web of quests" with 1000s of possibilities - executing that correctly is a real bitch.

Sort of like saying "make it awesome" without actually providing the details on HOW to do this 

 

I agree.. we need a genius game developer to make a genius game.

 

I'm imagining the web of quests more like a story web.

Just a small choose your own adventure type deal.

Maybe you'll get a job at a genetics lab, or a radioactive powerpower plant, or whatever.

The game makes you play the life of a ordinary citizen, and the decisions you make lead to your origin. Do you help  out in the community? do you get involved with the mob?  Etc etc.. I'm talking complex, like  next gen storyblocks ai.

With many many possiblities, freak accidents happening every day. You're powers are randomly assigned to you, but also based on decisions you made. As a citizen, did you resolve you're problems with P? Stealth? Brute Force? etc etc

And how you treat the NPC will dictate who will come into your life. If you're a jerk, you'll probably end up dealing with the mob.

 

But once the story part is over, it's up to you to decide your path.  You can always convert from Hero to Villain over time with your actions. And NPCs treat you different ways based on your alignment.

 

 

 

Little known fact - every game studio has several genius devs with very high IQ working for them.

I've had the pleasure of meeting one (game engine Dev) - the level of math that he was working with was quite frankly astonishing - the way he approached everything from a mathematical perspective was eye opening - I mean math gurus had nothing on this guy.

No I am not going to drop names due to respect for privacy.

 

 

Easier said than done.

The "web of quests" with 1000s of possibilities - executing that correctly is a real bitch.

Sort of like saying "make it awesome" without actually providing the details on HOW to do this 

 

Last time I checked dual wielding = 2 weapons

In Russia dual wielding apparently means 2hander

 

The blood effects -lol

AoC did it right - this was kind of funny.

Also maybe it's just me - but all of these special moves I feel like I've seen a million times before - leap, rage etc....

Will still give this a shot - but all the things so far look so-so

Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Vrika
Originally posted by sunandshadow

How would you go about getting enough people to agree about an MMO design to get that MMO produced, assuming that the design is less than 85% similar to any currently successful MMO (i.e. its not a clone of anything).

I think that question is flawed: It's easy to get large community agree that Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Darkfall, Camelot Unchained, Archeage, Star Citizen, etc. are the perfect messiah game as long as it's only talking about design. We want to believe, and if we find something that looks worth believing in we're ready to change some of our expectations and opinions to match the upcoming game we believe in. New and different games get produced all the time. It's only after they are produced that people decide they have flopped.

The problem is, we're not only picky but stupid. We're picky and always looking for the perfect game, and so stupid we can't admit to ourselves that when it's released we won't be playing it for long. We don't really want to find one, we want to dream of one, to look for one, to create images of one in our mind. Thus we're never happy with any one game, and since we can't admit the fact to ourselves, it'll seriously hamper our ability to enjoy the journey of looking for one.

Nice post.  Glad you said it and not me.

 

These are just silly games and we treat them like necessities of life. 

 

Oh where is my perfect MMO and how shall I live without you?? !!     Everyone has more fun trashing games than they do playing them anymore.

 

Everyone? Umm no. Forums are a tiny minority of players. The vast majority playes games and never posts period. People that bash games are less than 1%. This is a great example of just how skewed of a picture one might get by making conclusions based on forums
XL needs to get their stuff together.
Expect lots of changes and tuning - the current iteration is pretty weak IMO, but it is like combat prototype. But no updates to combat at this time.
Originally posted by Sassies

Here is a person who claims it is Trion's issue, it's well written:

http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?127948-Stormrune-vs-Meowcenaries-SIege-Techinical-Failure.

 

 

XLs issue - correction. Trion has nothing to do with any of the game mechanics and code - this is all 100% XL
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