Originally posted by Sinviper

Little question I'd like to add, seeing as I have this thread already I'll just slot it in here.

When and how do I get an open beta key for Aion?

If you've pre-ordered Aion you'll have access to all the betas. When you pre-order, the game store should email you your key, which you put on your account on the NCsoft site.

People who are saying it's "like WoW" is irritating with any game. These are generally new players to the genre who were introduced with WoW, and don't know much outside said game (WoW).
They look at some Aion screenshots and features. It's in 3rd person, has a similar UI, has classes and skills. It's like WoW. There's no way to shut these people up, I'm afraid. Best to ignore it.

PS. Call of Duty is like Counter Strike. See wut I did thar? ;)

Originally posted by Yauchy

 Massive, Multiplayer, Online - it really has to be more complicated or else they wouldn't be so great, right?

Really take it at the minimum...but knowing that would include too many and god forbid to use simple logic to explain an acronym, its great to nit pick & point at games going "thats no mmo, no sir!" - "instancing is makes it not/less an mmo" - etc, etc.  The topic is dull & utterly useless to even ask the question, a better one for you:  

Why shouldn't MMORPG list more games as MMORPGs?  Its their site & it opens the flood gates for this inane discussion.  Oh wait, maybe thats why they don't then...

"Its an online RPG or a co-op RPG, its not an MMO" ....they never will be 'massive' enough for you, or have enough "immersion"...so really just let it go.  Its as bad as genre-tizing in music these days, now we need to clarify our MMOs or else our precious classics will be belittled by such despicable claims! how dare they!

No no, the main point of this thread isn't questioning listed games like GuildWars. It's question the recant addition of F2P FirstPersonShooter games. These games are neither MMO or RPG. They're FPS with a limited number of players (16 in SuddenAttack), so why are they here, listed as MMORPGs? See what I'm saying.
These games have existed for ages, for about 4 or 5 years. But only just recantly they've been put on the list, so obviously it's a decision they've made recantly that classifies FPS games as MMORPGs.

Oh, and arenasb: Maybe you should look into GuildWars a little more. The developers themselves say: "Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game)." (Source: GuildWars FAQ). Or by your standards, is that only their opinion?
They explain its differences from a typical MMORPG, and prefer to call it a CORPG. Like I said, the only MMO part is the towns. It's a good game, I'm not bashing the game at all so don't get me wrong. But it's not an MMO (once you get outside the towns and play the game), though.
 

Originally posted by Axehilt

Adam1902, the changes made to the genre have made it inarguably more popular.  WOW and modern MMORPGs are inarguably more fun to a larger group of people than UO.

If you don't call that evolution, I'm not really sure what to say.

I'm not even sure I'd call this "dumbing down" the genre.  Perhaps you'd care to explain what made UO so "complex"?

To me it always sounded rather rudimentary and simplistic, with a weak combat system and poorly thought out game mechanics (well-thought out for their day, but the inelegance is to be expected for any pioneering individual.)

Oh it had plenty of freedom, but that freedom didn't sound like it created deep/interesting gameplay.

Nice post, and I totally see what you're saying.
But, imagine yesterdays features, with todays graphically enhanced 3D worlds and game engines. I personally believe that the only reason this hasn't been done in a fantasy MMO (there are reasons why it can be done in a game like Eve Online) is because of technology limitations.

"My opinion, GW is an mmo. How about them apples?"
Don't mean to be picky, but things like this is fact, not really opinion. GuildWars is not an MMO, and the only 'MMO' part about it is the towns. Actually, I believe it says on their website somewhere in black & white, that GuildWars is not an MMO, they prefer to call it a -can't remember-. Not sure if it's still there or not.

"however mmorpg.com has put that number at 500"
Ah-ha! Now this is interesting. You see, most Korean FPS games (such as all the ones on the list here) are slightly different to the way "our" "western" FPS games work. In CounterStrike, or Call of Duty for example, the game servers (rooms where you play the game) are hosted by the players and gaming communities themselves, they are not hosted by the game developers (although a couple might be).

In Korean FPS, I'll use SuddenAttack as an example (because I believe this is what made FPS games take off in Korea). The rooms are not actually hosted by a players connection, infact none of it is hosted by the players connection. In SuddenAttack, you login -> Connect to a server (which holds 500 players!) -> then join a room (16 players max) which has been made by a player. Like I said, these rooms are not hosted by the player, they run from the server. In a server, there is many rooms holding 16 players, so technically, all these players are playing on the same server, right? See what I'm saying?
So they have the technology to have 500 people connected to 1 server, but they aren't using it to put those 500 players in the same game. 16 players is the max to a game. WarRock works like this, CombatArms works like this. All the Korean FPS games seem to (which seem to be the ones that are listed).

So, are they defining the term 'MMO' by what the technology they are using is probably capable of, and not the actual gameplay its self? See what I'm saying?

Another note: It's cool to have a general gaming section and all, definately a good thing. But at the end of the day, this is an MMORPG website, which I assume to come to for talking about MMORPGs? ;) It's good having a general gaming forum, but listing them in the MMORPG list is strange to me (yes, it's their site I know). Maybe if they seperate the list, MMOs and general game sections.

Ah, and someone posted something along the lines of "Oh, who looks at the list, it's useless". Actually, I look at the list, so I'm sure quite alot more do. I basically use this website to inform me of MMORPGs. This is what I use to know about new MMORPGs in the making, being released etc. This is the website that when I'm researching a game for example, I'd come look here first, and follow the links off this site to lead on to more information.
This site is quite a bit more than a forum. You got blogs, reviews, news, "the List", etc. ;)

Anyway, sorry about the way I've been quoting.
Interesting replies,
Cheers.

Made me laugh, and I agree with all of it apart from the exploits part. I'd report the exploit, and I suppose I'd use it myself if others are using it on me (I know, I know!) untill it's fixed.

However I won't camp a player and stop him from playing the game for no reason. If I see an enemy, yeah kill him and move on. See him again later? Try to pull it off (killing him) again!. But I don't sit there waiting for him and camping him and intentionally going for the same player, trying to make him log off. Unless ofcourse, he's done the same to me. Mess with me I'll give you all I can. :D

Oh yes, GuildWars etc is definately more MMO (and it's an RPG!) than FPS games. These generic FPS games are not MMO at all (Planetside is however, see the difference?).

A couple of posts irritated me a little (sorry, just being honest :D, don't take me personal), those were "Why do I care about a genre classification so much?", and "the genre is evolving".

Well... I can tell you that the MMO genre is definately not evolving (yet), but rather, it is de-evolving. The only thing that's evolving is graphics and effects.
Look at this for instance, Ultima Online. One of the first MMOs in the west, the one that started it all pretty much, I like to think that this game almost defines what MMO really means. Some people won't understand where I'm going with this, but let me say this: Ultima was an completely open world with no instancing, it had player housing, and each player had a totally different aim from the next. For example, one players aim would to be a popular trader and crafter. The next persons aim might of been to build a village. Someone else might want to put an end to PKing, whilst the other guy would want to be a criminal who lives by killing and robbing other players. The game may not have had spectacular graphics, but that was because of the date it was made.

Now, we've gone from this game, to WoW. In WoW, every player has the same objective. You are limited to your class by what you choose at the character screen, your enemes are pre-chosen for you at the character screen. Every player has the same goal, get to lv.80, then raid (or PvP for gear, I suppose you have the "PvEers" and "PvPers". Even this is bad point in my eyes, in WoW PvE is totally seperate from PvP, like they're different games almost. In Ultima, PvP tied in with everything). You might want to punch me in my whiney ranting face, and say "HEY! You can craft and trade in WoW, what the f*** are you talking about?". Ahh, yes you can indeed. However, your chaaracter cannot live his "life" in the game, being a crafter and trader. Unless ofcourse you don't want to get anywhere in the game. It's actually quite hard to explain.

Anyway, I'm not trying to say WoW isn't an MMO, because yes. WoW is an MMORPG, wether I like it or not. I'm just explaining how the genre, in general has been dumbed down. There is less diversity, every player does the same thing with the same objective. The genre has de-evolved rather than evolved in my eyes.

This whole post is off-topic by the way, I wanted to answer the question "Why I care so much", and exlain to the other poster why I think MMORPGs haven't evolved.

Anyway, back on topic. They're listing non-persistant (except for items), room based generic online FPS games on MMORPG.com now. These are NOT MMOs, in any way, shape or form. They are not RPGs either. They have no place on this website, so what are they doing here? I've seen answers such as "because they can", "it's their site", etc. Yes, that is quite obvious, it's their site and they can do whatever they want with it. But my question of "WHY do they list those games here?" still stands.

Whew! Wall of text, eh?
Seen a few intresting replies anyway, cheers.

Hey.
Okay, this is starting to bug me a little bit. I remember a few years ago, when GuildWars was added to the list, and I shook my head because it isn't an MMO, only an online RPG. Same with Phantasy Star Universe. The only "MMO" part about these games, is the towns, which basically act as virtual lobbies and nothing more. Fair enough, they're both RPGs and they have 3D lobbies that could be considered MMO, fair enough. Listing games like these didn't bother me too much, I suppose.

Now, recantly they have been putting games on the list such as WarRock, and SuddenAttack. Can I ask why? Both of these games are FPS games, and no. They are not MMOFPS games, in terms of gameplay they're the same thing as Call of Duty or CounterStrike. In SuddenAttack for example, each server cannot hold more than 16 players. This is neither MMO, nor RPG, it's an online FPS. This made me think-  "alright... Weired. They're starting to list all those Korean FPS games that market themselves towards MMORPG players, why?".
And then it hit me: Maybe they list these Korean FPS games, because the "money" you earn, and the weapons you buy is persistant, and you take it all with you from game to game. This is why they list it, right?

Well personally I think it's bloody stupid. A couple of days ago I was talking to a friend of mine who thought CounterStrike was an MMOFPS. I'll say no more. Listing games like these will confuse the heck out of newer gamers.
Then where will it stop? Pretty soon Quake, Call of Duty, Halo, CounterStrike, will all be listed on this website being called "MMOs". Every single online game should be on here in this case. Why isn't Diablo 2 on here? Diablo 2 fits the website more-so than these FPS games. Diablo 2 follows the same layout as these Koraen FPS games, you take your progression with you from room-to-room. However, Diablo is actually an RPG.

Has the acronym "MMO" truely lost its meaning these days?
As far as I can see, all new gamers think "MMO" simply means "you can play it online".

This is actually quite sad to see, actually. I think what's caused this confusion is developers making very heavily instanced games (a la PhantasyStarUniverse), and labeling them MMOs.

Anyway, question to the MMORPG.com authorities, what's going on with the website? Are you going to start listing all online games now? Maybe you should change the name to OnlineGame.com. It's a shame to see this happen, that even the high-ups of MMORPG.com cannot see the difference between an "MMO", and an "online game". Or can they? Maybe these games paid to get listed here, to market towards MMO players more?

I just want to know what's going on that's all. Has MMO really lost its meaning, don't people know the difference anymore? Or is this not a mistake?

Cheers,
/Discuss.

PS. I don't dislike the games I talked about in this post. I used to play PhantasyStarOnline way back on the Dreamcast, love the game and have lots of memories of it. And I've been playing SuddenAttack almost daily for a couple of months now. Don't get me wrong, I like the games. They just have no place on this website. Don't you agree?
 

Because it's different in Aion.
In AoC they tried to make their "channel instancing" work WITH the game. For example, you could walk out of a city, then walk back in and there'd be a completely different set of people in there. If you were PvPing someone, he could run out of the zone, and back in and go to a different "instance" of the zone, which the PKer had a completely random chance of getting into.
It totally killed immersion.

In Aion, you choose which "channel" you want to play in when logging in I believe. Once you're in, you're in. You're not going to walk out of an area, then next time you go back in, everyones gone because it's started a fresh "instance". No no no.
See what I mean? :P The way it's done in Aion, won't kill immersion.

Just a quick question: And I'll admit that I haven't put in the time to do my research before asking, and I apologise for this.

Is the Open Beta open to everyone, or only people who have pre-ordered the game? I'm considering giving Aion a try, but am too afraid to pre-order (Yeah, I'm poor. No need for anyone to point it out) incase I end up disliking the game and wasting my money. It'd be great to have, in a sense a free trial prior to the games release, so I can then decide wether to jump on the bandwagon and pre-order.

Anyway,
thanks in advance.

When it shuts down, just release the server setup software to the public. Then people can create private servers.
Keep in mind though, these files 99.9% of the time get leaked before the game even shuts down, so most of the time this won't even be needed.

Originally posted by oskironmaide

Sound 0/10= wtf is with that scream when you die

LMAO!
Bet you got sick of hearing that one, eh? *grin*

I totally agree with the point the OP is trying to make.
Sad but true, the genre is turning to shit in my opinion. I just wish that companies would stop calling all these crappy games, Warhammer, APB etc MMOs.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by DarthRaiden   STOP TROLLING

"Explore five continents, countless small islands, trackless underwater depths, and a sprawling underworld. Hundreds of dungeons and adventure areas await."

- there are 5 continents, and i coudnt count the islands check  << i did not dispute the five continents.  i asked about the HUNDREDS of dungeons and adventure areas SPECIFICALLY.  false statement by darth.

Play any of Agon's six dominant races. Each race has a unique set of abilities, as well as its own civilization, culture, and way of life.

-6 playable races with unique styles, culture.. check  << i asked SPECIFICALLY about what are the unique abilvities, which you have edited out and ignored.  another twist of what was actually asked, 2 now darth.

Meet hundreds of unique monsters, and take them on in their lairs, strongholds and domains. Repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past.

-Dont counted there are much, you can take them on thgeir lairs,m strongholds and domains  check  << there are not hundreds of unique monsters, you ignored completely the part about 'repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past'. this is also something i SPECIFICALLY bring up.  you're three for three misinforming statements darth.  that is called trolling.

Travel through geographically diverse regions that are alive with plants, trees, birds, animals, and even insects

-geographically diverse regions  with plants, trees, some birds / insects in the sky check

Experience a world brought to life by real-world physics and dynamic lighting and shadows. Watch trees and grass sway in the wind as sunlight peeks through passing clouds. Observe the movements of Agon's twin moons, which are part of a dynamic planetary system with smooth day/night cycles. Sail your ship through rough seas, then become hampered by fog as the waters calm. Struggle as your battlefield-bound army marches into a severe storm. In Darkfall, the weather is more than just window dressing.

-Dynamic light and shadows, trees and grass sway in the wind, sunlight peeks through passing clouds, Agons twin moons move, day night cycles check

Darkfall?s terrain has been painstakingly hand-crafted by our artists, rather than conveniently auto-generated. This means non-repetitive, unpredictable, and unique locations to explore, discover and use. Darkfall's world is full of wonders, small and large.

-Darkfalls terrain has been painstakingly hand-crafted by our artists, rather than conveniently auto-generated. This means non-repetitive, unpredictable, and unique locations to explore, discover and use. Darkfall's world is full of wonders, small and large. check

i'm not going to address all three of these.  i posted information and i made specific comments about every one of them - these are what i am asking about.  i am not asking about every single item.  i am not, as you previously suggested, nitpicking.  i am asking SPECIFIC questions about SPECIFIC features.  you are completely ignoring every single question i have posed thus far.  that is TROLLING.  STOP TROLLING DARTH.
 

 

Uncover the mysteries of an ancient civilization, which left more than just ruins for later generations to discover. Untold riches and incredible power is the prize, as you join the race to claim an age-old inheritance

 

-ruins to discover all over the world, pointing to mysteries of an ancient  civilization check  << answer the questions i posed darth.  all you have done thus far is troll  -- STOP TROLLING.

 

 

are you incapable of answering any questions at all that i have raised?  you have ignored every single question i have posed.  all you are doing is flamebaiting, giving misinformation, and trolling  -- STOP IT DARTH. 

You're telling Darth that he's trolling and flamebaiting? Oh, jesus. What question did you ask? You didn't ask a question apart from "i'm reading thru the current features available to me ingame. as a player of darkfall, i'm curious as to what exactly is being advertised on the official, updated website?". My answer to this, is that you are incorrect and mis-informed. This website is not "updated" and they are not trying to "advertise" their game through it. This is why they are keeping Darkfall sales hidden, only accessable by the Darkfall community for time being.

When people reply to your posts with facts, do NOT tell them they're trolling, mis-informing, flamebating etc. Because this is infact EXACTLY what you are doing. This person is not "baiting" you to reply, you're doing the bating.

So, can I ask you to stop?

 EDIT: Also, why didn't you reply to any of my posts which, this time did infact contain quotes and facts from RECANT news updates taken from the forum? Was it helpful to you at all, or..?

damian, I wish you'd stop telling people they're trolling, when they're trying to prove a point. You always post the same lines, "we darkfallz plaiorz..." etc etc... I highly doubt you play Darkfall, otherwise you'd be enjoying the game rather than trolling its players through a forum that allows this sort of behaviour. I have to admit it's pretty smart, calling others a troll to try and indicate that you are not a troll.

You are always complaining about the website that everyone knows was made like 5 years ago. I mean even your first complaint proves that you haven't really played long enough to justify posting this thread. Where you ask what is underwater to explore, there is actually tunnels leading to hamlets located underwater.

Very smart trolling indeed.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Adam1902

Originally posted by damian7

i'm reading thru the current features available to me ingame.  as a player of darkfall, i'm curious as to what exactly is being advertised on the official, updated website?

 

Explore five continents, countless small islands, trackless underwater depths, and a sprawling underworld. Hundreds of dungeons and adventure areas await. <<since they mention these items.. doesn't that mean something worthwhile exists in these areas? what is underwater, in regards to exploration and adventure? hundreds of dungeons and adventure areas? i take adventure areas to be like... a fort with trolls or elves in it... hundreds??? where's my hundreds???

Play any of Agon's six dominant races. Each race has a unique set of abilities, as well as its own civilization, culture, and way of life. <<< unique set of abiltieis? like the wolf guys running as fast as a horsey? oh wait... that doesn't exist. what are my unique racial abilties again?
 

Meet hundreds of unique monsters, and take them on in their lairs, strongholds and domains. Repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past.  <<< hundreds of unique monsters?  repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past?  where are my hundreds of uniques and my non-repetitive encounters?

Experience a world brought to life by real-world physics and dynamic lighting and shadows. Watch trees and grass sway in the wind as sunlight peeks through passing clouds. Observe the movements of Agon's twin moons, which are part of a dynamic planetary system with smooth day/night cycles. Sail your ship through rough seas, then become hampered by fog as the waters calm. Struggle as your battlefield-bound army marches into a severe storm. In Darkfall, the weather is more than just window dressing.   <<< um, where is all this weather that has such crazy affects on warfare (both land and sea)... i mean, the weather in darkfall is more than just window dressing... why is it that a wind which can move a huge 200'+ tall tree, at its base... doesn't even mess up the hair on my character?  i mean... wind that can move that tree, at its base... is hurricane cat 5 if not 6...

Uncover the mysteries of an ancient civilization, which left more than just ruins for later generations to discover. Untold riches and incredible power is the prize, as you join the race to claim an age-old inheritance  << a number of us have traveled far and wide... wtf does this statement refer to?  has anyone found ANY of this?

You don?t have to spend endless hours playing in order to enjoy yourself, or to become successful. Even if you only play in small doses, your character can be effective within his chosen field, and a lot of fun to play. Whether you?re looking for intense involvement or just casual fun without a huge time investment, Darkfall accommodates your playing style.   <<< actual experience playing ingame proves this statement to be false.  in order to be successful, in pretty much any field, you have to macro for days/weeks.  if someone has experiences that contradict these experiences of myself (and clan/alliance m8s of mine); please post the examples, not just "nuh huh, you're wrong"... cuz it's rigor pyramids, walls of pain, swimming/running/sprinting/crouchwalking while at work/sleep, and all sorts of other macroing, in order to be considered successful in darkfall.

 

In Darkfall, there?s much more to character development than, say, raising your riding or mining skill by mindlessly killing rats all day. Instead, you'll need to practice your skills if you want to get better at them. Darkfall?s skill based system makes sense, and it saves you from having to waste your playing time leveling.   << again, from actually playing the game, all i do is level my character.  every 25 points of a skill, you get the message "your skill X has increased to a new level".  everyone shoots for the skill 75+ area of skills.  so it's just a bunch of macroing to get to that level.  the core of the game is sieging (i.e. taking and holding territory), you NEED to have high levels of combat skills (both attack and defense) in order to be successful at sieging.  yes, a lot of zerging happens... a lot of zergers also have high levels in their skils.

 

You will never have to re-roll your character again. With Darkfall?s flexible character development system, your character simply adapts to the choices you make for him. We give you hundreds of skills to learn and master, and around a hundred Prestige classes to further specialize in.   << what prestige classes?

You have the freedom to follow the rules, or to break them and face the consequences. Darkfall?s Alignment system is hard but fair.  << um... big deal, i become "evil" and i can't go to the starter areas... is there something in the starter areas that i care about?  i don't understand how this alignment system matters at all.

Multiple safeguards protect you from cheats and exploits that would otherwise interfere with your gaming experience.  << this is about the most inaccurate statement so far -- speed hacks, piggy backing, flying ships, et cetera...

 

In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players. << this is simply a lie.

Darkfall?s crafting system is intuitive, non-repetitive, challenging, useful, fun - and profitable. Using Darkfall?s virtually limitless item creator system, you could invent and be the first to use a weapon as awesome as the Flamefury Raudstaal Battleaxe of Bloodshed, or just make a simple saddle for your horse.   << the bolded, italicized, underlined portion is simply a lie.

 

Bring your goods to market using Darkfall?s sophisticated and secure trading system, bringing buyers and sellers together easily whether they?re inside the game or not.  << this does not exist.

Protect your home and expand your holdings as you build your empire. In Darkfall, clans struggle for supremacy and survival as they compete over land ownership, resources, and strategic objectives.  << what strategic objectives?  it lists land ownership, resources AND strategic objectives... i can see the first two... where is the third?

Your victories are documented for posterity and success is measurable, so you'll never have to wonder what really happened. << where is the "legend" "legendary" or whatever this system is called.. where is it?

There are no safe zones in Darkfall. The only protection you can count on is your friends watching your back.   << tons of safe zones.  this is another outright lie.

Darkfall places no restrictions on player interaction, so there are no developer imposed safe zones, no realms, factions, PvP zones, or any other roadblocks that limit your game. Anyone can fight anyone, anywhere as long as they are willing to face the consequences - in the form of Darkfall?s alignment system.  << did someone forget to tell tasos that darkfall has safe zones? and again, what purpose does the alignment system serve, in a practical sense?

 

  You can enjoy easy communication with your friends, even while outside the game. Darkfall?s Communication interface includes in-game message and trade boards, an IRC-style chat system, instant messaging, voice support, and even mobile phone SMS messaging.<< how do i activate something other than the bulky, idiotically implemented text chat?

Trade your hard earned items using Darkfall?s secure trade interface and in-game trade boards.   << does darkfall have ANY features which the site says it has?  seriously.

When you play Darkfall, you take part in a constantly evolving, world-spanning storyline. Your reputation will precede you, and your fame will grow through clan victories and individual achievements. Whether you're a fearless fighter, a respected leader, a persuasive politician, or a skilled artisan, you will get the recognition you deserve. In Darkfall, your deeds and views are recorded and chronicled as you become a part of - and a shaper of - world history. With Darkfall?s narrative Legend system, your name will live in fame or in infamy, and it will never be forgotten.  <<the narrative legend system is... where exactly?  more lies?

Top clans and top individual players from various gaming genres will be there, along with over ten thousand simultaneous players per world. You?re in very good company.  << over ten thousand simultaneous (means the same as "concurrent") players per world... do NOT see this happening.  if someone has factual links to this occurring, please provide them.  i think this is more bullshit at this point.

Test your mettle in Darkfall?s Arena Events where individual players and teams compete for fun and profit.   << you do not build "teams" to siege.  sieging is not competition for fun.  where are these arena events?  this is listed completely separately from other types of "pvp", so please do not attempt to mistake this with something OTHER than what it plainly states itself to be.

Every single person involved in the production of Darkfall is a gamer first and foremost. We?ve been where you?ve been, and we play the games you play.  <<< if this is true; then, why don't they build the game we want to play?

We are committed to delivering and maintaining a complete, stable, and balanced game; a game that makes good on its promises, with regular and free expansion-size updates, prompt and swift customer service, and superior value for our players. << total and complete bullshit.

Darkfall offers you more ways to give feedback, and more ways to collaborate with the Darkfall Team in the evolution of the game. Your voice is heard loud and clear.  <<i do not think these words mean what tasos and company think they mean.

 

 

they have recently updated the website, as a couple of dozen OTHER features, which were advertised for YEARS on the official site, have been removed...

 

so, does anyone have information on where/how to access all these advertised features?  i mean, i could just be really stupid and unable to figure out how to access all these groovy features in (and out) of game.  my clan and alliance can both be filled with idiots and unable to figure any of these items out.

but, as a darkfall player, i truly am tired of people lying about what this game is supposed to have, and is not supposed to have.  this is a truncated list, as they DID delete many features from the website, a couple of months AFTER the game was released into retail.

 

several items in the list above, i have seen numerous people on this forum, making contradictory statements about.  for example, recently someone went on about "darkfall people have NEVER claimed to be able to handle 10,000 concurrent players, just 10,000 subs"... quite a few items listed above, have been routinely contradicted by people on this forum, and since no one can be bothered to read the official website and stop misquoting it -- i have quoted it for everyone.

 

again, please, if you have examples of the items which i believe are missing... provide them... thanks in advance to everyone for your efforts in this collaborative effort.

 

 

 

I'll keep it nice and short.
The website is out of date, everyone knows this. It hasn't been updated for 4 or more years.

They will be bringing us a new site "soon", and my guess is that you will probably be able to use in-game features (friends, clan management) through the site.

I'll edit the post with a link where they hint at a new site.

 

the site has been recently updated, as a number of items have been removed, or changed (i.e. only one character per account).

so i don't know why you're saying the site is out of date.

it was updated directly prior to release (remember the jokes about the new border?), and it's been updated at least twice, if not three times, since release.

 

i'm dealing with factual information.  not spurious statements with nothing to back them.  please stick with the facts.  thank you.

Read my now edited post.
If you seriously think the new boarder was a website update, you are out of your mind. My guess is that it was probably accidental if anything.
And yeah, they changed some text to remove some features that aren't in the game, and obviously missed some out. This is also not a new website. So, like you said. Stick to the facts. The website IS out of date. And deleting text does not qualify as a new site.

Originally posted by damian7

i'm reading thru the current features available to me ingame.  as a player of darkfall, i'm curious as to what exactly is being advertised on the official, updated website?

 

Explore five continents, countless small islands, trackless underwater depths, and a sprawling underworld. Hundreds of dungeons and adventure areas await. <<since they mention these items.. doesn't that mean something worthwhile exists in these areas? what is underwater, in regards to exploration and adventure? hundreds of dungeons and adventure areas? i take adventure areas to be like... a fort with trolls or elves in it... hundreds??? where's my hundreds???

Play any of Agon's six dominant races. Each race has a unique set of abilities, as well as its own civilization, culture, and way of life. <<< unique set of abiltieis? like the wolf guys running as fast as a horsey? oh wait... that doesn't exist. what are my unique racial abilties again?
 

Meet hundreds of unique monsters, and take them on in their lairs, strongholds and domains. Repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past.  <<< hundreds of unique monsters?  repetitive monster encounters are a thing of the past?  where are my hundreds of uniques and my non-repetitive encounters?

Experience a world brought to life by real-world physics and dynamic lighting and shadows. Watch trees and grass sway in the wind as sunlight peeks through passing clouds. Observe the movements of Agon's twin moons, which are part of a dynamic planetary system with smooth day/night cycles. Sail your ship through rough seas, then become hampered by fog as the waters calm. Struggle as your battlefield-bound army marches into a severe storm. In Darkfall, the weather is more than just window dressing.   <<< um, where is all this weather that has such crazy affects on warfare (both land and sea)... i mean, the weather in darkfall is more than just window dressing... why is it that a wind which can move a huge 200'+ tall tree, at its base... doesn't even mess up the hair on my character?  i mean... wind that can move that tree, at its base... is hurricane cat 5 if not 6...

Uncover the mysteries of an ancient civilization, which left more than just ruins for later generations to discover. Untold riches and incredible power is the prize, as you join the race to claim an age-old inheritance  << a number of us have traveled far and wide... wtf does this statement refer to?  has anyone found ANY of this?

You don?t have to spend endless hours playing in order to enjoy yourself, or to become successful. Even if you only play in small doses, your character can be effective within his chosen field, and a lot of fun to play. Whether you?re looking for intense involvement or just casual fun without a huge time investment, Darkfall accommodates your playing style.   <<< actual experience playing ingame proves this statement to be false.  in order to be successful, in pretty much any field, you have to macro for days/weeks.  if someone has experiences that contradict these experiences of myself (and clan/alliance m8s of mine); please post the examples, not just "nuh huh, you're wrong"... cuz it's rigor pyramids, walls of pain, swimming/running/sprinting/crouchwalking while at work/sleep, and all sorts of other macroing, in order to be considered successful in darkfall.

 

In Darkfall, there?s much more to character development than, say, raising your riding or mining skill by mindlessly killing rats all day. Instead, you'll need to practice your skills if you want to get better at them. Darkfall?s skill based system makes sense, and it saves you from having to waste your playing time leveling.   << again, from actually playing the game, all i do is level my character.  every 25 points of a skill, you get the message "your skill X has increased to a new level".  everyone shoots for the skill 75+ area of skills.  so it's just a bunch of macroing to get to that level.  the core of the game is sieging (i.e. taking and holding territory), you NEED to have high levels of combat skills (both attack and defense) in order to be successful at sieging.  yes, a lot of zerging happens... a lot of zergers also have high levels in their skils.

 

You will never have to re-roll your character again. With Darkfall?s flexible character development system, your character simply adapts to the choices you make for him. We give you hundreds of skills to learn and master, and around a hundred Prestige classes to further specialize in.   << what prestige classes?

You have the freedom to follow the rules, or to break them and face the consequences. Darkfall?s Alignment system is hard but fair.  << um... big deal, i become "evil" and i can't go to the starter areas... is there something in the starter areas that i care about?  i don't understand how this alignment system matters at all.

Multiple safeguards protect you from cheats and exploits that would otherwise interfere with your gaming experience.  << this is about the most inaccurate statement so far -- speed hacks, piggy backing, flying ships, et cetera...

 

In Darkfall, all items in the world can be made by the players. << this is simply a lie.

Darkfall?s crafting system is intuitive, non-repetitive, challenging, useful, fun - and profitable. Using Darkfall?s virtually limitless item creator system, you could invent and be the first to use a weapon as awesome as the Flamefury Raudstaal Battleaxe of Bloodshed, or just make a simple saddle for your horse.   << the bolded, italicized, underlined portion is simply a lie.

 

Bring your goods to market using Darkfall?s sophisticated and secure trading system, bringing buyers and sellers together easily whether they?re inside the game or not.  << this does not exist.

Protect your home and expand your holdings as you build your empire. In Darkfall, clans struggle for supremacy and survival as they compete over land ownership, resources, and strategic objectives.  << what strategic objectives?  it lists land ownership, resources AND strategic objectives... i can see the first two... where is the third?

Your victories are documented for posterity and success is measurable, so you'll never have to wonder what really happened. << where is the "legend" "legendary" or whatever this system is called.. where is it?

There are no safe zones in Darkfall. The only protection you can count on is your friends watching your back.   << tons of safe zones.  this is another outright lie.

Darkfall places no restrictions on player interaction, so there are no developer imposed safe zones, no realms, factions, PvP zones, or any other roadblocks that limit your game. Anyone can fight anyone, anywhere as long as they are willing to face the consequences - in the form of Darkfall?s alignment system.  << did someone forget to tell tasos that darkfall has safe zones? and again, what purpose does the alignment system serve, in a practical sense?

 

  You can enjoy easy communication with your friends, even while outside the game. Darkfall?s Communication interface includes in-game message and trade boards, an IRC-style chat system, instant messaging, voice support, and even mobile phone SMS messaging.<< how do i activate something other than the bulky, idiotically implemented text chat?

Trade your hard earned items using Darkfall?s secure trade interface and in-game trade boards.   << does darkfall have ANY features which the site says it has?  seriously.

When you play Darkfall, you take part in a constantly evolving, world-spanning storyline. Your reputation will precede you, and your fame will grow through clan victories and individual achievements. Whether you're a fearless fighter, a respected leader, a persuasive politician, or a skilled artisan, you will get the recognition you deserve. In Darkfall, your deeds and views are recorded and chronicled as you become a part of - and a shaper of - world history. With Darkfall?s narrative Legend system, your name will live in fame or in infamy, and it will never be forgotten.  <<the narrative legend system is... where exactly?  more lies?

Top clans and top individual players from various gaming genres will be there, along with over ten thousand simultaneous players per world. You?re in very good company.  << over ten thousand simultaneous (means the same as "concurrent") players per world... do NOT see this happening.  if someone has factual links to this occurring, please provide them.  i think this is more bullshit at this point.

Test your mettle in Darkfall?s Arena Events where individual players and teams compete for fun and profit.   << you do not build "teams" to siege.  sieging is not competition for fun.  where are these arena events?  this is listed completely separately from other types of "pvp", so please do not attempt to mistake this with something OTHER than what it plainly states itself to be.

Every single person involved in the production of Darkfall is a gamer first and foremost. We?ve been where you?ve been, and we play the games you play.  <<< if this is true; then, why don't they build the game we want to play?

We are committed to delivering and maintaining a complete, stable, and balanced game; a game that makes good on its promises, with regular and free expansion-size updates, prompt and swift customer service, and superior value for our players. << total and complete bullshit.

Darkfall offers you more ways to give feedback, and more ways to collaborate with the Darkfall Team in the evolution of the game. Your voice is heard loud and clear.  <<i do not think these words mean what tasos and company think they mean.

 

 

they have recently updated the website, as a couple of dozen OTHER features, which were advertised for YEARS on the official site, have been removed...

 

so, does anyone have information on where/how to access all these advertised features?  i mean, i could just be really stupid and unable to figure out how to access all these groovy features in (and out) of game.  my clan and alliance can both be filled with idiots and unable to figure any of these items out.

but, as a darkfall player, i truly am tired of people lying about what this game is supposed to have, and is not supposed to have.  this is a truncated list, as they DID delete many features from the website, a couple of months AFTER the game was released into retail.

 

several items in the list above, i have seen numerous people on this forum, making contradictory statements about.  for example, recently someone went on about "darkfall people have NEVER claimed to be able to handle 10,000 concurrent players, just 10,000 subs"... quite a few items listed above, have been routinely contradicted by people on this forum, and since no one can be bothered to read the official website and stop misquoting it -- i have quoted it for everyone.

 

again, please, if you have examples of the items which i believe are missing... provide them... thanks in advance to everyone for your efforts in this collaborative effort.

 

 

 

I'll keep it nice and short.
The website is out of date, everyone knows this. It hasn't been updated for 4 or more years.

They will be bringing us a new site "soon", and my guess is that you will probably be able to use in-game features (friends, clan management) through the site.

I'll edit the post with a link where they hint at a new site.

EDIT: Here you go:
Our number one concern is the quality of the experience for our existing users. We don’t want to create any problems by allowing too many new users in. This is why we have no boxes in the market, why we haven’t been promoting the game, why our new site isn’t up yet, why we don’t offer a free trial, why we don’t offer more payment options etc.
- http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=191365

They want to make Darkfall more public, they want to upgrade their website. But they feel that with only one server, the demand will be too high, this is why there is still no “Buy Darkfall” button anywhere and our release has been limited to the Darkfall community. aswell as they probably don't want to use resources on a website just yet. Things will change when they get a new / some new servers open I believe.

This kind of information honestly isn't hard to find if you simply read the news on their forum.

 

Originally posted by madeux

Troll much?

.. I hope that wasn't directed at me? I'm not intending to troll, sorry if I came across as one.
If it's directed at the OP, maybe he's just doing some research on F2P games. Imaging the extreme, in order to start discussion on why F2P players disagree with this "pay to win, money is the be all end all" logic.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Adam1902

If that's how the game works, what the HELL is the point in even playing?
That is not what an Item Mall is all about, I'm afraid. The bonuses should be as small as possible, whilst still being useful and makie people buy them. The whole game should not be about how much god damn money you can put in, thanks.

So if some celeb played the game, within 5 minutes of entering his credit card details, he's the best in the game. No thanks. I absolutely hate this logic as someone who has played and enjoyed a couple of Item Mall based games.

Classic MMO, Legend of Mir will now be having a Cash Shop.
The biggest XP boost you can buy will be 30%. That's just right, in my opinion. Reasonable boost to justify buying it, but not big enough to give you just a stupidly overpowering advantage.

 

And that's probably where the disagreement comes from. IMO, this is a stupidly overpowering advantage. I can't imagine I'd ever play the game without the XP boost. 

I've got a question though. Imagine if this were an xp boost for groupiing. Do y ou think people would say this is JUST RIGHT, or they would say "OMG! Forced GROUPING! 30%! I HAVE to GROUP for 30%! or it's not fair!"

Would you be ok witha 30% bonus for grouping? If not, how is it just right for cash, but not for grouping?

Yes, people who are dedicated to the game will most likely not play without that XP boost, you're right. But, apparently the XP boost will be included in all of the 30 day packages, which I assume will cost around the price of a monthly fee. Basically, "Free 2 play" is a marketing stratergy that gets people to try the game, "why not right? it's free!". If those people decide they like the game and are there to stay, then most likely they will buy one of these 30 day packages every month, and basically treat it like a P2P game.
Another bonus of "free" (I'm using quotations, because really, it isn't free) MMOs, is the fact that when you're not playing the game, maybe because you've currently got a busy real life, or whatever else, you can still log in-game to see how everyones doing. Or log in-game to help your guild out in a war maybe. You are not banished from the game because you didn't pay your monthly tax, see what I'm saying?

Another point to make about this part, is to keep in mind that some people, are simply better players than others. In Mir for example, in an hour I can do say, 8.2%, whilst someone else can only do 4.4%. Same class, same lvl (and we used the same gear, just to test, had a race). I have better knowledge of the game, and am probably a more efficient grinder than this player. However, my r/l friend, can play even more efficiently than me.
Now we've got that out of the way, let us imagine everyones player skill is equal, and everyone grinds at the exact same speed. A player that cannot afford to buy the boost, will probably play 30%+ more than a player who can afford it anyway, I'm generalising here assuming he doesn't have a job. People who don't buy it (why wouldn't you?) can very well be as good / better than ones who do. Keep in mind, 30% isn't even double speed. Infact, it isn't even "half of double" speed.

Well, Mir is actually a pretty variable game to be honest, if you know what you're doing whilst solo, you can grind as fast (faster even) as a 10-player group, it depends on a few things, aswell as skill and knowledge of the game, things such as, how crowded the area is, etc (Yes, so you have to make decisions based on what other people do in Mir! Oh my god right? I know! :P). However, assuming you're talking about "free" MMOs in general, then probably the "solo croud" (can't understand why they play MMOs personally..?) will ofcourse not like it. This 30% bonus for grouping you're talking about, changes the way people play the game, it caters to one playstyle, over another. The 30% XP boost for paying a monthly fee however, simply means "if you enjoy the game, why not pay a monthly fee like every other MMO, AND get a sexy bonus". Wether you pay or not, does not change the direction the game is heading, in terms of which type of player it is trying to attract. Do you see what I'm saying?

Your theory of what a "free" MMO should be made into (£1 per level, for example) is just extreme. It's not even a game anymore, I mean, do you play it? Or just insert more coins to win?
See what I'm saying?

If that's how the game works, what the HELL is the point in even playing?
That is not what an Item Mall is all about, I'm afraid. The bonuses should be as small as possible, whilst still being useful and makie people buy them. The whole game should not be about how much god damn money you can put in, thanks.

So if some celeb played the game, within 5 minutes of entering his credit card details, he's the best in the game. No thanks. I absolutely hate this logic as someone who has played and enjoyed a couple of Item Mall based games.

Classic MMO, Legend of Mir will now be having a Cash Shop.
The biggest XP boost you can buy will be 30%. That's just right, in my opinion. Reasonable boost to justify buying it, but not big enough to give you just a stupidly overpowering advantage.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Adam1902

Well your post seems to be focusing on graphics, especially with the don't want to look at a bucket of puke... statement. As far as graphics in Darkfall, I think they're good. Yeah, thats right. I like the graphics in Darkfall, and yes, I do think it's beutifully detailed.

The only problem with it, is the lack of PvE. And the PvE that currently exists, consists of exploitation. Once this is fixed, in my eyes, the game will be perfect.

Am I a niche? Yes, I suppose I am.
Nowadays, people who don't cry and whine when they die, and enjoy risky, heart-pumping PvP that has a meaning, in an uninstanced world with no shitty little crappy instanced mini-games like an FPS, are a niche. I'm happy to be part of this niche, and Darkfall suits my playstyle perfectly.

And when you say it looks like puke, I don't understand that... The graphics are visually better than the most popular MMO on the market, and the world is also far more nicely detailed (Before someone mentions it, I know it's rather empty. They cut lots of mobs because of exploitation).

They just need to fix AI exploitation (players getting into walls), and add more mobs and PvE that's worth doing. Then Darkfall will be fucking amazing.

 

before making posts like this; please, at least play darkfall.

can you look at the graphics in a pvp game, and ignore the awful animations of both characters and the background?  i guess, if you're just looking at screenshots.

how're you enjoying not having to harvest because of your super advanced henchmen AI?  how're you enjoying that player housing?  how're you enjoying skilling up those pets you've tamed?  how're you enjoying the revolutionary mob AI that is so advanced that it can simulate actual players?  how's the non-repetitive, challenging, fun & exciting crafting going?  what about those 300+ prestige classes?  which ones of those are you training?  how about those sieges where you can crouchwalk UNDER the fortress/city walls because they are placed so shittily that they don't even touch the ground?   how about those ships with cannons TWICE the range of city towers?  nothing like a tiny ship, bobbing on the ocean, with firepower that dwarfs that of a full-fledged city!!!!!!  how about texting your friend's phone from inside the game (sms and all dontchaknow)?  that revolutionary trade system which you don't have to be logged in to utilize?  you can use the trade system from the darkfall website!  all those super advanced chat system innovations -- you enjoying all that revolutionary technology?  how about invading an enemy city, logging out in their keep, logging back in, running invulnerable from the keep to the enemy bank and whipping out a cannon?  you enjoying that?

 

yup, once they stop the "ai exploitation of players hiding in walls" then this game will be fucking amazing!

 

 

whether this game is truly defined as a "niche" or not, is truly a moot point - the game itself, is horridly implemented, boring IN EXTREMIS grinds, non-communicative dev team, and just broken and/or stupid game mechanics...

I played Darkfall for 2 months, with about 350 xFire in-game hours logged (played longer than that, don't sign in sometimes. So I'm not just talking shit.

And yes, yes. Nice work, you made a list of very old FAQ features (which were Aventurines high expectations whilst developing the game), along with very over-exagerated points (They never said 300+ prestiege classes, more like "12+". And they're still planned for the future I believe), and a few now fixed bugs (can't log in invulnerable anymore, and walking under city walls? Wasn't aware of that, and if so it's probably fixed. I do remember jumping up a corner of a wall and a mountain though, to get into a city. Their clan reported it and it got fixed.)

You also mentioned alot of website features that aren't in YET, yes I said yet. You see how much of the interface is actually in a browser? Well, I expect that soon, the games official site, will be integrated with the game. I imagine you'll be able to manage your clan and city bindstone from work, and talk to people who are in-game through the site. Aswell as access the forums from either in-game, or on an internet browser. There's probably more they'll do with it.

Also, the revolutionary trade system which you don't have to be logged in to utilize that you mentioned, I imagine that this will also have something to do with game / website integration. Also, Aventurine called it revolutionary in their FAQ, but game-website integration, whilst was indeed very revolutionary when they wrote it, probably isn't new to us anymore. However, still a very amazing feature I believe.

Face it, they released the game early. You pay for a beta. It ofcourse has bugs, glitches etc just like any other beta would. And quite a number of the more advanced features are missing. But look, the core of the game is there. And what is there, works very well, and is very fun to play in my opinion. I don't care what anyone else says, I just absolutely love the stuff you're capable of doing in the game, and just the general feel of the game, the gameplay. I love the politics and drama too, brawls between different Alliances, and sometimes internal brawls, with guilds within the alliance falling out with one another. - I act all serious in-game, for role-play sake. But really, I love it.

In my opinion, the PvP, Crafting, and traveling and exploring aspects are 100% spot on. PvE is broken, and the rest isn't implemented yet.

When I have the free time, I'm going to make a blog or something, that has stories of the shit we got up to in DF. It's just so fun, and I love the game. Each to his own.