|180 posts found|
Originally posted by Dranny
A sandbox is where the developers give you the tools and say go see what rides you can make with these. A themepark is where the developers give you the tools and say take these tools and use them to help you ride our rides.
A good example of old sandbox play in EvE was what I did with privateers and war decs. War decs were originally just a method for a player or corporation to attack another player or corporation in high sec, they were used mostly by small corporations to fight other small corporations. I got frustrated with alliances chasing me off in null sec, so after a bit of forum warrioring I was challenged by an alliance guy, he basically said "if you don't like alliances, declare war on us". He said it as a joke, I took it seriously.
So I created Privateers, declared war on 3 alliances (the limit), rotating those alliances each week and then started inviting everyone and anyone who wanted to join, spies, bored people, anyone, no rules, no required checks and you can leave and join whenever you liked. It turned into an alliance, with corporations welcome. Eventually ending with having up to 100+ wars at any one time.
CCP's sandbox at work right? We used the tools to create something new, and to fight back against the alliances dominating both high, low and null.
CCP's response to alliance members crying bitterly - destroy the idea. Sandbox. Nope.
If it had been a real sandbox CCP should have stayed out, the alliances could have and should have been required to ADAPT to Privateers or be reduced in strength.
Sov is also themepark. There is only one real way to take sov space. Only one real way to blow up a tower or sov asset. No free flowing combat, you always need to wait out the timer and show up for predetermined time and place fight. That's not sandbox.
Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
It's not sandbox.
To take Sov in EvE there is only one method. You get a blob, shoot a structure into reinforced, wait 24ish hours, return to structure. If your blob and reinforcements is bigger you win because no enemy turns up, if smaller you don't turn up, if around the same size you shoot each other. If you manage to blob system first you have an advantage in lag.
One way, no hit and run, no raiding, just structure grinding timers that never end.
For those of you wondering if they should try EVE or if you're getting frustrated...
Jita (General) « EVE Online
8/25/14 6:10:41 AM
Originally posted by Hariken
PvP wise it does have quite a steep learning curve. Each ship has its individual characteristics which you need to learn, not just your own but every other ship in game that will potentially engage you. Not just the ships either, but the likely fits on the ships you're fighting, which you'll need to guesstimate based on how they're fighting you. Then there's all the meta-tricks of the latest patch you have to keep up with + a whole bunch of stuff to do with multi-tasking, cap management, transversal, optimal ranges... crapload of things that a newbie will get wiped out by as they learn.
Of course most of that stuff is negated by the hotdrops, baitships, gankage factor which no amount of knowledge will save you from if you engage the wrong target.
Good to hear that CCP's taking sub hits from the horrible management, with any luck they'll fix the game, get rid of the turds that have it crap and I can go back and play it again.
As someone who played EvE from 2003 to 2013 I have to agree with the jump drives problem as well as the coalition / alliance problem.
Coalitions like CFC have upwards of 35,000 members. If you compare that to the smallest countries in the world the CFC has more members than 29 of the smallest countries. I live in Australia, we have an active army of 25,000 enlisted. CFC has more than that.
In light of that its easy to see how CCP allowing alliances to grow so big puts a huge damper on the game when the average alliance is around 1 to 5 thousand people. The only way to respond to that is to form your own mega-coalitions.
When you introduce jump drives the difficulties in regards to moving, supplying those coalitions is drastically reduced and this leads to more of a requirement to have large coalition blocks form because there is a requirement to have a blue network of systems for jumping your mega fleet around to defend and defeat other fast moving mega-fleets.
Add in the deeply flawed Sov system, a system which requires any attacker to show up 24 hours after attacking a structure to face the full force of a mega-coalition and you have no scope for smaller entities to inflict damage or raid the larger entities.
The game is currently a massive joke and likely will be for many years to come.
Originally posted by Prokaryotik
I don't recommend people play because of the metagame, because of the bias CCP shows towards certain elements of the game, because of the inability to post on the forums due to the censorship of 'special' ISD associated with alliances / corporations in game and because of CCP's inability to fix its tragically broken sovereign system, ease and low cost of suicide ganking against very costly targets and CCP's inability to prevent out of game harassment by players in game.
Another issue which is worth noting are the developer run events which disproportionately favour certain alliances with massive drops worth hundreds of billions of isk, many of which have current and former devs as leaders or high ranking officers.
Due to the above EvE is not worth paying money for as its far to skewed in favour of certain entities in game. The gameplay itself, were it properly managed is a lot of fun, which is why I stuck with it for 11 years.
Originally posted by Kyleran
EvE is both a PvP game and a PvE game. Many claim its a PvP game only but I disagree with that idea. One of the things about EvE is apart from morons who suicide gank its entirely possible to avoid PvP by not creating or joining a PvE corporation or even better, creating a PvP wing foryour PvE corporation. Additionally you can set aside a small proportion of income using tax for rainy days when you are war decced.
One of the main reasons corporations get war decced is they're purely PvE and have created a PvE only corporation with no defence or offence.
While I war decced these types of corporations I always offered them a reasonable fee between 100 million to 1 billion. I also offered new players immunity from the war for 5 million isk and those newbies who declined I would exempt from the war after they were killed twice. Additionally my rule was if one of the members killed me, I immediately retracted the war. At the end of every war, I'd select people who showed courage and skill and contract them a few billion worth of ships as a reward.
I really liked EVE, prior to the new generation of developers who have ruined it and so had no desire to hurt others gameplay which is why I had those limitations.
It wasn't a matter of not being able to handle it. I did for 4 months. At the time we had up to 8 afk cyno fitted ships around the region of null we were operating in. Only 1 followed me around and verbally harassed, including reporting me for minor infractions as another form of harassment. The issue was CCP's inability to enforce its own rules (the rules state you may not follow a player and harass them for extended periods of time) and its selective use of its rules to punish me for using the F word in local while ignoring the above serious breach of the EULA.
Originally posted by DocBrody
Bit of a late reply but if you Googled my in game characters name "Infinity Ziona" you'll find my character was what most people referred to as a "griefer".
I'm in the EvE wiki having created the Privateers alliance, a war deccing corporation. I played for 10 years, the majority of that time as a high sec war deccer killing carebears for extortionate purposes, then branched out to attempting to extort null sec alliances and also dabbled in piracy.
I had no issues with non-consentual pvp, non-consensual pvp is the reason I played for so long. The issue is at some point CCP lost their ability to distinguish between non-consensual pvp and harassment.
Nobody should be allowed to follow a single player, using a disposable alt you can't hurt (just reships and comes back) and a ship with no fittings other then a covert ops cloak and possibly a cyno, with the express purpose of verbally harassing that person. I put up with this because I thought screw it, don't let the moron ruin your gameplay but the final straw was CCP ignoring the harassment and then warning me for using the F word after this person harassing me reported me. The report obviously just another form of their harassment. The F word and much much worse, I'm talking sick perverted stuff that should get people insta-banned in Jita and Amarr being ignored, is extremely common in EvE.
Originally posted by Dihoru
I suggest you read the EULA.
Originally posted by Dihoru
You're missing one crucial point. EvE doesn't give you the 'freedom' to do what was done to me. Its explicitly stated in the EULA and TOS that you cannot harass a player with the intention to cause that players game play to suffer.
The definition of harassment is of course important. While people have tried to paint my in game play as harassment its clearly within the rules of the game whereas the harassment of my character is clearly outside of the allowed conduct.
Regardless of whether you believe personally my in game conduct is deserving of their in game conduct its clearly against the rules of the game and as such should be punishable. If the conduct is now acceptable then the rules of the game should be changed however they have not been so your position is really not relevant.
Originally posted by Dihoru
Since when is a war against an alliance considered abusing players? If you want to expand on that then anyone going into another persons sovereign space to kill them is abusing players? I guess any sovereignty war then is abuse since it's very much what I did to Tribal.
No clearly you seem intent on trying to justify creating alts to follow one player around for 4 months verbally abusing by calling them a pedophile and inferring they watch child porn by very wrongly comparing that behavior to normal pvp play.
Originally posted by uplink4242
Your post alledges"bullshit" and "factless evidence" but you don't actually specify any. I'd be interested to know what specifically I have said that is "bullshit" and "factless evidence".
Do you deny that the forums are being moderated in a biased fashion?
Do you deny that a number of current and former developers are part of Goonswarm?
Do you deny that the requirement for any smaller entity to turn up 24 hours after an attack to be met by a % of the 40,000 CFC to finish off an attack isn't beneficial to the 40,000 CFC members?
Do you deny that the only permanent member of the CSM is a Goon, that the soveriegnty system wasn't at least partially designed by a former EvE player, turned developer, turned PL leader?
Do you deny that CCP staged an event which directly dropped 800 billion isk worth of extremely rare monocles to that same ex-Dev now leader of PL?
Do you deny that same ex-player, turned dev, turned PL leader is not and has not been the chairperson of the CSM.
Do you deny that the voting process for CSM means the CFC and Goons can vote in as many members of the CFC / Goons as they want.
Do you deny that petitions regarding my harassment were never acted upon. I can't tell you if it was either because GM's refuse to actually tell you if anything was done. All I know is that person is still in game.
Do you deny that any post that the forum trolls and abusers dont' like is filled with hate, spam and trolling until the ISD locks it rather than take care of the trolls, haters and spammers??
There is a lot more you could deny but the truth is the truth and mere denials don't change that.
Originally posted by Vexus_X
No. The point is that if you're looking for a game to play and you're considering playing EvE that you need to be aware that:
* certain special players who have RL connections to CCP, ISD (forum moderators), GM's, CSM (player representatives who only represent a small group of players) will be immune from any actions against your player even when those actions are in breach of the EULA and TOS and extend out of game.
* certain players can choose to continuously and methodically 'grief' you and you will have no recourse other than to not log on and play.
* There is no forum moderation and as such you will be unable to use the forums without being constantly trolled, harassed and abused by other forum users. If you complain your complaints will be ignored and the ISD will start a campaign of locking every thread you make by using random EULA / TOS violations while ignoring hundreds of similiar EULA / TOS violations in those threads made against you.
* The huge fleet battles that CCP pretend happen on a regular basis don't actually happen. 100% of conquerable space is conquered by two massive coalitions, one of which is Goonswarm or what many people call Devswarm for obvious reasons.
* If you do manage to get into an alliance without being tricked into a 5 second you vs 100+ players ganking you and its not Devswarm or its coalition CFC then your fleet battles will consist of 4000 Devswarm vs 2000 or less of you being royally screwed in 1 second per frame slideshow that turns 2 hours of one sided PvP into 8 or more hours of 1 sided PvP.
If you do manage to beat Devswarm, the slowed down system mechanics in which you are fighting will allow them to bring 4000 more players to ensure your victory is very short lived since outside of the time dilation ships and pilots will be able to move 10's of jumps in the time it takes for you to lock and shoot a single ship.
* You'll be facing a coalition of around 40,000 players or more. To put that in perspective, my country Australia has an active army of 20,000 people. If CFC and Goons were a country, they would rank 30th on the list of the worlds smaller countries.
* If you join an event in game you'll most likely be fed to very high SP players by the developers leading that event.
* You'll have to try to deal trying to fight players who are developers or friends of developers.
* You'll have to deal with events in which the biggest most poweful alliances in the game use alts that cannot be tracked or have revenge taken against them insta killing you whenever they like even in the most safe newbie areas of the game without any recourse.
Originally posted by Mr.SeriousGuy
Yeah I don't really get the spreadsheet analogy. There is quite a of lot of player skill required in small scale EvE pvp. It is more based on knowledge of the game mechanics rather than quick reflexes but at the same time you do have to do a lot of micromanaging in combat that is similiar to what you would find in World of Warcraft type PvP.
Take this for example.
Blaster Proteus (Warrior) with 120k EHP buffer (health bar), 700 dps (dps), webs (snares), range issues (kiting, preventing kiting), scrambles (stuns / roots), capacitor (mana / stamina), nuets, ecm (special attacks).
Just like a good pvp'r in World of Warcraft is the one that can integrate all of that into their pvp while adjusting to the dynamic nature of battle, one has to do the same in EvE PvP.
For large fleet battles, which is where CCP pushes all its funds and energy, yeah its basically spreadsheets but for actual real pvp in smaller battles, they're very similiar.
Originally posted by hfztt
Yeah this is true. Griefing (screw my teacher who told me to put an i before e except after c, its really messed with my spelling) has been around since day 0.
But we also had a CCP who cared about keeping every player they could get. It was a CCP that was invested in their game, not their friendships with certain players theyve made out of game within Goonswarm, the CSM and ISD.
When CCP made changes to the game that imbalanced ships, such that mining and missioning ships could be alpha'd down in one shot they beefed up Concord or fixed those issues. When players found holes in the code they banned those players for exploting (Zombie, an entire corporation of players was banned for such an exploit).
But as CCP's playerbase grew, as devs left and other devs from inside the playerbase were recruited, likely more to do with out of game friendships rather than development skill, the devs became less and less likely to take action. Exploits and imbalanced mechanics which were beneficial to favoured in game entities were allowed to stay in and be exploited and only then patched out and declared bannable after being farmed for years (tech moons as an example).
We're at a stage now that Goonswarm, despite having abused timers for years, and having almost taken over the entire player claimable areas, is still allowed to abuse those timers. Despite the timer issue killing the primary reason to play EVE, big space battles of thousands of players on each side, the timer issue has been declared 'working fine and we're not intending to change anything in the immediate future".
The rot starts within CCP, because CCP has allowed itself to become mired in external RL friendships, with both Goonswarm, PL, the griefers, the CSM, CCP itself and the ISD not being able to be independent of the other groups.
Originally posted by nicarift
I made a post after that post linking irrefutable evidence of what I said. I'm not going to link it again.
I would also like to respond to the people who seek to discredit me as an "Exaggerator, troll etc".
I have played EvE from April 2003 to just recently, 11 years of EvE Online. This means I have a very good knowledge of the game, its politics, and how it has changed from a great game and great community to a very poor game, with very broken mechanics and a very poor community that experiences no moderation at all other than against those people who speak out against the state of the game.
The reason; a core clique of trolls and abusers dislike me is simply because I am not afraid to speak out. I don't merely offer opinions, I test and present factual results.
When the alliances dared me to war dec them in EVE, I created the Privateers, and we declared war on almost every alliance in game. The alliances screamed and cried and railed against us and we were nerfed.
When Baltec and co claimed that high sec was too easy and rich and that null sec was poor and ignored I took a ship out to null sec, into Baltecs alliances space, and by running sites and screenshotting my drops I showed that one could make multiple billions of isk solo in null, thousands of times more than one could make in high sec in the same period.
When NC. griefed a guy with cancer, I spoke out against them very strongly. When the CSM votes, I make posts about how theres a permanent Goon on the CSM, how the vote is so imbalanced its pointless to even vote, how 10 people all from Goons and the big alliances are allowed to vote on game changing mechanics (No Cov Ops Cloak on the Nestor for example) And so on and so on.
The alliances, ISD, CSM and CPP don't like criticism, they don't like people disagreeing with their all knowledgable clique and so I was ostracized, every post on the boards I made was filled with pages upon pages of unmoderated personal attacks and trolling.
In my opinion, the person harassing me in game was very likely one of the ISD, CSM, or perhaps even worse. At the least the inaction by CCP was a outright confirmation that when it comes to people who speak out against CCP's nepotistic clique ridden game, out of game harassment is ignored.
Originally posted by Dihoru
Let's look at my in game actions versus the person who harassed me.
My Victim Tribal Band - a deep null sec alliance with thousands of players.
Me, a single player in a very expensive ship and pod.
The "Griefing" - I cloaked in their system and killed players over a month long period. I had originally gone down there to see if I could dock so I could make some isk as I had just returned to EvE after a year or so away from the game. I had been attacked by their members for no reason other than that I had intruded on their space.
My methods - After being aggressed and finding out that I was not allowed to dock I asked for blue status so I could dock. It was denied. I then told them if they refused to let me dock I would start killing them, primarily because they had tried to kill me.
I then began killing them. Each time in a system filled with their allies. Each time decloaking and exposing myself to boat violencing. While I was AFK cloaking that was entirely due to the inability to log off in station or AFK in station. You do not want to be logging off in war because that provides critical intel regarding when you are active making hot drop traps much more likely.
Over the course of a month I killed 32 ships / pods. In turn was hot dropped once and lost another ship in a trap once. I sacrificed two pods of 1.8 billion isk rather than jump 60 jumps back in which it was highly unlikely I wouldn't hit a bubble and die anyway.
My griefer - 3 brand new alts in noob ships value zero isk.
The reason - none provided
Time period - indefinite, when I quit going on 4 months
Method - perma cloaked, verbal harassment, never open to boat violencing
Clearly the main difference is I was playing within the game rules, I had a valid reason, I provided an 'out', I exposed myself regularly to PvP and retaliation, I was putting multiple billions of isk on the line (faction fit T3, full head of high grade implants), I was using my main (reputation and consequences in the future).
To try to compare the two is infantile and ignores that my actions were within the game rules while the others actions were harassment and bannable.
Edit: I'll also point out that one of the things that separates me from a greifer is that during the war with Tribal I identified several noobie players in who were operating in the area and after killing them once or twice I sent them a mail telling them that they were free to operate in the area and would no longer be attacked. I did that because I recognize that repeat killing of noobs is not beneficial to me or the game and my primary motivation is to have fun, not make people unhappy and quit. That's the very definition of a good player, one that CCP should wish to keep, not a greifer, who they should wish to get rid of.
Originally posted by Dihoru
Once again my actions were not bannable. The actions of the person who harassed me were. If a player cannot deal with normal gameplay and takes it so personally they sub 3 alt accounts for the purposes of implementing a months long campaign of harassment in breach of the TOS and EULA then they should have action taken against those accounts.
There is no place in game or on the forums for stalking or harassment. CCPs words not mine. Read the EULA and TOS. It sounds like your defense of this persons weird fixation which may have been caused by my legitimate and within the rules actions in game might even go as far as out of game actions against a player (assault etc).
Originally posted by Dihoru
Just a bunch of excuses for aweful, abusive, dishonest conduct.
While I have blockaded corporations and alliances in EVE using cloaky mechanics that is fully within the scope of normal gameplay. When I blockaded Unforgiving I did so in response to them sending cloaky campers up to our area first. I offered them a way out, remove the cloaky campers from our area and I remove mine. My presence in their system was conditional on their presence in ours and they had a choice as to whether I stayed or not.
When I blockaded Tribal Band again it was for a specific reason and I didn't follow a single player, but the entire alliance of 1000's of players. All they had to do was give me docking rights and I would have stopped.
On the other hand, specfically targeting me, for no apparent reason, calling me a pedophile and other disgusting things, ranting for hours non-stop in local, even when I was not replying and not providing any way to get rid of them is outright, rule breaking harassment.
As for the PL thing, if you watch the video you can clearly see the only people fighting CCP are PL, the reason, if you had actually played EvE for a decent amount of time is that Amamake is PL's staging and home system. If you hold an event there its certain, not probably, but certain, that PL, being one of the most powerful alliances in the game will dominate. If you fill your ships with 30 bill isk monocles its certain, not probable, that the people looting those monocles will be PL.
Even if high seccers had gone to Amamake to try to kill CCP they would have been systematically slaughtered by PL. Players know that, PL knows that, Devs should know that.
It was an outright, "here have 800 billion isk in stuff PL" by the devs.
Originally posted by jpnz
No the question "when did you stop beating your wife?" is a question relating to an event. My question was aimed at establishing your opinion on a subject.
Consider "when did you stop beating your wife?" vs "do you believe green is a nice color? They are completely different in context. I think its time to stop trying to obfuscate and twist and simply answer the questions I asked you, don't you think?
As for the link you provided, your interpretation of my intentions in the thread is your interpretation of my intentions. You have an opinion and your welcome to have one however it is merely your opinion and the thread is there for people to read and come to their own opinions and conclusions. Or are you proposing that your opinion is fact and there is no other valid opinion or conclusion to be drawn?
Originally posted by jpnz
If you could link where I said "if you don't agree, you are a BAD WORD" that would be appreciated. I can tell you now though that you cannot provide a link because that was never said. The quote you provided is something you made up yourself and not anything I have said.
You then further go on to propose based on your fictional quote that I am using a strawman argument by pretending that I said if you don't agree with me that you are condoning a breach of the EULA which is itself another fictional creation and is a straw-man argument.
In actuality, I did not say "if you don't agree with me you are condoning a breach of the EULA" I instead asked you a number of questions, punctuated with questions marks. These are below
"Do you think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months? Do you think that complaining against that harassment is wrong? "
You have confused a question, designed to illicit a response, with a statement, designed to state something as fact. The statement would look like this, rather than the above.
You think that players should be allowed to breach the EULA by mounting a ongoing campaign of harassment of a player over a period of 4 months. You think that complaining against that harassment is wrong.
There is a clear difference between what you are trying to propose and the reality of what I said.