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All Posts by CalmOceans

All Posts by CalmOceans

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http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/22/us/man-shoots-computer/

"Sick and tired of an uncooperative PC, Lucas Hinch of Colorado Springs took matters into his own hands. He took a gun too.

Then, in a back alley, he fired eight shots into the machine -- "effectively disabling it," according to a Colorado Springs Police incident report.

"(The) Investigation revealed a resident was fed up with fighting his computer for the last several months," the report said.

Hinch was cited with discharging a firearm within city limits.

He told the LA Times that he has no regrets over ending the computing life of his troublesome Dell."

Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Malabooga

Saying some people liked to chat in the game and someone claiming you said the game is "a glorified chatroom" are two entirely different things.

Yes you did.

And you mean - you ran out of reasonable arguments.

And, if you follow this forums, EQ was a glorified chatroom where you cahtted just because game was so tedious/boring because of endless time sinks. Thats at least what "jaded vets" claim.

I did not say EQ was a "glorified chatroom", show me where I did that.

You thought I wasn't going to read your post, and you could get away with twisting people's words and quoting things I never said.

Don't do it, it's dishonest.

 

Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's no different from you being on this forum, you come to the forum to socialize, EQ players came to EQ to do the same thing, to be around other people and to talk to them.

The combat was optional, many people sat in towns or later pok just to chat. It's really no different.

there you go, it was just few posts ago.

But, to put your mind at ease, its not far from teh truth.

I didn't say that EQ is a "glorified chatroom" anywhere in that post, nor did I say "everyone" sat around for hours and chatted.

 

Originally posted by Malabooga

Saying some people liked to chat in the game and someone claiming you said the game is "a glorified chatroom" are two entirely different things.

Yes you did.

And you mean - you ran out of reasonable arguments.

And, if you follow this forums, EQ was a glorified chatroom where you cahtted just because game was so tedious/boring because of endless time sinks. Thats at least what "jaded vets" claim.

I did not say EQ was a "glorified chatroom", show me where I did that.

You thought I wasn't going to read your post, and you could get away with twisting people's words and quoting things I never said.

I also never said "everyone just sat in towns and chatted for hours". I said some people preferred to chat, I never said "everyone".

Don't do it, it's dishonest.

Originally posted by Malabooga

What competitivenss. Just few posts ago another jaded vet claimed it was great because it was" glorified chatroom" where everyone just sat in towns and chatte for hours.

Get your stories staright guys lol

I especially didn't like this comment, because you are using quotes and putting in things people never said.

Quotes imply the person actually said it, don't do that unless the person actually said it.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

I didn't use the argument that EQ was a glorified chatroom. I said that some people like to chat in Everquest. Nothing wrong with that. You and Malabooga don't like older games, so much is clear, but don't use that as a pretense to start twisting people's words around.

You didn't? Really?

Originally posted by CalmOceans

It's no different from you being on this forum, you come to the forum to socialize, EQ players came to EQ to do the same thing, to be around other people and to talk to them.

The combat was optional, many people sat in towns or later pok just to chat. It's really no different.

Yeah ok, sure. Whatever you say.

 

I said that the combat in Everquest was optional, that some people preferred to chat and do tradeskills.

I did not say that Everquest was a "glorified chatroom" or that "everyone just sat in town and chatted for hours" like Malabooga claimed.

What is true is that the social aspect in EQ was extremely important, but it wasn't a "glorified chatroom" and not "everyone" sat in town chatting, you know just as well as I do that I never said that.

Are you so upset with this game that you're willing to resort to lies just to justify your anti-Everquest rhetoric. Go take a time out and get back to us when you have a real argument worth debating.

 

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Malabooga

What competitivenss. Just few posts ago another jaded vet claimed it was great because it was" glorified chatroom" where everyone just sat in towns and chatte for hours.

Get your stories staright guys lol

Hey, don't put words in my mouth. I never said "glorified chatroom", I never said "everyone just sat in town and chatted for hours".

I mentioned that some people like to chat in Everques.

You can only blame yourself here, considering how you tried (and failed) to use that as an argument... ;-)

I didn't use the argument that EQ was a glorified chatroom. I said that some people like to chat in Everquest. Nothing wrong with that. You and Malabooga aren't a fan of the game, so much is clear, but don't use that as a pretence to start twisting people's words around.

Saying some people liked to chat in the game and someone claiming you said the game is "a glorified chatroom" are two entirely different things.

 

If you're going to start debating by pretending people said things they didn't, then you might as well stop here, because you've run out of reasonable arguments

Originally posted by Malabooga

What competitivenss. Just few posts ago another jaded vet claimed it was great because it was" glorified chatroom" where everyone just sat in towns and chatte for hours.

Get your stories staright guys lol

Hey, don't put words in my mouth. I never said "glorified chatroom", I never said "everyone just sat in town and chatted for hours".

I mentioned that some people like to chat in Everques.

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. There are plenty of players who never made it past lvl 20, you could find them on EQplayers, players with years of playtime and they merely chatted in game. EQ was before Twitter / Facebook and before this forum.

You even had people going to the bazaar specifically to chat, because they knew a trader (you couldn't trade offline in EQ)

The idea that EQ was merely grinding mobs isn't really correct, while it did feature lots of grinding, the main reason most players played EQ was the social aspect, we grouped with friends and the slow combat allowed you to interact with people, your guild, and the chat channels.

And yet we have stories of people getting to max level in WoW without killing a single thing....

That's cool, I assume he had a lot of time to chat too, some people don't play MMO for the combat, they just do it to be around other people.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. .

And you can't do that in other games?

Please...

Didn't say you couldn't. Although I do feel it is much harder doing so in a group in today's twitch MMO, the speed at which you are required to activate abilities is so high that it doesn't allow for much of any interaction.

(unless you use vent or something, which on a European server with multiple languages, isn't that convenient or pleasant as you might think)

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Please, don't insult other veteran's intelligence with crap like "combat was optional" when talking about EQ.

But it was, you could do tradeskills or could just chat. There are plenty of players who never made it past lvl 20, you could find them on EQplayers, players with years of playtime and they merely chatted in game. EQ was before Twitter / Facebook and before this forum.

You even had people going to the bazaar specifically to chat, because they knew a trader (you couldn't trade offline in EQ)

The idea that EQ was merely grinding mobs isn't really correct, while it did feature lots of grinding, the main reason most players played EQ was the social aspect, we grouped with friends and the slow combat allowed you to interact with people, your guild, and the chat channels.

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by CalmOceans
And chatting with other bored nerds didn't make that much better.
 
Thing is, past is past. Now that I know better

Guess that what happens when you grow up and find other things to do than to sit in front of a screen killing the same group of trolls for 6 hours to gain 10% of a level.
 

You choose to chat with MMO players on this forum, how is it any different.

You compare a message that takes like 10s to type, not to mention you can do other things while occasionally browsing forums, to gaming sessions you had to endure for several hours to get any result?

Not sure if serious... clutching at straws?

It's no different from you being on this forum, you come to the forum to socialize, EQ players came to EQ to do the same thing, to be around other people and to talk to them.

The combat was optional, many people sat in towns or later pok just to chat. It's really no different.

And chatting with other bored nerds didn't make that much better.
 
Thing is, past is past. Now that I know better

Guess that what happens when you grow up and find other things to do than to sit in front of a screen killing the same group of trolls for 6 hours to gain 10% of a level.
 

You choose to chat with MMO players on this forum, how is it any different. Many EQ players rarely leveled and just chatted. How is it any different from you chatting with me? It's pretty much the same thing.

If anything you should find this forum more boring than MMO, it doesn't even feature gameplay of any kind, yet you're here socializing, a very basic form of socializing, but it's the same concept.

Originally posted by BadSpock
 I thought it was boring and bland and completely ridiculous to just sit and farm mobs over and over to level up

It doesn't make much sense on it's own. It is only when you have friends and you have a guild and are able to chat that it starts to make sense. EQ has always been a social game with a bolted on combat system, without socializing and without interdependence, the game will just look like a static grind game.

I can totally get that someone would log into the game, and ask themselves why they would want to kill the same mobs over and over, it's not for everyone, just like WoW isn't for me.

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by CalmOceans
 

I didn't raid in EQ, I never got to max level and I never liked the game. But it seems like you never played vanilla WoW too, judging by your posts so it's not like you can pass judgement by the same logic. You certainly didn't raid during vanilla or TBC WoW.

No I didn't raid in WoW, the experience I had with WoW was with a warrior up to level 40 I think.  My argument that I felt it was too dumbed down comes from the experience I had:

*I could run back as a ghost to my corpse

*I could solo as a warrior, that didn't make much sense to me

*the dungeons weren't complex enough, certainly nothing like Guk

Maybe the game past lvl 40 was much harder, maybe the WoW raids were hard, I don't know. My experience with WoW, albeit limited, was bad, I didn't feel like I was ever in danger, I never felt fear and never felt I depended on others for my survival.

I played it for a week, and then stopped playing it, by lvl 40 I thought I had the gist of the game down, and I knew it was never going to appeal to me.

Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by CalmOceans

The problem I had when I tried WoW is that it didn't innovate and I basically couldn't stand how easy it was. It took a lot of concepts from EQ, and dumbed them down to the extreme. WoW didn't invent instances, EQ had them before. WoW didn't invent any new classes, we had seen those in other games before.

The only large multiplayer game I ever really enjoyed, was Street Gears (got shut down since): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6IIyPRuwVc

It has no combat, it was a fun past-time "MMO", it was completely different than EQ, it had a persistent world, it was something new to me. (huge fan of jet set radio, so I loved the game)

At least it was something NEW, it wasn't yet another WoW clone.

From the EQ player's perspective, WoW just is a game that took some concepts from other games, especially EQ, and dumbed them down to the extreme, made the game so easy and accessible that it's borderline offensive if you came from EQ. I remember hearing you could just run back to your corpse invulnerable and could fly everywhere, I just couldn't wrap my head around why anyone would want no challenge.

I am not sure what you mean by no innovations. WoW played completely different to MMOs prior to it. WoW allowed every single class to solo and it also changed the focus of levelling from grinding mobs (EQ and company) to quest based levelling. When it was introduced, it was amazing. I never heard anyone complain about the levelling being boring in WoW. The questing approach to levelling was praised by most. It was just fun.

There was tons of challenge to be had in WOW when the game launched. Did you play WoW when it launched? A lot of EQ players abandoned EQ and never returned to it after playing WoW. People loved the significantly lower downtime, the more engaging combat, the more varied classes, the quest based approach to the game and the world itself was masterfully designed and it was beautiful. WoW's PvP was awesome and lots of people loved the open world PvP.

There are so many things that vanilla WoW got right. There is a reason it completely destroyed everything at the time. All those games before it are either dead, shutdown or on life support. Yet WoW is still the most succesful MMO after 10 years. And if you bring in the dumbed down, mcdonalds argument I am going to facepalm.

It did change how people thought about MMO and it did make the MMO genre more accessible and for some people, a lot more fun.  I do agree with that.

Originally posted by sephiban3

Implying EQ was hard. EQ was tedious, not hard. Will there be a day when people know the difference between when something is tedious and hard?

EQ was hard. The counterargument that it wasn't hard always comes from people who never played the game or gave up after 2 years, or never lead a raid, and have never done anything significant in EQ. It's always the same argument, from the same people, it is tiresome.

The problem I had when I tried WoW is that it didn't innovate and I basically couldn't stand how easy it was. It took a lot of concepts from EQ, and dumbed them down to the extreme. WoW didn't invent instances, EQ had them before. WoW didn't invent any new classes, we had seen those in other games before.

The only other large multiplayer game I ever really enjoyed, was Street Gears (got shut down since).

It has no combat, it was a fun past-time "MMO", it was completely different than EQ, it had a persistent world, it was something new to me. (huge fan of jet set radio, so I loved the game)

At least it was something NEW, it wasn't yet another WoW clone.

From the EQ player's perspective, WoW just is a game that took some concepts from other games, especially EQ, and dumbed them down to the extreme, made the game so easy and accessible that it's borderline offensive if you came from EQ. I remember hearing you could just run back to your corpse invulnerable and could fly everywhere, I just couldn't wrap my head around why anyone would want no challenge.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Not dying in EQ was certainly part of the challenge in EQ. Dying and corpse runs made the game more challenging.

Not at all.  

Unicycling across a tightrope while juggling involves the exact same amount of skill to do successfully whether there's a net under the tightrope or a lava flow.  The penalty doesn't change the skill required by the challenge.

It's not the same thing, since that's permadeath, which EQ didn't have. Getting 20 chances to cycle over that rope is less challenging than getting 1.

The player who can jump onto the rope instantly again, will learn to ride accross it much faster than the person having to waste 2 hours climbing back on it. A death penalty impacts how fast you can learn something. Since our world revolves around time, being able to recover instantly, makes thing easier.

Where your argument makes sense, is in a world without time, in some kind of vacuum where you don't account for the time cost of corpse recovery and XP loss, that's not a world we live in.

If you take time out of the equation, then you are able to argue that corpse runs or death penalties or XP loss don't make a game more challengine. But the reality is that MMO, and our world, revolve around time.

That's why EQ's betas were so successful, the ability to have corpse runs no longer affect you. the few weeks a year we could play in easymode if we got accpeted into a beta, the ability to learn a raid at a very fast pace. That's why MMO have these boss practice mode in some game, the ability to have deaths no longer affect you. The less time is required for recover, the faster you learn a boss. Certainly, when the corpse recovery was cumbersome and time consuming such as in EQ, it made everything more challenging as a result, expansions didn't wait until you learned the raid.

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