Originally posted by Darkfalz89
Originally posted by zanfire
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by zanfire
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by zanfire
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by zanfire
Originally posted by Foomerang
Originally posted by nbtscan
Unless they drastically change the class system in between now and then it's not going to help you any, as you're just going to be a new class locked into abilities from two other classes.
Originally posted by Cleverjack My biggest issue with the game was the lack of customization and character growth. I think its funny how you started out being able to make your rotation full of different skills from all the classes, then at hitting lvl 30 the game limits you to your class and the few skills allowed from 1 other class. And end game everyone looks a like and every class uses the same rotation. That makes the game boring and its why I stopped playing. Now when they add the multitude of classes that XI had then maybe it will be worth a look
As a crafter, I have access to 8 other classes abilities. The higher I got, the more options I had
which is great for crafting (even though crafting, as great as it is, sits as a secondary thing when people barely have use for it, blame the whole "best gear comes from coil" crap (this could be fixed if there were multiple sets of the highest end gear between crafts and multiple events or gear that is very very close).
As for combat Foom is right, your stuck with the 2 classes for the jobs, even if there are 20 classes it wont matter. I dont mind that honestly but the problem comes when so much is limited to use between classes, there should be more classes subs per job and finally classes themselves are so gimped compared to jobs noone uses them past the point of getting the job.
The class system was far better in 1.0 because it didnt have lower base stats (and each stat didnt count as much) the stats were just less focused and more spread so if your Lancer wants to cast cure of fire, he could do it even if the results were not all that great, but still viable (perticualrly with cures and buff it worked just fine). In AAR when you put on a job not only are the stats more focused, but you get MORE stat points and now that each stat point means far more than it did before, you are extra gimped as a class.
Its a system they should have balanced more from how it was in 1.0 or toss out and just have jobs only (which as it is now would have been the best way to do it). They could honeslty remove classes and people would quickly not care and forget about it. You want a solo job that can use everything? Just put in an "onion" classes (knight/mage or just one) and make the stats more balanced all around and let people use all non job skills.
I agree that crafting should have more importance. It should not provide the best gear though, nor will it ever. .
Your reasoning behind classes is completely flawed though. Now in ARR, you start off archer for example. You get archer skills, then you learn bard and equip that for access to bard skills and a dex bonus. When ranger comes out you can equip that for ranger skills and a dex bonus. This is how the game has to work in order to function and not be a disaster like 1.0.
The reason things like lancers curing in high level 1.0 content was because the games entire structure was a mess and allowed such ridiculous things, and pve progression content was a joke compared to ARR and basically was non existent. The guy who thought it was a good idea to have classes be viable alongside jobs really did a great job himself as you can tell from the response 1.0 got, right?
No lancers want to use cure that's why they're lancers. Nobody wants jobs to be useless either and have classes be just as strong, they can't co-exist on the same power level in a proper made game with end game progression or you break the class trinity and you break real raid content. That is the reason for jobs, and should've been the purpose to begin with....to be stronger than classes which is why you start off as a class...its a fairly simple concept that 1.0 didn't grasp.
crafting the best should not happen,but something near the top (which imo they need to close the gap on all endgame gear so its not such giant jumps) And as for the class bit, why should lancer not be able to use cure decently? The entire point, even according to Yoshi was that classes were for solo and there so you could use many more of the skills and set more of them. You should have stats shifted around so its more balanced so as any class a cure has some use, or a debuff lands and does something worth while, or a buff works even if none of those are nearly as powerful as how the job would use it.
1.0 classes had some instances where classes were the better choice and i can see there is some possible unbalance, but it was rare and normally revolved around the strength of a certain skill (like lancer using that shielding skill for ifrit). Its nothing some tweaks could not handle and make it so classes have use...even if its only for solo stuff.
Right now classes are a sad joke and serve only to be a starting point for having multiple jobs off them. They need to adjust it so they find some use other than "well i hit 30 and have my job, class is done".
Yes thats the point though. Classes are the starting point for jobs and it maintains balance and purpose. Would you be happier if they called jobs classes or something? There is no reasoning for them to make jobs less powerful and classes more powerful and you're probably the only person I've ever heard want that. Nobody wants anything that 1.0 did, ever.
Why should a lancer not be able to use cure effectively? Because they would never do that in a well made MMO. They'd be executing their dps combo, and filling their role as dps. LIke i said, doing what you propose breaks balance and breaks purpose. Lancers don't need cure for solo play either, everyone is fine in solo play currently. Do you just really want to cure on a strength user?
Make jobs weaker and classes stronger? when did i even mention that? My point was that jobs trump the hell out of classes even when it comes to the purpose of soloing. What 1.0 did right was when you equiped a job, it didnt just add a ton of stat points, it made them fit the role. Classes were left to be more even spread so they could still get some use out of all the skills and spells.
Classes entire purpose was to be the "solo" way and be able to use everything instead of being restricted, but they could never be as good as the job version in their intended role (aka: Dragoon will always outdamge and outlast, along with specific skills only the job gets)
Solo play is fine right now because its a joke, anyone on just about any job (even naked) can take out stuff their level and higher like its no big deal. In fact a large thread was on the forums making fun of how "not threatning" anything is in the games world (which had a video of a severly gimp and mostly naked warrior trouncing tons of same level mobs like they didnt matter). The entire point of classes were to be the little bits of everything so they could be more self sufficent.
Also people clearly do still want things from 1.0 back (at least after 1.2x) and if you dont think so you must not have ever been on the main forums, because those kinds of threads have been around for a long time. They are less often now because people realize the game isnt going to change and be more of the same stuff thats been around for the past decade and have left.
Also you have to be crazy to think this game has more than a million subs, if they did SE would have been screaming it from the roof tops to players and investors instead of all the games they seem to be playing with how many people are playing (oh we have 2 million registered adventures! Over 500k unique players log in!) Please...if it was so damn high we would know.
You must not play a lot of recent MMO's, it's not possible to have a properly made game and put something in a non instanced area and make it threatening this is nothing new to us. Now with that in mind, you see why your point about putting classes into solo play and all this solo play nonsense is completely worthless right? Ok good. The mobs will get zerged, the mechanics will be disregarded and overpowered by the whole server trying to kill it. Dont reference how it was possible in XI either because that game had no real class structure, low pop servers, and a combat that was set up like microsoft powerpoint.
I can't take you seriously. Nobody wants these things from 1.0 except a few forum trolls here and there. I also never said a single thing about subs here so your last paragraph is entirely worthless to me.
The subs thing was part of the main discussion, so not everything must be about you. And no i dont play many recent MMOs, they have mostly all turned into hand holding, mostly solo bore fests with little depth (and if there is depth, we have crap like ilvl and 1 set fits all crap to make it all simple for the dumb dumbs) . There is ZERO risk vs reward with most of these new games when it comes to exploring. Hell in this game you can go everywhere at level one with minimal problems.
How did FFXI have "no real class structure"? Your joking right? Low pop servers...yah after it being up for well over a decade (shocker right?) And combat was slow, but clearly people enjoyed it or it wouldnt be one of the most sucessfull MMOs around. Cant say the combat is a whole lot better here (dogdge circle and spam same rotation...havent done that before) But i guess any RPG combat can be said to be dull...if you hate stuff like turn based combat, your playing the entirely wrong genre.
There are things everyone should want from 1.0: nothing wrong with the chocobo escorts, Hamlet Defense, Dungeons that have multiple paths and ends, open world dungeons, Open world boss mobs that drop good level loot, gear that has unique stats (what we have now is simple and boring as hell), relic weapons that are actually special and top end (not just second string to coil all the time) Crafting that is a huge part of the econimy, leveling that isnt so fast and easy that half the server has everything maxed out, gathering that has meaning (making it fast to level and NO randomization means next to nothing has value). How about making some things that are not just instanced everything.
This game is nothing new, pretty well polished and pretty, but nothing remotely new or original. I love the FF series and put way more years into XI than i should, so i want this game to try and mix it up. Look at the last couple patches, how predictable and samey can you get? Another primal that works in the same mannor? 2 old dungeons reskinned as hard mode, andother dungeon which contains the same linear layout (trash>boss>trash>boss>trash>final boss) More coil which im sure will go on until they raise the cap. Collect more fricken tomes and everything has lockouts which is so counter to their message of playing all jobs on one account. Another crystal tower that will have gear crappier than what you can already get and most people already do. Im so sick of jamming "hard" and "extreme" mode on everything and just reskinning and tweaking it. Tired of every endgame fight being "memorize the script with a DPS check". At least the endgame in 1.0 had randomness to it instead of everything being basically instant fail mechanics.
While I do enjoy many things about 2.0 and what its done with the scene, 99% of this post is the reason why I no longer play this game. I'll come back when they release more classes that are relevant to my interests (these supposed hybrid classes that were supposed to come out) and some actual relevant content. Currently the game is zoning into dungeons and Coil, there is very little attachment to the outside world and no other worthwhile events. I too second that some of the events of 1.2 need to be brought back like hamlet and STOP for the love of god making beast tribe quests, its useless content-less content. I was reading all the pages of this thread and was amazing at how many pure positive and none negative criticism that I'm seeing and comments like "massive patches filled to the brim with content" when in reality its much like the above poster said. ONE new dungeon with 2 rehashed dungeons, of which people will just spam the one that is the fastest to do making the already boring grind more boring to get soldiery for gear that is just a stop gap to gear that you will pray that will drop from Coil. Another 5 levels of coil so you can spend the next 6-8 months of not seeing that piece that you want drop with no real alternative pieces because this game has so little gear choices because crafting is so damn useless.
The game very quickly became you vs the RNG gods rather than vsing the content, with no ways of obtaining gear outside of hoping the piece will drop in the first place. Doing Coil 1-4 for 13 weeks straight to never see my casting pants drop, then after the block has been lifted I literally go 0/49 on the pants and just gave up. We are just now getting craftable ilvl 90 accessories in 2.3!!!!!! I'm not asking for 115 craftable gear but ilvl100 gear using mats from HM primal/coil high end content fights like in FFXI? Some gear alternatives and actual open world NM fights that drop unique gear with some outside dungeons or beseiged/campaign from FFXI content? I know that in time the game will probably get where it needs to be but its just a really polished WoW lite because it has hardly a quarter of the content for a player to do at any given time when compared to other MMO'S.
In closing I just decided to go back to FFXI with my FFXIV friends for the 16th time and I'm glad to see that every time I come back there is so much to do and so many ways of doing content and so many different gear choices. Now they finally introduced a clear progression path and forwent the original treadmill of post abyssea.
You are right this game will never have certain things from XI with its nm's you must compete over with horrible spawn and drop rates. The horrible lvl grinding and RNG was way worse in XI . Besieged and Campaign was a zerg usually, especially besieged . Oh and ilvl 90 can be materia'd to make it more like ilvl 100 in some cases a little better. XI is the holy grail of mmo's for some folks I guess but in my opinion had may problems these just being a few.