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All Posts by centkin

All Posts by centkin

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822 posts found
Originally posted by exhell
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk

The problem with most MMO's is that crafting is a bit pointless, you get the best gear from raids/bosses.

The only ones that get it right are the ones where crafted items are the best available, or even the only items available. SWG, pre ToA DAoC, EVE to name a few.


I actually like crafting but only if it's worth the time and effort. Most of the time it isn't.

I have a problem with your thinking. First, why do you need the best available gear in the game, envy much? What skill does it take to craft, really? Pulease, lets be realistic here. Crafters should only really be able to maybe augment "The best gear", for someone that actually did something for it.

What has to happen for crafted gear to be worthwhile in current MMOs is crafting needs to be made a group affair.

Have one person on the bellows, a head weaponsmith, a support weaponsmith, a couple of enchanters, and a foreman all at the same time.

Complications can happen at any time and it is the job of the foreman to help decide how to deal with them then whoever it is delegated to to solve it.  IE a complication comes up -- there are two ways to deal with it -- you can either have the guy at the bellows have to keep a higher or much more consistent temperature or you can have the weaponsmiths have to counter the item losing quality each turn.

Anyone can mess up in their role and take the item down in quality.  For a raid-level piece of equipment it might take 15 minutes of everyone doing their job without much error(with few errors like in golf -- you drive into the rough, you have to do a great shot instead of a good shot to get the ball onto the green), pricy/hard to get components, and some luck.


"learn to play" is the number one one for me.  It is used to justify all kinds of bad design in games.


In early games where crafting took some effort, I often did it because it was an area of the game where I could be THE BEST literally with nobody else even close.  Being the highest rank tailor in old everquest was something special. 


I didn't do it because it was easy, I did it because it was hard.

Actually the biggest problem with stealth is how it throws a monkey-wrench into class balancing.  Any class with stealth tends to get nailed balance-wise in any battle where they do not have the initial opening.  You end up with say 2/3rds the damage and equal armor to say the caster classes to compensate for the initial 5x strike.  This makes rogue classes stink on raids and oftentimes are not wanted AT ALL in serious groups outside of pvp. 

So yes, I am in favor of significantly reducing the effectiveness of the stealth backstab gank thing, if only to make rogues less of a one-trick pony.

Originally posted by iridescence

There's a fine line here "innovation" sounds good but the majority of new ideas are in fact flawed on some level while tried and true ideas usually  got that way for a reason. An MMO committed to completely original ideas would likely have to scrap its design a few times which considering the cost of MMOs is not something that's easy to afford. Then there's the way the Internet is which is very harsh on things which aren't absolutely perfect the first time they come out. Look at how often the word "fail" is thrown around even over minor and frivolous complaints.


I think games like GW2 have the right idea of taking a solid known foundation and tweaking it (even though I don't like a lot of the specific changes to the formula that GW2 made at least they tried).


Actually this reminds me a ton of Vanguard.  They scrapped whole designs several times during the beta process.  Things were completely different early on in it.

I remember a point where I was unsure of whether or not I wanted to play Vindictus anymore...


Sooo I took my +11 weapon and I enchanted it without safety.


If it broke, I was done with the game. 

Originally posted by Kyleran

Due to graphics and other technical limitations these titles have changed to be MOG's, Multi-player online games at least in the current instance or "megaserver" shard you find yourself in.

Might be a lot of people in game, but you'll likely never see them.

EVE has low graphical requirements so they can eek out some really large numbers in a small area, but complaints about the slide show it becomes for most have always plagued the big fights.

If you think about it, do you really want to be involved in a 5K vs 5K player fight, the chaos on your screen would be tremendous, and very difficult to process what was going on. 

Likely you would focus on the action in near proximity to you and screen out the rest, which isn't a whole lot different then some of the tech MMO's try to employ these days.



Sure, I could go for a 5k vs 5k battle.  Heck that was what the fortress battles in warhammer were supposed to be like.  It had issues at 500 vs 500, but even there, if they could have managed it, it would have been a great experience.


5k vs 5k is closer to the way an actual warfront works. 

Well, this will probably reverse the whole "no occulus rift for minecraft" thing.

The whole -- one tank per group but only one or two tanks per raid is a major problem with the design of the games.  It really does make tanks have problems bridging that gap from a group tank to a raid tank.  The fact that raid guilds tend to funnel ALL of the good tank equipment onto their primary tanks while DPS gear tends to be spread among the dps players makes it even harder for a tank to break out.  This is especially bad if the tank is coming into a game late.  If a tank ever needs to "catch up" they are not needed.


Really, I think there should be a spell that is for raids that combines say 4 tanks into one combined health pool.  They work together but are one.  This would make raiding a lot more interesting for tanks and allow some interesting mechanics.

Actually one of the saddest things to hear as a tank in some games is "We would rather go with 5 DPS because it is faster." 

It should be progressive.  A few slaps on the wrist then a progressive transfer of remaining playtime from the griefer to the aggrieved. 

Okay, you watched the party of 6 work their way to the final boss and then trained a bunch of monsters on them to kill them...  I guess you just lost a week of playtime and they get 1 day 3 hours each added to theirs.

You decided to get your hahas spawn camping this poor guy -- 3 days lost on your playtime -- 3 days added to his.


A ban loses players time off their account...  So why not just take the time away instead?

I don't think ANYONE likes lockboxes in MMOs.  Okay maybe a very small number of people.  I would rather pay $20 for an item than a 1% chance per 20 cents.  In the former, I am going to get my item.  In the latter, I can never be sure, and after I have spent $60 and am angry, I am just as far away from getting the item as when I started. 

The other thing is, any slot machine can be rigged.  You can set a $100 value on an item and nobody will buy it, but if you lockbox it and give a 0.1% chance per 10 cents, some people will win and advertise for you.  People will spend more money than they ever would otherwise and probably not even get the item.

Companies use lockboxes because they work, not because people like them.

I am surprised companies do not use insured lockboxes more often.  You are guaranteed to get the item after buying 100 things say if you failed to get it through the random process.

What I dislike is when a game provides you with trees (like Rift did) and then proceeds to nerf out any interesting combination that you could come up with.  The weird combo of A + B + c actually works out -- so lets nerf the synergy between A and B so it stops working.  Then you manage a + B + c which still kind of works so they nerf how a works with B.  All of a sudden you have a million choices but only 3 work. 

Hmm...  Lets see...


Diplomacy as originally intended from Vanguard.

PVP Battlegrounds from Warhammer.

Loot system from Asheron's Call.

Race choices from Horizons (yes I like being able to play a dragon).

Raids from Everquest

Storyline from Secret World but in a fantasy setting.

Frontiers/world PVP from DaoC.

Classes/AAs from Everquest.

Combat system from Tera.


Originally posted by Paladrink

I really doubt this poll... or its filled with trolls (not surprised considering this is

27% healers!? 24% tanks!? so 51% of the total people plays the 2 most uncommon and hard to get classes on the trinity? cough... bs...


What you are finding out is that the typical poster here and the typical player of an MMO are not the same group of people.  It does make polls like this one skewed.  In essence you are asking the hardcore, very interested in the games, segment of the population.  Of course we would tend to gravitate towards classes that actually have a use in the endgame.  If you were to ask those who are not registered on any of these boards and just play, the number of tanks and healers would be far less represented.

In games where a healer isn't a glass canon, I tend to play a healer.  They need to be able to not be utterly worthless solo somehow.  I don't like the cloth caster type healer. 

In games where a tank can actually do SOME damage, and not be 1/5th the speed of a dps class solo, and in games where they don't foot the entire bill for armor repair in a group, I play a tank.

If the game does the worst of the two above tropes, then I play DPS.  I also play DPS if I am "tired," and the MMO is probably not one that I am going to be spending years in.  PVP can also push me to DPS if tanks and healers are worthless in PVP (if you are a tank you can never close range and/or are ignored for the flea biter you are, and if you are a healer you will be slaughtered first without mercy and never get off any heals) and PVP is an important part of the game.

Originally posted by Alders
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by PioneerStew

Vast resources go into developing an mmo world for players to level through, but a month after release these worlds are normally almost entirely empty.  Most modern mmo's seem to be designed to remove players from the world and put them swiftly into the next zone or a hub town.  

Says who?

Lots of MMOs ditch the open world, and focus on the other stuff you discussed. Games like Marvel Heroes, LoL, WoT, ....

I suppose WoW is like that because of legacy reasons. Blizz mistakenly thought that, when they first created wow, that the open world is very important, and later found that LFR/LFD, instanced content is what is popular.



Tired of saying this but leave that MOBA garbage out of my fucking MMO's.  Thanks.

The reason LFR/LFD is so popular is because there's no reason to go out into the world.  This is a fundamental flaw with instances.  While they're great for allowing every player to see the content without having to compete for it, it also makes the world obsolete.

There definitely is something to having raids be outside or in dungeons not instances.  I remember the whole first in force thing where you had guild members traveling the world looking for the spawns of targets then trying to beat anyone else to it.

Technically instances are being done so they can strictly limit the number of people who can engage.  I liked it when you could bring 50 people to a raid or 30 or even 17 depending upon how much challenge you wanted and the abilities of your players.

Originally posted by Silverbranch

The Achiever joins a Party.

The Party starts to zone in, The Achiever first in.  He promptly starts running down the corridor ahead of the entire group who's not totally zoned in yet, has the first pack pulled, and is wailing away with AoE's, etc.

The Group finally completes zoning in, strung out in sequence based on zone in, running for The Achiever who's in trouble, but not dead yet, mobs running every which way chasing him/her.

The Group bails The Achiever out, the pack manages to die, yet just before the last mob is dead, and prior to any recovering heals or group buffs The Achiever is already RACING to the next pack.

Rinse and repeat through the whole run.

This is great suckage in games today, that challenges are CALIBRATED to encourage this.  To discourage necessary Teamwork.  It's encouraged when we see event rewards tiered by DPS / Damage Done and/or with in-game reports showing "#1" as most DPS done.

The Achiever, in his mind, was "achieving".  Yet he/she did so at the expense of everyone else around them.  So, did they really Achieve anything?

This is what I think the poster you responded to meant, and why I think your estimation of an 'Achiever", in context with fast farming through content, isn't targeted well I think.  It's not real (in the context of this convo).

In the end, if games are going to cater to feeding ez-mode farm running through stuff, instead of actually CALIBRATING challenges to require . . . actually achieving something through skill or strategy or smart tactics (instead of dumb race forward fap-spamming), it's never going to change.

The mistake that the party made here was in bailing out "the achiever."  Anyone who runs off and pulls before the rest of the party zones in deserves to die, and hopefully the game has at least some level of death penalty. 

Any time someone decides to unilaterally control the pace like that tends to be last in line for heals from the healer.  Oh I am sorry, I was focusing on the tank.  IE the one who is supposed to be getting hit by the monsters.

If people just let this kind of player die, then they would stop doing the behavior.  When it rewards them with a highest DPS reward while having everyone else have a bad time, they are encouraged the other way.

Note: this assumes you are not in a rush group that has specifically said this was the style you would be using.  In a dungeon on complete farm status, chain pulls are the most efficient way to handle it.

The over-weening under-represented class -- Healers or Tanks are rare in game X.  This character expects to be 5 levels lower than the rest of the group or he will not play.  He expects extra loot, extra everything, and do not ever insult the ego.


The thief -- Ninja looters.  People who put the 5 items up in a row on the AH with 1 gold 1 gold 1 plat 1 gold 1 gold hoping you botch.  Oh I just needed boss three in this instance -- cya suckers.


The exploiter/hacker -- You mean you don't use hack07 to phase through walls?  I guess you deserve to die.  And woe to you if he ends up in your group and gets you in trouble.


The griefer -- This can be the guy who kills you over and over and over again in a pvp mmo, or the person who breaks your spawn camp or runs through you on purpose with a train of monsters to get you killed, or ruins your world raid.


The gold-spammer -- flooding your mailbox with gold seller things making you not receive the mail you wanted, or the chat with spam, etc.


The on-call who doesn't say he is on-call -- Sure I can heal for the raid.  Oh, I have to go now (but we are up to the boss) -- sorry [disconnect].


The obnoxious voicechatter -- Baby screams in the background -- expletives fly from the mic -- innuendo and worse.


The MMO snob.  Oh, you don't use mumble -- I guess you aren't welcome in the group.  You need to respec to this exact spec or we do not want you.  We don't want healer class 3 because only healer class 1 works here despite your protests to the contrary.



The big problem I have with gear grinds is how very linear it is.  You get your tier 1 gear and your tier 2 and your tier 34 gear ...  Up until those levels, you can choose to focus on different stats which allowed classes to play in various ways with different weaknesses.  Then you get to the endgame and your gear is a specific set with no choice whatsoever. 

In earlier games you could still choose to work towards different goals through gear.  In say Everquest different raids dropped different acceptable items that you could choose to wear in different slots.  They weren't tiered.  Variety meant something.  At times, there were items back several expansions even that were superior in some way that you might want.

Of course the best in that regard was Asheron's Call's loot system where the gear was free-form. 

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