Wordiz,

I take it you'd still be playing LOTRO if they found a decent place for the Loremaster.

Limited class and races were a problem  for me going in.  My first run at this game was as a "tank." After failing horribly on the first dungeon I quit.  I shortly (after a week) rer-olled a rogue...Again, I don't much care for the whole "You are X type of class" at character creation, but oh well.  I fared much better, and enjoyed some pvp after several missions.  Then I ran my first foundry mission.  There was no way to exit when I was dropped into the dungeon.  After beating the first group of baddies, I was unable to progress, as more baddies were attempting to attack me through a closed gate, and there was no way I could open it, since they were trying to attack me the moment I got within X length of them.  I couldn't leave the player made game, or progress, forcing me to log out.  I couldn't even send feedback to this person about his broken ass game.  The fact that this foundry mission was on the list of a three that I had to select from sucked.   

So far, this game provides very limited options for players in regards to what role they want to play.  The Foundry would be a saving grace, if only they would at least provide a requirement for submission that players had an ability to exit from the entrance, in case the map is bugged.

Hey, I'm stuck on trying to kill this rat guy...Are there any mature casual guilds to join?  I don't know if I like the game yet, I have to wait a couple of weeks for the shine to wear off before I decide.

Anyway, I remember what the whole foundry thing in CoH did...You had pretty much  nothing but farming missions.  It ruined the game.  Good on them for not allowing it to happen with this game.

Originally posted by MaxHazard

Originally posted by Ikeda

So what you're saying is...

PWE is banning people...

For playing missions...

That have no story line...

So basically, people are creating missions exploiting the drops/foundry system.  And PWE is banning the people (who I'm sure are doing so egregiously and not just a couple of times).   And you're against the company?

Are you kidding me?  You actually would prefer the people exploit this system?!?

 

P.S.  Thanks for creating an account just to point out the PWE is wrangling in exploiters.  You should post on your perm account here instead of hiding behind a facade.

Ikeda, they are banning players who play on any mission that does not have a story. That even goes for missions that people create that are survival horror / horde mode. That also goes for arenas and other maps that are not exploiting, they simply lack a story. Thing is, prior to today, they stated that as long as a foundry mission does not make it so monsters are stuck and can not attack, they are fully allowed. Now today they claim that any mission is bannable without a decent story line. Apparently they are banning players that have yet to even play on missions AFTER this recent announcement. So players who were given approval prior to this recent announcement are now being banned, even tho they were told they were doing nothing wrong.

 

As for my new account, I'm not hiding behind it. My main was irrelevant and mainly used for lurking. It's not like I would have issues posting on it. I simply don't wish to use it anymore and create a new identity.

BS.

Take note, CU, THIS is how you go for kickstart donationes!

Not  that I'd donate.  I'd invest my savings into the company, but I wouldn't donate it...But then, I don't make enough to do anything but to try to grow my meager savings. Even so,  I wish this guy the best of luck.

Originally posted by Eaderbreca

Originally posted by Squeak69

Originally posted by Hrimnir

Once again peopel confusing how investments and projects work. 

This is not a website for a developing game.  This is a website for a game seeking funding for development.  They're not going to waste money and resources creating videos and screenshots and art assets for a game that may not get developed. 

All the information you need to make your decision is contained within the foundational principles.  If you're too lazy, ignorant, or stupid to read it, thats not their problem, and as you can see from kickstarter, they're clearly not having issues with funding.

So guess what that makes you.

and this high handed atitude is where the real issue is.

the problem here is the difficulty for average people to get iinformation wwho arnt already intrested in the game, because until you become intrested in it you wont do research on it, so unless someone gets you intrested you wont ever become that.

saying that thats its not thier problem is just wrong because it is, by not putting on clear concise information for non fan boys to understand you are cutting off huge amount off possable intrest and more backers.

ANY person looking to get someone to invest in thier project would have out togther a good portfolio before presenting it, why should the gameing community as a whole not get the same respect.

Because there cannot be a portfolio without backing first. That's what we're here for.

If someone wants information to get interested in the game, all that should attract the right community is there.

Not convinced? Then CU is not for you, move on and get out.

Criticizing the website at such an advanced stage is childish net picking.

That website doesn't need to be a portfolio, it needs to be a presentation/business plan that is easy to read, informative, and doesn't require me to have to dig for information.  

You seem to be rather defensive, which is very counterpoductive at this point.  At this stage you are selling nothing more than an idea for a game.  Having an attitude of "well, if someone doesn't want to be bothered with reading wall after wall of (mostly) pointless text, who needs 'em anyway" is simply the wrong way to look at it.  The fact is that you DO need them if you want their money.  You need to SELL them your idea and CONVINCE them to give you their money and be APPRECIATIVE about it.  The OP was right in his assessment.  Clearly these guys need someone who knows a bit about sellsmanship on their team. 

Originally posted by Sornin

Originally posted by zytin

Originally posted by Saevel

Originally posted by zytin

Originally posted by grogstorm
Often the difference between a successful person and a failure is not one has better abilities or ideas, but the courage that one has to bet on one's ideas, to take a calculated risk - and to act.   - Andre Malraux

Yes, but the whole point of taking a risk is that there is a chance of getting a return on your investment.  Kickstart is a way for developers to get investors without actually having to answer to them.  They get your money, you get crap back if they succeed, and they get to keep all the profits...Why would you do that?  

Obviously, the return in kickstarter is the game. The experience. There won't be a monetary gain, that's not the point, and if you somehow expect that from everything you pay for in advance, you're missing both the point of kickstarter, and fail to see all the potential advantages of it.

 

It's like paying an architect or a painter up front, or while they work. Not unheard of. You don't know quite what you're going to get, you rely on the integrity and quality of those people, as well as the idea(s) they convey to you.

So...You pay money so that you might get a game that might be something you want to play...And you funded it becuase you'll get a joy out of it if it turns out to be the game that you want to play...If you have 5k to throw away, I suppose that would be fine, but your analogy is flawed.

 

You don't pay an architect up front.  You get give them a comission, and they design something, redesign in, re-redesign it, until you agree on the product you want.  He then designs a final product and builds it, and you keep it.  If you pay a painter or architect up front, with no contract or expectation for a return on your money, you're an idiot.  Even with an artist that agrees to paint something for you, they will show you multiple options to choose from, which you then pick, which they then create, exactly how you want, and you get to keep it.  In both examples, you are investing in an item that you agree on and want, and get to keep for yourself.  Even so, those examples don't work here.

 

Video games aren't simply works of art.  They are a product that is going to be built and sold with the idea that it is providing a product and (in the case of MMO's) a service to people who are willing to pay for it.  This is no different than a band, or a store, or a business that makes cell phones or computer chips or a doohiky that people will be willing to pay for.  In this case, you are being approached by a person who wants to create a service or product that many people will want, and you are willing to invest in their business.  In exchange for that investment, you will want a return on your money.  You believe in the product, you review their business plan, and you give them thousands of dollars.  They create the product or service, people buy it, and the busniess then makes money.  When that business makes money, you get a portion of it, since you put money in to get it up and running in the first place.  Hopefully you backed a winning horse and get more on your return than you put in.  

 

Kickstart is totally taking advantage of people who are completely uneducated on capitalism and the free market.

Your flaw is looking at it as an investment, or assuming we are - it is not. It is a pledge because you believe in the project and want to see it completed. If I wanted to invest in something I would add to my portfolio, which I already did right around when I did my taxes, not look at Kickstarter. I am putting money in here for fun, that is all.

Some people do not understand why people pledge to Kickstarter projects, but we cannot understand why those people care and continue to bring up investments and such, like this is how we plan to retire, by funding games. We want to see this happen, and if we do not pledge, it may not. We know we are not going to see a financial return. We know we may not even see the project get finished. We know all that, yet we believe enough to pledge our money and hope it helps something come to life.

You do not understand that, and you may not ever understand; it is a funny thing, to cling so much to capitalism and the free market as though it were some sort of truth, or religion. I really hope they end up entertaining you as much as this game will hopefully entertain us. :)

An interesting conversation, though going for the whole 'truth or religion' jab regarding capitalism is a bit contradictory comming from someone who has a portfolio.   Too, look at my last post.

Originally posted by JayDose

Originally posted by zytin
So if you pay into this, you'll get to play the game for free, for as long as it runs?  I'm not sure if I get the point of investing in the development of a product if I don't either see a return on my investment, be that through a share in the company or the ability to play the game without paying for it once it hits retail as a reward for taking the risk of investing in its creation...

I agree but its more of a donation than an investment.

Well, if it's a donation, and people understand that they are just donating, that makes better sense.  Perhaps I was looking at it the wrong way.

Originally posted by Saevel

Originally posted by zytin

Originally posted by grogstorm
Often the difference between a successful person and a failure is not one has better abilities or ideas, but the courage that one has to bet on one's ideas, to take a calculated risk - and to act.   - Andre Malraux

Yes, but the whole point of taking a risk is that there is a chance of getting a return on your investment.  Kickstart is a way for developers to get investors without actually having to answer to them.  They get your money, you get crap back if they succeed, and they get to keep all the profits...Why would you do that?  

Obviously, the return in kickstarter is the game. The experience. There won't be a monetary gain, that's not the point, and if you somehow expect that from everything you pay for in advance, you're missing both the point of kickstarter, and fail to see all the potential advantages of it.

 

It's like paying an architect or a painter up front, or while they work. Not unheard of. You don't know quite what you're going to get, you rely on the integrity and quality of those people, as well as the idea(s) they convey to you.

So...You pay money so that you might get a game that might be something you want to play...And you funded it becuase you'll get a joy out of it if it turns out to be the game that you want to play...If you have 5k to throw away, I suppose that would be fine, but your analogy is flawed.

You don't pay an architect up front.  You get give them a comission, and they design something, redesign in, re-redesign it, until you agree on the product you want.  He then designs a final product and builds it, and you keep it.  If you pay a painter or architect up front, with no contract or expectation for a return on your money, you're an idiot.  Even with an artist that agrees to paint something for you, they will show you multiple options to choose from, which you then pick, which they then create, exactly how you want, and you get to keep it.  In both examples, you are investing in an item that you agree on and want, and get to keep for yourself.  Even so, those examples don't work here.

Video games aren't simply works of art.  They are a product that is going to be built and sold with the idea that it is providing a product and (in the case of MMO's) a service to people who are willing to pay for it.  This is no different than a band, or a store, or a business that makes cell phones or computer chips or a doohiky that people will be willing to pay for.  In this case, you are being approached by a person who wants to create a service or product that many people will want, and you are willing to invest in their business.  In exchange for that investment, you will want a return on your money.  You believe in the product, you review their business plan, and you give them thousands of dollars.  They create the product or service, people buy it, and the busniess then makes money.  When that business makes money, you get a portion of it, since you put money in to get it up and running in the first place.  Hopefully you backed a winning horse and get more on your return than you put in.  

Kickstart is totally taking advantage of people who are completely uneducated on capitalism and the free market.

Originally posted by grogstorm
Often the difference between a successful person and a failure is not one has better abilities or ideas, but the courage that one has to bet on one's ideas, to take a calculated risk - and to act.   - Andre Malraux

Yes, but the whole point of taking a risk is that there is a chance of getting a return on your investment.  Kickstart is a way for developers to get investors without actually having to answer to them.  They get your money, you get crap back if they succeed, and they get to keep all the profits...Why would you do that?  

Hmmm....Using oWoD and planning on adding additional races (werewolf/mage/changeling)?  This should be interesting.  I wonder what mechanics in the game they'll change.

Werewolves are very much more powerful than vampires.  One werewolf could more or less destroy a whole group of vampires in most cases, and mages can more or less do anything they want from wherever they want, going so far as to set off nuclear explosions from across the world.  The old world of darkness wasn't too concerned about balance, 

I'll also be interested in seeing how they handle the themes of each of those different races, since they all pretty much contradicted each other.  The one thing I could not grasp with having multiple races mixing it up in a game is that their lores are not compatible.  Either God exists and He cursed Cain and turned him into a vampire, or Gaia is the ultimate creator and the various other pegan lores which Werewolf pulls from come into effect.  Then again, Mage would mix just fine, since in mage reality is so subjective that to be a mage you just have to basically be a schizophrenic that has an uncanny ability to self-delude himself into make believing his own imaginary reality which he can bend to his will.  Then again, I don't see how it would actually be possible to implement Mage into a game at all, considering how freeform using magic is (you can basically do anything you want, so long as you can justify it under your self-deluded paradigm).

Originally posted by cura
You should learn to use commas. I really mean no offence but i cant force myself to read this gibberish

You should learn to use apostrophes.  And this is how you should have typed this sentence:

You should learn to use commans.  I really mean no offence, but I can't force myself to read this gibberish.  

Yay!  Let the drama begin!  PHB vs the wold!

BTW, these posts are like three or four months old...wouldn't it have been better to let sleeping dogs lie?  Unless, of course, you're a drama queen.  If that's the case, then this makes sense.

Actually, I haven't had any bug issues today (saturday) and I played from about 8am to 9pm with several breaks in between.  The only complaint I have at this time is the fact that I couldn't let the gay sylvari couple get killed, because two men that love each other like that shouldn't both be total bitches.  

Originally posted by Comae13

Is the worst moderation I have ever seen in 10 years of mmo, except for the Aion beta where they were koreans moderators who faked posts to ban people they didnt like. Yeah NCSOFT have the worst community management of all mmo editors.

 

There is only censorship. If you dont agree with something or didnt like something you are sanctioned. Comon we are adult or wtf ? I think we are in 2012 and there is enough of this.

Second thing, stop use that word, called "troll", really, you destroy the free speech on internet.

 

2 cents

If you posted like that on my forums, I'd moderate you, too.

Ahhh, so the spin begins.  I'll sum this up by way of removing the tact:

1. We know a lot of people are pissed off about this game after giving us all their money.  We aren't going to change the things that are pissing those people off.

2. We created the real cash auction ouse to stave off black market sells (lie).

3. We are going to continue to offer the cash auction house, because we take a cut and make money off of your hard work. (truth).

4.  We aren't going to increase drop rates of rare items, but we'll add more.

5.  We acknowledge that forcing you to play online in single player mode compeltely fucks you over due to lag.  We don't care.  We aren't interested in that.  You already bought the game...You'll try to play it again when we put in new patches.  Fuck off if you can't take a hint.  WE WILL NOT PROVIDE AN OFFLINE SINGLE PLAYER OPTION EVEN IF IT IS FULLY WITHIN OUR ABILITY!

6. We understand you are all pissed off.  That is why we employed the wordsmithing that we did.  Now you will understand by the power of our tact that we care about our customers.  Buy the other games we are making...They'll be better.

Fuck you, Blizzard.