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All Posts by kjempff

All Posts by kjempff

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685 posts found

1. Eq (pre GoD) - 50% pp*

2. WoW (pre cataclysm) - 10%

3. Loads of contenders 1-3% All doing well on some areas, but overall could not keep me interested.

*pp=perfection percentage ( totally subjective and my taste only )

I did to play (or not long enough to form an opinion) classics like uo, daoc, ac, eve.. But a good portion of mmorpg since 2005.

The problem with VR helmets is that more than 50% of all people still get motion sickness and serious side effects from using it. Oculus improved on this issue, but haven't really solved it.

I have much more faith in a holodeck type of vr with gesture recognition. But maybe the glasses/helmet tech is a step towards this.

Originally posted by Rydeso

....I actually would like to see games install a new twist to agro management.. >>  PROXIMITY  <<<   The closer you are to the mob the higher chance you'll get smacked by mob..  Example would take place like this..  Warrior that does 100dps point blank, is going to be #1 on that mobs agro list if all other players in the group are at 100dps or lower..  Now lets say you have a rogue that jumps into the fight and does 120dps point blank backstabbing.. HE  WILL become #1 on the agro list now, and rightfully so..  However lets use proximity for example, and assume a mage 10 feet away does 130 dps.. YES, he does the most dps, but because he is farther away, the mob doesn't really take that into consideration..  That 130 dps with a proximity adjustment might convert to 102 dps (according to the agro list).. If the mage moves back, the agro number might drop down to 93..  So the further away from the mob, the dps you can afford to shell out without risk of getting smacked..

    Different battle is a ranger shooting bow at 50m is smacking the mob with 150dps, but since he is so far away, the agro list is only recording him at 109.. However if the ranger moves up and gets closer to mob, or mob moves and gets closer to ranger, that number will change.. His 150 dps might now be 138 according to the agro list and now the ranger has a new friend.. UNTIL someone deals with the mob, or ranger learns to deal with his dps / proximity issue.. LOL  

Proximity mechanic is not a new idea, that is exactly how eq worked. I am sure you know that since you descibe the system, just a clarification for others.

On another note.. Tanking systems are defintely too taunt based, and it could be interesting to see more blocking path, blindness, snare/chaining, summoning, confusion, ground runes, etc as tanking mechanics.. Combined with others classes/roles needing to use the tanks maneuvers to lower their aggro.

 

My background is from eq, and back then eq was the game that really started to fire up my imagination of what the mmorpg genre could (have) become. This could become a long post and it still wouldn't cover much but lets get started.

 

- Bigger worlds. Actually huge world where you could get lost and find unexpected stuff just by exploring. So huge that You could log in every day for years and find new unexplored areas and content. This is very much a eq dream because eq hinted that this might be possible, I mean it would be "just" taking eq and multiply it by 10.

- Content explosion. With a bigger world there must be more content. At that time I didn't expect content to be so controlled (aka designed stories) as it has become. So with that mindset it was natural to think content was cheap to create, and therefore a grand mmorpg would just mass produce content. Little did I know that content would be so time consuming and costly to make in mmorpgs to come - And I still don't think it has to be, it is just a question of how the developer thinks.

- Intelligent NPC mechanics. AI based on neural networking and much deeper NPC interactions that would drive some of the virtual world. Sort of like what eqnext promises to do now. Self adjusting economy systems. Self adjusting politics system and NPC factions in a breathing living sort of world. One week the orc tribe might be strong and the next week they moved camp to a different location because the dwarf king decided til send out troops to deal with them.

- Game Masters. With more self sustaining world and game mechanics, resources could be re-alloced to shape the world dynamically. Create events, trigger bigger changes in factions, npc population, introduce and retire quests, and generally dedicate their time to keep the world healthy and a fun and interesting place for roleplayers to roam.

- Roleplaying on a grand scale. These new mmorpgs would be like second worlds where you would >>become<< your character and role play it. Logging in and beeing that character and taking decisions and forming a story. Simply just role playing on a much bigger scale, staying in character as much as possible and letting imagination take over.

- VR. The future dream would be "suiting" up and really be in character, with physics and VR or holodecks. Physcially controlling your character, swinging a sword, blocking an attack with shield, feeling the hits. I imagined that it might start with game halls where you could rent play time, inspired by the massive arcade halls back in the 80ies.

- Epicness. Being part of this huge world. Explore and adventure and experience stuff depending on your choices and who you met on the way. Not running designed content themepark style, but actually have freedom to create your own story only limited by the worlds setting and rules. This can only happen in a virtual WORLD, not a themepark.

- Sandbox. But not the sandbox designed for pvp. It was more from a pve perspective that it would be cool to have some sort of changing world. My mindset was limited to stuff like owning property or land, paying npc's to work and craft and stuff like that. More of the freedom stuff perspective I keep mentioning.

- EVERquesting. It is very simple, so much content, so great systems, so many options that a player virtually never would "come to the end" or reach "endgame". No Max levels, no playing just to get better gear, but playing because it was an adventure and it never stopped, always more ways to advance your character, always more "fame" to build. Eq laid out the path and it was my hope and dream that others would surpass and expand the concept. WoW showed promise back in the early days, but we all know what happened.

 

And much more, but I can feel my rambling is starting to wander of..

I think the basic thought back then was that it was the computing power and tech difficulties that were the limits, and it turned out that the limits were in the minds of the developers and the players instead.

 

Reading my post I am not satisfied, maybe I should have been more specific, it's just almost impossible because there is so much to say and so much that is based on other details and fundamentals that would need to be explained aswell. 

Wrong. I am sick and tiered of the same void statements about first mmorpg. Wearing the yes-hat as a lifestyle makes people blind to criticism, and the first time argument comes in handy.

To a devourer of games who just grind through every new game as fast as possible to play the next, sparkle might just mean new stuff. To a mmorpg player who are looking for a long term mmorpg relationship, the sparkle is whether the game presents deep mechanics and a promise of continous character evolution. The sparkle is not there because no games are offering it, and not because of the false premise that sparkle can only happen one time for one person.

There are really not many games that are pure mmorpgs anymore, but mmorpg dot com have explained they need to cover more broadly to stay alive. This makes sense with the current strategy, and it would probably be a gamble to downsize to a pure mmorpg site anyways.

Moving on to the point. Since games are so much cross genre, maybe it does not make sense to categorize them under a specific genre. On the other hand, it would really be useful when you read about an new game, to be able to place it. Understanding a games basic premises will also help not putting false expectations into a game and subsequent pointless forum wars.

Instead of labelling games with a genre, it is also a possibility to create an attribute system, so that each game could hold a number of attributes describing its nature. What these attributes should be is up for discussion, but it should be something that would help users get a rough idea of a game. Maybe even some kind of user driven categorising system.

A few (not thought through) ideas for attributes.. Box price, sub fee, ingame currency, class/skill based, coop, pvp, lobby/open world, destructable world, player content, art style. I can't decide if I think genres (like arpg, card game, etc) is an attribute.. But I guess You could and games could just be labelled with several genres if that is what they are?

 

Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by kjempff
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.

 

Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."

Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.

This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.

I don't know, I've been playing computer games as long as there's been computer games and I sure get tired of reading about how great everything was and how crappy it all is now. It really does seem like just a bunch of old people pouting that kids took over the world....same as always.

There will always be that group of people that got stuck in the past. The present isn't bad or wrong, it just didn't stay back there with you.

Ah but I think you misunderstand, games in general are getting better and better and I play many new games, it's just mmorpgs that are generally getting "worse". Basically mmorpgs are moving away from rpg and virtual world, and that is what I want from a mmorpg.. from other games I want other things.

Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by kjempff
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.

 

Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."

Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.

This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.

In a way, it is derogatory towards us older gamers, but isn't that how each generation tends to view the other? At a young we knew better than the older generation because we were 'hip' and knew the technology of our times better than they. As we got older we, as our elders did, knew that wisdom can often lead to a smarter path but complain of such lacking respect in the younger generation.

 Though I loved the EQ era of gaming, I actually like the evolution gaming is taking. Can't like everything out there, how can I with the myriad of games coming out and what little time I have to play them all. I'd love to try them all but i have to pick and choose, and sometimes I might not stay in a game as long as I did back in EQ but it's mainly to try a new one.

 Maybe I'll find one to 'pitch my tent' in and never leave, but who knows?!

I think what happened is that when some of us "old farts" tried mmo's for the first time, we had an idea that a few years later there would be even "more awesomer" virtual rpg worlds with even more advanced content and concepts. The reason I thought and hoped that was what would happen, was because I and probably others had already played games for years and had witnessed the extremely fast evolution of gaming. It had to happen and why not .. computers doubled in power each year and new games blew our minds with new ideas and concepts all the time.

Instead what happened is that non-rpg players came into the marked, and mmorpgs changed direction away from our dreams of what those epic future mmorpgs would be like. Ever since have "we" have hoped for some game that would turn towards the rpg and world based mmorpg that we were so hyped about back then. Every new mmorpg since then has had some hints of something in that direction but the reality is they just got further and further away from the rpg world mmorpg. So here we are, the hope can never die, and we are still gamers, we just hope for a game that would have some of that awesomeness we imagined the future would bring ... just a little bit.

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

I am so sick of "must be nostalgia" replies. Us "old farts" must be retarded or incompetent because surely, all those old games SUCKED! Get a clue, please.

 

Depth is gone. ALL characters are the same. ALL skills are the same. Everything basically boils down to "How fast can you kill other things?" You know what? There is more to video games than just "kill everything in sight."

Get off of the "Nostalgia" crap. Go play a real game that involves more than just kill things. Oh wait, you don't like those games.

This should be copy/pasted as reply to all the remarks that contains wording like .. "rose tinted glasses", "nostalgia", "ancient", "your first mmo". Those are simply just a way to ignore experience and derail an actual discussion.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by kjempff

I think most Everquest players will define Eq as "living breathing world" because although it was static it was so advanced and well made that it made you feel like you were in a world that was alive.

Camping static spawns "feel like you were in a world that was alive"?

Well dynamic spawns has never been done to date. Some spawn were static but many were randomized with ph's as static locations or ph's as dynamic locations, so with that in mind it is the least static mmo made afaik. Besides the point is more how a game world feels rather than its mechanics. If Eq felt static to you, could you mention a mmo world that feels alive to you ?

Well written post OP but...

Everything you mention is the definition of "Sandbox" and not "Living breathing world". Living breathing world CAN be sandbox but sandbox is not the definition of Living breathing world.

I think most Everquest players will define Eq as "living breathing world" because although it was static it was so advanced and well made that it made you feel like you were in a world that was alive. A Themepark game on the other hand makes you feel like the game world is there only so you can do stuff (badly generalized).

Minecraft is very much a sandbox game, but it is hardly a living breathing world. Living breathing world require much more than just players being able to change the world.

Living breathing is much more a state of mind thing, whether You can imagine the world existing on its own terms, that things happen and history(lore) has put a mark on the world and its inhabitants, NPC's or players. Less than a handful of games has ever put me into that state of mind, but the one that did this best for me has never had any close rivals... and Oh I hope that one day I shall see a real "Living breathing world" again.

A game based on self sustaining ai sound like utopia. Ai is limited to the rules set out for it to act on, and it may control some simple things such as supply and demand, factions, alliances, places of interest and so on. But ai can not create new content, ai can not invent a new race with new lore and new graphics, ai can not react to unforeseen events or behaviour, and so on.

if they think they can make a self evolving game through ai scripting, I think they are seriously underestimatinhow destructive and alternative seeking gamers are.. They(we) WILL break the system, it is just human nature.

So the only way emergent ai can work (and make the game interesting to play), is if controlled by a council of real humans who can counter, change, adjust the world and ui continuously. Adding content to the game is also important, because a game controlled by ai is not everchanging, players will figure out the ai and see through the illusion... Atleast that is what gamers have done the last 30 years, and there is no indication ai is about to become so advanced that a bunch of theorycrafters wont figure it out.

Well Gw2 is also quest ginding, they just moved the !? to be triggered by location instead of clicking a quest giver.

The answer to your question is (and you probably already knew it), there isn't a mmorpg fitting your criteria, only some that may fit some of it. Also dungeon grinding doesn't really fit with solo.. mob grinding as main progression is afaik also non existing.

Maybe Neverwinter could do fill some of the gaps, it is solo friendly except dungeons those are group based like all dungeons in all games are, it has interesting classes and also class mechanics (aka roles), but like all others it is quest based.

 

Oh actually if you want to go a bit off mmorpg, Path of Exile launches a new "expansion" tomorrow, and that will definately cover the grind mobs/dungeon part completely, and it is actually free to play without hidden pay walls whatsoever.

I am one of those who wrote the game off. I heard about this sandbox game and I though let me have a go on the beta weekend to get a feel for what its about. I heard from a friend that it opens up at 30, and this promise was the only thing that kept me going. Tbh I don't look forward to pvp and at the crafting chores is not enough to interest me.. I haven't heard or gotten any feel for whether there is more to do later in the game. There were hints of something interesting hidden in the combat systems, but thats about it.

So I made it to 19 and since its the first run it did take me 10 hours to get there, and the journey was the most uninspired and boring experience I ever tried in any mmorpg. Not only was it extreme themepark but all the rides were cramped even tighter than in any game before and every hub boxed in with rails between them.. It was a chore, boring and pointless. I desperately tried to hop off the rails and try to explore the world because it was a sandbox game right?.. but no there was no escape, so I manned up and kept clicking pointless quests. My friend loved and clicked like mad, and I just grew increasingly bored and frustrated.. Finally I gave in and went to bed, the next day I couldn't bare to log in again.

So You are saying players should just endure the boring first 30 levels and then suddenly the game will go from the most extreme themepark closed world, to and open world sandbox game? It is hard to beleive a game would turn 180 like that, and I can read that is what You guys are saying, but there have been no indications of it playing the game up till now. What is going on, is there any reason why they would make the starting experience so void of sandbox elements when they advertise it as sandbox... It is a complete mysteri to me. It was so completely and utterly out of touch with anything I could define as sandbox or open world.

I do appreciate a game that takes efford and dedication to play, but I feel that the first part of the game will mostly make the target players quit. 

Originally posted by Fermian
Think they do have an IP problem when creating a new MMO. Starcraft and Diablo arent really RPG MMO compatible and starting a new IP for an MMO is a big risk. Think they have to start a new RTS series.

Diablo might be tough, but I don't see a huge problem with Starcraft. It is "just" warcraft in futuristic setting isn't it ? So build some stories and personalize the races shouldn't be that hard. Besides I am guessing it will not be a mmorpg in the traditional sense, it will be closer related to a rts/builder game based on pvp conflicts, just with mmorpg parts mixed in - Therefore it does not need as strong a history and world to be valid. Heh hard to say but guessing is fun.

This interview is just a diplomatic answer to something he couldn't answer yes or no to, so he decided to keep the door open and answer maybe.

First Blizzard will need to see WoW player numbers go seriously down, because as other mentioned they have no reason to compete with their other products. Also they want to see if EQN and and other builder types of mmorpgs are valid business models. Blizzard are not inventors, they are refiners, so they watch and make better models over successful ideas.

Personally I don't beleive one bit in WoW2, if they were to make a new mmorpg, I would put my money on a builder mmorpg-rts mix probably based on Starcraft.. this is also because I don't see WoW dying in the next 5 years anyways, and they need to do something new and something that isn't dragging customers from WoW.

 

Never have I been more bored in any mmorpg. I made it to 19 and I can't take this railroaded mindless questhub themepark stuff anymore - And in Archeage that part is more generic and uninteresting than ever before. Sandbox hah, maybe there is an interesting crafting system hidden somewhere, but the quest system is the purest dull themepark. Maybe there is some interesting group and "class" mechanic at later levels? I tried starting out as some kind of healer/support thing and a friend as melee, but that was pointless atleast until lvl 15 where I turned mage-ish and we parted to grind quests alone.

I played wow and I am done with it, so I really dont need another questhubber and especially not one so poorly made. Click ! Turn around, pick up poo, turn in, get next quest.. No challenge, no exloring, no reasons, no adventure, nothing to trigger imagination, just plain soul less. Am I beeing too harsh? Maybe but holy.. I am bored.

Yeah yeah its all good, but I would really rather see some improvement on the voxel system. Building any detailed stuff is a nightmare and takes ages, and that is if it's even possible to get the voxels to behave. It is not really your imagination that decides how things will look, but rather how the voxel limitations allow it to look.

Voxel boards is cool and all, but as long as these voxel shapes require air voxels around them to not distort, there are serious limitations. I do not know what could fix the problem or how, but it is a fundamental problem with their voxel system that needs attention.

Vanguard was the last mmorpg to present us a world rather than a themepark. Vanguard was the last mmorpg I wanted to explore what a dungeon held deep inside because it was unknown what surprices it held. Vanguard had combat/class mechanics that still today is more inventive and interesting than most games I can think of.

Vanguard was an infant all its life, it had the right genes but living in poverty it never grew past childhood. The only mmorpg that could have raised the bar set by eq.. Well but only if it had been developed and iterated, expanded, but in 7 years it moved nowhere (significantly).

Maybe one day will come another mmorpg that is a world and not a themepark, that let players form and choose their own stories instead of having premade stories fed to them on rails.. A game in the spirit of Vanguard and Eq.

Destructible world sounds good, but looks bad. After building stuff in Landmark I realized how limited their voxel system is to create detailed shapes with. You see the flaws in the buildings and instead of using good artists, they copied what people made in Landmark. Even though there are some amazing stuff in Landmark, the voxel based stuff wont stand scrutiny. Voxels for terrain is ok, but for buildings etc, not pretty.

What they showed with abilities that digs holes in the ground is just unfitting and unnatural, hey even in Landmark I find it kindda wierd that you can just start up your (forgot the name) "disintegrator5000" and 30 secs later having dug youself a 100m deep hole in solid rock.

First order of business should really be to try and fix the fundamental problems with voxels limited shape options and looks, that is what Landmark needs badly, then it might be acceptable to use for a mmorpg like eqnext that is supposed to compete with beautiful and almost naturalistic style in other mmorpgs.

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