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All Posts by centkin

All Posts by centkin

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758 posts found

The big problem with armor repair in ANY game is that it puts the burdon of group endeavours on the tanks.  This was actually reversed in old games like Everquest where there was not armor repairs but spells required components to cast.  The priests needed tons of gems for a raid. 

At any rate as a tank I have seen times where you play for a while in a group and your repair bills are say 500 gold, and the other players have 50 gold repair bills, and the total loot was 300 gold each to the 6 players.  This obviously makes the 50 repair people happy but the tank not very happy.  I can count on one hand how many times a group would say yeah lets give you an extra share to help defray your repair costs. 

It ends up making tanks have to solo gather or do other activities to pay for their grouping while the other players do not have that issue.

This makes tanks scarcer in such games.


Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by psiic

It has been a long time coming but thankfully industry accountants and managers are starting to real study the numbers and realize F2P is not as lucrative as they once imagined.


A F2P business model is ok for a stagnant game with limited staff and no designs on expansion or growth.


The F2P business model is so support and resource heavy that it usually manages to pull an Ouroboros.


The F2P business model has been found to be an unstable, unpredictable revenue source for a factor that directly effects investor support, staffing, and growth.


The problems created by a free to play model outweigh the benefit..


Publishers have begun to realize even though it is less cash in, it is better to 100 players willing to play $15 each, than  2000 paying $1 each. It's a logistics, stability, security, and support issue. Less cash in, but way less expenses out as well. 


In the end it is all about the profit on the books at the end of the day, and not how many unpaying players you can load on to your servers in the mean.

Actually the economics of it say they will continue to operate the F2P model as long as they can.

It mostly has to do what economists call the "economic surplus". In short, if I find a subscription game to be worth $25 a month, but the sub is $15 a month then I, the consumer has received a $10 surplus. (like I said "in short)

There is 1 model of business where the producer is able to obtain all the surplus. That model?  A Perfectly Price Discriminating Monopoly. They obtain all the surplus because they are able to charge each and every consumer exactly what they are willing to pay. I had thought that this was only a hypothetical situation. I was wrong.

F2P games operate as these kinds of monopolies. They are a monopoly since each game can be considered a single product provided by a single producer. They Perfectly Price Discriminate, by charging from $0 to "as much as your willingness". So no consumer receive any surplus, it all goes to the producer.

The key to understanding is that in a Perfectly Competitive Market the profit will be $0, not to say they aren't making money salaries are included as part of the cost curve. When a company charges a sub they have to compete with all the other games that charge a sub. also they loose access to any whose willingness to pay is less than the sub. By going to the F2P model they are able to carve out a small unique market, their game, where they are the monopolist. This allows them access to all the surplus and larger profits.

Right I know, TLDR, and almost no one like economics save a few of us, and I need graphs and whatnots to have a clearer message but, this is why I have always disliked the F2P model and now I can explain why.


Have a nice day,


Of course this neglects the fact that someone would be inherently happier playing a game with an economic surplus.  If I play a game that I like with a $15 sub that I would have been willing to pay $50 per month for, the odds that I am going to continue playing longer is much higher. 

Plus there is the fact that even if you are willing to spend $50 per month on a game, doesn't mean you are going to.  Plus you have the whole possibility that you overspend in a "Free" game.  This has happened in games and then you count things up and say -- naw too much and quit because you went overbudget.

Then there is the perception that it "requires" $100 per month to be competitive.  This is especially relevant in games where they give out prizes to the top 32 in pvp type events.  You just aren't going to place regardless of skill unless you hit x payment level and even then winning will be a $$$$ contest. 

Usually games shake out into a few classes of player:

1) The FTP player who will NEVER pay -- you aren't going to get money out of this player.

2) The FTP player who will buy occasionally for convenience only.  The player who will buy a $4 pack to double their storage then nothing more.

3) The subscription player in a FTP.  This player is trying to budget $X into the game.

4) The whale who will pay what it takes to win.


The problem with most FTP games is they do not protect the #3s from the #4s.  It is the $25-$70 per month budget #3s that leave a game when the #4s become too powerful. 

Technically a FTP game would do well to have servers with 1 2 and 4s on it (where the whales can easily trounce all) and servers where there are only #3s.  There is nothing that says you couldn't have a hybrid where the cash shop is available on most servers, but there are subscription servers as well.

Well, the next expansion takes you into the past.  I could see that being a one-way trip.  Then any new characters you created would also be in the past not the present. 



Originally posted by Fendel84M
Do you have any idea how much of EQ1 is completely unused? This is just what happens as an mmo ages.


Actually, you would be surprised.  When I last played Everquest I had characters placed in the home cities and several other zones who gleaned off the stuff that people sold to vendors.  Some zones were surprisingly still used and provided quite a few crafting components that were worth quite a bit more than the value of buying them back off the shops...


I miss being able to go to a vendor and showing that other people's junk is another man's treasure. 


I especially liked the old old days when practically everything was rebuyable and the vendors only showed 24 slots of 72 hidden slots.  I got sooo many good items that way -- in every early expansion. 

Why not just let people keep all tradeskills active at the same time.  I mean by allowing swaps you are just doing the same thing with a price and a time delay and "temporary amnesia." 


This was one thing about everquest 1 that I really liked.   Mastering ONE tradeskill was really hard back in the day, but if you were a complete nut like I was with tradeskills, you could master ALL of them. 




Here is one other big reason for allowing them at the same time as opposed to swapping...  You tend to hunt in level appropriate areas for a profession and then level past where the things you could later make are.  Hence if you want to do the slow route and level up several professions you will be wanting to swap often which you can't do early due to the costs of it.


Having the swapping mechanism will make people end up hunting a lot in areas way below them while having no swapping mechanism would be more likely to have people stay in areas until they are finished before moving on.


Either that or people will gather and horde and end up creating the maximum number of characters just to hold stuff while not selling anything then shifting professions and just making stuff and then shifting back and doing hoarding.  In essence you are going to have people with 15 alts who are set up just to provide extra storage space.

Too much harvesting/gathering in some games and you start to pick out potential nodes in real life.  It is kind of creepy how such things can stand out.
Originally posted by UNATCOII


Originally posted by centkin Games today are too fair.


As they should be, since the price for admission is double the cost than it was in 1998.

Actually, if you count inflation in there, MMOs are certainly not double the $9.89 per month Everquest was back at the beginning.  It has been pretty consistent actually.  Plus the fact that internet access gets you a lot more, is a lot less optional (back in 1998 you might have gotten internet access just to play Everquest), and is cheaper.

Actually in a way things have become too fair and consistent.  In the old days there could be no griffons in east commons or 7.  One could spawn right on top of you.  A boss could be harder or easier or things could path in on you or etc.  Things were NOT measured for number of players or instanced.  You could have a race to a raid mob because that raid mob was available to anyone who could get to it. 

It wasnt metered.  You weren't fighting mob X as a guild at set time Y once per week.  You fought what spawned with however many people you had at the time.  Some raids were actually done either with many or as few as your guild could handle as a means of regulating difficulty and reward but you could have 72 people in a raid in old everquest and at one point there was not even a formal raid (you just made groups and fought together -- albeit that didn't work very well as the dps group tended to get rewarded).

You were ABLE to make mistakes, and you weren't able to fix them.  It wasn't "fair." 

Games today are too fair.



Actually I do not understand why they require a password at all.  It should be an optional thing that is only used if you use a public PC or to keep your children out (IE a parental thing)


When you log into a game it should ask you for your email and then work only on the machine you installed the game onto (maybe up to three machines for that account as an option).


If you need to add a machine you should be required to log on from the machine in question first and also reply from the email if you want instant access.


If your old machine DIED and it was the only way into the system then you should have a 1 week waiting period to get a transfer to the new machine which would also require the email address response and that the old machine not log in during the period.  (YES for people who care it would be best if you set up your portable and your main computer as potential playsites so you can add from the portable if your PC dies).


Note also you could set it up so your smartphone had a confirmation app to avoid the above. 

Actually one has to wonder about the next expansion.  It almost feels like a one-way door.  You go into the past.  I mean it would make sense in a way that you couldn't come back.  Autolevel to 90 and start there and the whole game is 90-100 and you pull the plug on the old game eventually dropping all the "baggage" of the actual world itself.


Cooking in Pandaria was an experiment.  The low levels of crafting would be able to be rapidly blunt forced with 100% vendor components.

Which f2p game?
LFGame « General Discussion
1/07/14 8:15:33 AM
Again, choose Vanguard.  If one of you plays somewhat more than the other then the one who plays more often can do crafting or diplomacy and retain the same adventuring level as their partner.
Which f2p game?
LFGame « General Discussion
1/02/14 8:26:32 PM

As a DUO try vanguard.  Vanguard stinks solo but the vast majority of the content can be done by a 2 man team. 


One bad thing about most games is that there is solo content and group content, with nothing inbetween.  TONS of 3 and 4 star mobs in vanguard which will be your bread and butter.

No, Yes, No.


Final Fantasy failed, and many will not give it that second bite at the cherry.


Yes, a good subscription game is what a lot of people are looking for.  Whales are a major problem in FTP games.  Yes it pays for the thing, but it means a normal player will never "win" any contests etc anymore.  If you aren't willing to drop a grand, you are not going to compete.  I like the ideal of paying $20 and having an equal playingfield.


Consoles will only result in the dumbing down of MMOs.  Yes it can work well with a golf MMO or even something akin to vindictus, but I do not see a console WoW.

If you are paying to not play the game there is something wrong.
I have come up with a great crafting system -- one that addresses many of the problems that crafting has today in games.  Unfortunately I have not seen anything like it in any game.  I think the key to why crafting is weak in games these days is the definition that group and raid things should give better reward than solo, and crafting is a solo activity.  Crafting should be doable in groups.  Have a system with complications, etc and have say a weaponsmith to form the blade, jewelers setting gems, a player on the bellows controlling the hear, enchanters pouring magic into the blade, and soulrenders pushing the energy out of the orbs left by powerful mobs into the blade all at the same time.  You would also have an overseer who could address complications on any station and/or make shifts to the overall flow of how things are going.  Hence an epic weapon might have 3 enchanters, 3 soulrenders, a weaponsmith, an overseer, a jeweler, and someone on the bellows.  Ten people acting in unison to make a weapon.

The problem is being too strict with the items you can use and the quests you can gain through the leveling process.


Wow did this all the time.  If that quest npc would give you the silver ! quest then you might be able to have more of a challenge, and the quest reward might actually be good // gained at a time when you actually would want to use it as opposed to buying the drop from a mob 5 levels higher sold by someone else.


By simply allowing all quests to be gained 3 levels earlier in a game like WoW you can change the whole dynamic.

Here is my question for OR -- what if your vision is not even close to 20/20?  I mean I use glasses and glasses are a pain with glasses. 
Somehow I think the measure of a good MMO these days is the level of inconvenience it inflicts upon you.

An SSD is the kind of thing you really want in your next new computer.


It is NOT the kind of thing one generally upgrades to because while you save 20 seconds here and 3 seconds there, it takes SO LONG to break in a computer from scratch.  Getting back those two weeks 5 seconds at a time takes quite a while.

I liked how Everquest 1 added the AAs to the game.  They ranged from a handful of game changing abilities to style changes to circumstantials to small improvements that personalized a character and the way they played.  It did allow a 60/100 player to defeat a 63/0 player.  It also allowed people who constantly grouped for experience to catch some raiders who did not.


Most importantly though it gave some purpose to exp at the level cap.  I hate when exp becomes utterly meaningless.

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