Originally posted by azarhal

ESO already said that the crafting system will allow us to improve loot (including the best loot found in the game) , we just don't know how flexible it is right now. I'm personally thinking that focusing on the right enchantments might be simpler, juste improve the weapon base stat through crafting (which we know is possible).

edit: Having re-read a ESO crafting article. Seems like "additives" will give special effect to weapon/armors. Sound a lot like Asheron's Call tinker system, so maybe we can remove effect by adding certain additives...

This would be awesome.

I love getting crafters more involved in the regular loot process. Being able to craft physical items is nice in a game like UO or DAoC, where all the end game armor and weapons are the same and are degradable. But in a gear progression game it's never been an advantage to be able to make weapons or armor because you had already outpaced anything you could craft.

Having a system where crafters can modify end game equipment really puts the crafter into a deserved limelight, and makes the crafting worthwhile.

Originally posted by baphamet

 

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Originally posted by hMJem
You're taking an article of speculation over someones word whose played the game enough to see every item drop multiple times in the same instance and not see a difference in DPS/armor values but only enchantments?

 

 

This isnt Zenimax's word. This is a random article

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i am not taking anyone's word for it, but obviously you are.

according to you this "NDA breaker" played it at pax and in beta and says the guy in the article who claimed he played it at pax as well is lying.

 

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During my game play at PAX East, I got to experience this feature for myself. During my session I had the same weapon drop for me three times and each time the weapon had a different DPS stat on it. My first weapon had 12.5 DPS, the second had 11.8 DPS and the final one had 12.8 DPS. As you can see the range is not very large but enough to keep my eyes on the loot as I got it. A lot of times in other MMOs I have played, I tend to ignore loot that I pick up unless it is a quest reward or a chest. Normally items from random creatures tend to be what we call “vendor trash.” I’m glad Elder Scrolls Online went with this type of gear system. It kept me engaged and looking at every piece of gear I acquired. It was like Christmas every time the loot window popped up. I am glad that an MMORPG has finally adopted this type of system.

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that doesn't seem to be speculation to me so i am not sure where you are getting that assumption from.

i would honestly like to know who is lying because somebody definitely is.

i just would like to know why you chose to take this random persons word for it over the person in the article, is there a reason? i am starting to have my doubts.

i mean, at least with an article like that one would assume that if someone was spreading misinformation zenimax would likely have them take it down.

but maybe not, i just would like to know either way.

Further down in the Reddit comments the author chimed in to let us know that all of his articles are fact checked and screened by ZOS prior to publish. The author's past reveals have been confirmed later, so we can make a reasonable assumption that the liar is in fact the person who says the article is false.

That being said, I wonder if they'll be using crafting to help customize gear stats after they've been dropped. If a weapon has the right DPS but the wrong extra effects, I'd like to see crafters be able to wipe out (or at least reduce) the extra stats, and tailor make exactly what the player is looking for.

Edit: The Reddit Comment Link

Originally posted by colddog04

I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that this doesn't happen. It definitely costs a few people in a few games that are tailored specifically to draw in big spenders a lot of money. People actually choose to spend their money like that on the games though. They aren't forced into anything.

 

We don't need any proof that these games exist. They do. Many people consider them predatory. That doesn't mean that all F2P or B2P games are predatory.

This is a silly argument. No one is forced to spend money on any type of entertainment. They do it because they want to, or because they feel they need to in order to get more enjoyment out of whatever it is.

With F2P games, though, there's a very strong feeling of bait-and-switch. That's a common, fraudulent, sales tactic that works remarkably well on many people. You're lured to the game under the pretense of free play, and are encouraged to spend money because the free play described isn't quite as convenient or fun as it would be if you pay. They're essentially advertising a great deal, and once you bite you realize that if you have to pay to get what you were expecting.

True, many players are satisfied taking the bait alone and playing entirely for free without succumbing to the sales pressure to spend. That doesn't make the selling tactic any less underhanded.

Originally posted by asrlohz

Originally posted by rygard49

Originally posted by asrlohz

But I haven't caught them making a silly mistake. I've caught them trying to please the series newly found fans from Skyrim. I will tell the developers and hope for a proper change but I doubt it will happen. And aye, it is the spice. But it is also the "soul" of the game. It is essential for a TES title.

Ahhh. So the real reason comes to light. You loved Elder Scrolls before Skyrim made it too 'mainstream', and you resent a fanbase that you see as a jumping onto a bandwagon. I should have known by your forum avatar... you're a video game hipster!

Didn't claim that. I greatly enjoyed Skyrim but it was very much simplified. A lot of the quests were randomized and the guilds' storylines were super linear and grindy. Oblivion was quite mainstream as well but it didn't push all of its resources to custom made dungeons whilst still retaining the same grindy feel.

 

I still love The Elder Scrolls and I've never claimed otherwise. You are making unreasonable assumptions. Also, the avatar I'm using is from the webcomic "PvP Online" which is quite popular.

You, my friend, have one shallow and prejudiced mindset.

Erm... I was hoping that if the utter ridiculousness of the post wasn't apparent, that at least the smiley at the end would do enough to indicate that I was joking around. I was, apparently, mistaken.

Originally posted by Nobadeeftw

Originally posted by rygard49

What's the difference between a video game and an MMORPG? Why would an MMO have to be held to stricter standards as far as the lore? I would think the opposite. In order to have a massive audience playing simultaneously, you have to concede certain aspects of lore to allow that. Not that this book thing is in the same vein as Priests of Mitra killing each other in AoC.

This complaint about a book being in the game at the wrong time period... This is just minutiae that very few would even notice, let alone care about.

You obviously never played SWG.  It started off as one little thing here and one little thing there.  Two years later the entire game was a lore stomping extravganza.  It was impossible for the actual roleplayers in the game to not notice all the nonsense.  This also reminds me of Star Trek online.  Sure, you could try to immerse yourself into that world; but, you're going to notice the hunderds of ships that are out of place, along with the people wearing uniforms that don't fit the time or place.  I wouldn't even know where to being with bad story telling.  It invokes the feeling of apathy in the community.  If no one else is going to bother following the established canon of an IP, why should the player care about it?

If you don't understand what roleplaying is, perhaps it's time to do some serious research.  Sure you can find people on this site debating day and night about the definition of it; but, people who roleplayed long before MMOs, they seem to be the only ones who get it.  It's difficult to immerse yourself into a world full of contradictions.  Might as well be playing mine sweeper if you want mind numbing entertainment.  That's not why MMORPGs were created though, they were an obvious improvement upon MUDs.  Since then they have evolved into a multiplayer smorgasbord, containing whatever will attract subscribers for a period of time and when that fails, they invent some other random gimmick out of desperation.

I played SWG for the first 3 months, so you obviously shouldn't make assumptions about complete strangers. It was lore stomping to start with that you could even be a Jedi in the time period the game was set, so their bastardization of the lore didn't happen little by little over time. It started right away.

I understand roleplaying, and I've participated in the past. The roleplayers I know and have played with are all apt improvisationalists. They can take minor discrepancies in the established lore and do either one of two things:

1. Ignore it, or...
2. Work it into a story and explain for themselves why this thing is the way it is.

Originally posted by asrlohz

But I haven't caught them making a silly mistake. I've caught them trying to please the series newly found fans from Skyrim. I will tell the developers and hope for a proper change but I doubt it will happen. And aye, it is the spice. But it is also the "soul" of the game. It is essential for a TES title.

Ahhh. So the real reason comes to light. You loved Elder Scrolls before Skyrim made it too 'mainstream', and you resent a fanbase that you see as a jumping onto a bandwagon. I should have known by your forum avatar... you're a video game hipster!

Originally posted by NL-Rikkert

Originally posted by rygard49
Is this really that important?

To a random MMO player? NO

To a true TES fan? VERY MUCH SO 

The only reason a TES fan would want to play TESO is because it gives the same lore and (preferably as close as) the same experience as its SP counterpart.

Unfortunately as a TES fan, the more I hear and see about this MMO the less I am attracted to it.

If it is F2P I will definately take a look myself. If it is B2P I will wait for reviews. If it is P2P they are doomed already...

 

(Dear trolls, this post was my opinion and my opinion only! If you feel the need to hate please go elsewhere as your desire for a flame battle shall not be fulfilled here. Good day!)

I have to ask honestly if you think that "true" TES fans aren't also MMO players and vice versa? I don't believe they're mutually exclusive, but perhaps you do, and I'm interested to know why you think that.

You're very limiting in your opinion of what a "true" ES fan's motives would be for playing this game. It seems as if you're saying that only one iteration of the game is allowed for it to please the "true" fans, that of the first person action RPG. So another question: Do you also feel that a TES real time strategy game would be rejected by the "true" fans? Or an arcade style side-scrolling game? How about an ES themed MOBA?

Not questioning your right to express your opinion, simply trying to understand the motives behind them.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Slackers who are goofing off at their jobs surfing this site rather than doing their jobs.  They are afraid someone might see the ads over their shoulders and realize it's not CNN or something. 

Like me, but I make sure to narrow the window down to hide the sidebar ads and my monitor is strategically placed to be out of the view. 

BTW, what is silly for most of those folks is their IT departments likely are monitoring every site they visit, so its not like their employers really don't know what they are up to.

As an IT professional at a large business... Yes. But we don't really care until upper management has a problem with you. Then we dig into those records as cause for termination. Be smart and check if your business has you going through a proxy to hit the web. If you can turn it off before you visit these sites, then it's more difficult for us to track down what you're doing through the web.

And also... your IT guys are probably all here to. :)

Originally posted by Krytycal

Originally posted by Loviotor

Honestly, WoW is nothing special either.  EverQuest is still a better game than WoW in my opinion.

This pretty much. I'd even play SWTOR over WoW. I really don't understand what people see in that dated turd.

As far as Neverwinter, I'm a big fan of the combat. It's like GW2's combat, but fun. As a CW I thought I'd hate the constant rooting, but I've realized that it actually makes the combat more strategic (along with the CC and dodge).

Not to defend WoW... but you should probably recognize the irony of using the word 'dated' when you're insutling WoW and promoting EQ.

As far as NW, I haven't tried the control wiz yet, but on my cleric I'm noticing quite a bit of strategy as well. Surprising for what I thought the game would entail. I'm not dissappointed yet, and coming in to the game expecting to hate it that's saying something.

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by rygard49
Is this really that important?

I had this issue with Age of Conan, and necromancers/demonologists, running with pets out in Cimmeria where they would be insta gibbed.  Seeing priests of mitra killing each other in the cosmetic make up of races and classes that made aoc a video game an not an mmorpg - was frustrating. 

 

So, yes.  I believe that's why you don't use an mmorpg's name without being strict to the lore.  It's utter nonsense what happened in Age of Conan and other titles - but to the average gamer who just wants a temporary game, this matters little.

What's the difference between a video game and an MMORPG? Why would an MMO have to be held to stricter standards as far as the lore? I would think the opposite. In order to have a massive audience playing simultaneously, you have to concede certain aspects of lore to allow that. Not that this book thing is in the same vein as Priests of Mitra killing each other in AoC.

This complaint about a book being in the game at the wrong time period... This is just minutiae that very few would even notice, let alone care about.

Originally posted by Alverad

Yes and no.  It's not game breaking, but considering you're dealing with a well known and loved IP, showing some respect to your audience, by at the least not fiddling with things that don't negatively affect game design, would only be appropriate.  And a loremaster, well....you can hardly expect players will cheer when you twist and turn what's already been written to suit your liking, or worse, out of ignorance.  

The game has already had a fair amount of bad press, one would think, they'd be more careful on certain fronts:(

But, the person who asked the question is a part of that audience, and they asked for there to be a sequel the The Lusty Argonian Maid. So clearly they either didn't know about the discrepency in when the book series was supposedly written, or they didn't care and just wanted the funny content regardless of how pardoxically implausible it would be to add it in the lore. So are they really disrespecting their audience?

I'd be willing to bet 99.99% of people who play ES wouldn't question whether or not the book was supposed to have been written in this time period or not. When it comes to nitpicking this game, complaining about The Lusty Argonian Maid being in the game before its time is probably one of the most glaring examples.

1. I think it's the business portion of the MMO assembly line that gums up the works. Demands for quicker release and hitting monetarily beneficial release dates cause a subpar game to emerge. Contrary to what you believe, it's rare that an MMO pushes back a release date, even if the game isn't ready. Very few publishers are willing to sacrifice the up front sales for the additional quality that might be lacking.

Once a game releases and fails to meet the hyped expectations, all but the hardiest of fanboy are quick to turn on the developer and red flag the game.

2. It depends if the developer is sinking his/her own money into the project as well. Certainly, I feel that any KickStarter investment is a risk, and I don't believe it's a fair way for a publisher to fill gaps in their budget. Not only do they not have to pay dividends to any investors from that website, but they can just skate with the money and deliver literally nothing. Further, these games are generally done with less capital, and we don't know what corners they'll have to cut (if any) during development in order to meet their budget. There's the added risk that the end product won't be what you thought you were investing in.

On the other hand, it frees up their creative end to potentially bring an untainted vision to reality without a publisher telling them that X sells better than Y, so change the game to reflect whatever is hot in the market. More creative control means potential innovation to move the market away from stale gameplay.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by rygard49

Okay.

I have 400 mystic points.

I want to buy a potion for 550 mystic points.

The cash shop has mystic points on sale for $5 for 500, $10 for 1100, $20 for 2500, $50 for 7000, and $100 for 15000.

I spend $10 for a balance of 1500 mystic points, and am left with 950 after I buy the potion.

How much real world money did I spend on the potion?

How much money did you spend on the points? $10. That's how much money came out of your wallet that you will never get back. 

You're sidestepping the question, because it can't be answered. You can't know what you spent on the item because of the fluctuating value of the currency depending on how much you spend. You know the total what you spent, but not the total value of what you're getting.

Originally posted by colddog04

With a F2P model, you also know exactly how much will be coming out of your wallet.

Okay.

I have 400 mystic points provided as seed currency. A common cash shop tactic.

I want to buy a potion for 550 mystic points.

The cash shop has mystic points on sale for $5 for 500, $10 for 1100, $20 for 2500, $50 for 7000, and $100 for 15000.

I spend $10 for a balance of 1500 mystic points, and am left with 950 after I buy the potion.

How much real world money did I spend on the potion?

Edit to clarify where the original 400 came from.

Originally posted by udon

But that model doesn't promise that either anymore.  I'll give you a example.  A new expansion for MMOx is released and everyone who subs goes out and buys it (expansions costs money in most P2P games) than they go out and start to level only to find that there are not enough quests to get to the next max level without grinding unless you buy double XP potions in the cash shop.  In this case not only did being monthly sub not promise I wouldn't have to buy new content but it also didn't promise there would be enough of that content to level without using the cash shop.

P2P and B2P are myth's these days.  They no longer exist in thier pure form.  And while I might agree that a true 100% P2P game has some advantages over a F2P game I don't believe most sub based games with a cash shop do.  At the end of the day if you put that $15 a month into the cash shop in many of those games (Not all) you would end up at the same point.

You're using a pay to win cash shop in a pay to play game as an example. There aren't a whole lot of those, and they're all scams as well.

Originally posted by DeaconX

No matter HOW MUCH anti-free-to-play people try to hate on the model, it's quite simple.

It puts the risk in a player's mind at ease about the initial investment and time, and puts all monetary cost contol in their hands.

 

That's pretty much as good as it gets.

What? The monetary cost is never out of our hands. Ever. We always decide what we spend on based on the information we're given regardless what we're talking about. That's a total non-factor in the argument.

Originally posted by colddog04

A lot of people view P2P as dishonest as well though. Where does the money go? I have spent $60 for a box and another $180 on a yearly subscription. That should be four full fledged games worth of content and experiences. At the very least, it should be two full games worth of content.

 

The money doesn't fully go towards the game you are paying for. It goes towards the next project that they also charge you for. To many, that is a very dishonest way of handling their subscriptions.

With pay to play, you know exactly what you'll be paying ahead of time. I'm not worried about where the money is going for either model, as they're likely being spent on the same things: Salaries, Customer Service, Hardware/Bandwidth, Development, Shareholder profits, etc. That's a whole different discussion.

Let's say for a moment that pay to play is dishonest as well, though. Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?