Originally posted by bubaluba
What did we get with new expansion? Jump gate animation, It is ok but annoying. Faction battlecruisers are stupid and waste of time. But creme de la creme are racial skills for destroyers and battlecruisers!!! Cmon! Don't we have enough skills for few years and now we need more crappy skills??!! I never said something against Eve but this is most retarded expansion ever and all of this ass kissing players on chat channels are ridiculous. Sorry for my English, i'm so angry on my favorite game that i could crash my keyboard at this moment

They rearranged a number of skills around making them more "sensible". Destroyers were made racial as they were made a prereq for crusiers and BCs were made a prereq for BSs. Most people grab these ships in training anyway but may not need something like frig 4 or cruiser 4 like in the previous system.

Your list of MMOs tried (recently) far exceeds mine. I gave up on STO as the only reason I started to play it was to play with some IRL friends of mine. They slowly dropped and stopped playing together. Other than that I play Eve exclusively. Compared to it, most newer games shallow wastes of time.

Enjoyment in whatever game is dependent on your interest. If you are saying, "let me try something and hopefully it peaks my interest and doesn't suck," then you will not have fun.

To many times I've heard of people gunning for a new game as if it was going to be the savior to their dissatisfaction in games. Often they think that some new game will come out with amazing features that makes it a must-have. I bring up that an existing game with similar features already exist, then I get told that they do not like some insignificant design bug preventing them from playing it. If you are in this camp, stop, take a moment and think what you are doing. There will be NO game to save you from your frustrations. Design bugs are perks, exploits and reminders of the unique nature of the experience you have in the game you are playing.

Eventually, we all are going to give up on gaming altogether or learn to enjoy what offers are out there. My only advise is do what you enjoy, if companies believe that they can remain profitable with the quality that they currently deliver only the test of time will tell who is right... But that isn't something we as gamers should worry about, we are here to have a good time.

Originally posted by akiira69

Originally posted by MMOExposed

This thread discussion about this huge AAA MMO got me really riled up to make this thread. Because its going no where there.

The main argument I see for why "SLOW" leveling is needed, is because it makes people learn their class.

Well thats a common misconception. What if somebody played one spec while leveling, and switched to a new spec once at max level thats totally different. How would any of that level grinding, develop their skill in using those others specs?

We see this a lot in trinity based games. People level as DPS or something like it, but want to play Healer or Tank at endgame, which is a totally different play style.

Group content is the best way to develop Tanking and Healing skills. Not Leveling.

 

Seem like people also feel that people who dont like grinding, shouldnt play MMOs. Well when did it become set in stone that MMO gamers need to like grinding, and that all MMOs need to be grindy?

I to quit my favorite MMO (rift) during Storm Legion because of the huge level grind. I couldnt bare being locked away from content and features and builds after spending months as a max level already. The Level grind was long and boring killing mobs and mobs, or even Quest and Quest or whatever else in between.

Same thing in GW2. I was bored out my mind trying to level my alts after the big flood of hype wore off. Man that was crazy boring. Events and Hearts just were totally boring for leveling. After my Main got to 80, I refused to do hearts anymore because of how tired I am of Quest Grinding in MMOs. But outside of Hearts there was a hard time gaining consistent leveling exp which also felt slower than it already was with the heart grind.

 

Why do we need levels in MMO anymore?

All they do is lock away players from content.

Its a huge time sink. Prove me wrong!!!!

 

Take any Themepark MMO that has level grind. Now imagine how that game would be if it didnt have level. Everything would be endgame content. Imagine that for a moment. That seem like a better game than they currently are.

 

New MMO games launch with level grind, than when people get to max level, they find out that most of the development resources went into non max level content which become meaningless and outleveled. (SWTOR, Rift, WoW, etc)

But if that same game had no levels to begin with, all that content would be endgame instead of the tiny max level stuff.

Levels Segregate the community.

again Prove me wrong!!

The reason level based MMO's are prefered over Skill Based MMO's is becasue Skill Based MMO's are a bigger time sink than a level based. Prime example of this is EVE Online. In order to get any where in EVE Online you have to spend 2 - 3 years just on leveling skills alone. Where as a game like Rift or Everquest 2 you spend only 4 - 5 months to get to max level. The only exception to this is the Korean or Japanese MMO's like Final Fantasy and Lineage 2.

This is incorrect. I have two characters in the cooker with 3 month skill plan for a specific role (cloak scouts + more). This is considered participating in "end game" There are plenty of things along the way that I could do with these alts, but I decided I do not have the time to do what I wanted to do.

I can have a character doing something in a few days, or a few hours depending the task I want to do. It takes longer for most to figure out WHAT they want to do.

Statement still stands, those games forcing you to level, do not allow you to participate in most groups until you reach the level. Then gear grinds, etc, take over.

Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by KingJiggly
There has never been a golden age of mmos. The golden age will come when an mmo reaches the casual market, similair to how gw2 is doing it. Themeparks are the future, you just need to build on them.

themepark games are not casual lol. Sandbox games are for  casual gamers. Are you sure you know what casual means? Because themeparks are anything but casual. And games use to be casual, just to difficult for some to grasp how to play and needed their hands held.

Themeparks are the definition of casual.... It's a story you follow along, if you only play a bit or all day doesn't matter. You're on a yellow brick road. You can stop playing for months and come back right where you left off. End game is really the only part of a themepark that becomes " hard core "

Sandbox, unless you treat it like a glorified chat room takes a lot of time to get anywhere in. They are not very casual friendly.

Either themeparks or sandboxes can be seen or played as casual. Themeparks, by design require the devs to continously release content to satisfy those who burn through it quickly. What is left is a few players at the top, and hordes of people trying to catch up, and a few left behind playing the game as a single player game. Usually if your not at top you declare yourself casual, despite how much time you invest in the game.

Games that appeal to the causal player will offer them something. At least for me playing an MMO as a single player game is not one of those things. I rather play a single player RPG, which caters better to the experience.

So it is like every other game that allows ganking in one way or other.

But the real question, is why do you feel this way? There are plenty of functional roles a new player, one who had played for a few months can get into. In under 3 months I got into an interceptor, and I still fly frigates half the time even after 4 years. T3 BCs can be amazing sniper boats, but a week old rifter can ruin one of thier days.

What new players lack is experience. There are plenty of ways to take advantage of a PVP situation over older, higher SP players.

Originally posted by MumboJumbo
Minecraft let the cat out of the bag and made developers realise -> interactive object world + player imagination >> graphix + dev static content.

This. There was a gap that hadn't been filled for a long time.

Originally posted by Deleted User

Originally posted by IfrianMMO

Originally posted by DarSepki Also you were beat by a girl.

Care to elaborate?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

 

I can't wait to find out.

 

*chubs popcorn*

By making money while leveling, and being able to level to CAP. Something you were not able to do.

It is a small thing, I am sure that you do not consider as an achievement. But I do not see deleting my forum account as an achievement either.

Originally posted by MagnusCeleritas

Originally posted by DarSepki

Great post Kyleran!

 

OP has stepped over the line with buying gold. But repeatly claimed his source does not contribute to the problems related to gold buying, stealing accounts, etc. Unless you know the personally, and know thier exact methods, than no they are not trusted.

Pass blame to the high level farmers, and the fact that lower level items go for higher prices. Welcome to inflation. Knowing this problem, isn't it just as easy to sell and work the AH a bit to get the gold that you need. That is if OP is smart enough! Instead lets just assume that the gold is aquired only by those who farm exclusively for it and not by those who play smart with what they have.

Managing your virtual resources IS a part of the game. It may be called grindy or boring, but buying gold is considered cheating and the reason why accounts caught with this activity are banned. To the OP, you have two choices, either play by the rules established by the game (and supported by the community), or as you stated:

...Alt-F4 and unsub: grindy boredom.

It is that simple. Making money is easy, alot easier than the other things that you claimed that you are good at. And it takes far less time that you claim. But if you cannot face these facts, it does not justify for cheating and supporting ruining the game experience.

Making gold as a level 1 is not as easy as you think it is, unless you get to a high level first (preferably max level).

Ironically, the sole reason I buy gold is because I am NOT max level.

 

Could it be that some of us actually prefer the adventure, and DONT want to rush to end game? I rarely have a max level in any game-- do you know why? It's not because I don't play enough. It's because of two reasons: I dont want one, and I have too many alts to have one.

Okay, I lied, in DAoC I had one and it was crazy fun. Getting there was not though. Me and my friend labeled it "Dark Age of Task Dungeons" due to how boring and mind-numbing the grind was to max level. (Back in the beta days of DAoC, I had so many characters on so many realms, I never even came close to max level, so that's why I only did on the classic server- hence the Task Dungeons). And it's kindof a lie, bc I almost had several in WoW. Technically though, I almost never have a max level character. Primarily because I play A LOT of games. Even if I play a ton, I dont play ONE a ton. I always have at least a FPS, a MMO, and a RTS--  and find myself playing browser or console games instead! Hahahahaha....

 

Anything boring is something I don't want to participate in. I do not ruin my game experience, I enhance it.

 

The biggest irony that I taste is that no one knows the vendor I buy gold from, but is so insistent that they are evil. If I were to pay IRL cash to my nephew to harvest gold for me, I swear to all that is holy-- everyone here would insist he is somehow a slave, being forced to stay up all night (by me I guess?) perhaps locked up in my Sociopath basement.

 

Hahahahha, it all fits!

 

I'm a narcissistic Sociopath who is so sociopathic, he locks his enslaved chinese nephew (despite the fact I'm african american and not asian in any way) in my sociopath basement, where he is forced to grind for gold 23/7, with a single hour of sleep. He doesn't eat or drink, as I have an IV for that so he can play. When he dies, I am such a narcissistic genius that I believe I am frankenstein monstering him, making him come back to live. In reality, none of this is real, and I am my nephew, I am chinese, and I dont' even play WoW- I yell at a cardboard box all day and pee in it.

Thanks for proving the point for me, your terrible at making money ingame.

I stopped playing WOW years ago, got too easy. But my wife started a new character at level 1, about a year ago. With no outside assistance, and mearly leveling herself with a gathering profession she made thousands and did not even get to level 80.

The assumptions you make about gold grinding ingame are legendary. Also you were beat by a girl.

MMORPG is no longer being used to describe a genre, it is a buzz word companies are using to for more sales. Pre-Wow, there were no 'mainstream' MMO. Now everybody knows them.

MMOS do not need to die, usage of the buzzword does.

Great post Kyleran!

OP has stepped over the line with buying gold. But repeatly claimed his source does not contribute to the problems related to gold buying, stealing accounts, etc. Unless you know the personally, and know thier exact methods, than no they are not trusted.

Pass blame to the high level farmers, and the fact that lower level items go for higher prices. Welcome to inflation. Knowing this problem, isn't it just as easy to sell and work the AH a bit to get the gold that you need. That is if OP is smart enough! Instead lets just assume that the gold is aquired only by those who farm exclusively for it and not by those who play smart with what they have.

Managing your virtual resources IS a part of the game. It may be called grindy or boring, but buying gold is considered cheating and the reason why accounts caught with this activity are banned. To the OP, you have two choices, either play by the rules established by the game (and supported by the community), or as you stated:

...Alt-F4 and unsub: grindy boredom.

It is that simple. Making money is easy, alot easier than the other things that you claimed that you are good at. And it takes far less time that you claim. But if you cannot face these facts, it does not justify for cheating and supporting ruining the game experience.

Part of the issue that must be considered is who the casual may simply be dealing with people that do not understand. That is why would someone have a schedule for an online video game.  Even if it is only 4 hours a week. To some people it would be more acceptable to schedule regular time to watch TV (that could be recorded) than to play a game with other people. I can see the casual simply tagging along whatever friend circle with this mindset, it is less drama for them this way.

My personal group of friends are into gaming, but not so much for online gaming. They are more into going out to eat, go to a movie, or head home and watch something there. If it is a game, it would be played single player. I had spoken to them about my online gaming experiences on several occations, but it was clear that they had no understanding what-so-ever to the concept. Very bright group of people, just they are not wired to this form of entertainment. Fortunally for me, they didn't interfer with my gaming schedule to cause drama, but at the same time my gaming schedule was set arround our regular activities.

Overact much? If a GM was good at their role leading their guild, they will not force members in doing this. Forcing things upon people will make them want to quit. So it would be either, nothing that affects you, or a sign that the guild your in is not a good fit or you.

There is more benifits to what a program like this could bring other than bring or train in new players. It is the first steps to building a community allowing new players to participate. A new player may come into the game without any friends. This service helps them and encourages them to play with other players in instances, PVP etc. Next thing you know they are playing regularly with people they would normally have not. Recruiters can also work with groups like these to idenify potential members for their guilds. A service that blizzard can never provide.

Primary game is Eve

Sometimes I play WoT, and I will finish Skyrim some day!!

Do not give me anything, just don't make the game about obtaining loot. We got so caught up in loot-centric games that permadeath is viewed as a game concept that only mad men who live in caves would suggest. If the game is an MMO, or something of a simlar online experience, the challenge alone should help forge the playerbase.

Originally posted by Shealladh

Originally posted by Soulrift

My offline never-connected-to-the-internet Diablo 2 was perfectly immune to outside hackers.

Agreed, online connection with DRM for a single player game. Blazzard are tools

Blizzard are not tools, as they did well in disigning this money machine. I mean, look at it, not only do they have people pay full price up front but then take cuts when gamers trade virtual properity with each other. Then are fearsely defended by the general fanbase. They are an inspiration to scammers everywhere!

Originally posted by sadeyx

I agree.

Anyone who argues for an 'offline mode'  is simply arguing on behalf of hackers who would pour any amount of resources into exploiting the real money auction.

 

If you want offline mode, either your ignorant or your a hacker.   Either way your not someone who has any crediibility what so ever.

I find this viewpoint to be extermely ignorant

One of the reasons I choose not to buy the game is the whole always online crap. I looked as playing diablo as a secondary game, rather than my primary mmo. That means, playing on the road where I may not have a stable internet connection. OP explains his case where he considers it as a multiplayer game first.

There are other ways to have a DRM without forcing players to always be connected.

Hacking really only has one factor to be sucessful is determination. For what blizard had done, create a game which was previously a singleplayer with a multiplayer option, to a multiplayer game with a legal means to extract money from it. There are hackers that will continuously attempt to target this. This is the only goal of hackers that you identified. The other goal would be to make the game playable in the way they see fit. By this I mean removing this requirement for those who want just the single player.

Fact is, since blizard decided release the game like this, it only encourages hackers. The viewpoint that anyone wanting an offline mode supports hackers is ignorant of the fact that developers could, and should have released an offline mode to feed this demand. There were different ways to handle this.

Calling the game design "forced grouping" sounds terible on its own. It conveys a negative image of playing with people or in a way you do not like. However there has been too much rewarding for solo players as of late.

Forming groups take time, reward those who do it. Don't make the game just as easy or in many cases easier to solo than to group. A good community makes a good MMO. Successful players in an MMO rewarding grouping likely will have teamwork as a core value. Successful players in an MMO that rewards solo players likely will have self interest as a core value. Think what happens to the community then?

I will not lie, grouping, taking the time to learn to work together as a team, takes far more time than going on your own. But the difference would be between playing a game among people, which could be an fulfilling experience lasting years. From a game that would be played in a few weeks/months with little lasting memories of the experience.

I am reminded of AC, and DAOC, which my brother played. I did not have the money or time to play MMO's in those days. But, what I remembered watching him were large open worlds. It would appear to me that the one-open world idea was out there for quite a while.

The graphics were not as good, even for the standards back in those days, but there was a deeper sense back then for the online games. With todays standards I would see major technological advancement in the area before we start seeing compainies go for this again. After that, we would have to see the company go for the nitche crowd. Right now, money and trending are speaking for themselves, people are still buying the current model. Once this trend stops or that the developers realize that they are in a super-staturated the chance we start seeing more of this increases.

Originally posted by NeoZcar2

Souldrainer sigh.....It means everything... You dont understand how a corporation works... They bet everything on a major project and when it fails they have to shut down smaller less "important" but still profitable projects to sidebar thier assets to stay afloat.

 

In December 2010 EA had just over 10,000 employess and laid off 1100 and shut down 12 studios. You are absolutly insane if you think the company grew 700% in less then 2 years time. 

This very well is what will be happening.

The company that I now am working for has been making bad decission after bad decission, very much like EA. Our contract, who has been performing above expectations have been targeted and stripped down over the years. This year they lose this contract. This should have been a wake up call for corporate but they felt it was more important find ways to shift blame to the employees for "under performing". In the latest round of employee evaluations, HR was directed that our contract be rated overall low. Meaning, individual performance evaluations were artifically reduced.

I do not see them removing too many people from the SWTOR dev team, just enough to shift the blame to. The company as a whole will then start blaming the less "important" projects for not performing the way they need to.

I am sorry to see this happen to anyone, but best luck to all those affected. Perhaps we will see more independant studios come out of this, away from this mega-corporation greed.

Originally posted by calranthe

Yep Alpha Fleet, we are going to have so much fun today.

 

Server is starting up! Here we go!!!