Lets clear this up.

When Yoshi talks about looking to WoW he means that ARR will have the same quality of life, UI, basic world layout, controls and polish that is the standard in fantasy thempark mmorpgs. Even if you intend to do something very different from WoW you still need to be aware of the standard to know what most people are used to, even if it’s something as basic as inventory system, so you don’t re-invent the wheel unnecessary.

Tanaka and his crew where operating in a vacuum, with no idea what the rest of the world had been playing or what devs had been building upon. This isn’t about WoW clones; this is about standards of convenience that FFXIV lacked completely, and for no good reason. It wasn’t a bold new experiment; it was a mess, due to ignorance. The UI had so many awkward and redundant elements, and combat so many stages, the map, NPCs, crafting so convoluted and unhelpful. What few original ideas FFXIV had was lost in the obtuse design, not to mention the technical incompetence.

The mmo world, from Rift's server tech and dynamics, to audio NPC info dumps in DCUO, to the action combat in TERA, to open world and pvp in GW2 and story presentation in SWTOR all have something that Squenix can learn from. Only once they know what other ideas have been tried, what has failed and what has worked can they build upon that with something new. If you look at their latest production diaries they are starting to include ideas I have never seen in an MMO, such as boss drops and class gear for you mount.

People who worry about a WoW clone fail to appreciate just how out of touch the FFXIV devs where for so long, they need to catch up, even if it means sometimes making the same mistakes others have made.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

I've always held that it was due to a lack of time to complete rather than not listening. If you watch the developer diary that came with the collector's edition it becomes apparent - they had a lot of grand plans but nearly enough time and resources to bring them to fruition. I think even Miyamoto says at one point that he was given like a week to throw together his portion of the soundtrack.

 

I'm sorry but I must debunk this myth, time wasn't the largest factor, not even remotely, they built the entire game from the ground up on the wrong engine, bad server coding, a terrible game design philosophy, and a complete ignorance of all quality of life standards within the mmo industry. That’s why they had to build a new engine after all, it didn’t matter how much time Yoshida was given, he knew they would be fighting against bad servers and engine limitations indefinitely.

This was obvious the moment he took a look under the hood, you think they took the news of a reboot well? They had no choice, there was no salvaging this.

I am sick of this time excuse, Tanaka made every mistake in the developer handbook, someone with that much clout doesn’t get kicked off unless there was no defending him in the board room. The dev diary is their defence, not a complete history. Tanaka's attitude and ignorance of the last decade of mmo development is a matter of record. But it's also very clear in every aspect of the game at launch. We all know what a rushed game looks like, this was something else, hubris and isolationism. That is why Japan rejected FFXIV even more than the EU and US, the beta testers knew they where being ignored. Not to mention the dishonest PR in the build up to launch.

Having said all that I am fully prepared to give ARR a shot, Yoshida made the right call from the start and I hope they get to add all the things they intend after the new launch.

I see the failure of the gods to prevent the next era to be symbolic of the failure of the devs to keep the game's current incarnation alive, they must have been working on this story the moment Yoshida realized they would need to start from scratch.

Originally posted by Clohne

What I don't understand, though, is that people say the entire combat system was horribly done wrong as compared to other games, yet I see a million posts on "I want something different from the usual MMO."

 

The combat system was different, and though others may not share the opinion as well, I rather enjoy that "horrible" combat.

I understand that, it's at least not boring like standard WoW combat is, which I cannot take any more of. But then you have the awkward targeting, the camera and position lock, the loooooooooong delay between actions, cursor and hot bar problems. It feels jarring, like bits of turn based in a real time context. I really hope ARR feels different.

I agree with the OP 100%

This is some of the worst basic design I've ever seen, they need to redo all the crafting UI, and ingredient and gathering balance. World navigation is a pain too, and the tutorial needs tons of work, got killed by a snake at the start, no indication of what to do, as you couldn't out run it.

    Been playing the game watching that red moon get nearer all day, and I am still impressed by how bad so much of it is. The leaves are meaningless tedium, UI a major barrier to immersion and the combat mechanics are the worst of any game, there is so much that needs to change just to make it bearable, and I think Yoshida can do it, but beyond that? Can ARR be actually better than OK?

Sooner they shut 1.0 down and focus 100% on ARR the better. 7hrs  2mins 22secs 11milsecs to go...

The seamless zones in FFXIV 1.0 was a major reason for the game's technical failure, it resulted in bland copy-pasted open world, server and engine issues. By zoning they get to make each zone have more character, and solve server issues, it's a small price to pay, given the horrible mess of 1.0.

It’s important to understand this as a technical limitation, not a design decision made arbitrarily. It would be like complaining that the graphics are not as good as a single player game.

Originally posted by Nitth

Videos like this are classic, I just watched someone walk around for 5 minutes.
If i were to play this i would exhaust the "fun" of walking around within an hour.

Is walking enough to constitute a 30 day subscription? and beyond? i think not.

When I first saw how much tedious running there was through bad enviroments in MikeB's infamous ZAM review of FFXIV at launch I couldnt believe it, but it was true, Tanaka must have been insane. I hope we get mounts a lot easier and sooner in ARR, and a sprint option would be nice, walking about was the dullest of any rpg, and waiting a year for chocobos was insulting. Didnt help that there wasnt anywhere interesting to visit in open world. Lets hope they pander to explorers this time. 

Interesting that they got kick-starter as well, it's possible that they are not getting as much as they hoped, it’s been around $900,000 for awhile on the site now, and we need it to be over 5mil for the extra goodies they want to include.

Maybe word needs to get round more, or maybe it’s been too long, a lot of PC gamers are too young to know who Chris Roberts is, it’s only players in the 30s+ who appreciate the weight of his name on this project, and know that you throw all the money you have at this thing if you want to see the PC at its best as a gaming platform.

DO IT

Though it is a good point that Realm Reborn is essentially a new game, FFXIV 1.0 was SO bad in every possible way that it indicated that no one at SE, or at least who worked on this particular game, had any real understanding of mmo or even game design. Those now working on 2.0 are still SE employees, and the rot may be common to the entire company, not just Tanaka and Co. Plausible given SE's other recent titles and its attitudes and management as a whole.

Even if they correct most of the problems of FFXIV 1.0 that we the players and the industry critics told them about, they are still out of touch, and 2 yrs won’t be enough time to catch up. At most, Realm Reborn will be mediocre, and feel around 5 yrs out of date, which is better than 1.0s 10- 15 yrs, but not enough for a renaissance of the franchise. Nothing less than a masterpiece will do, not for the fans, they will convince themselves it is good enough, but for everyone else who where fans, or who could be.

People seem keen to dismiss the other candidates, and though it is indeed in-keeping with Occ's razor to see them as the reason SWTOR won anything, one does have to ask questions about who gets to choose these other candidates; certainly the judges and EA's own reputation needs to be taken into account.

Also last year Rift won many awards, a game many would say was mediocre, but there wasn’t much competition then either, and before that Star Trek Online was MMO of the year on various sites, so thin was the competition.

One point I wish to make, for me at least Glitch disserved some recognition; it is a very nice little game and innovates far beyond any other mmo nominated.

I really respect TRION and hold them as the standard that most other mmo devs do not meet, I just wish Rift itself was a more interesting game. A major problem is that is has both standard quest hubs and Dynamic Events, and both come of as watered down compared to WoW which focuses on hubs and GW2 which is mostly DEs.

However it's GW2's combat that won me over, even more than the more varied and story based DEs, after TERA I can't go back to passive hotkey rotations. If RIft changed to a more action combat system and added some more interesting races I would return.

Still there is both Defiance and End of Nations, the later I know for a fact is a great game IMO, and I look forward to playing more of Trion's games in the future.