Not to favor anything one way or another, but the whole topic in the first place AOCtester seems to be quite a bit on the "lacking understanding" side.

Yes the game has issues to deal with, yes the game has things that need polishing. This game also had one of the best launches in a while and quite a bit of the game is great.

So all in all, why wouldn't they make that comment, even WoW still works on polish in things they had made and introduce. When was the last patch for that game where an ability wasn't tweaked?

Polishing, fixing, and tweaking the game happens forever in an MMO, so to take a comment like that and assume anything other than what it says is, for lack of a nicer way of saying it, stupid.

Unless the game dies the first week of release, it won't be the biggest flop in MMO history, just the most recent, which really won't mean anything more than people are comfortable with doing the same thing as always without even looking for a change of scenery.

Not picking on any game in particular, just picking on human nature to find something and stick with it without even realizing how much of a routine it has become versus down and dirty fun.

I must concede one point, latency will be murder until faster connections and better systems become standard...

Just want to note, if you are buying any modern shooter (With certain exceptions like HL2...except not really because most anyone who gets HL2 is also opting for TF2 and CSS...) tends to be looking for the multi-player aspects.

Mainly because...a few factors.

One - "the story tends to suck" - This has been an issue for a long time with most shooter type games or FP games. The game play and fancy gadgets are put to the front, mostly because people who play these games like the action and the involvement, and as such don't pay as much attention to why they are doing things as much ans how they are doing them. There are obvious exceptions to this rule, but for the most part it has stood pretty strong.

I'm inclined to say MMOs also have a certain lack of a deeper story that one can be truly involved in and feel like they're the hero of. Mostly because you can go out and say "I'm your hero! i killed the vile dragon that has plagued your world for centuries and planned to bring it to an end!"... and ya know what? Almost everyone else will go "Ok....congrats? I killed that wuss last week." It will also kinda get old after killing the same mob that supposedly was going to end the world several times over...

Two - "the story has to end" - Like any game, there will inevitably be a point where one can say the game has been wrapped up. All traditional games have ends, and those that let you play beyond it, well, it just doesn't tend to be as fun running about being a beef daddy with nobody to brag to...

Online games of any form really helps to alleviate this problem in one way but kinda makes a different problem in the process. It gives you the freedom to take what you have done and stick with it, waiting for the next biggest thing to come along in the case of MMOs, which is rather circular in that you get max level and get the best gear just to wait for it to all become worthless and work your way up more along an everlasting loop of trivial function.

FP games solve the problem mostly with expansive pvp implementation. Which really also has it's problems as much as it's solutions. For those that enjoy it, it poses a great amount of replayability in that you can play the same level on the same mode with different people and get an almost entirely different experience...as long as you haven't played the same game for 4 years... After learning the strategies and reaching your particular plateau in general maintainable skill, there really isn't much to do. You don't unlock new things, you don't get fancy new badges, you just keep killing one another on and on and on...

Three - "my e-peen is thiiiiis big!" - Kinda tied to the beef daddy remark, when all is said and done, what is there to do? There's no one to brag to, there's nothing left to kill, the game's over and you have nothing to show for it.

Online alleviates this problem almost entirely as long as it is implemented halfway decently. Even something as simple as giving you achievements for completing things in a single player game to rack up a pointless bar that you can show to your friends and those you play with can give people a hard on. There are those that will take much of that a step further as well.

Games have been seeing an integration between genres for a while. Hell it's been happening with most major multiplayer shooters as well. Battlefield series has all the unlockable weapons that it expanded upon in 2142 to include special items and ability upgrades. Rainbow six has the ACES system to get new guns and types of armor/camo. COD even has a progression system now.

Something to note though too is that the progression in FP games is much less linear. Things you unlock won't necessarily be better than the things you've got, but they will pose a new option in how to do things.

One example is in Vegas2. Two assault rifles that you unlock have the same base stats. The difference being one has a slightly larger clip and maintains stability over long fire and burst better. The other though has a more accurate single shot that can be repeatedly struck for very precise shots. Both are more or less capable of the same stunts, it's just minor factors that fine tune your gameplay, that caters to your personal style.

Sonner or later we are bound to see more integration, perhaps the gradual improvement of the character's overall accuracy, which isn't a bad idea as long as it's kept within reason. Just consider the deeper integration of the RPG aspects. Not everyone starts out knowing how to even hold a gun in the army.

It might actually be realistic to say new players in an RPG/FP hybrid might be perfectly capable of  shooting a gun decent, but the difference will be in the details. When using single fire and scopes you will drift more, when using heavy fire and automatic fore your accuracy will decrease quicker, when sprinting and mele fighting your fatigue bar will expire quicker. When throwing grenades you won't might not throw it quite as far or it won't land quite where you intended to throw.

Really I think an integration of the two genres could work well. It could even be scaled in method of control and general ability to cater to both ends of the spectrum within the same game if one did it right.

Erm the lead for WoW is actually with Red 5 Studios. :P

I would like to clarify upon something said early on.

Time + intellect =/= rpg

The only constant factor is time. It gives one leway in planning out an attack, but like with many modern games, even DDO, WoW, and such all have a very specific attack and ability set that people rarely stray from.

In fact I will go so far as to say there's just as much variance in the modern rpg as there is in a shooter. Being that you have a particular item set you use and then several abilities you use.

The shooter has an almost non existent ability set but multiple item sets that vary how one does things.

There is about as much variance in either. What does stand true about rpgs and fps?

time = rpg

reflex = fps

Intellect and true deep skill is independent of both genres. You can have just as much strategy in a ctf match of TF2 as you generally see in any battleground in WoW. In fact if you went to playing Rainbow Six games with proper squads of players, there is better cohesion, strategy, and player control than what most will likely ever see in a BG.

intelligence + skill = good gamer regardless of genre

I taught my dad how to PvP in the BGs in WoW. And he doesn't even know what all the specs for his class is or most of his spells. I only put five spells on his bar and told him what to do with his pet and now he's running around in full PvP gear. You don't need to know anything to be good at drawn out combat, you simply need to know what few magical buttons to hit. You get a group together and they have their buttons ready, the attacking team moves out pushes others back and forth, and the combat drags on until one side beast the others back far enough or one side is slightly less ignorant than the other.

In a shooter you have a few buttons to hit, but every click matters. You shoot, people know where you are and people are going to come after you. You not only have to shoot faster than them, but you have to know what they have, be able to readily hit them in the important locations if the head isn't accessible, know what routes they may take to get around or flank you, what allies are doing and what their situation is on the other side of the map, because in a few seconds it could all crash down on you and your entire team loses.

Form a snapshot...I would say the shooter requires more intelligence on a regular basis to win and be good at...

EDIT: I would also like to note that...

mmo =/= effort

Planetside, your time and effort was rewarded effectively with something that did in fact improve your abilities and chances at victory, assuming you knew how to use the weapon.

An mmofps would not directly equate to you working your tail off to earn something useless or achieve any goal that wouldn't be worth it.

if you spend a year earning something, that something will likely be a cluster rocket that blows the hell out of a tank that someone else spent a lot of time earning.

It all would in fact balance out in the end, likely better and more easily than an mmorpg can attain that balance.

In counterpoint to the last person's eloquent remark...

The game is like any other FPS more or less. I personally have loved the game for a long time because of it's persistent design and battlefronts.

I also must admit this game is well past it's prime. The physics is dated and the feel is sluggish in comparison to other newer games. Really I would give the game a try, though I would be more inclined to say wait and buy Tom Clancy's EndWar when it comes out.

Originally posted by rishaki

 

Originally posted by Deivos

Perhaps you don't see the reasons it's hard for them to ban farmers...

 

They can ban you for the macro stuff.

 

They can ban you for external monetary transactions.

 

They have to be able to verify it first.

 

If they look into a guild or even one person who is "obviously" a farmer, they have to be able to catch that farmer doing something illegal, not simply hacking away at mobs endlessly. They have to track that character for macros, which the farmer may not be using. They also have to track the money sellers and try to link them to those players and guilds.

 

Hell any smart sellers know enough to have an account not linked to their guild and to make a lowbie character that they transfer money to in order to sell. Hell they even could use a trial account to make a character to sell you the gold.

 

What is NC gonna do then? Ban a trial account? They may do that, but it in no way allows them to solve the problem because the actual farmers and guild remains intact and within legal boundaries.

 

 

There are private servers with scripted bans of bots that works perfectly. Get a clue kid. Some bots is hard to take down but none of those used in la2, these can be detected easily. Botters stand for 30-50% of accounts in La EU/US, thats why they are not banned. NCSOFT dident take action in time and the plague spread.

 

They dont need to verify anything, they can do EXACTLY whatever they wish, that is why we got more bots online at peak houers than real players.

NC can no longer make a proffit out of banning botters, thoe who left because of bots is not comming back so banning bots will only make them lose even more money.

Those who are left is

Majority botters or ebayers. A small procent is legit but those are probebly only legit because they play casual, to keep up with other and to compeat you either need to play 24/7 or bott/ebay/share account.  The bar is set so high for high level pvp that legit players have a hard time to keep up.

Botters are deadpan simple to detect and ban, yes. And if ya looked at that aspect it would also fall under the trial accounts quite likely, as if you made a botter you would simply macro them up rapidly and farm away for a while, shipping off all worthwhile stuff to an actual account where you would then redistribute it.

Once again, what would NC do? Ban a trial account?

Also, if NC did whatever they wish, they would have a backlash in asia that they likely wouldn't recover from. Therefore they are going to stick to whatever falls within the realm of the EULA and their legal rights.

The problem bein ghere that all those botters and all those illegal actions can easily take place within a temporary realm that NC has no logical reason to stop off the bat. Where is the logic in banning something that's already set to go poof?

If NC banned any of those farmer guilds that quite easily keep at least most of their accounts within the legal limits, then the guild would use the players from within the realm of legality to start an uproar about being banned "unjustly" for something their guild mates did behind the others back.

This is a pretty deep game actually, the economy looks like it could be fun to tinker with without ever getting into much in the way of combat.

I personally didn't like the game. This doesn't change the fact that this is a great game though.

Someone will inevitably be by telling you about the good/bad aspects of the game, but really, the character creation was straight forward and the tutorial was easy and informative. There really isn't any reason to not try this game out.

...minimize the station and play some other games that aren't bad or redundant? Ya gotta some other games...like an FPS...or a different mmo....or maybe a console, go play Burnout Paradise and crash some cars, that's pretty fun.

Perhaps you don't see the reasons it's hard for them to ban farmers...

They can ban you for the macro stuff.

They can ban you for external monetary transactions.

They have to be able to verify it first.

If they look into a guild or even one person who is "obviously" a farmer, they have to be able to catch that farmer doing something illegal, not simply hacking away at mobs endlessly. They have to track that character for macros, which the farmer may not be using. They also have to track the money sellers and try to link them to those players and guilds.

Hell any smart sellers know enough to have an account not linked to their guild and to make a lowbie character that they transfer money to in order to sell. Hell they even could use a trial account to make a character to sell you the gold.

What is NC gonna do then? Ban a trial account? They may do that, but it in no way allows them to solve the problem because the actual farmers and guild remains intact and within legal boundaries.

I'm pretty sure this game will do at least decently well. Maybe not as good as some other games, but I know I will at least be trying this game out.

Realistically, this game has a particular style of gameplay that soe people have voiced interest in and others have reacted...stupidly?...to. The best one can hope for as with any game is that fans, interests, and skeptics alike will all try it before casting their votes and that the game will float.

I personally find the concept a great idea, mostly because like even with the graphics. They didn't go for cutting edge, they went for their own style. The hidden advantages of doing such a thing too will be there, like making a system optimized game that doesn't have extra rendering code running that inevitably slows down the system, instead having that precious data flow available to do other things like make combat and interactivity more lively.

All in all, looks like this game has a good chance at becoming at least moderately popular.

As I said a while back, I really can't see Bioware doing another SW game of any form purely because they have clearly voiced their plans on doing some of their own original works when they had announced Mass Effect.

I'm rather inclined to say whatever comes out of Bioware will more than likely be unique to their own desires and not so much based on someone else's standing property.

People actually care about this kinda stuff?

Yeah I gotta say this really wouldn't be a WAR clone in this case, just more nuts trying to capitolize on their market. Kinda slowly but still goin' at it.

...Think that's all I had to say...really don't care enough about a WoW miniatures game to give much thought to it.

Personally I love the game, or more the design of the game...But really oyu are likely to make a character or two then get bored of the redundancy.

There is quite a bit more content now, but that really doesn't avoid the inevitability of repetition. They have made the game a bit more solo friendly too, grouping is far better though.

Guess the obvious thing to say is, if you didn't like the game much at release, then you will only find mild interest in it now and that interest will wane.

I still log in time to time and just have fun doing a few things, kinda want to tinker with the crafting they added.

I'm a little iffy on that part, as DAoC endgame most people had either player crafted or raid items. Although this is the same problem with even WoW and any other game.

Aside from the fact that we willinevitably face attack of the clone like every other game that is reliant to one degree or another on items, it's likely because they use the same character (unless they are showing off a particular class/race) to do all those videos. Also at low levels not many people tend to look distinguished because they are all using the quest gear they get, so if yer talkin' about how they look in beta it would be because everyone just has the same items on...

Like any other modern game, there will be more variance to gear, faces, and possibly other stuff. Thing is, most people don't spend the time to find those variances, and when most people are focused on min/maxing their gear, very few ever look unique.

this really goes for all games and not just this one.

Can't it ever be about just how lazy one is?

If I get home from work and don't want to bother with my computer and instead want to play the game on a big clear 48x36" HD LCD screen while resting on a big cushy leather couch, I would full well intend on playing on the 360.

If it's been a lazy day and I want to look at something pointlessly detailed and sparkly just so I can show off to...myself I guess? I would intend on booting up my PC with it's dual 8800s and cutting edge components (dun worry, I'll get 3 9800s for my next comp )  and it's 36x28" screen and blind myself from a couple feet away.

And what's this? Both have surround sound? Both can use a keyboard/mouse OR a controller? Both are just the same game that's being played just from two different locations and for two slightly different reasons?

Holy crap, I think I just realized that no matter where I play, the only difference will be slight graphics quality and the size of the screen I'm on...

EDIT: Got the dimensions of my comp screen wrong. :P 38x28" All hail money?

I still fail to see the logic in how a gamepad is inferior for gaming compared to mouse/keyboard when it comes to intuitive development and next gen gameplay, hell it's actually to do a concept layout for the new games than it is for the older ones. And the sensitivity issue is kinda a non-existant one now with the range and details that have been given to the new console systems. Hell you could even buy a third party peripherial controller that's got better sensitivity just like you would do for a mouse/keyboard.

Thing i want to point out though is that like the company Red 5, the AoC guys would likely have a dev team dedicated to tweaking and optimizing the game for the console as well as doing all the gameplay interaction/functionality. Aside, it's not hard nor unreasonable to require keyboard/mouse on the 360 to play the game, it's not like those things are expensive...

When mommy or daddy fall in love with a giant ugly alien, they sometimes do a little adult thing in private....When this happens a stork that is coming for mommy or daddy gets struck by lightning and the baby gets dropped, hitting every branch of the ugly tree as it makes it's way towards the soft cushy rock that is the ground....

That's how hybrids are formed!

As an aside, it's just a quick thing to add some variance and give people something to tinker a bit with as they prep the other fancier things.

I have another question!

How do I cancel my account?