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All Posts by centkin

All Posts by centkin

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923 posts found

Rift was one of those games where it was linear enough that playing real after playing beta couldnt capture the magic of the first run through.  Yes it was a little more polished in the end (at the expense of a lot of fun options) but really it felt like playing the same story a second time.  It also made having an alt in the real game exceedingly painful as it would have meant a third run through. 

These days games are less like a DaoC or a Vanguard where you got into beta early enough that the release version would be far enough removed from your experience initially that it wouldnt hurt things much and it isnt like you can start all the way across the world and for the most part avoid any zones you played in before like an Everquest before expansions.

At any rate -- the question stands:

Is Tera the kind of game where you have a better play experience if you just avoid the beta and buy the game for the headstart or simply the launch?  Or will missing headstart put you "hopelessly behind the curve" as it would in some games or "hopelessly behind the curve and slaughtered -- like it would have in Aion"

Lastly -- will they be opening any new servers for launch that were not open during the headstart?  In that case there is no personal behind -- just a global behind.

Originally posted by Waizer
Originally posted by centkin

I also think there should be rewards for early beta testing.  Or even late beta testing if you manage to distinguish yourself.  I mean if you find and turn in an exploit-class bug you should at the very least get a free copy of the game and an attaboy.  They should keep lists of people who have found and report even things like typos etc so they get into future beta tests earlier rather than later.

If when the game released you got some in game benefit for finding that typo in the second to last beta phase that somehow made it through that far and then was fixed before release, people would treat the betas with more respect.

This is actually a pretty good idea. Atm there are rewards for players who beta "test" and find an exploit and don't report it... they can use that exploit at release and gain xp/money from it.


Perhaps giving free copies of the game away is abit much though, maybe giving ingame items that scale up depending on the amount or severity of the bug/s found would be incentive enough. Nothing that would give a massive advvantage to a player, but maybe smth like:

LVL1: title

LVL2: LVL1 + pet

LVL3: LVL2 + mount

LVL4: LVL3 + ingame item to boost xp for set duration


That being said, its a sad reflection of the current state of many gamers that rewards for finding and reporting bugs are even being mentioned :(

Considering that people shouldnt be finding tons of exploitable level bugs, giving a free copy of the game is not a large issue -- especially because a free digital copy really doesnt cost the company anything.  I say this because lets say you played a game in beta and you found a major issue in the game and you were rewarded with a free copy....  The odds that you are going to stay with that game for a few months is MUCH higher than if you reported a major bug and got the typical "We appreciate your blah blah" form letter. 

It is also a form of viral publicity.  Instead of potentially having someone out there saying "Yeah the game is a buggy mess," you have someone out there saying "This company cares enough about fixing their game that they gave me a free copy."  Lastly that the possibility is out there would make more bugs be reported which is a very good thing.

I was in the beta for vanguard for an entire YEAR...  I also rose to being the tailoring crafter liasion. 

Personally I think beta should be earned not bought.  They should call those late beta megatests what they really are "Stress and Tuning Pre-Play." 

A real beta gives you actual access to the devs or at least one layer removed from the devs where your feedback is actually worthwhile.  They play with the people -- I remember Aradunes thestwian wanger...  This kidding around takes some of the edge off... 

A real beta test should REQUIRE a commitment to finding bugs.  If you are just playing the game as a preview and do not find anything you should be bumped for people who are more willing to spend the time to actually make the game better.

I am one of the people who actually find real bugs even in a tuning pre-play -- I know I found my share in rift and that was thought of as a pretty bug-free experience by most.  You have to mess with the games a little sometimes to make them give up their mistakes.  Try doing things most people wont do but some people could do. 

With the lengthening of the development cycles for games, I do not see why they couldnt have medium sized (say 3 servers) beta tests significantly earlier in the development cycle than we see today.  Let people see the game at a point where they can actually make a difference and find more bugs than geometry issues and typos.  Encourage people to report on things that are unbalancing as well.. 

These days a lot of people will actually HIDE an exploit they find during beta rather than reporting it, hoping to exploit it later.  Finding an exploit class bug and not reporting it should be worth a ban from not only that beta but any other beta run by the company in the future.  Looking for and reporting exploit-class bugs is one of the most important thing you can do as a beta-tester.  I know I found a few in games. 

I also think there should be rewards for early beta testing.  Or even late beta testing if you manage to distinguish yourself.  I mean if you find and turn in an exploit-class bug you should at the very least get a free copy of the game and an attaboy.  They should keep lists of people who have found and report even things like typos etc so they get into future beta tests earlier rather than later.

If when the game released you got some in game benefit for finding that typo in the second to last beta phase that somehow made it through that far and then was fixed before release, people would treat the betas with more respect.

Asheron's Call Three // Horizons Crossover -- Dragons in Dereth....  They could also borrow the Vanguard Diplomacy system but improve it.  I could see having a whole dragon oriented deck...

Aion's a girl and Rift is a guy.


If you go aion just do NOT make a templar...  Aion is a fun game for mages.  Warrior types level SLOW. 

And yes you are more likely to play for a month or two and leave in Rift than you are in Aion.  Two months in Rift and you have been level capped for a couple of  weeks and are wondering if you want to keep doing dailies and dungeon groups for artificial stats to continue on the progression.  Two months in Aion and you aren't even close to the level cap.


I depends a lot upon you -- they are both solid games...

Do you like to hit a monster with a spell back up a bit hit them with another back up a bit hit them with a third then kill them with one melee range spell when they reach you?  If so you want Aion.

Do you hate being ganked in some zones?  Point Rift.

Do you like to craft?  Point Aion.

Is flight something you like?  Point Aion.

Rift is more groupish than Aion is.

Aion takes longer to level in.

Aion has a more pvp endgame and Rift is more a pve endgame.

Monsters require more respect but give you more respect in Aion... 

If you like to collect shineys then point Rift.

If you like to collect crafting compenents then point Aion.


After you quit one game or the other -- at least in my opinion -- the one you would be more likely to give a second chance 12 months later would be Aion.  Rift is the deeper addiction but only for the first part of the game.  You wont see people pine for Rifts endgame generally.


Heh I was just about to suggest Asheron's call -- now I can just second the motion for asheron's call...

It may sound silly but one subtle change from everquest to recent games is that you could hand the guards torches and they would use them.

You could essentially change the theme of a city through gifts.


Another one is merchants not being able to resell goods.  I remember buying hidden items off merchants in everquest in popular areas that were behind trash items...  Stacks of spider silk etc.  And sometimes expensive crafting items or some really decent weapon or armor that for some reason someone sold. 

I remember buying back lots of useful things in asherons call that people sold to merchants.  This was especially true in the old old days when you had to ID items and people just sold stuff they couldnt ID to shop and then it could be OMG wow -- Sword 6 Sols...

I despise the end-game. 

You play through scores of levels and are provided with content and fun...  Then you approach the max level of the game and things change....

Content slows (we are talking a good 8 levels before max level even)

World drops become worthless (often this happens about 15 levels before max level -- At level 40 you can get a solo lucky drop that is very close to the best currently available -- at level 70 you can't get a drop better than a trash drop on a raid.)

You acquire all the skills your character will have (again this often happens before max level)

You have been everywhere geographically (I have usually explored the entire world significantly before max level)

Quests dry up

Playstyles narrow (Lets say you soloed monsters 6 levels above your level in a slow manner...  You were set up to be able to do it in whatever game... Well when the highest level monster is equal to your level then you are stuck killing those.  Sometimes there are no solo monsters in games even 2 levels BELOW the level of the characters...  This hurts the solo tank or solo healer more than it does a solo dps who is built to be able to carve through legions of lower monsters)


Even if there is a level cap, I think they should always have a few areas where monsters are well above the level of the characters -- even DEADLY so...  If the level cap is say 60 -- there should be zones where the monsters are upwards of level 70 in all flavors.  They shouldnt stop at level 58 for a level 60 cap.


At any rate I typically find that I get to the endgame and it ends up the end of the game for me. 

This process is happening right now in vindictus...  Fun game but at the end it ends up a big farming session.  Pretty much all the themeparks end up as a big farming session at the endgame. 

About the only themepark I was able to stick with for raids in a fairly big way was the original everquest -- at least they set the game up so the MAJORITY of the content was at max level. AAs to gain and lots of zones to progress through...  In fact that was a constant complaint by some that so much of the content was only seeable by a small few who were able to get that far.  At least EQ had some avenues of advancement at max level and more than a smattering of dungeons to run over and over and over and over.

Warhammer was the only one I really stayed for PVP(RVR) for a longish period.  Only thing that really booted me from that game was a "bad" server merge where I ended up being vastly outnumbered all the time for no fun.

Oh well -- The most recent casualty looks to be Vindictus...  I had a fun romp up to level 69.4 but essentially I have been everywhere and the quests are done and I dont want to spend large amounts of time and money getting mega endgame equipment (already have 12k/7k -- getting the extra k to be able to go on boats to run the same zones over and over isnt really my cup of tea).

I think a better question is:

"When did innovation stop being rewarded?"

People seem to say they want one thing then go out and buy something else. 

And there is still some innovation..

I mean the current game I am playing is vindictus.  You get to trash the environment around you.  There is no targetting per-say. The controls are simple. It is very different in a lot of ways from mainstream MMOs.


There is a statement that seems to apply to every industry.  It is not the innovator that makes the money.  It is the person who picks up the pieces when the innovator fails, improves on the product, makes it more glitzy and then markets it correctly who makes the money.

D&D 4th edition was D&D Bob...  If you want to be a little more charitable D&D Milleneum Edition... 

Pathfinder came out under the 3.x rules and held a lot of the playerbase.

Thing was WOTC thought everyone would move over and they could get rid of the SRD from 3.x that all of the people loved but the suits at WOTC says loses them too much control and money.

They had to make it "different enough" essentially and they certainly accomplished that measure.


We can only hope they got enough of a bloody nose to release a D&D XP.  If they do then it could be a good thing.

Yep nintendo power glove -- I get those traded in to me every once in a while.

Sometimes I think people would want the venom interface.  A little bit of space goo that fits your whole body like a glove.  Mind contol unfortunately included.

Virtual boy is the other thing...  Those units actually were supposed to be walk and play -- but they decided to make them mounted etc for safety purposes..  I guess 100 lawyers go together -- did a collective scream and said "If you have people mindlessly working a device like that in public they will fall down open manholes and sue you -- cue cell phones.

Do NOT start on the mainland...

There are things you get from the island that are PERMANENT and scale up with you that you will never be able to get if you start on the mainland.

You might not regret it now -- but when you are level 45 and do not have said items then you will regret it -- and it will be too late.

Now if you want to start an alt and just do the first few levels for the lore and then delete it -- knock yourself out -- there is a lot of lore that most people do not see with the newbie island -- but you will regret if you actually play a world started character.


Originally posted by Swollen_Beef

i think the point is that people are retards when it comes to finances.

$.30 is nothing. i could find that in my couch. But over and over and over, adds up.

But we like to think in the now. Much like iTunes pricing. $.99, nothing really.

but 10,000 songs later...

Ding Ding Ding -- There we go....  Someone gets it...

It exploits the same impulse in reverse that unsubscribing to something with small monthly payments does.  IE if you have something that costs you $3 per month and it takes 2 hours to unsubscribe from it -- many people will never go through the effort.

30 cents falls very nicely into the category of "change I found in the couch" -- it is so very easy to rationalize a 30 cent payment...  It is also very easy to 30 cent yourself into real money. 

This is why it is so slick -- it gets people who would never usually use the cash store into the door with a tiny amount and then you add up enough tinys and get to real money. 

When I saw the -- 30 cent thing for the first time when I died -- it just was like "wow -- this is just amazingly well thought out to generate money."

The slickness is not that you HAVE TO...  The slickness is that it is dangled right in front of you after you die...  Even if you have no graces, it allows you to micropurchase that single grace to keep on playing.  It is an amount small enough to get people to just clicky the button. 

This is not to say whether the option is a good thing or a bad thing -- it is just the kind of thing (especially if you say ran the dungeon 3 times -- the first time you got it down to 25% and died -- the second time you got it to 3% and died -- the third time you got it to 20% and you decide -- yeah I am paying the 30 cents -- or if you then got it to 0.3% so close but yet so far) that will draw people into buying it even if they never thought they would.

As I said slick.

Other thing is it is an FTP thing that doesnt give the same kind of advantage as a +20 damage cash shop item.  If you play the game well, you might never use it. 


As for me -- I very rarely use it -- 4 times total through level 57 -- and most of those I got free from the christmas event.(I still have 2 free graces and 2 free party graces from that).

Actually -- I don't know...

Lets say Everquest never existed...

In the early days of MMORPGs it would have been Asheron's Call vs Ultima Online.

Yes some themepark might have come along, but something tells me without Everquest (no matter how good and addictive a game it was) there would have been far more sandboxes made.

DAOC would certainly have been different and a lot more innovative.

Sometimes removing a good thing from the tapestry of time can end up improving things overall.  And sometimes some of the worst possibilities could have been necessary...  IE sometimes you need one thing to cause another thing and that second thing is really bad but the first thing may have been the best at the time.  But without the former you have a much better latter.

Actually the death penalty in Vindictus is really kind of slick.

You spend 20 minutes running a dungeon to the end...

Then you are presented with a boss monster.

Lets say you need this run for a questline or to open another dungeon....

You fight the monster down to like 20% health and you die.

You are then presented with a choice....

Either you lose all your progress and you can start over again *OR* for just 30 cents you can come back up with full health and continue from there...

Thing is -- it is so easy just to spend the 30 cents and stand back up when you mentally compare it with doing the battle all over again.  And when you think about it -- mentally -- it is a really "easy" impulse purchase vs your time.


This also comes into play with raids...

Lets say you spent an hour trying to get a raid together -- and your raid wipes just before killing the monster...

Now you have the choice of -- do you want to finish it out for 70 cents -- or do you want to start all over and probably lose half the people in your raid and have to get more people etc.  Plus then only one person has to spend it.


It just seems so slick to me -- I mean I cant see when my time is not worth the 30 cents -- so long as it isnt something where every battle requires that to beat it -- I can see a lot of people ponying up the 30 cents often enough to fund ftp games.  Of course vindictus also has tons of other ways to take your money -- but I can see the death penalty being copied in a lot of games in the future.

Crystal Saga.  Actually went fairly far with it before I figured -- If I am trying not to play then why am I playing?  But there was something really odd having it control your character and you sort of metagaming it...  You get several hours of botted play per day if you play your cards right in the game.

Yes corpse runs stank -- and they always stank...  People argued over that from day one.

But losing levels and heck levels were a completely different story.

Having levels NOT progress linearly changed your strategies... 

IE you are 39th in a normal level -- you fight in X way.

Now you are 40th in a level that lasts 2.5 times as long...  This does affect your play.

You ding 41st ... Now you are in the most interesting old level type of all of them...  The DEATH PENALTY in the level after one of those long levels was HUGE because it was based off the exp in the prior level.

If you died in level 41 you lost like 2 full bars of exp, very often dropping you right back into level 40.  The levels after the long levels were the levels where you had to really carefully plan your play.  You did NOT want to die in a level after a x5 or x0 level.


Levels having themes could be a good addition to games...

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