Second Life. More sex than you can shake a stick at, plus you can build whatever you can imagine. Realistically, you could have all the MMO's on the list inside Second Life, the one big barrier being the graphics.

There are probably just as many people who believe that the game is a success as there are those who believe it a failure. The game's release and condition will do nothing to thwart the bandwagoneers, in my opinion.

I don't really expect anything, hehe. It will probably just be random people killing each other, or maybe high end guilds taking over everything in sight.

I commonly spend close to $50/month in Second Life. I know I don't need that much stuff to enjoy my time in the game, but I like to have it and it's worth it to me. I realize the OP said flat rate and not a cash shop, so I would have to say no, I would not pay $50/month flat rate for a game because that would entitle everyone who plays it to have the same stuff.  And I am fine with that. But if everyone got everything in the game for the same $50/rate, then nobody and nothing would be special. You might have access to all the areas and items, but so would everyone else.

What might make a flat rate of $50/month actually worth it was if the developers or GMs actually had services where they played and/or interacted with the players to make things move along or perhaps to seem more realistic in some way, in my opinion.

Second Life.

The people may have not been any different back then, but the way they acted toward one another, in general, was much different, in my opinion. I believe this is largely attributed to the game mechanics. Players were much more interdependent than they are in modern games, in my experience.

Many people may be too stupid to pirate games efficiently, but there seems to be no shortage of people who are either too lazy to work for the money to buy them, or just unable to, due to their age. With everything going online, pirating can be as easy as downloading one program and using a website search engine. I used to download music before it became "illegal." I used it to check out music I've never heard before, and I never really considered it stealing. I think the problem starts when those people who are smart enough to pirate games start selling them to those who are not as smart. I have little sympathy for multi-billion dollar corporations, but I do have a problem with tax evasion and smaller developers, who are already at a disadvantage, getting the shaft.

Originally posted by Whacko

There will not be a change in MMOs until the player evolves.

Many games over the years produced concepts that would have changed the landscape, but at the core of all MMO genres, we have to look at the player. Most players forgot the true meaning of MMO. 

It's all about community, and the sad thing is that the fabric that is the core of all MMOs is greatly tattered. Changes cannot happen until the player actually allows change to happen.

It's all about the newest coolest thing, right now nobody can argue that the mobile market is playing a role, but the console player is effecting the landscape as well, sometimes in a good way but in my opinion it's killing the MMO creativity. Everything has to be dumbed down to facilitate the specs of a console, so a pc gamer suffers because the market wants to combine the availablity of their games to the largest sector. and sad to say statistics show it's the damn console that has more players for big game titles.

This debate could go on and on, but bottomline it's all about allowing change to happen.

I agee with this. For me, it's always been about how an MMORPG made me feel. Not how it looks or what I can and can't do in the game, it's about feeling alive and with purpose instead of like a cartoon on a computer screen. I'm not saying those things are missing from my real life or that I don't enjoy action games, but I really do expect more from an MMORPG. And I believe, as Whacko stated, it comes down to the players and what they expect from each other. You guys talking about game mechanics and video technology are missing the bigger picture, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Madimorga

Originally posted by jpnz

'Solo' or 'Group' are both VALID playstyles.

A good game will however, offer the players the CHOICE between Solo and Group.

Group will reward with 'more stuff' (XP, Loot, Gold w/e) because grouping takes more effort than solo.

 

What the playerbase does after that is up to the playerbase.

 

There is zero reason for grouping to award exclusive stuff, however.  More stuff per run or a faster run through an area once you set up a good group (which comes down to the same thing) is fine, however.  It's the exclusion of soloers from a certain tier of necessary gear that I have a problem with, not rewarding the time and effort spent making up a group in the first place.

Where do you draw the line though? Eventually players will want the runs to be just as fast with even a poor group. Then they will want the runs to be just as fast if you are solo. I don't think groupers are necesarily arguing for exluding solo gameplay, they seem to be simply trying not to become excluded themselves. If everyone is soloing, it becomes very hard to find groups, in my experience.

---

Originally posted by Mors-Subita

---

Originally posted by Palebane
I think I read somewhere that the servers will not be able to communicate with the other servers in WvW. This will make it hard for two servers to cooperate to take down the more dominant one if such a circumstance does arise. Has there been any confirmation on this?

---

Alb/Hib/Mid in DAOC could not talk to each other either and it never made it a problem. Coordination came from voicechat, forums, outside chat, etc... Or just everyone agreeing only to attack people of faction X.

---

---

Originally posted by Madimorga
If a mob I can't solo doesn't drop anything I want or need that I can't get from other mobs or from crafting then I don't care if I can solo it or not.  You team players can have it.  I'll go kill something else.  But if I do want or need something off that mob then I want to be able to solo it within the level range I need or want the item at.
 
When it comes to game mechanics like elite mobs and instances with specific item drops, it isn't about soloing for the experience, it's about getting whatever you want or need out of an encounter.  If I can't kill it by myself, then let me craft it by myself and you can keep your respawns and your repeatable instances.  I'm incredibly bored of getting loot that way anyway.

---

 
It sounds like you are saying that it's more about the loot than the game experience. If a mob doesn't drop anything you want, but is a good challenge to solo, wouldn't you want to try it anyway?

I think I read somewhere that the servers will not be able to communicate with the other servers in WvW. This will make it hard for two servers to cooperate to take down the more dominant one if such a circumstance does arise. Has there been any confirmation on this?

Originally posted by heimdall22

Originally posted by GMan3

Originally posted by dougmysticey

Originally posted by heimdall22

Originally posted by Palebane

Most modern MMOs are single player games from my perspective. It's the difference between playing baseball and playing alongside 50 other people in batting cages. The genre has a unique feature that hardly anyone utilizes anymore. The most people group up now is in instances which separate players from the rest of the world and the community. I'm sorry for some of you that have such bad personalities that you have no tolerance or concern for the community. If I want to be by myslef I would just play a single-player game.

Well, to be honest, I don't get you. I really don't.

As far as I'm concerned, from your subjective perspective most modern MMOs might be single player games, hot potato games or silver unicorns virginity lost by the moonlight, if that pleases you. But it does'nt change the fact that MMO is what it is - Multiplayer, Massive and Online. If it matches that criteria, it is MMO, wheter you like it or not.

Is the specific game mechanics encouraging teamplay or not, that's completely different story, but since we live in a reasonably free world, we may choose the games that we play ourselves, can't we? So why so many (at least that's my impression) want to tailor SWTOR to their needs and expectations? Why not to simply try it and see wheter you like it or not?

And If it comes to If I want to be by myslef I would just play a single-player game.  - Look, don't get me wrong, I like teamplay whenever I've got a chance and mind to do it, but since I'm busy in my real life, I'dont want to organize my life around the game. And most of the teamplay requires that to one degree or another.

That's why I want to play a game that's solo friendly, but i want to have my avatar in a real persistent world. In a single player game i won't be able to play economy, make money on crafting and fight against other people for instance.

You really need to understand that there are people down there that want to play with others not necessarily by the means of cooperating with them entire time. And SWTOR (or GW2) might deliver what I was looking for. A bit of tolerance please...

 I agree with this post. For me, it is not that I do not want to or won't play in groups. I want the option to solo or group  because I have a wife, kids, job, and other real life things that keep me busy. I may want to play some evening but not have enough time to join a raid....so I go play some solo missions. That said, I want to participate in all of the content from the economy, to crafting, to PVP Warzone, to Flashpoints ,and open world PVP. I want to hang in Cantinas and I want to play my personal story. I want to participate the way I want to based on all the factors of my life.

Like real life, you don't ALWAYS want to be around people 24/7. Some times you just want to do something by yourself. Does that make real life and single player game too.  

    I have to agree with heimdall22 and dougmysticey .  It would be great if I had the time to ALWAYS p[lay on a team, but Developers seem to have realised that very few people have the time or inclination to ALWAYS team up.  So they have changed the model from games that require team play to games that encourage team play, but support solo play as well.  It allows games like SWTOR to be more enticing to a much larger audience that simply forcing people to team could ever do.  And truly, who does this hurt?  Geez there are enough people out there to team up with that if that is your prefered style of play then you should have no trouble finding people to team with.

    In the end though, if a game IS Massive, Multiplayer, and Online; then it does not matter what an individuals "perspective" is.  Facts are facts no matter how you feel about them.  And Palebane, I am not sure what game you are playing, but I almost never have a problem finding people to team up with, so your "unique feature that hardly anyone utilizes anymore " seems to be a little off base.  More than a little actually since many times I actually have to wait for a team spot to open up to get slot with friends.
  

Actually you have pointed out things that doesn't apply only to SWTOR but to MMOs in general. Why on earth there's some sort of tendency to ignore the fact that average age of MMO player nowadays has moved slightly up? And quite naturally we don't have so much time to spend on games anymore nor majority of us, older players, wish to. Having families, real duties etc. we still want to play our favourite genre. And I think it is foolish by the companies to ignore that part of market, because if I was game designer I would focus on them, because that's where they can find good way to make their profit. Other thing is that who on earth has a problem with poeple that don't like to group all the time? Why would you like to enforce people to play your way only? As it was stated above,, to some degree it is like in real world. To each their own, let people play the way they want to. I'm guessing that the game that will support all different playstyles (group content, solo content, small and large scale pvp, crafting) equally will be a real winner. So I don't mind your playstyle, why would you mine then?

 It's not just about combat or auction houses, it's about how playing in the world makes me feel. I don't expect everyone to only play my way, I'm just disappointed that these games do not feel very multiplayer RPG. They feel like co-op action games when I play them. Sure, I can get in a group where noboy talks to each other or cares about anything besides beating the boss or getting loot, but that's not what I expect out of an MMO. If you want to define the genre by the acronym, then fine, they are MMOs. But if you want to define the genre by what it was based and built upon, they are very different games, in my opinion.

I don't expect any of you to understand or agree. Yes, the old MMORPGs and tabletop games were often centered around combat, but they also had a good deal of downtime where players could interact. It was about building relationships and being able to meet players from other cities, states, and countries whom otherwise I would never have the opportunity. There is no common cause, just individual progression. There is no immersion, only statistics. I would argue that if you don't have the time to dedicate to the games, the way they were originally designed, then maybe MMORPG is not the genre for you. The truth is that because I expect so much more out of the games and do have the time to play them properly, the MMORPG is no longer for me.

God damn RPers. Always trying to ruin RPGs.

So much information, I feel I may not need to play the game. I can probably see all the content on youtube. Save myself some money.

Originally posted by Roin

I've never played a Single Player MMO before.  Can you even have one? Short answer.  No, you can't.  The first time you see another player, that game ceases to be Single player.   The closest we've come to that is the story portion of Age of Conan's Tortage Quest. Being able to play a MMO doesnt make it a single player game or single player MMO. Not grouping with people doesn't make it any less of a MMO. Being able to level from start to cap doesn't make it any less of a MMO. I'm still trying to figure out how MMO got twisted into meaning "must group". I was always under the impression it meant a persistent and/or semi-persistant world populated with real players, numbering in the hundreds or even thousands.

I'm really sorry some of you have such bad personalities.  That you need developers to force people to be friendly with you.  Me, personally I would rather have the freedom to decide when/where/If I want to interact with another person.  Not be forced to take Asshole#99 with me just because the game is made for me to be too weak if I don't. *shrug* I just don't think that is the real spirit of what MMO's are about.

Most modern MMOs are single player games from my perspective. It's the difference between playing baseball and playing alongside 50 other people in batting cages. The genre has a unique feature that hardly anyone utilizes anymore. The most people group up now is in instances which separate players from the rest of the world and the community. I'm sorry for some of you that have such bad personalities that you have no tolerance or concern for the community. If I want to be by myslef I would just play a single-player game.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Palebane

 Good point, but on the other hand, how much fun would it be to play basketball or poker by yourself? I thought the games were supposed to be fun pastimes, not chores.

And how many "serious" basketball players spend some of their free time shooting hoops by themselves before/after an all out game?

Or how many just shoot hoops with a buddy or a small pick up game between their actual games?

The guy/gal who does nothing but shoot hoops by themselves isn't really a "basketball player."

But that practice and dedication can and often does lead to pick up games and playing with friends and maybe even to more organized team play.

 

"Solo friendly" MMO gaming is simply telling people that they can shoot hoops by themselves on their own time if they want to, but they still have pick up games and organized league play available too.

Imagine if you legally or physically weren't allowed to just shoot some hoops by yourself in your driveway? Every time you touched a basketball you had to find 3-7 other people of appropriate size and height and skill level to play with.

True as well, sort of like playing single-player games on the side.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by BadSpock

Do 10 minutes of research before posting.

Thanks!

 

My take on MMOs requiring grouping: I don't spend my entire day looking for people to help me out with my chores or whatever, so why would I think I should log into a game world, only to find out I can't pick herbs without 3 of my closest friends? I realize that is extreme, but I think you get my point. I'd say that a larger percentage of gamers are soloing life (even the married ones), so why should game worlds be different? I interact with people when I want, but if I don't want to, I don't.

And, yes, I realize we play games to escape reallity, but requiring MMOs to be played in groups is, IMO, rediculous.

 Good point, but on the other hand, how much fun would it be to play basketball or poker by yourself? I thought the games were supposed to be fun pastimes, not chores.

I am. And deaf too.

Good to hear you are having a good time. I recently went back with a trial account just to visit Neriak and Nektulos Forest . I was pleasantly surprised to see that not much had changed. Lots of fond memories.