this announcement doesnt sit well with me... considering between digital and box preorders there were supposed to be around 1.5-2million PREORDERS... meaning more now that launch is on....

Originally posted by Vhaln

Originally posted by Ashlinde

im pretty sure every time i hit a key in DAOC to do a skill, something happened as a result, typically right away. played the game for years, i think i would know.

 

Not exactly.  DAOC would attack immediately, if you weren't currently attacking.  If you were in mid-swing though, it would queue the attack to go off next.  It even had backup attack, so that you could press two keys, and they'd both queue - such as a reactionary, and if the reactionary failed, the regular attack would go off, instead.  That wouldn't work if attacks went off as soon as you made the keypress.

 

That said, I actually liked the system.  We're only talking a queue of like half a second, and I think it worked pretty well.  I especially liked how well blocking, parrying, and reacting worked in that game.  Because of the way animations worked, they were able to give each attack, or block, a visceral feel of impact, instead of blurring it all together like most MMOs these days do.

what?

what you said, and what i said.... are COMPLETELY different.

i said, i press a key, i perform an action.

u said, i press a key, and if im already doing an action, i queue it.

how does what you said have any point to make in regards to what i said?

if i am in the middle of an action, i have ALREADY pressed a key, and i am doing it... like i said in my post. if i press another key while this is occuring, it is queued due to global cooldown, just like in wow, and goes off after GCD is over, just like in wow.

the only thing that really seperated DAOCs combat system from WOWs was its situational skills, like you said with backup attacks. Otherwise, they were relatively the same mechanics. press a key, trigger a skill, press another key, queue a skill....

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by Drachonis

Wow, looking at the forums, and the comments on metacrtic, are we playing the same game?  I just reached level 30 last night, with around 5 days play time.  I've had some extra time for the holidays, and I have been sinking it into SW:ToR.  So far, this game is exactly what I have been looking for.  Amazing, fun, engaging, STAR WARS... I wish SW:ToR was "the game"  for all you mmo-less tramps running amok on the forums, posting your negitivity.  Your game will come, or not... regardless you all will keep bitching  :P

it wont, because the ones that are complaining about SWTOR are the jaded section of gamers that really arent gamers anymore, and will never be happy with any product.

i have come to the conclusion that there are a LOT of "gamers" out there that have actually grown out of games at this point, and thus can never be satisfied. they WANT to keep playing games but dont realize that they just arent fun for them anymore. Thus, with their years of experience playing games, they think they can descend on forums and proclaim every game they have played horrible because they had no fun with it.

my suggestion, get a book, start skiing, get some exercise, start cooking, or find some other hobby that makes you happy, because gaming clearly isnt it if you continue to troll forums and tell everyone how every game is horrible.

Hehe.

Amen to that.

There's a difference between critizising and not-enjoying. I'd dare to critizise SWTOR quite a bit, but I still enjoy playing it. I've played Cataclysm and enjoyed it while heavily critizising it.

M

i agree, there is a difference... i have said so regularly. however, there is a difference between criticism, and what you have done.

what you have done, is call a game bad. that is not crticism, that is a finalized opinion. by saying all there is to SWTOR minus the cutscenes and story is a generic MMO without much merit, you are finalizing your opinion.

criticism would be "i dont like this because of these reasons." a finalized opinion is "this is bad, i dont like it." fundimental difference in the two statements.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

 

---

Originally posted by Ashlinde

---

And yes, you're right, cutscenes and combat dynamics stand out, but are these two enough to justify a stellar rating? Are they enough to justify a stellar rating taking into account the subpar graphical performance (and I'm not talking about style, I'm talking about shadow draw distance, object count, lacking AA, lacking HD texture options) the relatively low number of open space world-zones, the to-date mediocre crafting depth? 
Don't get me wrong, it's very far from a bad game. I'd consider a 85% rating completely reasonable. It's fun, it works. But it's just not quite the dam-breaker other games were at their time.
M

---

dear god.... it is true and you know it.
there is nothing new about skyrim's "dynamic" dragon fights.... dynamic events have been in games for a loooooong time. same goes for conquerable territories, this has been done time and time again in dozens of games, online and off. Why is skyrim so popular? same reason as WOW... it takes a bunch of stuff that has been done in other games dozens of times, puts them in one game, and does them REALLY well.
nothing WOW did at release in terms of gameplay was unique. dozens of MMOs before it had seamless game worlds (Ultima, EQ, Asherons Call, DAOC....) and i would not BY ANY MEANS have called vanilla wows combat "fast paced". it was SLOW. slow and methodical. vanilla wow had some of the slowest combat seen in an MMO since EQ, which is appropriate considering it was designed around the same principles. what it did that made it so popular was polish and accessibility. no MMO before it was so well designed and easy to get into.
 

---

Hyperbole. Before WoW it was overly acceptable that when you hit an action bar key that you had to wait to see the result, or it fired off without affecting the on screen animation in the slightest. EQ2 was really note of that where the mo-cap action had nothing to do with the keys being pressed in combat.

WoW snapped it up and it's became the standard.

Trying to say otherwise is an outlandish and foolish lie.

im pretty sure every time i hit a key in DAOC to do a skill, something happened as a result, typically right away. played the game for years, i think i would know.

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

(...)

(...)

if you skip every single dialogue and cutscene then yeah, you can probably hit 50 in less than 80 hours. HOWEVER, you would be missing the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME.

(...)

so basically what you just said is this:

"take away the main gameplay mechanic that the devs put their entire focus on, which is very well done and keeps me playing, and you are left with a very standard MMO"

do you not see a problem with this?

example:

take the open world out of skyrim. you are left with a very generic adventure game.

take the raiding out of wow. you are left with a very generic MMO

take the story out of final fantasy. you are left with a very generic RPG (a lot of proof of that recently)

take the multiplayer out of Call of Duty. you are left with a very generic FPS.

Finally:

take the dialogue, story, and cutscenes out of SWTOR. you are left with a pretty generic MMO

THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY GAME. each game has a specific focus and design choice that drives the entire experience. it is what takes a game from being just a standard game to being something truely special. in TORs case, it is the story and cutscenes.

you cant have coke with the flavor, you cant have a jet without the engines, you cant have a toyota without brakes that fail and cause people to die.... OK, im pretty sure my point has been made.

That's not true.

Skyrim, as an example, had a lot of features that made it unique (dynamic dragon fights, concept of shouts/words of power, conquerable territory/cities), on top of Elder Scrolls that are unique anyways (1st person, skillset leveling, thievery, etc.pp.)

WoW, as another example, featured at its release a large, seamless game world (unique at the time), easy accesibility/soloability (unique at the time), responsive, fast-paced combat (unique at the time, even DaoC was more sluggish back then).

And yes, you're right, cutscenes and combat dynamics stand out, but are these two enough to justify a stellar rating? Are they enough to justify a stellar rating taking into account the subpar graphical performance (and I'm not talking about style, I'm talking about shadow draw distance, object count, lacking AA, lacking HD texture options) the relatively low number of open space world-zones, the to-date mediocre crafting depth? 

Don't get me wrong, it's very far from a bad game. I'd consider a 85% rating completely reasonable. It's fun, it works. But it's just not quite the dam-breaker other games were at their time.

M

dear god.... it is true and you know it.

there is nothing new about skyrim's "dynamic" dragon fights.... dynamic events have been in games for a loooooong time. same goes for conquerable territories, this has been done time and time again in dozens of games, online and off. Why is skyrim so popular? same reason as WOW... it takes a bunch of stuff that has been done in other games dozens of times, puts them in one game, and does them REALLY well.

nothing WOW did at release in terms of gameplay was unique. dozens of MMOs before it had seamless game worlds (Ultima, EQ, Asherons Call, DAOC....) and i would not BY ANY MEANS have called vanilla wows combat "fast paced". it was SLOW. slow and methodical. vanilla wow had some of the slowest combat seen in an MMO since EQ, which is appropriate considering it was designed around the same principles. what it did that made it so popular was polish and accessibility. no MMO before it was so well designed and easy to get into.

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by AdamTM

They gave DragonAge 2 a 94 so this makes perfect sense.

I agree with them that its on the same level as DA2

yeah, and DA2 was actually a great game despite the recycled environments. crazy huh?

No it wasn't. It was riddled with performance issues, objectively lacking in playtime and content and not innovating on any of its prequels' concepts. Moreover, it reduced many of them in quantity and variety (less dialogie options, less group options, less crafting variety).

now you could stretch arguments to say "but it was actually a good thing to condense all this into fast paced action" and I would probably sigh and shrug for ignoring all usually applied quality criteria for roleplaying games. 

M

hmmmm, i played it fully and enjoyed it... had no performance issues and i even had an nvidia card, put well over 50 hours into the game which is pretty standard for an RPG, obviously had quite a bit of content considering it took over 50 hours to beat, and it took some of the mechanics of DAO and made them a lot better (better combat, better AI, better pacing, admittedly... worse companions IMO) while others were basically the same as before.

just based on your two posts for far.... im going to go with my opinion being a hell of a lot more valid than yours considering i have provided examples of actual personal experience while you have provided none. i doubt you have played either DA2 or SWTOR.

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by Ashlinde

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

(...)

(...)

if you skip every single dialogue and cutscene then yeah, you can probably hit 50 in less than 80 hours. HOWEVER, you would be missing the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME.

That's so funny, because it unintentionally confirms the main complaint of reasonable critics: the game is stock full of Dragon Age-esque cutscenes and voiceovers, but aside from that, it's an extremely standard fare MMO. "click->tab->1,2,3->Kill mutated lizards 2/10"

That's not bad, but what keeps me playing personally is JUST the very dynamic, nicely animated combat and the aformentioned cutscenes. Everything else screams "yawn"... 

So yea, the game is all nice and dandy, but so thoroughly standard that universal praise and extremely high ratings seem a bit ridiculous. Which does btw not mean that you can't have a blast. I had a blast in Fallen Earth which is - objectively - a game riddled with facepalm-flaws.

M

so basically what you just said is this:

"take away the main gameplay mechanic that the devs put their entire focus on, which is very well done and keeps me playing, and you are left with a very standard MMO"

do you not see a problem with this?

example:

take the open world out of skyrim. you are left with a very generic adventure game.

take the raiding out of wow. you are left with a very generic MMO

take the story out of final fantasy. you are left with a very generic RPG (a lot of proof of that recently)

take the multiplayer out of Call of Duty. you are left with a very generic FPS.

Finally:

take the dialogue, story, and cutscenes out of SWTOR. you are left with a pretty generic MMO

THIS HAPPENS WITH EVERY GAME. each game has a specific focus and design choice that drives the entire experience. it is what takes a game from being just a standard game to being something truely special. in TORs case, it is the story and cutscenes.

you cant have coke with the flavor, you cant have a jet without the engines, you cant have a toyota without brakes that fail and cause people to die.... OK, im pretty sure my point has been made.

what the hell, lets have a poll on this:

Originally posted by AdamTM

They gave DragonAge 2 a 94 so this makes perfect sense.

I agree with them that its on the same level as DA2

yeah, and DA2 was actually a great game despite the recycled environments. crazy huh?

Originally posted by BlackUhuru

As if this is fact lol !!

 

"But that’s all speculation for now. What I know for certain is that it takes close to 200 hours to level a character to 50".

 

What he should have said was "What i know for certain is that it could take as little as 58 hours to level a character to 50".

{mod edit}

if you skip every single dialogue and cutscene then yeah, you can probably hit 50 in less than 80 hours. HOWEVER, you would be missing the ENTIRE POINT OF THE GAME.

Originally posted by Loekii

Do the Cyborg Implants become 3D, rather than painted 'tattoos' in the cinematics?

from what i have seen, i wouldnt exactly call them 3D but they have bump mapping, and look A LOOOOOOT better in cutscenes.

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by select20

I honetly haven't noticed and i've always been a big critic of graphical stuff like this. I've been too immersed in the game. Having much more fun that I though I would. Haven't enjoyed my first hours in an MMO like i am now since Eq1 and my first time playing WoW back in 2005.

 

Bottom line, if you dont' like it, don't play it. Now, was that so hard?

because a lot of us have been waiting years for this game perhaps? cause there isn't anything out there right now thats worth playing or hasn't been around for a long while? perhaps because the no high res issue is a bug they have said is being worked on. I really don't understand why people think just because anyone says one critical thing over a game you automatically don't like the game

exactly, you can like a game and still be critical of it.... those two things are not mutually exclusive.

i happen to really love SWTOR. it has gotten me interested in MMOs again after about 6 years of not caring about them. however, the bug with the high texture setting needs to be a priority fix... it shouldnt have even launched with it being a problem.

so that is like 100 yes and maybe 3 no? pretty sure retention is not going to be an issue for a while....

Originally posted by Possum

compared to yesterday, the posivive scores increased while the negative ones decreased noticeable. about +/- 30 or more.

maybe that is because more people are actually enjoying the game?

Originally posted by Purutzil

Originally posted by Axxar

It's a really great MMO. Like any game it has some flaws, but in this case they are few and minor. Not something that detracts from all the really awesome stuff.

Just because I feel like 'trolling' I guess or being critical, mind defining what that 'awesome stuff' is? Outside the bigger story focus, I just didn't see anything that makes me turn my head and go "oh, original", curious as to what your defining as awesome.

so to you... the only thing that can be described as awesome is something that is original. those are YOUR words. awesome = original....

voice over, companion system, story focus, actual choices that shape your character, mod system for gear.... all are integral parts of the game, and all are fairly original for MMOs.

your correlation between awesome and original is idiotic however, but that is beside the fact.

standard for all pay to play MMOs. when you put in your product code, they make you set up a sub plan with a paid time card or a CC. dont even try to lie and say they dont, i have played dozens of MMOs in the last 12 or so years that have.

Sith Marauder and... the going is tough. i will say that Marauders/Sentinels have a long way to go before they are even remotely effective as damage dealers. They are the only classes that are PURE damage (no tank, no heal) and yet they are outdamaged by almost every other class. most of this comes from the fact that Ataru Form is complete garbage, and almost the entire carnage tree is dedicated to it, which makes that tree worthless. it does not trigger even half as often as it should, and the damage gain is just bogus. you get maybe 150 additional damage (at lvl 30) with all ataru form talents every 5-6 skills used. in a word... "pathetic"

rage tree is some sort of weird smash and run tree, designed completely around leaping into a gorup, triggering smash, and then running away.... as a talent tree it makes no sense at all. it combines movement impairing talents with damage reduction and AOE... it is a complete mess. best i can assume is it is a poor attempt at a tanking tree.

best damage a marauder/sentinel can put out is from bleeds (annihilation tree)... and bleeds just arent that great for PVP. you want pure burst damage in PVP, and for that BH and trooper reigns supreme. Im sure their raid effectiveness will be mediocre to good thanks to what looks to be decent sustained damage, but for now their PVP effectiveness is poor.

all of this isnt even mentioning the lore inconsistency with a "bleed spec" for someone with a lightsaber.... by the very nature of lightsabers being made from a laser... wounds inflicted by them would not bleed. at the very least, it should be called "burn" as that would atleast make SOME sense.

so this is a problem for "everyone" or just people with the beta client? check this thread out:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=384874#post384874

a lot people seem to think maybe it is only a problem for people that are using the beta client from thanksgiving weekend.

seriously nobody has noticed this? come on, it is a pretty extreme difference in texture quality.

Originally posted by nickster29

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

wait....weren't people here just crying the other day about not being let in all at the same time???

 

Wait, but, weren't the people here supporting the tiered access system saying it was to avoid this exact problem?  So, why is it happening now?

 

Actually, the tiered early acces could be the major problem.  As more and more people get access, they may be trying to get into the "full" servers because their friends or guilds (that got access earlier than them) are on that server, thus ignoring any of the new low population servers.

ding ding.... we have a winner!

+1 for this post

the tiered access just made this problem a LOT worse. now people that want in with their guild are adding on to completely full servers, increasing queue times. If people had just been given access, guilds would have avoided full servers and rolled on less populated ones, therefore spreading population out much better.