Originally posted by Jemcrystal
Mabinogi is an excellent f2p model and it still has people playing from when the game first came out.  

Ah, but Mabinogi also isn't a linear, derivative, uninspired themepark MMO that we've all seen a gazillion times. Funny how that works, isn't it? I'd consider it my favorite MMORPG of all time and it's the only MMORPG I've played for more than a few weeks. My longest stretch 6 was months or so, and I've gone back to it several times over the last few years. There's nothing quite like it on the market.

If developers attempted to make their game unique instead of wasting millions of dollars and years trying to out-do World of Warcraft, maybe the genre wouldn't be in such a tough spot. Instead, let's blame the economy or payment models! It's a convenient excuse for companies to make when their sub-par product fails miserably.

Originally posted by rogue187
just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't have depth...it has more content than any game out there...it can ( as a noob) keep you busy for years.. it kept me busy...like i said it depends on your outlook of what "in depth" is...

Originally posted by grimal

I was very excited to play this game again when it went F2P this week.  Created a new toon on the new PVP server.  I was quickly reminded why I stopped playing in the first place...the quest hubs and the completely uninteresting story.  I love the graphics and combat of this game.  The PVP is fun as well.  But the quests just kill it for me.

 

Ding, ding, ding.

I too love the aesthetics and combat, but everything else is subpar. There's sweet fuck all to do in the game besides fight, fight, fight ad nauseum. Some people are ok with that, I'm not. I played the CBT and then cancelled my subscription a week after it launched. Rolled on a new sever with a few friends (who have reached endgame on other servers), ripped through some quests and then finally called it a day last night. Got to level 41 and I could no longer stand the monotonous quest hubs. They're beyond terrible. I thought my brain was going to explode. PVP is great, BAMs and dungeons are pretty fun, but getting to endgame is proving to be a bit too much for me to handle.

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by GN-003

Originally posted by Senadina

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well I don't have any motion sickness problems but sure hope they keep making MMOs without action style combat. Tera's wasn't to bad, but for the most part I am not paying any attention to any MMO that is promoting this form of combat. Really wish all you console gamers had stayed out of PC based MMORPGs. ;)

 Hear, hear..+1

Right, because a combat system that's heavily reliant on gear is so much more complex and difficult. We all know that the time spent grinding for said gear truly represents a player's skill level.

your obsession with skill is misplaced.

 

MMOs aren't a playground to test your skill. eSports are.

 

you're looking for the wrong thing in the wrong place.

I was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Senadina

Originally posted by Kyleran
Well I don't have any motion sickness problems but sure hope they keep making MMOs without action style combat. Tera's wasn't to bad, but for the most part I am not paying any attention to any MMO that is promoting this form of combat. Really wish all you console gamers had stayed out of PC based MMORPGs. ;)

 Hear, hear..+1

Right, because a combat system that's heavily reliant on gear is so much more complex and difficult. We all know that the time spent grinding for said gear truly represents a player's skill level.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by aesperus

It's got nothing to do w/ violence Mike. It's all about entitlement. Most gamers now-a-days expect every game to be catered specifically to them, and then scream bloody murder when this isn't true (which is pretty much always). Most people have forgotten, or never knew, how to appreciate games for what they are, and to think about them in the perspective of how the game was actually designed, vs. the perspective of 'what do i want'. This mentallity gets reinforced on this site, because there is fairly unreliable moderation, and little that can be done about trolling (provided the trolls are actually careful about how they word their posts). If you call out anyone for trolling, according to this site, you are therefor a troll yourself, and immediately get warned / banned.

*snip*

this 1000x...  obviously everyone has differn't values in what makes a good or bad video game but just generally feels so many(not just on this site it happens all over on every forum) feel if the game doesn't cater to their every wish its garbage, a failure, ect ect.. oh and i agree with most your change recommendations would be welcomed changes:)

Therein lies the problem. Up until recently, practically every AAA MMO created post-2004 was attempting to cater to one crowd. Let me rephrase that, they were created by one crowd. The, "We want 12 million subscribers like WoW!" crowd. Instead of trying to be innovative and fresh, developers and publishers alike saw the dollar signs, continued to create and then hype subpar, derivative products and now here we are today. It's 2013 and they've finally realized they can't pull that ol' song and dance anymore.

I agree that some people have unrealistic expectations, but we're not exactly swimming in choice at the moment. Entitlement? Perhaps, but I think it's also due to a lack of diversity within the genre. It's difficult to find an MMORPG that suits your style when so many companies are using the same, "Develop MMO by numbers!" guide book.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Pint
TESO appeals a lot to me, I get 3 skyrims to pve in and a fantasy planetside to pvp in. 4 games for the price of one.

That's an interesting outlook. Where have I heard this before... ah, that's right, SWTOR. "Oh my god, it's like KOTOR 3, 4, 5, and 6! It's the ultimate experience!" Do you honestly believe that the solo/PVE portion of TESO is going to be on equal footing with traditional Elder Scrolls games? Not just once, but three times over? Good on you, I suppose.

Originally posted by Bumer/goga

I'm actually glad that there are no customization options for a body. I never liked mini-people running around in Aion. Plus it was a good call to reduce face feature options so there will be less ugly chars. But I hope they will add more hairstyles. It's disappointing to hear that AA has same problem Perfect World has: char creation and game world char doesn't look the same. :(

I've never understood this outlook. Instead of having a wealth of options, you'd rather have a limited CC in order to reduce to risk of running into an ugly character? There are some pretty messed up looking characters in Aion, but for every freak there are countless "normal" looking characters. I either laughed at them or thought to myself, "damn, this guy is creepy looking." Then I moved on. I'm not playing their character, I'm playing mine. The more unique and personalized my character is, the more enjoyable my experience will be. I don't want to be a carbon-copy of everyone else.

I suppose you'd prefer it if you could place a restriction on what type of clothing people wear in real life, that way you'd never be offended. Then there are the people who claim too many options are pointless or overwhelming, as they don't want to worry about sliders for the bridge of their nose. Don't want to tweak your character to that extent? Fine, but don't prevent me from doing so. No one is forcing you to spend an hour in the CC. Variety is the spice of life.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
I really hope this game plays on the same engine as Rift. I really loved how smooth that game played. Anyone know? Any word on what payment model they are using? B2P or P2P... Monthly?

RIFT uses Gamebryo, ArcheAge uses a mixture of CryEngine 2 and CryEngine 3.

It already exists (well, some of what you're asking for anyway), and it happens to be my favorite MMORPG. Mabinogi. The level cap is "infinite" and since there aren't any classes, you can max any and every skill in the game. It would just take an extremely long time, and they release new combat skills with patches. It's one of the reasons I enjoy the game so much, my character is always improving. There's always something to strive for. Hell, there are still some dungeons I haven't even entered yet, because unless I had an extremely strong party carrying me, I'd get wrecked.

I haven't played in awhile, but my character is around level 1,200. Not bad, but the top players are around 7k! It's pretty crazy. The thing with Mabinogi is, the higher level you are, the easier it is to level. Especially if you choose to pay rebirth every week. Rebirths allow you to reset your current level (not total) each week as well as your age and appearence if you so choose. You basically reset your current level to 0. If you're already fairly strong, you can gain 40 levels or so in no time.

There also aren't any level requirements when it comes to gear. A level 1 can wear the same armor as a level 2,000, it doesn't matter. What does matter are enchants and equipment upgrades. These are what separate high level players from lower ones. There is a massive variety of enchants and same are rare/very difficult to obtain. When you find an enchant scroll, there's also a time limit before it expires. So you'll need to find a high level enchanter to minimize the risk of damaging your item or the enchant itself. Going back to weapons and armor, if you have a recipe for an item, you can usually pay a high level blacksmith to forge it for you. These items will have a bit higher stats and durability compared to their regular counterparts.

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Open world free roaming themepark with sandbox elements.

Like daoc and skyrim

How is 3 Faction locked areas and Cyrodiil for PvP considered "open world free roaming"?

Bingo.

Originally posted by emperorwings
Looks good but plays crap. Usual asian styled mmorpg

Looks good, plays like every other deriviative themepark created since 2004. Usual Western styled MMORPG.

Originally posted by TheHavok Online - much more so then GW2, Tera, and SWTOR when those games were in beta.

3)The vocal minority who have been disappointed with everygame released in the last 8 year (and will probably continue to be disappointed..) are trying to blame themepark mmos for the current state of the mmorpg genre.  In reality, there have been multiple sandbox mmos released as well, but they just get nitpicky and start listing reasons why they aren't playing those sandboxes, saying things like

A)They aren't 'true sandboxes'

B)they have annoying features (ex: FFA pvp).

I think it really comes down to the fact that there's pretty much no way to please the players lost in nostalgia.

By all means, rattle off recent sandbox/hybrid MMORPGs that are well funded, well supported and developed by a notable developer. How many AAA sandbox titles have there been? On the flip side, how many AAA themeparks have there been? A lot.

I'm personally not too caught up on labels, as I prefer MMORPGs with options that go beyond combat, combat and more combat. Sandbox, sandpark, whatever. I just want more variety, depth and sense of place in my MMO.

Originally posted by madazz

Just curious, but do you guys ever have doubts in games like Black Desert and ArchAge due to where they are made? I know I do. Very large doubts. I actually can't think of one game from Korea that I really loved. Usually its a pretty cool system and what not but for some reason I feel like the games are hollow. Now don't get me wrong, I'll probably keep an eye on these games (thanks for pointing out Black Desert), but my expectations are very very low.

Either way, thanks for the vid man!

I always have doubts when it comes to MMORPGs, but not because of their country of origin. My favorite MMORPG of all time is Mabinogi which is created by Devcat, a Korean developer. It has more depth and longevity than any of the modern MMORPGs I've played in recent years. That and the fact that it's unique. There's no other game in the genre quite like it. A lot of terrible games come out of Asia, but the same can be said for the western world. I mean, we've had derivative themepark after derivative themepark, so why don't you curse western development?

This just in: The genre has been flooded by subpar, unimaginative games for years. It isn't exclusive to Asia, North America, Jupiter, etc. It's now 2013, and developers/publishers have finally realized that they can't just pump out their WoW-with-a-slight-twist and expect it to be successful.

Why? EA has the Harry Potter license. They're not going to pump funds into another high profile, licensed MMORPG any time soon. They already have SWTOR to worry about.

Originally posted by jacklo

It seems at every crucial point the game ever had, their website was not functioning properly. This is no exception.

Same old, same old.

http://www.swtor.com/free

 

Of course it's down, they're doing maintenance.

Originally posted by bigron

Originally posted by david361107

Originally posted by CaerusX
I feel like Trion needs to embrace f2p with Rift.

Don't ever see Rift going F2P ever. It could try to B2P like GW2 and I'm sure it would do well with that, Rift has so many updates that they could for sure put out XP pack every year. And you can't even compare Rift with GW2 because Rift has been out a little long, little out dated graphic compared to GW2, but the primary difference between the two is Rift is awesome and GW2 sucks. (pop in a quick troll there just for the fun of it) LOL

 

Peace,

Lascer

RIFT actually has a community, GW2, well it's something like this:

01:00 map:Hey anyone there?

01:00 guild MOTD: Welcome

*7 hours later, with no other messages*

08:00 map: Hello?

08:00 guild: *something in Korean characters*

ANet bans and the lack of trinity stifle chat and grouping.

Sorry, I'm not buying that. Do you honestly believe that because people aren't set in predefined roles, they suddenly lose the ability to communicate? I do, however, agree that GW 2 didn't really feel like a community. Perhaps it's because it's so early into its lifespan.

I played Mabinogi on and off for 3 years and that game has a freeform leveling system. What skills you rank is up to you, though some are tied to race. If you want to have ranged skills, wield a two handed sword and wear a bathing suit, you can do that. Also, the level cap is "infinite." Anyways, despite all of that that, people were extremely talkative whether they were in combat, gathering materials in a far away desert, or hanging out in town. The community (while at times, extremely childish and rude) was very active. The game felt alive. The reason for this is because the game focuses on "Fantasy Life," and not just combat, combat, combat. If anything, we communicated more during combat because not everything was so cut and dry.

I think it has more to due with the sort of virtual world the developers craft, design philosophy, the difficulty of the content, the need for interdependence and so on. Here's one example. Going back to Mabinogi, I was never going to bring Enchant all the way to Rank 1 (highest rank). It took a lot of time, resources and ability points. Because of that, if I needed an enchanter to enchant a piece of a equipment from a high rank scroll I found/bought, I needed to seek them out.

Back when I was playing regularly, all of the high ranked blacksmiths, enchanters, chiefs, etc. were well known. Why? Specialization. (I realize that somewhat contradicts what I said in regards to the holy trinity, but I honestly don't believe that it applies to combat). They offer something to the community not everyone is able/willing to do. Same applied to players who were extremely powerful (remember, the level cap is more or less infinite), rich, etc. They become known within the community. In Guild Wars 2, any schmuck with a decent amount of gold can level every crafting profession within a few days.