Originally posted by Wololo

Originally posted by Four0Six

In the beginning there was only MMORPG.

Now there are MMOFPS, MMOMOBA, MMORTS, MMOLobby...MMOBLAHBLAHBLAH.

Semantics are important, since when you use words to communicate there meaning is important, but it is also important to understand that it is a much broader market now.

MMOMOBA = Massive Multiplayer Online Multiplayer Online Battle Arena?

Nice one.

This thread discussion about this huge AAA MMO got me really riled up to make this thread. Because its going no where there.

The main argument I see for why "SLOW" leveling is needed, is because it makes people learn their class.

Well thats a common misconception. What if somebody played one spec while leveling, and switched to a new spec once at max level thats totally different. How would any of that level grinding, develop their skill in using those others specs?

We see this a lot in trinity based games. People level as DPS or something like it, but want to play Healer or Tank at endgame, which is a totally different play style.

Group content is the best way to develop Tanking and Healing skills. Not Leveling.

Seem like people also feel that people who dont like grinding, shouldnt play MMOs. Well when did it become set in stone that MMO gamers need to like grinding, and that all MMOs need to be grindy?

I to quit my favorite MMO (rift) during Storm Legion because of the huge level grind. I couldnt bare being locked away from content and features and builds after spending months as a max level already. The Level grind was long and boring killing mobs and mobs, or even Quest and Quest or whatever else in between.

Same thing in GW2. I was bored out my mind trying to level my alts after the big flood of hype wore off. Man that was crazy boring. Events and Hearts just were totally boring for leveling. After my Main got to 80, I refused to do hearts anymore because of how tired I am of Quest Grinding in MMOs. But outside of Hearts there was a hard time gaining consistent leveling exp which also felt slower than it already was with the heart grind.

Why do we need levels in MMO anymore?

All they do is lock away players from content.

Its a huge time sink. Prove me wrong!!!!

Take any Themepark MMO that has level grind. Now imagine how that game would be if it didnt have level. Everything would be endgame content. Imagine that for a moment. That seem like a better game than they currently are.

New MMO games launch with level grind, than when people get to max level, they find out that most of the development resources went into non max level content which become meaningless and outleveled. (SWTOR, Rift, WoW, etc)

But if that same game had no levels to begin with, all that content would be endgame instead of the tiny max level stuff.

Levels Segregate the community.

again Prove me wrong!!

Originally posted by Grailer

Looking at the graphics its clear to me this sandbox is going to push my PC to the limits .

 

Instead of cartoon candy land this game offers amazing realism and I can't wait to see more videos. Its too good to be true !

 

This is the first video .

 

http://vimeo.com/57201744

Yeah because Realistic graphics has ever ben the staying power for a MMO to retain players....

Originally posted by lizardbones

This thread was spawned by the following post in another thread:
Vorthanion's Post: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5737387#5737387

The upshot is that if you compare MMO development to single player game or multiplayer game development, it seems like the MMO developers produce lower quality products, with fewer features, longer development cycles and a lot more bug fixes.

Now, ignoring the exponentially larger amount of work that goes into an MMO, because the general gaming public neither knows nor cares about that additional work; why does the general gaming public seem more forgiving towards the flaws of MMOs?

I think it's because MMOs offer an experience that just isn't available in other games. Running around in a virtual world with other people doing stuff around you. This is something that is missing from every other type of game, and it's something that people miss when they don't have it. Players are willing to put up with more to get that feeling.

What do you think?

OP for sake of discussions like this, I suggest in the future you separate "BUGS" from "GAME DESIGN" when talking about quality. Because most people replying with the excuse of MMOs being harder to develop will be using it to defend the bug issues, not the game design flaws of the MMO development.

my opinion, ignoring bugs of course, MMO developers have flawed game designs. That's why most MMO fail.

Originally posted by JVasquez

Only thing WoW did better then other games was make it more geared towards children. They lowered the skill level needed to be good at the game which opened up a lot of new customers, casual people, parents and their kids who can now play with each other. The main games before WoW required skill to be good at it.

If you played those games you would understand.

Also WoW had a lot of bugs when it first came out. It was no where near a polished game when released. It also was not as popular. This was because it was harder. It followed the games before it like EQ and DAOC where things were not easy and you had to be good. Then at some point they nerfed everything. Things could now be done well half paying attention. If you had good gear you no longer had to be a good player.

Then addons came out. Now the skill was completely out the door. Years of playing this way has made it so people can not survive in any game other then WoW. They play a new game, can't heal because they do not have heal bot. Can't keep aggro because they do not have something telling them when they need to increase aggro. Pretty much there aren't things holding their hand making it easy mode. They try to switch games. End up not able to handle the skill level needed and go back to WoW.

WoW was very popular. It brought MMOs into the mainstream spotlight. It also ended all hope for MMOs as the new online players today need the WoW crutch in order to play them.

 

 

 

Are you talking about the same Vanilla WoW I played?

Originally posted by healboot

over 4k post history and you post shit with blanks in it I see you now

 

QFT

now if only I could sell it to farmers. I would make billions!! Need shit to make food grow bro

Originally posted by meddyck
WAR would have been a great MMO if it had had copied DAOC instead of WOW, because DAOC is more fun.

Originally posted by jimdandy26
Players make shitty developers. They are not qualified to answer your op.

Originally posted by PAL-18

but what company is worthy of publishing game like this,which is pretty much UO 2000 ?

NASA ?

Warner Bros ?

 

Originally posted by jimdandy26
I still feel that Ncsoft should be publishing it.

Fill in the blanks for any MMO of your choice that you feel wasn't that great of a game.

"____ would have been a great MMO if it had did/had _______, because ______"

Originally posted by Vannor

The Lich King.

The only reason I've read all the WoW novels is because I wanted to know more about Arthas.

If we using novels

i say

general turalyon From WoW. He is pretty badass lore figure in WoW lore.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by psiic

Pfft 

 

Could be worse Archeage could be in the hands of SOE

 

Might be in the hands of no-one soon... pfft

I heard they publish great games. 

Originally posted by Illyssia

Well folks, a lot of us have long had major doubts about how good Dust 514 might be, and the reviews in so far seem to suggest we were all right. The game just isn't an epic, in fact it is average at best, e.g.

 

http://www.destructoid.com/review-dust-514-253697.phtml

 

Now, as we all know it bolts onto the EVE game as a sort of PS3 shooter expansion. The choice in PS3 was questioned from the start as it is at odds with the EVE platform of PC only. People, why didn't CCP make a console port of EVE? Why not a PC version of Dust at launch.

 

Finally, it hits in the wake of Planetside 2, which is a good game.

 

As always everyone. feel free to post your thoughts on Dust. Is it actually a good game, or has the turkey finally landed for CCP.

 

First off, it's not decent for a review to start off judging the game based on the fact it didnt release on PC, just because of IP. Lots of good games also are console exclusives.

second of all, it's wrong to compare Dust 514 to Planetside 2. 

Why? 

Because 1 is a MMOFPS (Planetside 2) ,,, and the other is a traditional lobby shooter(Dust 514) 

they not the same genre. Dust 514 isn't a MMO. Each match has a limit like any other lobby FPS.

planetside 2 you are fighting in a world that never ends until server shut down. So comparing the two in a review is bias in a wrongful way.

Trion world, like many developers in the MMO genre, waste resources on concepts that aim to please the vocal minority playerbase, which in the process turns away players of the silent majority.

This has plagued the genre for years now.

In Rift for example, back in early release and beta, the main complaint about the game was the grind in leveling and the quest hub model level grind. Well this seem like such a common complaint across the genre now with each new MMO that has levels.

When will developers catch on and realize this is a new generation of gamers who see things fun in a new way than the first MMO gamers. This actually apply to any genre of gaming or art in general. 

But what did Rift do, like most developers, they decided to listen to the vocal elite minority and made the leveling longer and more grindy. Come on... I personally believe that what ever new MMO do something that isn't level grinder nor PvP focused MMO will find huge success. And I am not talking hidden levels like TSW does.

Another thing. Macros. This was something that was part of the original Rift. Yes again a small minority complained about it, but I believe most of these people really didnt know what a "Macro" really is. When you see threads and topics calling Macros as a form of cheating, you can tell many people don't really know what macros are. I know this, because I also once didnt know what a macro was, just simply saw all that coding, and figured it was some kind of hacker stuff. So yes I can relate. But why revamp your game's original combat system for something new after the original had already gained you popularity? Again NGE of Rift, plain and simple. 

I can go on and on with this, so I will.

Why is it that new MMO's with all this tech are releasing less and less content? Again Rift released with a small world in Storm Legion and vanilla, but tired to fill the SL maps with boring mob grinds poorly disguised. It's time to realize that mob grinding just isn't popular anymore.

Same like all other grinds now days. It pushes players away.

SL, although introduced housing and capes, didnt introduced enough of a brand new feeling to mask the fact that most of the new game was the same grind that players of vanilla was already doing. Same issue that plagued WoW CATA. 

Another thing, if you going to make a game as a WoW like experience. Why leave out important aspects of WoW? Early on I liked that about Trion in the way they copy good ideas without shame, just like Blizzard does. But it started to show its shame and fear later on, when it abandoned the PvP aspect of the WoW, as well as adopting interesting idea concepts from other populr games like WoW does.

TLDR:::::::::TLDR

New aged MMO need to stop and realize first that gamers now days enjoy things differently than in the past.. Get rid of level grinds. It's useless. Stop the boring mob grind. Stop making changes to the game to appeal the the radical elite minority community. NGE never work.

Originally posted by TheScavenger
I really recommend Darkfall. Its pretty much like EVE, but Fantasy style like you are looking for. Its by the far the best MMO out right now, it is just so fun. Some bugs, but it was recently released so that is expected. But lots of people to gank and kill :D having a blast playing it.

Darkfall isn't a sandbox. It's a open world arena theme park PvP MMO. There is no sand to be a sand box. Just a box and FFA PvP. Very THEMEPARK like.

eve as a fantasy world would have a huge server world that constantly expands as more players enter. Similar to how fantasy MMORTS browser games do it.

also have a large crafting and gathering system that's moe advanced than eve since it will have more room to do things.

lots of skill trees, but in fantasy themed concepts. Lots of ships and ways to travel, such s land vehicle, sky vehicles and sea vehicles.