Originally posted by ZedTheRock

While I am going to be playing and I did purchase the $60 Founder pack to support the game it is in no way the best MMO ever.  It was a very fun game but it is limited in almost all deep MMO systems but hopefully with the Foundry it will extend the shelf life of the average Themepark MMO.

 

Open Beta for non-Founders is the 30th.

I think the foundry idea is great. That's about all I like about the game though. It does seem a bit shallow, but for the OP if they like it then I'm happy for them all the same.

Loved reading your piece. I can already tell you this game is not viable long term. I remember Tera and all the people touting that game as well. As you can see that did not go over to well. I bought that game just like I bought NWN.  Something about NWN just seems...idk shallow. I like the foundary idea, but it seems like to many things are gated behind the idea of the cash shop. Rightly so as the company must make money some how.

In answer to this thread however, I would say its more of a soft launch. To many things are at  play to call this just a beta. From this point on they are charging people money from the cash shop that alone I would think makes it a launch rather than a beta. In this instance just like in the instance of Path of Exile it just give the devs more time to tweak things as well as give people time to test the game...but they still have to make money. So it would probabaly be something like get the game up to this point, start charging for things and from that revenue go forward. Its funny however that the game can be a certain way and yet...have a fully functional cash shop.

Game wise I don't see it lasting long term. yes there will be people playing but for all intents and purposes it will be like Terra and Aion. I know I'll get disagrees from this and rightly so. Some people are passionate about games, sports, etc in which they can not stand back and see what is reality. However, that is neither here nor there and as such I can see why officially people want to say its stil beta..but unofficially we all know that its a soft launch. POE did the same thing. They would wipe characters after a certain time, however you could pay in their cash shop and still have character wipes until they reached open beta...which of course was a soft launch.

So in summary I'm in the middle on this. You can't in good conscience call it just a beta and can't really call it a launch because of the official beta tag...so I'm going with "Soft Launch"

Originally posted by waffleyone

Race to the level cap, through huge amounts of created world, so that you can play the endgame! Why are people racing to the level cap? Because the early game is just a hollow skinner box! Why just a skinner box? Because there isn't any real sense of accomplishment!

What?! Can't somebody develop a game where it's interesting and challenging from the start? Interesting and Challenging doesn't mean 'difficult' per se, not numerically rough or 'hardcore' or permadeath, just that you need to observe and learn and act, with an actual sense of accomplishment, rather than the ever accelerating skinner boxes. I've never made it to endgame in an MMO, and i've tried to do so in more than five, because leveling up and going to a new area never held my attention long enough. The faster I level, the faster I get bored.

Guild Wars 2, for all its possible merits, pissed me off and I quit in the leveling phase because it was too mind numbingly easy. I like Greatswords, and I played a warrior. I ran around, annihilating everything 8 levels higher than me, playing 1handed on a laptop while laying down on a couch with my head on a pillow. And i'm not good at MMOs, it was just that easy. Really, that game might as well only go up to level 16 because you only feel a difference every 5 levels anyway, and they go by fast enough for it.

Numeric inflation is failing as a means to keep people playing, which is why every fifth thread in this forum is "MMOS are Dying!". Offer real challenges earlier, real obstacles. Don't accelerate the hampster wheel, trying to make us think we're going somewhere by running faster. Slow us down. Give us obstacles. Challenge us. We don't need to be hit over the head with shovels all day long, we just need a reason to care why we're playing.

The hundreds of hours I've clocked in MMORPGs has provided me with less interest and accomplishment than any given five hours of Dark Souls or Starcraft, (Excluding soloing bosses in Tera). Somebody needs to get this shit right.

 

Edit: I'm going to pre-empt the "Go to a higher level area" argument by saying that numeric difficulty isn't challenging, doesn't carry accomplishment. Hit byootans git eckspee levuhl fahster git board kwikur.

I agree with you OP. If I had the funds I'd def try and make an MMO. But first what I would do is take some time off and study AI. Study it in a way that I could great a script for AI that would change within certain parameters. For example take wow for instance. If your fighting a boar in the woods...it just stands there and let you kill it. It doesn't really run,  there are no variables so to speak. Taken even further...if you are killing a bandit here and there is a bandit not 50ft away...shouln't the second bandit help the first.

So....after creating an AI that actually changed based on how people played and learned then I would create the world. Also with the AI i would creat characters with the limitations of being a person..what I mean is. your character would be created and they would start young, you would be taken care of and developed over time. You would even get sick and have certain aflictions like for instance maybe you have a disease that could kill your character after a certain amount of time. However I would broaden the game rules to account for that and give you a chance to cure yourself or something.

Quests-They would be firstly primitate. based off the needs of the person. For instance you would need to eat, sleep, etc. You would have to hunt, huting alone or with another person would probably increase your odds. This is where pvp would come in as other would hunt with others and kill others as well. Or I would have no pvp(however there would be loopholes) and have the character only have one life. after that you would have to start over. So this would encourage taking things flow and thinking about stuff and also group play.

the worl dwould be chaotic and I'd propably progress through eras...instead of zones. Ie for each expansion it would cover a certain time period progressivlely going forward from a prehistoric type age into a futuristic age., with stats and genes developing other characters. Something along those lines.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by jpnz
Probably because the world is setup as boxes with fixed portals. It just feels artificial and small.

^^^This.  I have the exact same issue when playing AoC or TSW, heck even EQ2.  It's that stupid non seamless world design, it just ruins the immersion.  Only one game ever broke that mold and that was FFXI, for some reason, those instanced zones were almost overly immersive, lol(not really, but you get the gist).

Every "zone" is basically a filled square/rectangle of content.  The content is fine, but the layout makes it feel confined and fake.  Of course another horrible way would have been the WAR way, 2 linear paths running perpendicular to each other with a big space in the middle for PVP.  Crappy world/zone design there as well.  Gotta have crap cross over and in and out and be more geographically sound.  In other words more haphazard and non shape specific.  I think Lotro and WoW handle this fairly well.

even in wow though what does it matter if it was seamless or zoned with loading screen? everything that happens PVE wise  is contained to that specific zone things didn't spill over and effect multiple zones(at least during vanilla didn't play much after that) I didn't play lotro much so can't comment on that... overall i never found it mattered if the games seamless zones or not as everything was contained within the zone anyway so it didn't make a whole lot of difference overall in that aspect.. now what goes on in the zone is another matter.. are there battles going on are there constant skirmishes between npcs and faction wars going on inside each zone that makes them feel alive.. to me this is where gw2 nailed the immersion feeling for me

You know what they need in terms of zones. I find seemless zones to be the way to go...kind of like vanguard. However to piggy back on your point about containment. I would approach zone creation like the world we are living in now. Say for instance if you go from one city to the next , sometimes the only way you know its a diff city is of course via map or signs. TSW could have used this concept. I think they have it where you ahve a loadign screen I feel that takes away from teh game. It should feel that there is no break in going from one place to the next. 

There is a problem however when dealing with a seemless world and that is resource allocation. I would think having a seemless world would be more intensive for the devs and the players. Personally I think if one MMo company that had say 300+million would do very well if they took their time, and say used graphics that looked like Aion or Tera. Had teh combat of Tera or GW2, but had lore like Everquest.  Also somewhere in there it would need some sanbox elements but with a heavy penalty that would almost virtually keep people from griefing...I think wushu has something liek that where you can get thrown in jail for actual days.

Immersion wise certain things would have to spill over to other "zones" and have effects in that zone. For instance if you didnt put out a fire in zone A it could potentially spread to Zone B. Also what should happen is taking the reins from the devs and having a program make up play withing boundaries for the consumer. Adaptable play is what I would call it...I feel that is where games are going to have to go. People awnt a challenge and they need unpredictability in their games. Give them that and I think people would come in spades.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Sijjistoryus
This is why it's important to have player-generated content as well as game content.

i agree and its still odd to me how so many games release with 0 systems in place for player made content.. and many that do add it like housing for instance usually do it well down the line in the games lifespan.. really why I'm looking forward to NW and hoping their new foundry system is worth putting time into

Played the Beta to NW. From what I played I don't see it becoming a sleeper hit. I might be wrong but...

I think the concept of the foundry is a great idea. It gives players something to do  and the devs leeway in terms of non player made content. I think games like wow, rift, gw2 do not have a base system set up for that. What would be really nice is if there was an MMO, with all the parts necessary to function in  a changing environment.

Player made content

Pvp as part of the game not tacked on

One world, or a variation of this.

Leveling should be slowed, but there should be sub leveling sort of like the mini-dings in EQ2.

With sub leveling there should be something that you get in between to keep people moving. Perhaps dungeons level requirements, and you have to progress in the dungeon to unlock the next tier of your leveling process like FF11.

Great story and Lore

Players should start the game with nothing. I really dont understand how a player can start the game with items already. Picture them shipwrecked on an island or something with nothing but cloth. All mechanics are taught until you become proficient at them.

No FFA PVP. unless its done right. if you cant stop griefing then at the least have a FFA server and non FFA server.

Housing.

You know just have one big ass dungeon in the middle of nowhere with say 100+ floors. and the player builds pretty much everything else. around that dungeon.

Originally posted by delete5230

I'm willing to bet anything that if some developer made an mmo that was strictly server based,very very hard, no dungeon finders and had to work for everything you did IT WOULD BE THE MOST POPULAR MMO TO DATE.  It would keep the community longer reguardless of speed of updates and expantions.

Community drives people to log in after the romance is over.

Reguardless of what many people say here, I 100% beleave that the developers are acting on there own with the easy fast tools they are giving us. And for the ones that disagree....I think you wold change your mind and love a hard slow mmo with a fixed community...It would keep your hart pumping to play with the good and bad players every day.

I like the idea of a hard game. They would need to get rid of levels though.  I would also like an adapting program that changed things around so that the player could not map out strategies to certain events.

I don't think dungeon finder is bad. Maybe with a stipulation of passing the dungeon once or something. Or better yet a reason to go to a dungeon in the first place. like for instance in order to get past level 10 you had to venture in the dungeon. Core skills, or something of importance to the player.

Player should start out with nothing, no hearth, money, clothes, weapons...and just thrown into the world to figure it out.

Originally posted by tordurbar

How many real life friends do you have? Most people have one or two. It is the same situation as guilds/communities in mmos. A true, real friend in life is as rare as a guild that fits you perfectly. I used to join guilds a lot and out of the dozens that I joined I stuck with only two of them for more than a year. In one case I had to move off the server and in the other the guild dissolved due to the founders had to quit. Since then, not being a raider or pvp zealot, I have found nothing. All of the casual guilds that I joined soon turned hard core, fell apart or ignored me. Of course it is part me - but I stuck with two guilds so maybe not so much.

As mentioned above, it is not the developers that are against communities, it is the players. I played WOW for 7 years and came back for a time with MOP. The MOP community was almost virulent. The chat is full of hard core raiders, hard core pvp or rants. Legends tell of Barrens chat but at least we had Chuck Norris jokes - now it is just insults.

Developers do have part of the blame. Now there are more guild perks than ever. What this has caused is that casual guilds are no longer casual. if you do not do everything you can to move the guild to a higher level you are essentially ignored or kicked out.

What is happening in mmo's is just a reflection of what is happening in the world. The world as a whole is becoming more dog eat dog as population soars and the world economy collapses. Yes there are pockets of civility in the world and there are some in mmos as well - they are just extremely hard to find.

I would agree, let me add that civility is an illusion. We are human being and as such when the shit hits the fan it will be every person to himself. There will be pockets of people banding together because they are family and friends. However when people are faced with death, decay, starvation they will do anything and I do mean anything to survive.

Communication in MMO's I have to agree has fallen. I will not blame the developers though. That's like blaming the people who make cell phones for the addition of texting. I remember when you just text a simple sentence. Now you text paragraphys, conversations...no talking and when you call the person they have nothing to say. What is that...

Guilds in order to succeed needs a form of committment to the over all goal. If you don't do the guild dailies there are no reprocussions. People stick together because they ultimately need each other to survive. Not many people can survive on their own with no assistance. Games used to be heavily group oriented back then. Now its more so single player. We as gamers have grown up and what has happened...we needed to get jobs  and the gaming industry changed in order to compensate for that which then leads into the generation behind us not knowing what it feels like to "E- work" for something lol.

We as older games are to blame but not by choice but by the fact that we have changed and the industry needed to change as well in order to support our evolving demands.

sorry for sloppy wording and mistakes...sleepy

I like the game. There are certain things in D3 I really enjoy as well. Only have two complaints or gripes as you will about D3. First it's the Auction House and secondly  randomization of levels. Other than that I really enjoyed the character classes. I would say between D3, TL2, and POE D3 has the better classes. However Who knows what might happen when they finally release the full TL2 mods. I know synergy has a necromancer and other very nice additions. I love TL2 because of the modding and might actually mod some things myself when the full tools come out.

PoE I think is a pretty solid game. Love the atmosphere, music, etc. I don't really have any gripes with the game. You just have to take your time with it you know, because you can easily make a mistake and mess up your character. I personally enjoyed it a lot just did not like my character being wiped. So now that beta begins tomorrow I look forward to making a new one and seeing where it takes me.

Currently waiting for the Marvel Arpg and Grim Dawn.

Oh also I think PoE or any Arpg has a long way to go to unseat Diablo. Simply because it's Diablo. Nostalgia keeps people hoping and wishing for that game to be better than it is. If Blizzard actually made a great expansion I could see all past things being erased. Personally I don't see that happening.

Originally posted by rutaq

I N S T I N C T is doing great 50+ active players, we have a good spread of levels and the higher folks have just started the newest expansion content.

 

Also we are doing a special project, a Progression Team that will be starting up in a week.  We will be picking a couple nights a week to play in a dedicated group of Alts to run through all the EQ2 Raid content,  level locking at each tier to ensure that we have a solid group to and challenging content.

Hey I'm interested in play Everquest 2. Last time i tried it I didn't know anyone so I quickly lost interest. However I thought it was  great game. Personally I love the fact that they have a crap load of pets. That to me is the most fun aspect. So I have a question.

1. If I wanted to start what would be the right expansions to buy?

2. Could I possibly join this guild you are in so that I have someone else to adventure with?

3. Is there anything I should know before I buy? Tips so to speak.

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

Pathfinder Online: A Fantasy Sandbox MMO

SANDBOX FEATURES @ A GLANCE:

 

• Player-Player Contracts - replace quests

• Player formed factions - all/any eg as per EVE

• Skill-Training Progression -> 2.5yrs to max level earliest in x1 role only

• Player created settlements -> Each Hex (256) can be conquered and controlled

• Player formed Armies -> Real formations

• Virtual Economy -> full-blown autonomous economy (not simulated)

• Player Crafting item production and PvE Resource Cycle (maj. item creation by players)

• Career Skills as well as Combat Skills (bounty-hunter, bandit, diplomat, tavern owner...)

• Alignment, Reputation, Politics & Open-World PvP (EVE style again)

• NPC Alliances (changes which mobs are friend/foe

• Single-server World map - all game story is shared by all players

...

& more at the blogs: https://goblinworks.com/blog/

 

Updates:

Update #29: UNITY

Update #30: MAC SUPPORT

Looks interesting. I do have a question though. If they don't succeed on their kickstarter can they do a new one? Also if they don't get the funds what does it mean in terms of the game, will it be released or must it will take longer to do so?

Originally posted by ashleymorrow

I know that in time I will enjoy the game less, that's just the nature of everything in life. What is novel at first eventually becomes mundane. But for now I am having a great time. My background in gaming is not extensive. The only games I played for six months or more have been EQ2, SWtOR, and TSW. I feel fairly sure that GW2 will be joining that club.

 

So, if you're on the fence about buying it, here are the thoughts of a new player:

 

1) Character Creation: This element of any game is pretty important to me. If I don't have a 'beautiful' or 'dashing' looking avatar I find it very hard to get enthused. GW2 has the best character creator outside of Eve imo. Eve's is clearly better, but you can't interact with other people so I don't think it should count. 

A distinctive name is another small item that is super important to me. GW2 is the first game I have played that took the absolutely best approach and allows you to create names like 'Lily Stargazer' or 'Basher The Beast'. Despite millions of people having created characters I was able to get a name that I genuinely appreciated (Pandora Winter) in less than a minute.

My score: 9/10. I would give it a 10, but it seems that once you enter the actual game world your features become a little softer, probably for FPS reasons. Still, I love the way my character looks.

 

2) Beautiful Game World: Without a doubt, best cities I've ever seen (remember I am not an expert and my game past is limited). The main city is filled with NPCs and really seems alive. The country side I have seen so far has been less impressive than the cities but still very well done. The different geographic formations (mountains, swamps, etc.) really do exude the ambiance you would expect from such a locale.

MS: 8/10

 

3) Easy Questing: You never have to join a group, or at least I haven't in my first 13 levels. I have no idea about the endgame, but then I rarely get to the endgame so that is not a priority to me. The quest givers are easy to find, the goals are clear, and just by being in the same proximity of other players you are automatically grouped for whatever event is occuring. When it's over there is no painful seperation, you just go find something else to do.

 

MS: 8/10

 

4) Crafting: I loved the crafting in EQ2, but GW2 has the best crafting I have seen yet. It is easy, intuitive, and from the start you can make useful items. Gathering materials is done by harvesting nodes that only you have access to! No more disapointment from seeing some ore, running to it, and then being beaten to the punch by one second by another player. 

 

MS: 10/10

 

5) Community: The Community is very friendly (I'm on Crystal Desert) and any questions I have had have been answered quickly and politely. I have not had a lot of interaction with my fellow players as I am still trying to get my newbie legs, but some very friendly, down to earth folk seem to be the norm.

 

MS: 10/10

 

6) Ease of Use: Very polished interface. I need to print up a game manual, and I do wish that some features were explained  more clearly with a mouse over such as the character stats, but small things like that are easily rectified by doing a google search.  And despite that single, small flaw, there are so many innovations that the pros seriously outweigh the cons. The game designers obviously put fun first! Instead of running to a bank when my bags are full I can clear out inventory when away from the city with a single click that deposits collectables for me - just one example of many.

 

MS: 8/10.

 

7) Fun: I am truly enjoying myself. This is not a morally ambiguous game. You are the hero. You do the right thing. You help the poor and oppressed and defeat the bad guys. While some may see that as shallow, I actually appreciate the change of pace. It feels nice to be the good guy!

 

MS: 10/10.

 

So, those are my initial impressions and opinions. I still have a lot to learn, I have not gone beyond the starting zone, and my highest character is level 13. There may be serious issues later in the game, I don't know. All I do know is that I am really enjoying this relaxing, entertaining game for now. Easily worth the one time cost in terms of return on my investment. If you are looking for a highly polished, beautiful world I strongly recommend it. 

Oh hey question for you. I see that you tried TSW. I just couldn't bring myself to pay for a sub for that game even though I loved the idea of it. What were your thoughts on it if you don't mind me asking?

Also yeah GW2...hmm I wish the world for this game but for some reason something is off. I'm currently playing torchlight 2 as well as Rift. GW2 I come back to here and again but I'm also waiting on FF14 reborn so see if I can get that RPG spark back. If not I'll probably go back to playing console RPGs instead.

Till that time however I split my time between Rift, GW2 and Torch light 2. GW2 has taken the backburner after I got to 80 on my norn ranger...I have a lot of other characters that I would love to level but just can't seem to get the motivation for it. Perhaps if they add something that makes exploring worth it. Or perhaps something to make my character actually feel like they are powerful or something. Or who knows perhaps I'll come back just to casually level one of them up.

Grats on your enjoyment I think its a good game, but instead of adding fluff they should but more depth into the game. You know switch some systems around or something. Add more skills, redo the pets, make the classes more viable. They feel kind of...hmm...shallow. I think I might come back for the pvp though as I loved that part.

Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Mr_C

If WoW offered ways to achieve all gear with solo play, I would return instantly.

What prevents you from just ignoring that raid and dungeon gear exists?  What play requires raid gear other than raids? 

( I'm asking sincerely because it's a question I ask myself too in some games - if I want to just play within my prefered playstyle, why do I have trouble simply ignoring the fact that those other parts of the game, that I don't want to play, exist? )

Honestly there should be a way to get the raid gear and not raid. Perhaps say change it to a different gear name. Nothing should be achieved without hard work, at say the same pace as a raider with a fail ration thrown in there as well. Raiding is fun and I love it, but it does seem sad to only have a handful of people see that content. In Rift they have chronicles which I enjoy because it at least gives you a view of the raid dungeons. Granted I think raiding should stay but there should be an advancement in raiding as the form is just to rigid now. It should not be easy at all quite possibly a solo boss that learns from the player and gets tougher as you go along or something like "Mat (I think that was his name) from FF11 who was a dirty old man who you had to defeat in order to get your uber skill. So you had to pack potions and strategy and hope that he didn't do a certain combination or you were screwed.

Originally posted by LadyEuphei
This thread should be closed on a mmo forum. This is rediculous. No mmo should be soloable, it is just AGH! I need to breathe...seriously this idea is rediculous and it makes no sense. If you want to solo and be by yourself go play a multiplayer card game in a corner with your imaginary friends.... 

I think you're taking what the OP is saying out of proportion. I believe what he is saying is, why not just go full single player although you would still have social aspects. But to put it in a different way take FF11 for instance. When that game came out  you had to group for practically everything. I don't think that is the case any longer. I've been wondering this for awhile myself. Why not just make it grouping again or is this genre trying to do a balancing act because if so its kind of weird. Personally I don't agree to the tune that it should be full single player but I see his point on how odd it is to run from 1-80 on a toon only to then have to group up. Why then have the leveling process if the end game is practially all about grouping in higher level content.

Let us take it one step forward and say this. High level people should have a reason to go back to the lower level zones. Who knows random bosses, random spawning dungeons or something. A mixture of epic loot and also skins, mounts, titles, companion pets, and pet skins being the things that dropped. That way perhaps we could begin to solve the problem of a game getting years tacked on to it only to have the lower level zones practically empty and the newer players not wanting to join the game from fear of not having anyone to do the content with.

Perhaps get rid of quests or something. I'm not sure what you could put in place of it because you really do need that carrot on a stick to keep people plugging along. Also perhaps two experience bars kinda of like what Rift is doing with planar and regular experience. Its like a mini carrot you know the little baby carrots that taste good with ranch dressing...lol.

So in short perhaps after thought I owe you an apology and thusly say, I agree partly with the both of you because both parts have merit and both so desperately need to be addressed.

You know I would love to play this game. I used to play it back in the days but it always felt like I didnt belong. Kind of like coming to the party very late you know and you get that feeling like all the fun stuff has already happend. Also I don't know anyone that plays so it bugs me you know that everyone is established and I would be all by my lonesome trying to figure things out.

I do have a couple questions though. If I were to say get this game are there certain expansion packs I should get as well?

Is there a certain server I should be on because I really want to find a place where the community is great. One thing I have to say that GW2 is lacking is that community aspect and that is just to much of a turn off to me.

EQ2 is like the bigger more established brother of Rift and I love Rift. I can look up the info but just a good place to start you know where I could meet like minded cool people.

Another thing I like about the game is the pet classes have so many skins for their pets. I love that aspect.

So if anyone could perhaps answer my question or maybe even better point me to a useful thread that would be very nice.

Also congrats on your return OP, friends do make any experience so much better.

Originally posted by roo67

Originally posted by teotius
And the point of this post is?

thought it was pretty obvious . Guess not so let me spell it out so someone like you can understand it .

THE =(used, especially before a noun with a specifying or particularizing effect, as opposed to the indefinite or generalizing fforce of the indefinite article a or an ): the book you gave me; Come into the house.

QUEST=a search or pursuit made in order to find or obtain something: a quest for uranium mines; a quest for knowledge.

CHAIN=a series of things connected or following in succession: a chain of events.

IS=3rd person singular present indicative of  be

BROKEN=not functioning properly; out of working order.

 

Got it now ? lol . If you havn't then I feel sorry for you because your obviously incapable of understanding the simplest things .

/narrows eyes and claps menancingly...touche" mothe$%^#$%...touche" lol