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All Posts by Ikonoclastia

All Posts by Ikonoclastia

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180 posts found
Originally posted by Dranny
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

It's not sandbox. 

Do you even know what a sandbox is.?

A sandbox is where the developers give you the tools and say go see what rides you can make with these.  A themepark is where the developers give you the tools and say take these tools and use them to help you ride our rides.

A good example of old sandbox play in EvE was what I did with privateers and war decs.  War decs were originally just a method for a player or corporation to attack another player or corporation in high sec, they were used mostly by small corporations to fight other small corporations.   I got frustrated with alliances chasing me off in null sec, so after a bit of forum warrioring I was challenged by an alliance guy, he basically said "if you don't like alliances, declare war on us".  He said it as a joke, I took it seriously.

So I created Privateers, declared war on 3 alliances (the limit), rotating those alliances each week and then started inviting everyone and anyone who wanted to join, spies, bored people, anyone, no rules, no required checks and you can leave and join whenever you liked.  It turned into an alliance, with corporations welcome.  Eventually ending with having up to 100+ wars at any one time.

CCP's sandbox at work right?  We used the tools to create something new, and to fight back against the alliances dominating both high, low and null.  

CCP's response to alliance members crying bitterly - destroy the idea.  Sandbox.  Nope.

If it had been a real sandbox CCP should have stayed out, the alliances could have and should have been required to ADAPT to Privateers or be reduced in strength.  

Sov is also themepark.  There is only one real way to take sov space.  Only one real way to blow up a tower or sov asset.  No free flowing combat, you always need to wait out the timer and show up for predetermined time and place fight.  That's not sandbox.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Betaguy
 

Soon as a few better space sims are released EVE will be closing the doors anyways.  The engine is outdated and cannot keep up. The only ones left will be the ones with a lot of money invested.

here is your problem with this game, EVE have nothing with space sim genre , it is sandbox mmoRPG  focused on players interaction.

It's not sandbox. 

 

To take Sov in EvE there is only one method.  You get a blob, shoot a structure into reinforced, wait 24ish hours, return to structure. If your blob and reinforcements is bigger you win because no enemy turns up, if smaller you don't turn up, if around the same size you shoot each other. If you manage to blob system first you have an advantage in lag. 

One way, no hit and run, no raiding, just structure grinding timers that never end.

Originally posted by Hariken
Originally posted by Beatnik59

What makes you think that those who left EVE already know all this stuff?

I don't get the whole "the game has a steep learning curve" thing...I actually found it rather simple to learn about things like modules, industry and so on.

I find the whole steep learning curve thing by the fanboys really funny too.  That game is losing players like mad. Thats why you always see these types of post here all the time. Newbies are getting sick of the ganking and not playing anymore. I get comeback to Eve emails with deals all the time.

PvP wise it does have quite a steep learning curve.  Each ship has its individual characteristics which you need to learn, not just your own but every other ship in game that will potentially engage you.  Not just the ships either, but the likely fits on the ships you're fighting, which you'll need to guesstimate based on how they're fighting you.  Then there's all the meta-tricks of the latest patch you have to keep up with + a whole bunch of stuff to do with multi-tasking, cap management, transversal, optimal ranges... crapload of things that a newbie will get wiped out by as they learn.

 

Of course most of that stuff is negated by the hotdrops, baitships, gankage factor which no amount of knowledge will save you from if you engage the wrong target.  

Good to hear that CCP's taking sub hits from the horrible management, with any luck they'll fix the game, get rid of the turds that have it crap and I can go back and play it again.

As someone who played EvE from 2003 to 2013 I have to agree with the jump drives problem as well as the coalition / alliance problem.

 

Coalitions like CFC have upwards of 35,000 members.  If you compare that to the smallest countries in the world the CFC has more members than 29 of the smallest countries.  I live in Australia, we have an active army of 25,000 enlisted.  CFC has more than that.

 

In light of that its easy to see how CCP allowing alliances to grow so big puts a huge damper on the game when the average alliance is around 1 to 5 thousand people.  The only way to respond to that is to form your own mega-coalitions.

 

When you introduce jump drives the difficulties in regards to moving, supplying those coalitions is drastically reduced and this leads to more of a requirement to have large coalition blocks form because there is a requirement to have a blue network of systems for jumping your mega fleet around to defend and defeat other fast moving mega-fleets.

Add in the deeply flawed Sov system, a system which requires any attacker to show up 24 hours after attacking a structure to face the full force of a mega-coalition and you have no scope for smaller entities to inflict damage or raid the larger entities.  

The game is currently a massive joke and likely will be for many years to come.

 

 

Originally posted by Prokaryotik

I understand where you're coming from, I truly do. But you have to realize that the world of New Eden that CCP has created is supposed to be an emulation of a completely dog eat dog society where almost anything can happen. For all intents and purposes you should be happy there are even Hi-sec areas in my opinion.

I have played this game on and off here and there for some time and I am by no means an expert in any way shape or form. But what I absolutely love about this game is that it truly is a vitrual world: one server, go anywhere, do anything. It is trying to portray a futuristic society in space where there is no government. Just those who may or may not be your friends.

I understand you have to pay a subscription, I understand that you've put a lot of time and effort into the game, but this is something that they make you very well aware of and is something that makes the experience something that is truly unique. That fear of griefing, that fear of losing everything. But that's what makes it awesome, the fact that can actually happen, anytime, anywhere, and if you can't handle that then this game isn't for you. Can't you guys imagine that if a world actually did exist like New Eden in space there would be those griefers, those pirates, those scammers? That's what our world is like believe it or not. Just most of us don't see it as we live in a priveleged society where we play video games all day... It's sick but its an accurate portrayal of what that society would be like (I think at least). So CCP, please don't change it. Don't corrupt this immaculate world of no holds barred, deception, profiteering, piracy, backstabbing.. ugh I could go on.

I don't recommend people play because of the metagame, because of the bias CCP shows towards certain elements of the game, because of the inability to post on the forums due to the censorship of 'special' ISD associated with alliances / corporations in game and because of CCP's inability to fix its tragically broken sovereign system, ease and low cost of suicide ganking against very costly targets and CCP's inability to prevent out of game harassment by players in game.  

Another issue which is worth noting are the developer run events which disproportionately favour certain alliances with massive drops worth hundreds of billions of isk, many of which have current and former devs as leaders or high ranking officers.  

 

Due to the above EvE is not worth paying money for as its far to skewed in favour of certain entities in game.  The gameplay itself, were it properly managed is a lot of fun, which is why I stuck with it for 11 years.

Infinity Ziona

Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Griefing  

 

stopped reading here

 

Not every online game needs to be carebear heaven with artificial barriers and gamey safemode mechanics. Some people prefer sandbox gameplay. Get over it.

 

Just pick one of the shovelware casual themeparks that protect you from any meaningful or remotely interesting multiplayer interaction and be happy with it.

 

Bit of a late reply but if you Googled my in game characters name "Infinity Ziona" you'll find my character was what most people referred to as a "griefer".

 

I'm in the EvE wiki having created the Privateers alliance, a war deccing corporation.  I played for 10 years, the majority of that time as a high sec war deccer killing carebears for extortionate purposes, then branched out to attempting to extort null sec alliances and also dabbled in piracy.

 

I had no issues with non-consentual pvp, non-consensual pvp is the reason I played for so long.  The issue is at some point CCP lost their ability to distinguish between non-consensual pvp and harassment.  

 

Nobody should be allowed to follow a single player, using a disposable alt you can't hurt (just reships and comes back) and a ship with no fittings other then a covert ops cloak and possibly a cyno, with the express purpose of verbally harassing that person.  I put up with this because I thought screw it, don't let the moron ruin your gameplay but the final straw was CCP ignoring the harassment and then warning me for using the F word after this person harassing me reported me.  The report obviously just another form of their harassment.  The F word and much much worse, I'm talking sick perverted stuff that should get people insta-banned in Jita and Amarr being ignored,  is extremely common in EvE.

 

Oh my, this is too priceless.  You spent 10 years hunting down the weak and helpless, harassing players with your emergent game play, attacking pretty much only those who couldn't fight back, and as soon as one of them retaliates by following you around and calling you bad names, you fold under the pressure?  

When I think of all the people who likely found themselves station spinning because of you and your ilk, (just because you had no problem with non-consensual PVP doesn't mean they didn't) it is only fitting that when the time came, you couldn't figure out a way to handle it yourself, (er, there is a block feature, right?)

Yes, there is justice in the universe after all, I can only imagine how the folks at CCP viewed your harassment complaint, I'm sure they were all thinking, "HTFU" noob. 

You knew the score, cause enough grief in EVE and someone is going to try to take you down.  Too bad if you don't think the tactics they employed were fair.  All's fair in love and EVE, we all know and accept that.

Thanks for this reply, you made my day.

 

 

EvE is both a PvP game and a PvE game.  Many claim its a PvP game only but I disagree with that idea.  One of the things about EvE is apart from morons who suicide gank its entirely possible to avoid PvP by not creating or joining a PvE corporation or even better, creating a PvP wing foryour PvE corporation.  Additionally you can set aside a small proportion of income using tax for rainy days when you are war decced.

One of the main reasons corporations get war decced is they're purely PvE and have created a PvE only corporation with no defence or offence.

While I war decced these types of corporations I always offered them a reasonable fee between 100 million to 1 billion.  I also offered new players immunity from the war for 5 million isk and those newbies who declined I would exempt from the war after they were killed twice.  Additionally my rule was if one of the members killed me, I immediately retracted the war.  At the end of every war, I'd select people who showed courage and skill and contract them a few billion worth of ships as a reward.

I really liked EVE, prior to the new generation of developers who have ruined it and so had no desire to hurt others gameplay which is why I had those limitations.  

It wasn't a matter of not being able to handle it.  I did for 4 months.  At the time we had up to 8 afk cyno fitted ships around the region of null we were operating in.  Only 1 followed me around and verbally harassed, including reporting me for minor infractions as another form of harassment.  The issue was CCP's inability to enforce its own rules (the rules state you may not follow a player and harass them for extended periods of time) and its selective use of its rules to punish me for using the F word in local while ignoring the above serious breach of the EULA.

 

Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Griefing  

 

 

 

 

stopped reading here

 

Not every online game needs to be carebear heaven with artificial barriers and gamey safemode mechanics. Some people prefer sandbox gameplay. Get over it.

 

Just pick one of the shovelware casual themeparks that protect you from any meaningful or remotely interesting multiplayer interaction and be happy with it.

 

Bit of a late reply but if you Googled my in game characters name "Infinity Ziona" you'll find my character was what most people referred to as a "griefer".

 

I'm in the EvE wiki having created the Privateers alliance, a war deccing corporation.  I played for 10 years, the majority of that time as a high sec war deccer killing carebears for extortionate purposes, then branched out to attempting to extort null sec alliances and also dabbled in piracy.

 

I had no issues with non-consentual pvp, non-consensual pvp is the reason I played for so long.  The issue is at some point CCP lost their ability to distinguish between non-consensual pvp and harassment.  

 

Nobody should be allowed to follow a single player, using a disposable alt you can't hurt (just reships and comes back) and a ship with no fittings other then a covert ops cloak and possibly a cyno, with the express purpose of verbally harassing that person.  I put up with this because I thought screw it, don't let the moron ruin your gameplay but the final straw was CCP ignoring the harassment and then warning me for using the F word after this person harassing me reported me.  The report obviously just another form of their harassment.  The F word and much much worse, I'm talking sick perverted stuff that should get people insta-banned in Jita and Amarr being ignored,  is extremely common in EvE.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by MauriceMacouille

That´s a lot of words to say nothing. Don't you study hard science? I thought that led to a hatred of verbosity, seems it´s not the case. And I was only talking about the very basic LENR stuff, you know, the one ignoramuses like me can read about, nickel and hydrogen. But then again, you will say it's pseudo-science until there's a commercial working reactor. Remember when the sun revolved around the earth?

Note that your version of being successful is not the one Malcanis and his buddy were referring to. I was responding to them.

EQ WoW etc nobody left those games because of griefing, which is mostly impossible in themepark MMOs, as it´s preemptively hardcoded against. Why? because devs know that online sociopaths will exploit every opportunity to make other people mad. Also, griefing in World of Tanks? how many hours of time do you lose when you get griefed in World of Tanks? exactly 0. In EvE? you could lose years of asset building in a single scam relying on the gullibility of your RL self, not on some psychological trait of your ingame character: this is another point. It´s not gameplay driven, and has no place in a videogame in which you cannot assess the other player's behavior, facial expressions, etc

Griefers, regardless of game, grief because they get a kick out of making someone mad. EvE is a haven for them because in this game, Schadenfreude-driven actions are not considered as such.

 

The only people who should play EvE are sadists and masochists, or those who have RL pals already playing it, so they can be shielded from the toxicity of this community.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon_catalyzed_fusion basic stuff really, nothing really difficult in there (no MHD, no mention of low, high and advanced modes, etc,etc). I linked you to wikipedia to give you more simple version of it, if you are curious google is your friend here. As for what I am studying to do (working on master's, won't get quite there until phd)... well:

(tokamaks, that above is the first trial run of K-star).

As for griefing in WoW (and themepark games in general):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ6cCwsgGO4&list=PL0j3zibAlFDtNME8VT19rzylnYndxx71G

That series deals with "drama" in WoW and has quite allot of cases of people getting run out of the game and WoW isn't a singular case amongst themeparks because believe it or not EVE-Online is a sandbox that gives the already existing dicks , which exist in any game, space to do their dicking more blatantly rather than insidiously like in more strictly policed games.

Nope, EVE gives you the room to do so but it is not more normal than any other MMO, the only true difference between EVE and something like WoW is the one I mentioned above ( griefers can grief as long as they do so within mechanics whereas in WoW the mechanics are more limited but you can still lose months of work due to a shit guild master that decides all the guild's stuff is his). This coupled with dicks liking each other's company results in them being more blatant than in other MMOs where they need to be under the radar to be efficient. The OP though shows that EVE does self-police quite efficiently... I mean one of his victims took it upon themselves to counter grief the OP until he ended up here.

Same can be said of any MMO or online community that has been around long enough. They all have nuclei of dicks ( though they do not class as sociopaths/sadists no more than their victims class as masochists... unless they do it repeatedly ) and in EVE, being closer to the sandbox ideal, those dicks have the right to be arses just as much as you have the right to come here and bitch about them (freedom and all that jazz). By the same token the victims of griefing can counter grief and fight back which a game like WoW does not let you do (if you do so I believe you will get banned as well as the dude that griefed you initially).

 

 

You're missing one crucial point.  EvE doesn't give you the 'freedom' to do what was done to me.  Its explicitly stated in the EULA and TOS that you cannot harass a player with the intention to cause that players game play to suffer.

The definition of harassment is of course important.  While people have tried to paint my in game play as harassment its clearly within the rules of the game whereas the harassment of my character is clearly outside of the allowed conduct.  

Regardless of whether you believe personally my in game conduct is deserving of their in game conduct its clearly against the rules of the game and as such should be punishable.  If the conduct is now acceptable then the rules of the game should be changed however they have not been so your position is really not relevant.

 

No it isn't. It is harassment when they, without previous war dec, camp you in a station for weeks, months at a time, suicide gank you regardless of your location or intent, deny you the ability to sell on the market, etc,etc,etc,etc, them following you around and throwing insults is not worse or better than what you likely did to them and btw just so you know: You can pay in-game isk to find out who's alts those are and take your own, EULA and TOS abiding, revenge by doing everything you can to make the dude(s) that pissed you off's life in-game a Hell without going the extra mile towards harassment (for example AFK cloaking in their 0.0 system even when they are not at war with you is perfectly EULA complaint and if you say nothing and just follow them around, perhaps even spook them when they are PVE-ing without ganking you are still within the rules of the game and CCP will not ban you).

Learn the game and learn how to make the best of the freedom you are given (which is no more or less than that of everyone else). Be cool, be calm, be methodical and bide your time because blowing up like teenager at being called names is how junior high-school bullies got you to do something so they could tell on you to get your credibility low so they could properly bully you (hint: like it happened in that thread).

 

I suggest you read the EULA.

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by MauriceMacouille

That´s a lot of words to say nothing. Don't you study hard science? I thought that led to a hatred of verbosity, seems it´s not the case. And I was only talking about the very basic LENR stuff, you know, the one ignoramuses like me can read about, nickel and hydrogen. But then again, you will say it's pseudo-science until there's a commercial working reactor. Remember when the sun revolved around the earth?

Note that your version of being successful is not the one Malcanis and his buddy were referring to. I was responding to them.

EQ WoW etc nobody left those games because of griefing, which is mostly impossible in themepark MMOs, as it´s preemptively hardcoded against. Why? because devs know that online sociopaths will exploit every opportunity to make other people mad. Also, griefing in World of Tanks? how many hours of time do you lose when you get griefed in World of Tanks? exactly 0. In EvE? you could lose years of asset building in a single scam relying on the gullibility of your RL self, not on some psychological trait of your ingame character: this is another point. It´s not gameplay driven, and has no place in a videogame in which you cannot assess the other player's behavior, facial expressions, etc

Griefers, regardless of game, grief because they get a kick out of making someone mad. EvE is a haven for them because in this game, Schadenfreude-driven actions are not considered as such.

 

The only people who should play EvE are sadists and masochists, or those who have RL pals already playing it, so they can be shielded from the toxicity of this community.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon_catalyzed_fusion basic stuff really, nothing really difficult in there (no MHD, no mention of low, high and advanced modes, etc,etc). I linked you to wikipedia to give you more simple version of it, if you are curious google is your friend here. As for what I am studying to do (working on master's, won't get quite there until phd)... well:

(tokamaks, that above is the first trial run of K-star).

As for griefing in WoW (and themepark games in general):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ6cCwsgGO4&list=PL0j3zibAlFDtNME8VT19rzylnYndxx71G

That series deals with "drama" in WoW and has quite allot of cases of people getting run out of the game and WoW isn't a singular case amongst themeparks because believe it or not EVE-Online is a sandbox that gives the already existing dicks , which exist in any game, space to do their dicking more blatantly rather than insidiously like in more strictly policed games.

Nope, EVE gives you the room to do so but it is not more normal than any other MMO, the only true difference between EVE and something like WoW is the one I mentioned above ( griefers can grief as long as they do so within mechanics whereas in WoW the mechanics are more limited but you can still lose months of work due to a shit guild master that decides all the guild's stuff is his). This coupled with dicks liking each other's company results in them being more blatant than in other MMOs where they need to be under the radar to be efficient. The OP though shows that EVE does self-police quite efficiently... I mean one of his victims took it upon themselves to counter grief the OP until he ended up here.

Same can be said of any MMO or online community that has been around long enough. They all have nuclei of dicks ( though they do not class as sociopaths/sadists no more than their victims class as masochists... unless they do it repeatedly ) and in EVE, being closer to the sandbox ideal, those dicks have the right to be arses just as much as you have the right to come here and bitch about them (freedom and all that jazz). By the same token the victims of griefing can counter grief and fight back which a game like WoW does not let you do (if you do so I believe you will get banned as well as the dude that griefed you initially).

 

 

You're missing one crucial point.  EvE doesn't give you the 'freedom' to do what was done to me.  Its explicitly stated in the EULA and TOS that you cannot harass a player with the intention to cause that players game play to suffer.

The definition of harassment is of course important.  While people have tried to paint my in game play as harassment its clearly within the rules of the game whereas the harassment of my character is clearly outside of the allowed conduct.  

Regardless of whether you believe personally my in game conduct is deserving of their in game conduct its clearly against the rules of the game and as such should be punishable.  If the conduct is now acceptable then the rules of the game should be changed however they have not been so your position is really not relevant.

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by uplink4242

I was actually going to write a proper reply to your post, but then I noticed this thread derived into a sea of bullshit accusations and factless evidence. It's a shame most people here have no idea about the history of  trolling and baseless posts you've written in the official boards. 

 

I am well aware of it actually... hence why I am laughing my ass off at IK trying to rationalize him abusing a group of players, with good reasons people!, while trying to be a victim himself. Surprising amount of self-servicing there to be honest but even more surprising is the amount of people jumping onto his bandwagon either trying to dodge them getting made a fool of in-game because they did not apply rudimentary logic coupled with the game's unspoken rules or are just in it to stir drama like oh so many gaming "news" sites.

Since when is a war against an alliance considered abusing players?  If you want to expand on that then anyone going into another persons sovereign space to kill them is abusing players?  I guess any sovereignty war then is abuse since it's very much what I did to Tribal.  

No clearly you seem intent on trying to justify creating alts to follow one player around for 4 months verbally abusing by calling them a pedophile and inferring they watch child porn by very wrongly comparing that behavior to normal pvp play.  

Originally posted by uplink4242

I was actually going to write a proper reply to your post, but then I noticed this thread derived into a sea of bullshit accusations and factless evidence. It's a shame most people here have no idea about the history of  trolling and baseless posts you've written in the official boards. 

 

Your post alledges"bullshit" and "factless evidence" but you don't actually specify any.  I'd be interested to know what specifically I have said that is "bullshit" and "factless evidence".  

Do you deny that the forums are being moderated in a biased fashion?

Do you deny that a number of current and former developers are part of Goonswarm?

Do you deny that the requirement for any smaller entity to turn up 24 hours after an attack to be met by a % of the 40,000 CFC to finish off an attack isn't beneficial to the 40,000 CFC members?

Do you deny that the only permanent member of the CSM is a Goon, that the soveriegnty system wasn't at least partially designed by a former EvE player, turned developer, turned PL leader?

Do you deny that CCP staged an event which directly dropped 800 billion isk worth of extremely rare monocles to that same ex-Dev now leader of PL?

Do you deny that same ex-player, turned dev, turned PL leader is not and has not been the chairperson of the CSM.

Do you deny that the voting process for CSM means the CFC and Goons can vote in as many members of the CFC / Goons as they want.

Do you deny that petitions regarding my harassment were never acted upon.  I can't tell you if it was either because GM's refuse to actually tell you if anything was done.  All I know is that person is still in game.

Do you deny that any post that the forum trolls and abusers dont' like is filled with hate, spam and trolling until the ISD locks it rather than take care of the trolls, haters and spammers??

There is a lot more you could deny but the truth is the truth and mere denials don't change that.

 

Originally posted by Vexus_X

So, basically the point is that EVE is awesome and bad-ass and 1 in 100,000 people get their lives ruined by other players in the game?

 

Hell, WoW ruined more lives than that without players even getting involved!

 

EVE is the Saint's MMO.

No.  The point is that if you're looking for a game to play and you're considering playing EvE that you need to be aware that:

* certain special players who have RL connections to CCP, ISD (forum moderators), GM's, CSM (player representatives who only represent a small group of players) will be immune from any actions against your player even when those actions are in breach of the EULA and TOS and extend out of game.

* certain players can choose to continuously and methodically 'grief' you and you will have no recourse other than to not log on and play.

* There is no forum moderation and as such you will be unable to use the forums without being constantly trolled, harassed and abused by other forum users.  If you complain your complaints will be ignored and the ISD will start a campaign of locking every thread you make by using random EULA / TOS violations while ignoring hundreds of similiar EULA / TOS violations in those threads made against you.

* The huge fleet battles that CCP pretend happen on a regular basis don't actually happen.  100% of conquerable space is conquered by two massive coalitions, one of which is Goonswarm or what many people call Devswarm for obvious reasons.

* If you do manage to get into an alliance without being tricked into a 5 second you vs 100+ players ganking you and its not Devswarm or its coalition CFC then your fleet battles will consist of 4000 Devswarm vs 2000 or less of you being royally screwed in 1 second per frame slideshow that turns 2 hours of one sided PvP into 8 or more hours of 1 sided PvP.  

If you do manage to beat Devswarm, the slowed down system mechanics in which you are fighting will allow them to bring 4000 more players to ensure your victory is very short lived since outside of the time dilation ships and pilots will be able to move 10's of jumps in the time it takes for you to lock and shoot a single ship.

* You'll be facing a coalition of around 40,000 players or more.  To put that in perspective, my country Australia has an active army of 20,000 people.  If CFC and Goons were a country, they would rank 30th on the list of the worlds smaller countries.   

* If you join an event in game you'll most likely be fed to very high SP players by the developers leading that event.  

* You'll have to try to deal trying to fight players who are developers or friends of developers.

* You'll have to deal with events in which the biggest most poweful alliances in the game use alts that cannot be tracked or have revenge taken against them insta killing you whenever they like even in the most safe newbie areas of the game without any recourse.

 

Originally posted by Mr.SeriousGuy
spread sheet the game meets point and click interface with global pvp what could go wrong ... this is the game that people that play football manager 2014 play when they want something "more intense" so you know its safe for elderly and people with heart conditions . hand eye coordination means nothing its all micro managing of assets and time .

Yeah I don't really get the spreadsheet analogy.  There is quite a of lot of player skill required in small scale EvE pvp.  It is more based on knowledge of the game mechanics rather than quick reflexes but at the same time you do have to do a lot of micromanaging in combat that is similiar to what you would find in World of Warcraft type PvP.

 

Take this for example.

Blaster Proteus (Warrior) with 120k EHP buffer (health bar), 700 dps (dps), webs (snares), range issues (kiting, preventing kiting), scrambles (stuns / roots), capacitor (mana / stamina), nuets, ecm (special attacks).

Just like a good pvp'r in World of Warcraft is the one that can integrate all of that into their pvp while adjusting to the dynamic nature of battle, one has to do the same in EvE PvP.

For large fleet battles, which is where CCP pushes all its funds and energy, yeah its basically spreadsheets but for actual real pvp in smaller battles, they're very similiar.

Originally posted by hfztt
Originally posted by MauriceMacouille


EvE wasn´t always that way. Griefers started breeding wildly around 2008.

Not true. Griefing has been widespread in EVE since day 0.

What has changed is that griefing as a lifestyle in EVE is much more accepted, which means that it is now something you brag about, where earlier you would do it on an alt and certainly not tell anyone but your most trusted corpmates about it.

It has gone from being gameplay wise acceptable to also being socially acceptable.

That is the great change that came with the fall of BoB's e-honor empire and the rise of Goon'ism.

Yeah this is true.  Griefing (screw my teacher who told me to put an i before e except after c, its really messed with my spelling) has been around since day 0.

But we also had a CCP who cared about keeping every player they could get.  It was a CCP that was invested in their game, not their friendships with certain players theyve made out of game within Goonswarm, the CSM and ISD.

When CCP made changes to the game that imbalanced ships, such that mining and missioning ships could be alpha'd down in one shot they beefed up Concord or fixed those issues.  When players found holes in the code they banned those players for exploting (Zombie, an entire corporation of players was banned for such an exploit).  

But as CCP's playerbase grew, as devs left and other devs from inside the playerbase were recruited, likely more to do with out of game friendships rather than development skill, the devs became less and less likely to take action.  Exploits and imbalanced mechanics which were beneficial to favoured in game entities were allowed to stay in and be exploited and only then patched out and declared bannable after being farmed for years (tech moons as an example).

We're at a stage now that Goonswarm, despite having abused timers for years, and having almost taken over the entire player claimable areas, is still allowed to abuse those timers.  Despite the timer issue killing the primary reason to play EVE, big space battles of thousands of players on each side, the timer issue has been declared 'working fine and we're not intending to change anything in the immediate future".  

The rot starts within CCP, because CCP has allowed itself to become mired in external RL friendships, with both Goonswarm, PL, the griefers, the CSM, CCP itself and the ISD not being able to be independent of the other groups.   

Originally posted by nicarift
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia

Griefing has been around since early computer based gaming has been around.  The intention of the griefer is to cause annoyance, loss, or unpleasantness for the victim.  In extreme cases griefing causes people to quit playing a game as their ability to enjoy the game is curtailed.  In such instances its counter productive for the games company to allow such activity in its game.  It loses subscriptions, which causes loss of revenue.  Griefing also causes damage to the reputation of the company and the game that company runs.

 

Not so for EvE Online.  CCP Games actively support and encourage player griefing against its 'carebear' and 'newbie' population.  When Goonswarm held its Burn Jita event, an event designed to bypass the usual 24 hours of notice in high sec wars, by taking an armada of ships into high sec's Jita trade system and suicide killing any and every player they could, CCP not only did nothing, they actively encouraged it.

 

When Goonswarms leader stood up and belittled, humiliated, shared private correspondence and encouraged a player to commit suicide at CCP's fanfest, both the audience and developers who were presence laughed along with him.  Was he permbanned, no.  

 

Recently a coalition (NC Dot) invited a person whom they knew was recovering from cancer to join their coalition.  They invited him to put all this stuff into a carrier and provided him with a cynosaural jump point into their null sec space.  They then proceeded to blow everything he had up and pod him.  A guy with cancer? This is the sort of depravity that should never exist in any game.  What did CCP do? Nothing.  

 

In the last few weeks the Erotica1fiasco, in which a player and his wife were victimised, harassed and had a disability mocked caused CCP to reevaluate its stance on griefing.  Their response.  Well it was actually nothing and meant nothing. They reserved the right to decide when someone has crossed the line between "normal" griefing and "naughty" griefing. Erotica1 was banned however only after 6 weeks and huge community outcry, including a 300 page threadnaught, that might have caused CCP to get some bad press.

And of course Erotica1 is back with a new alt, running the exact same scam with the same bonus rooms that led to the outcry.

 

Do the developers simply turn a blind eye to this conduct or are they complicit in it?  A recent event led by the developers themselves involved inviting a large number of "carebears" from highsec into null sec (the main area set aside for PvP) and into the welcoming arms of a waiting gate camp (basically EvE's main form of PvP - Spawncamping).  Mistake? Highly unlikely.  It seems more than likely that they leaked the location of this event to the alliance in question with the express purpose of feeding their players to the waiting alliance.

 

That the developers and certain players in the game are linked by more than a customer / developer relationship was demonstrated when the developers staged an event in the home system of one of the most powerful alliances in the game.  The leader of whom is an ex-CCP developer themselves.  On this occasion the developers dropped 800 billion isk worth of items exclusively to this player entity.

 

Which brings me to my own experience with griefing and developer apathy.  In early February I decided to help a group of players set up a non-kill on sight area in Stain null sec.  At this same time a player or players created 3 alt accounts, sent those alts out to Stain where they proceeded to follow me from system to system, verbally abusing me in local for hours at a time.  I was called a pedophile and accused of watching child pornography as well as being subjected to constant foul language.  This went on non-stop for 4 months.

 

I managed to get the player or players in question to admit they were specifically targeting me for harassment and petitioned them.  Even though I supplied the GM's with screenshots in which the player states they are specifically targeting me for harassment no action was taken against those players. Given the characters in question were using cloaks which prevents any retaliation I was not able to take any in game action against them. 

 

I then went to the forums and posted about this issue.  The forum post I created was trolled incessantly, I was insulted, abused, belittled and villified for over 23 pages and then my thread locked by mods for 'breaching a rule of discussing GM actions' while the people who had spent hours of their time harassing and mocking my situation received no punishment at all.

 

I unsubscribed my accounts and posted a message to CCP in the Out of Pod Experience subforum regarding the lack of moderation and the lack of support dealing with my harassment and that thread was also subjected to trolling, spam, and anti-social posts which breached almost every rule of the forums.  Yet no action was taken against those players.

 

So if you're an aweful person, you like to cause other players to feel bad, you like to cause pain to people who have cancer, you enjoy trolling, you enjoy making fun of people with disabilities, you like being led into a traps by developers, you're okay with developer favoritism, you enjoy flying around in space with corporations that have names like "Creampie Carpet Munchers" and your a general asshat then EvE online is likely for you.

For normal people, I'd suggest a different game.

 

Infinity Ziona

 

 

 

 

Lets see where you got the information from.

I made a post after that post linking irrefutable evidence of what I said.  I'm not going to link it again.

I would also like to respond to the people who seek to discredit me as an "Exaggerator, troll etc".

I have played EvE from April 2003 to just recently, 11 years of EvE Online.  This means I have a very good knowledge of the game, its politics, and how it has changed from a great game and great community to a very poor game, with very broken mechanics and a very poor community that experiences no moderation at all other than against those people who speak out against the state of the game.

The reason; a core clique of trolls and abusers dislike me is simply because I am not afraid to speak out.  I don't merely offer opinions, I test and present factual results.  

When the alliances dared me to war dec them in EVE, I created the Privateers, and we declared war on almost every alliance in game.  The alliances screamed and cried and railed against us and we were nerfed.  

When Baltec and co claimed that high sec was too easy and rich and that null sec was poor and ignored I took a ship out to null sec, into Baltecs alliances space, and by running sites and screenshotting my drops I showed that one could make multiple billions of isk solo in null, thousands of times more than one could make in high sec in the same period.  

When NC. griefed a guy with cancer, I spoke out against them very strongly.  When the CSM votes, I make posts about how theres a permanent Goon on the CSM, how the vote is so imbalanced its pointless to even vote, how 10 people all from Goons and the big alliances are allowed to vote on game changing mechanics (No Cov Ops Cloak on the Nestor for example) And so on and so on.

The alliances, ISD, CSM and CPP don't like criticism, they don't like people disagreeing with their all knowledgable clique and so I was ostracized, every post on the boards I made was filled with pages upon pages of unmoderated personal attacks and trolling.

In my opinion, the person harassing me in game was very likely one of the ISD, CSM, or perhaps even worse.  At the least the inaction by CCP was a outright confirmation that when it comes to people who speak out against CCP's nepotistic clique ridden game, out of game harassment is ignored.

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Zarbyte
Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

None is forced to play some game.

 

 

 

EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

 

As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

 

Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

The only thing certain about you is that you dodge responsibility for your actions ( "it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players."  ever think you may have royally pissed someone off doing that? and them coming after you for revenge believe it or not is well within the scope of the game, harassment goes to them coming to your house and kicking your shit in or stalking you in real life not in-game, this shit happens in WoW and other MMOs as well the only difference is EVE is a big fat target because it has so many "horror" stories told by "innocent" people who then neglect to say: well our community is also one that donate heavily whenever a charity fundraiser is put on and said fundraiser is both player and CCP policed, you'd not only get your toon banned but their alts lollerstomped by groups of people until you quit the game if you tried to scam a fundraiser, that all those victims you mentioned, you not included of course because you are as much a victim in this as erotica is, maybe even more so because no CSM is nailing you to the cross and your victims aren't agreeing that you were in the right, got in-game support from people but you delightfully forget to mention that and focus on the negative to get your own way ).

 

Short answer: If you are a douche people will be a douche to you and trust me they will find the best ways to piss you off if you did it to them so stop crying to anyone that can hear you and be at least half the man you physically are because words do not fucking matter, actions do and those "harassers" never did anything beyond following you around which is allot less than what you did to others.

 

Once again my actions were not bannable. The actions of the person who harassed me were. If a player cannot deal with normal gameplay and takes it so personally they sub 3 alt accounts for the purposes of implementing a months long campaign of harassment in breach of the TOS and EULA then they should have action taken against those accounts.

There is no place in game or on the forums for stalking or harassment. CCPs words not mine. Read the EULA and TOS. It sounds like your defense of this persons weird fixation which may have been caused by my legitimate and within the rules actions in game might even go as far as out of game actions against a player (assault etc).

 

 

Yeah...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/harass

Now have fun justifying your point of view when both you and him/them are within the definitions... well within TOS...trololol... both of your are equally in or equally outside it, targeting people makes no point because him/they created a hostile environment for you just as you did for him/them in the past. Take your lumps, learn to block and hopefully stop using arguments like "If you think I am wrong you think pedophilia is funny, do you think that is ok?" .

Let's look at my in game actions versus the person who harassed me.

 

My Victim Tribal Band - a deep null sec alliance with thousands of players. 

Me, a single player in a very expensive ship and pod.

 

The "Griefing" - I cloaked in their system and killed players over a month long period. I had originally gone down there to see if I could dock so I could make some isk as I had just returned to EvE after a year or so away from the game. I had been attacked by their members for no reason other than that I had intruded on their space. 

My methods - After being aggressed and finding out that I was not allowed to dock I asked for blue status so I could dock. It was denied. I then told them if they refused to let me dock I would start killing them, primarily because they had tried to kill me.

I then began killing them. Each time in a system filled with their allies. Each time decloaking and exposing myself to boat violencing. While I was AFK cloaking that was entirely due to the inability to log off in station or AFK in station. You do not want to be logging off in war because that provides critical intel regarding when you are active making hot drop traps much more likely.

Over the course of a month I killed 32 ships / pods. In turn was hot dropped once and lost another ship in a trap once. I sacrificed two pods of 1.8 billion isk rather than jump 60 jumps back in which it was highly unlikely I wouldn't hit a bubble and die anyway.

 

Vs

 

My griefer - 3 brand new alts in noob ships value zero isk.

The reason - none provided

Time period - indefinite, when I quit going on 4 months

Method - perma cloaked, verbal harassment, never open to boat violencing

 

Clearly the main difference is I was playing within the game rules, I had a valid reason, I provided an 'out', I exposed myself regularly to PvP and retaliation, I was putting multiple billions of isk on the line (faction fit T3, full head of high grade implants), I was using my main (reputation and consequences in the future).

 

To try to compare the two is infantile and ignores that my actions were within the game rules while the others actions were harassment and bannable.

Edit: I'll also point out that one of the things that separates me from a greifer is that during the war with Tribal I identified several noobie players in who were operating in the area and after killing them once or twice I sent them a mail telling them that they were free to operate in the area and would no longer be attacked.  I did that because I recognize that repeat killing of noobs is not beneficial to me or the game and my primary motivation is to have fun, not make people unhappy and quit.  That's the very definition of a good player, one that CCP should wish to keep, not a greifer, who they should wish to get rid of.

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Zarbyte
Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

None is forced to play some game.

 

 

 

EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

 

As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

 

Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

The only thing certain about you is that you dodge responsibility for your actions ( "it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players."  ever think you may have royally pissed someone off doing that? and them coming after you for revenge believe it or not is well within the scope of the game, harassment goes to them coming to your house and kicking your shit in or stalking you in real life not in-game, this shit happens in WoW and other MMOs as well the only difference is EVE is a big fat target because it has so many "horror" stories told by "innocent" people who then neglect to say: well our community is also one that donate heavily whenever a charity fundraiser is put on and said fundraiser is both player and CCP policed, you'd not only get your toon banned but their alts lollerstomped by groups of people until you quit the game if you tried to scam a fundraiser, that all those victims you mentioned, you not included of course because you are as much a victim in this as erotica is, maybe even more so because no CSM is nailing you to the cross and your victims aren't agreeing that you were in the right, got in-game support from people but you delightfully forget to mention that and focus on the negative to get your own way ).

 

Short answer: If you are a douche people will be a douche to you and trust me they will find the best ways to piss you off if you did it to them so stop crying to anyone that can hear you and be at least half the man you physically are because words do not fucking matter, actions do and those "harassers" never did anything beyond following you around which is allot less than what you did to others.

 

Once again my actions were not bannable. The actions of the person who harassed me were. If a player cannot deal with normal gameplay and takes it so personally they sub 3 alt accounts for the purposes of implementing a months long campaign of harassment in breach of the TOS and EULA then they should have action taken against those accounts.

There is no place in game or on the forums for stalking or harassment. CCPs words not mine. Read the EULA and TOS. It sounds like your defense of this persons weird fixation which may have been caused by my legitimate and within the rules actions in game might even go as far as out of game actions against a player (assault etc).

 

 

Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
Originally posted by Zarbyte
Eve is a sandbox game, dominated almost entirely by its players. This is the way of this genre of MMO.

yes ,it is players driven game ... Eve is NO LIMITATION game if cant deal with it  just go play something else ... 

I am not understanding why OP crying around ? it is just game ,but  very good game !  He should separate RL from games.

None is forced to play some game.

 

 

 

EvE is not a "no limitations" game.  CCP sets clear limits in its EULA.  Read it and you'll see that its prohibited to target one player and harass them.  I'm not talking about chasing someone and killing them, popping a player at a gate, declaring war on a players corporation or scamming a player of their isk.  I'm talking about creating 3 alts with the express purpose of following that player around for months on end harassing and abusing them.  That's a clearly defined breach of conduct.

You can have a personal opinion about whether it should be allowed or not.  That opinion does not change the terms of EULA.  

Certain people in this thread are claiming that what I have said in my OP is false, or lies, or whatever.  However the facts are:

A player, who is a member of the EvE Online community displayed private correspondence of a sensitive nature in a public forum in front of developerss of EvE Online, attempted to incite other players into mocking and harassing a reportedly suicidal player.  Was not severely punished by CCP for that.   http://kotaku.com/5896611/suicidal-player-laughed-at-then-trolled-at-eve-online-gathering

A player who had spent the last 2 years fighting cancer, is conned into joining an alliance and moving all his stuff out by his pretend friends only to be ganked.  Nothing was done to those players, in fact that belittled and harassed and even suggested to the guy that "they did him a favor" and that "he shouldn't be playing EvE if he has cancer". Link

Devs lured players out to Goonswarm / CFC space to feed newbie and carebear kills to Razor - Link

Devs drop hundreds of billions of isk, the equivalent of thousands of RL dollars in plex to PL in their home system of Ammamake (check the killboard links in the forum post), an alliance headed by a former EvE developer - Link

Now you can come here and lie and say this stuff is not happening but it is happening.  I have proof and you have pretty much denials in the face of the facts.  

Your first link has already been discussed and what consequences occurred and I doubt the suicidal player cared that much after the apology and compensation was issued by the big bad Mittani (if memory serves he also paid the player some isk to compensate him for whatever damages in-game his, the Mittani's, stupidity had caused) . Funny how Mittens, the biggest shit eater in EVE, can admit fault but you cannot (hint: people on the EVE forums nailed you to the cross for complaining at being stalked when you yourself have done the same thing exploiting cloaking mechanics to pretty much blockade mining and PVE in 0.0 systems and I've seen you can be quite abusive when you cannot get your way so I can only imagine what type of sadist you were in your element).

Your second link can be summed up as: Shit happens regardless who you are in EVE be it a roided up biker with issues being called certain names or a cancer survivor. The latter at least didn't seem to care as much.

Third link is what happens when you do not bring your own FCs... christ do I really need to point out what happened to Polaris fleets the first few times (hint: they got cornered in 0.0 and couldn't move on but couldn't die either due to their dev mods)? Also props for using the term "carebear", it shows you actually care and aren't referring to anyone living in high-sec as someone inferior to low sec and null sec dwellers...oh wait. PS: The GM FC lost connection during the fleet op not on jump in by what I know, gg on the source though.

And your forth link pretty much proves you haven't played EVE for nearly as long as you claim because Amamake is a low sec system in close proximity to high-sec which is a famous pvp killing ground (similar to Egg-hell) where PL make their home but which could be pretty easily inundated with people from any group (be it alliances from null sec, low sec or even high-secers) as bubbles do not work in low sec so gate camps are much, much less deadly for an organized group and it being in the Heimatar region it is much more better placed to get ships from Jita to there and if my history is correct back then it was also one of the systems with such traits farther, through null sec, for CFC.

 

As for the people who are leaving with you... 30+ subs or however much you said... I would imagine more are gonna come in knowing that so many cloaky afk gankers have left the game (and I am giving those people the benefit of reading both threads and checking out your history, if they are just the type to feel moral outrage at someone getting their due... they really weren't much better to begin with).

 

Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.

While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay.  When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first.  I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine.  My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.

When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players.  All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.

On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.

As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system.  If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate.  If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.

Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL.  Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.  

It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
 

/Snip

There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said. 

 

Now we get into some pretty funny territory as we now have a question that puts words in people's mouth.

How's this; 'When did you stop beating your wife?' is also a 'question'.

 

I see you are avoiding the mention of your thread on the EVE-O forums btw. I would too cause the logic you presented there was even worse.

No the question "when did you stop beating your wife?" is a question relating to an event. My question was aimed at establishing your opinion on a subject.

Consider "when did you stop beating your wife?" vs "do you believe green is a nice color? They are completely different in context.  I think its time to stop trying to obfuscate and twist and simply answer the questions I asked you, don't you think?

As for the link you provided, your interpretation of my intentions in the thread is your interpretation of my intentions.  You have an opinion and your welcome to have one however it is merely your opinion and the thread is there for people to read and come to their own opinions and conclusions.  Or are you proposing that your opinion is fact and there is no other valid opinion or conclusion to be drawn?

 

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Ikonoclastia
 

That you think speaking out against what I have spoken out against is 'lolwut?" is interesting.  

Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong?  

If you think that's "lolwut?" all I have to say to you is lolwut?.  

 

So if I don't agree with you, I am condoning breach of EULA?

Nice strawman you got there. 

Also, why isn't your logic of 'if you don't agree, you are BAD WORD' that was used on the EVE-O forums not being argued here?

For anyone wanting to know the whole story; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4482341#post4482341

If you could link where I said "if you don't agree, you are a BAD WORD" that would be appreciated.  I can tell you now though that you cannot provide a link because that was never said.  The quote you provided is something you made up yourself and not anything I have said.

You then further go on to propose based on your fictional quote that I am using a strawman argument by pretending that I said if you don't agree with me that you are condoning a breach of the EULA which is itself another fictional creation and is a straw-man argument.

In actuality, I did not say "if you don't agree with me you are condoning a breach of the EULA" I instead asked you a number of questions, punctuated with questions marks.  These are below

"Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months?  Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong? "

You have confused a question, designed to illicit a response, with a statement, designed to state something as fact.  The statement would look like this, rather than the above.

You think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months.  You think that complaining against that harassment is wrong.

There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said. 

 

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