Originally posted by Celcius

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by boxsnd
We will see if his prediction is right. I predict exactly the opposite. F2P/B2P will flourish and P2P will die out with WoW.

I predict you are half right. I think the whole genre is going to be in trouble by then.

Business models are not the issue. pisspoor quality MMORPGs are the issue. Create a quality product and people will pay for it. Once you have a quality product, you can then figure out the best business model. But we can all see how dollar signs have driven this industry since the (anomalous) success of WoW. Developers have lost sight of why gamers play and have zeroed in on their wallets. It shows.

MMORPGs weren't originally mainstream games. I believe they will eventually either die out or return to their roots. I also think there will be forks. Gw2 could potentially be the pioneer to such a fork....A hybrization from action games. But in the end, I don't think they will be what we call(ed) MMORPGs

There has not been too many good MMOs for sure. You are right, but I think we are reaching the tail end of that cycle. GW2 has been a huge success -- the biggest since WoW-- and is seeing more initial success then WoW did initially as well. A big reason for this is the B2P model. I think that is the direction "AAA" quality MMOs will go. Games like TESO and Wildstar look to be promising. I think that the future of this genre is fine, but I also think that there will be more quality games coming. From my current perspective the only thing that could screw up TESO and Wildstar at this point is...a sub model.

I think your wrong and the millions of players still playing WoW agree. People don't care what the pay model is as long as the game is good and keeps them playing. Your trying to factor in this current crop of failed mmo's that had to go to F2P to try and recoup some of the money they lost from bad decisions, yes there will always be a few die hard fans that stick around buying stuff from the cash shops, but doesnt that make the game a niche game?

B2P is a funny model, your basically paying a box price for a F2P model game. Now you say that was a huge success, how are you judgeing this huge success? It might have been from launch, but this genre isnt about quick money making titles, it used to be a marathon and about longevity.

It sounds like it, best thing I can say because I have no clue on what it takes to make a game and what costs factor into that. I would guess yes, if you look at DAoC costing them 2.5mil to make years ago. The wages are probably about the same maybe a bit more now, but the hardware is probably alot cheaper today. The most expensive thing will probably the art work and with only players and the world to really take alot of that time its not going to cost as much as a game with a large PvE focus.

You could also ask is 300 million enough? Its supposedly what SWtOR cost to make and that didnt end well. I don't think you can put a price tag on how much to spend on a game to make it great, that all is up to other factors in how well they design the game with what they have to work with. Obviously though even if you spend huge amounts of money you can still make a turd, an expensive turd but its still a turd.

P2P is fine, its if its going to be fun enough for me to hang around is what matters. Never had a problem with P2P being a factor in if I would play a game or not, its all up to the game to earn it.

Not sure what the big fuss is over games being F2P, I can't stand them or cash shops for that matter, if the game is good and I like it I will play it, if it sucks I'm not going to play it even if its free. I know I will not play ESO if it launches F2P though and if it launches B2P with cash shops I will probably wait to purchase it, which I should have done with GW2.

Speed on an archer would probably lead it to being OP, heres why I think it could be. Usually archers need to use a kiting style of battle because they really can't take much damage, this always leads to some kind of slow ability or trap so they can keep distance, which they usually need to do max damage with the bow. Giving speed to this class would allow them to really never be caught and giving them the tool to stay far away from any melee character. ~Now if  you make the speed buff to be null when in combat I can see that being fine. But a scout is really meant to be alone ahead of the group to, well scout, so other scouts would have to stay with the group if they were the only means of speed which I guess could bring in some strategy of how many your willing to have out and how many will need to stay back. 

I think a minstrel type class would be the perfect fit for a speed buff class, they can also have lots of other support spells to be a powerful group oriented class. But then you run the risk of having buff bots, which MJ has said he will try and counter by making it hard for them to be feasible, which you can do by making alot of the support skills needing certain triggers for them to be able to cast or to maxamize the efficiency of them while in combat, ie. like large aoe's, longer lasting effects, more powerful buffs.

Originally posted by Vannor

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by Vannor
I just think that the more an MMO (or any game) tells us what we can and what we can't do in terms of travel or exploration.. the less it feels like a virtual 'world'. This faction lock stuff is 'probably' a prime example of something like that.

 

 Who would of thunk games having rules and stuff. This is all bad, first its faction locks than next it will be we have to pay for items with real money in the game. Where will it stop.

Can't really see what convinced you to make such an anal and pointless reply?

You know exactly what I mean.

Like, in WoW, going to Stormwind as Horde is pretty much a death sentence.. but you can at least still give it a go. You just have more freedom in that sort of world. In ESO you'll have less freedom. I mean, people complain about dumbing down MMOs.. this is definately a dumbing down of travel and exploration. It's less options for us players, less than other MMOs have given us in the past... a step backwards.

 I agree, your right man. What are games coming too.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by Vannor
I just think that the more an MMO (or any game) tells us what we can and what we can't do in terms of travel or exploration.. the less it feels like a virtual 'world'. This faction lock stuff is 'probably' a prime example of something like that.

 

 Who would of thunk games having rules and stuff. This is all bad, first its faction locks than next it will be we have to pay for items with real money in the game. Where will it stop.

Then you shouldn't fret, no one is saying that any TES game shouldn't have rules.

Every TES game has rules.

They just try to limit the, er "limiations".

 I can't believe they didnt go for consoles, that is where all their money is from.

Originally posted by Vannor
I just think that the more an MMO (or any game) tells us what we can and what we can't do in terms of travel or exploration.. the less it feels like a virtual 'world'. This faction lock stuff is 'probably' a prime example of something like that.

 

 Who would of thunk games having rules and stuff. This is all bad, first its faction locks than next it will be we have to pay for items with real money in the game. Where will it stop.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by jtcgs

Which didnt come out until long after DaoC...

 It still is true...

And its still true that no one copied DaoC even in the years before WoW came out...no amount of wanting to avoid it is going to change it.

 That is true, until GW2 came out no other game really tried it out, which I thought they did a piss poor job on. Hey man keep crying about ESO, they will change it. They have shown they are soft on tears and will cave to demands. No amount a just wanting them to listen to you is going to help, you got to get out there and really try hard.

You could try a tear soaked hand written letter, might go over well.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Fearum

Originally posted by jtcgs

Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

 Because they all had their lips around the junk of another game called WoW.

Which didnt come out until long after DaoC...

 It still is true...

Originally posted by jtcgs

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Then he did a complete 180 over the last couple of weeks as it was a comment from him that they were considering renaming it to DAoC 2.

Then he needs to play EA money to do so, they cant even fund their own game without kickstar. What a new Kickstar to buy the name DAoC? He was trying to cash in on the name and get more DAoC fans. I dont blame him but you wont see anyting happen in writing.

Sounds just a little like a company trying to cash in on another games name in order to make a new DaoC...only buttend backwards by tring to use TES fans to do it.

Then again, maybe they WERE the smart ones and new that trying to make a new DaoC would fail because it was such a crap game and they knew they needed a new IP to leech off of with their piss poor game design that NOBODY ELSE WANTED TO EVEN COPY!

Refute that...if DaoCs closed factions via invisible walls and funneled PvP was so great, why didnt anyone else use it? Yeah...

 Because they all had their lips around the junk of another game called WoW.

Sending out more invites today and tomorrow.

http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/news/post/2013/04/08/new-beta-invitations-on-their-way

Originally posted by Sephiroso

Originally posted by Fearum
You do have 12 skill, have to change weapons which you can do at anytime which will bring up your other 6.

his point was whats the point in having to switch weapons just to get more skills instead of just giving them to the character. to which i'd have to agree with him. i can understand on one level you may want to say its breaking immersion if you can use the same skill with different weapons but then you're just splitting hairs.

 I don't understand the point, you still have the skills on another weapon. I don't see a problem in how they are doing it. It also brings in strategy, which skills you have equiped instead of having 100 skills all over your screen you have to be prepared before the battle.