. GW2 i dont think will have this appeal , People who play console games or casual games have no idea what guild wars is. So just putting in my 2 cents on this .

funny that! cause guild wars 1 wasnt on the console either and that game was huge!  huge doesnt mean good! but it was a very busy place to play and it was barely even concidered an mmo.

wow i just got to thinking! wouldnt it be odd if business's where actually running at a loss! i mean swtor for example made alot of money from its launch muh more than it cost to create the game!! all those millions of players queing up for the best thing since sliced bread!, it really must be the best game out there for them to make all there money back in just the first month of release! but then another part of me keeps popping up in the back of my head!! my bussiness sense and it keeps saying! well swtor was only developed so the people developing it could turn a proffit in the first place. its really wierd how some peoples minds work!

whwy would bioware and EA create a product and spend five years doing so!! if they had no intention of making lots of money of of it! hmm why would they spend so much money on adevertiseing if they didnt know how many copies they would sell! and i think the most important question is why would they make a game seems so much like another extremely successful title in regaurds to income and proffit!! im just knocking ideas around here but i think it has something to do with makeing money and a quick turn around with a likely possibility of a slow trickle of fund afterwards!!

i doubt very much that they care alot for how we all think the game sux or not whyile they are making the money they do! they dont think long term but they will sell you long term in the hope you buy into it!  after if you swallow the whole long term development crap your just simply paying their wages and bills so they can keep driving round in there wicked cool cars and living in there really nice houses!! and for what!! a mediocre game with a fantastic name that sells its self.

you muppets!! lol 

swtor is not a success!! if it was a success it would'nt have dwindling numbers would it now!!! just stop your fan boi approach for a momment and take time to actually see the reality!   at start!! the game servers ! i.e. all of them where full to copacity! now they are mostly light most of the time with the odd one at heavy load,,

that my friends is indication of a failing game!  it cannot retain its player base because the game doesnt offer enough, bioware mainly EA'S fault speant so long on polish and voice over and size they totally forgot about content game play and userbility. and the result is a rather empty shell of a starwars game  AT THE START!!

in time the game has 2 and only 2 dirrections it could turn to. one would be the wow style themepark which it already emulates so well and is probably the soul reason its flopping right now!! or it will turn to the sandbox style game which is what it really needs to do! sand box type games havnt been explored enough by the developers who have the collateral to do so! all we see usually are indy sandbox's like eve online!! with enough cash flow and backing swtor could easily be the greatest game devloped but it needs a whole rework!

it needs to loose its ohso obvious we copied wow look and feel.

i've played a whole ton of mmo's and i can tell you now!!!! swtor has done nothing!! that no other mmo hasnt already done before in the past!! there is absolutely nothing inovative about swtor what so ever, there is nothing, none of you can tell me otherwise because i already know!! i have the vast experience of playing many many many mmo's to sit here and state that swtor has done absolutely nothing new or inovative.

however!!!

they have improved on a few things.. i.e. graphics are clean and animations are smooth!! sure its not completely seemless but a large portion of the game has the illusion of seemlessness which is a good start! hardly any mmo games have seemless transitions if not any at all!! one i can think of where i didnt notice loading screens so much was lotro and lets not forget the imaculate and inovative eve online!!! now eve is inovative compaired to every other mmo out there!, there is nothing else like eve on the market but their are a million wow clones and swtor is just another one! ....

my wish list for swtor -

1/ get rid of that disgusting and distasteful space aspect of the game and replace it with something a little more swg jump to light speed, include multiplayer corvette class ships and make space a multi player aspect of the game!! this is just one step towards the game earning its mmo title.

2/  remove companions and create additional classes for crafting, give the players a much broader array of class options and playability within this new starwars universe!.

3/ make the game seemless so when you leave the planet you see the entire animation of your ship leaving the star port  rather than cutscenes in stages as it leaves then a black screen and wham your in space!!! it has to change. they cant claim emersion with shit like that!.

4/ crafting needs to be complex and deep

5/ get rid of the whole best items come from instance bullshit because it is just bullshit and it ruins mmo's, i utterly hate having to grind the same dogshit flashpoints time and time again for orrange mod geer!!!!! its totaly shit!!!.

6/ give us an option to disable voice over!!! its tedious long winded and a pain in the arse!!! and some times it takes ages for the conversations to initiate.  take them out of the game!!! there is no place for voice over in mmo's people prefer to read or just skip through the boreing dribble!!

7/ remove current combat!!! its bog standard post 1990's typical key mashing shit!! no skill required you just tab target and whack the keys till it or you dies.

8/ sharpen up responsivness of mouse and skills. make it so that when we click the skill or move the mouse the action actually happens rather than a 5 second delay like it is now!!!

9/ fix the cursor dissapearing of the screen crap too!!! there is nothing more annoying than having your cursor vanish in game.

10/ increase group size to 6 maybe 8!!!! no mmo does 4 man groups and no!!! its not inavation its simply lazy and uneducated attemtps at mmo development!!! its how wow came to be!!! lazy people making a lazy game!!!!

11/ add more content for guilds so guilds are viable!!! too many games underthink guild systems. why join a guild if all your going to do is organise instance bashing with 3 other friends ??? kinda boreing really isnt it ?? guilds need more options such as guild capital ships lots of guild controls so the leader can actually lead the guild!! also diplomacy wouldnt go a miss either, ingame polotics too wouldnt be a bad idea!!!

12/ stop the whole good v evil light v dark crap!! sure we get it sith are bad jedi are evil!!! but what about other factions in the starwars universe!!! the hutts the mandolorians!!  why is the game limited in such ways!! why are there only 3 classes per faction  yes thats right jedi consular and jedi knight are the same class!!!!! they are jedi ;)  dont be a bunch of muppets by calling them seperate classes cause they aint!!! all it is, is bioware being lazy and just filling gaps.

13/ larger maps and viable and worthwhile reasons to explore!!! datacrons are not the answer i wont be hunting them down as its tedious shit for hardly anything worthwhile.  

ok im going to stop or ill have a post with over 100 issues i would want to see changed!!! so ill just leave these few basic ideas out there that ive taken from many of the mmo's i play and have played in the past!! im not one of those folk who know only wow eq2 and aoc!! or is limited to the knowledge of just a handful of mmo's nope!!! ive been playing a while now and ive seen lots of things tried!! sure lots of it was a pile of crap and only small things stoodf out that impressed me!!  swtor just has a lot of the crap things from other games that we are all so used to seeing and they call it inovation!!! i call it copying some one elses work!...

the most inovative and diffrent and refreshing mmo out there is eve online! its just so so diffrent compaired to the conventional run oof the mill mmo.. and no swtor is not a sandbox!! its only just a themepark!  its just a linear wow clone where you are held by the hand and lead through the game!! nothing to discover as its all handed to you on a plate as you progress..

and once you reach end game!! thats it nothing to do, pvp in swtor is crap too!! its just pre-maade lvl 50 groups owning, so if your not 50 and you dont have the best pvp armour and weapons you might as well forget it. sure you can que solo but you end up just being in some random pug and being massacred by the pre-mades.  pvp in swtor is very dull.

pvp should never be a viable end game thing anyway!!! it only occupies you for so long!! my idea of end game is a living breathing realistic game world where players can make an impact on one anothers game experience by working together forming guilds and takeing part in polotics crafting and diplomatic aspects of an online game world.  all swtor offers is lvl 50 and pvp and end game instances untill you have all the best armour sets.  so yea not very inovative at all!!! not really.

its new money for old rope.

heres an idea im gonna throw out there lol!!!!

if having seperate server forums is such a big deal!!! why dont bioware create them and assign players as moderators to the forums on a voluntary basis!! obviously they would still need to get through a rigorous interview first before they get the job. 

this way bioware does jack shit still and they dont have to pay staff and because the player loves the game!!!! they dont have to worry about a qaulity service either. we all win this way..  you all get your forums!!! we all get peace and quiet and the fan bois get another starwars feature for their community love. And EA

[Mod Edit]

such a wow excuse.. retail sales plumet but it might be because of digital sales lmfao!!!! or it could just be that every one that has been having sleepless nights  and dreams of grandure over this game finally had a crushing blow when they actually got to play it!! and all they have to say now is bad things...

now it doesnt take a genius to work out that negative feedback gets about!! i for one didnt buy swtor after beta purely because my experience and the never ending negative comments from the so called swtor lovers.

im no hater but i do know a fail game when i see one. the biggest problem with swtor is EA !!! get rid of EA  and then the game might stand a chance. while EA is paying the wage bill the game will suck docky balls  its why space is so shite. its why classes are mirrored its why it feels like your having your hand held through the quests !! it why you dont actually explore you just follow pathes laid out before you.. thats right !!! ITS THE EA calling card. all those worlds and not one of them is actually world size lol.  galaxy is in space so how come space isnt the main defining factor of swtor ???? it doesnt make sence for it to be just a crappy little mini game.. in all the films which are the main and one and only true point of reference for the starwars saga , space is the main stage where everything is set and played out. panets are in space the cast travel through space and fight in space and spend alot of time in space.. so how come with a starwars game there isnt a great deal of space at all. ???? because they didnt .. correction wasnt allowed to put effort into the most crucial parts of the game.  it is just another wow clone. who the hell wants to sit through hours and hours of voice over in an mmo game. ??? errrr maybe once maybe not even right through to the end game.. oh shit!!!!! did i say end game ???? there we go look another pathetic wow machanic !! end game in an mmo how much more retarded can these online games become..  end game = stop playing play something else  :) end game = ored of swtor.  end game = fed up of the same instances and raids. end game =dont belong in an mmo. mmo's that im used to are persistant living breathing worlds where you have a connection with your charecter and other players in the game world. a reason to log in and something to actually play for.    swtor offers the same thing as wow

gear grind

level grind

pvp arenas

umm and thats about it.

see boreing.

oh sorry i almost forgot instances!! agh shit did i do a swear word!!! im sorry i meant flashpoints :)

i think your wrong op!! its not either space or fantasy we need!!! i say we need 10 years of realism in our mmo's!! im not saying  lots of spread sheets or really complex game mechanics, im talking seemless transition truely inovative imaginitive development!! we need a games developer to think for them selves and stop copying what aready works MONEY WISE!!!! we gamers do not care how much money a games developer makes or how many people play a certain game, these things are not the be all and end all of an mmo and it does not define our choice in what we play!!!

hang on!!! do we really play games because every one else is playing them !! or do we have our own minds ? 

we have no choices we either have to play mmo fantasy games or well mmo fantasy games, there are a few exceptions such as eve online as an example  and mortal online.  i mean come on !! whats actually diffrent about these games in comparison to games such as wow and lotro. its as the op said!! no bloody elves !!! mortal may have dragons but i havnt found any yet. but mortal does have a slight realistic feel about it and so does eve online.  ive played the whole wow thing and lotro thing ive been an elf and slew a few dragons too. cast magic spells and ran instances and raids and its really really really samey and boreing!! im fed up with it!! so i started to play eve!!! ........ 6 years later with eve as my only game that i play :) ive started to realise that the games available to people are not even half the games they should be and could be!! im not useing eve as a bench mark but the freedom eve offers to the player!! the sheer scope of the play style customisation that the game gives to the player is just astonishing.  unlike other games, in eve your not restricted to a single class and you dont have to grind through a tedious quest chain following a somewhat long dull and boreing story  that doesnt allways make sence!! no no in eve you get to make your own story!! its just like living in the game!! sure some people take it a bit to seriously and end up treating it like a job while others have managed to find the fine line between work and play in eve!!

i think all games should strive to bring a fuller and more complete and open ended experience to the players.

there is nothing more disgusting in an massive multiplayer online game!!!  than an mmo that isnt persistant and has an ending!! mmo's should not have end game!! they never used to have!!   its the children from the console era thats brought around the end game scenario within mmo's and its definately ruined the industry!!  the developers today are too young to know any diffrent and all they have to go on are the games they have available and what their bosses use as their companies bench marks!! and thats exactly why all games play feel look and mimic wow.

people have no idea that wow is sub par and not really a good game!! its just the best game available to them at present, namely because developers are more interested in a fast profit than they are in a qaulity lasting product!! the last great game to leave the mmo genre was starwars galaxies. it was huge deep emersive and envolving. it was complex enough to make you think and challangeing enough to make you group with other people !! and the world was pretty and fairly persistant. well in terms of player houseing and planetary events. 

to improve on swg and to truely create an epic game they must be of the following stats -

emersive

enveloping

deep

complex

seemless transitions

no loading screens

persistancy

inovative

full of new and old ideas

no main quest chain or story arc driving you

no hand holding quests

truely exploreable game world with things worth finding

an active ingame dev team which constantly changes things in the game to give a feeling of world life (we pay to play, so they should earn the money we pay them)

no help screens or ticket systems! ( must be ingame mods with the power to fix and solve issues)

interactable objects

player vehicles houses towns shops and cities completely free form type control.

a vibrant and living economy ( not the silly auction houses you are all accustom too)

and effort with some imagination!! no more of this copy paste bullshit we are seeing.

we ahve allplayed wow lots of people like it because they havnt experienced better!!! but many people dont like it that have played better and know wow is just a marketing ploy!  its meant to take your money and trick you ento enjoyment and it does just that!!  games like wow are rushed out the door to turn a quick buck!! once the game starts to do bad!! as we have all seen it gets revamped and rereleased just like wow and lotro and sto have been!! again just examples of fail games that have managed to get a second chance and in wows case a third and fourth chance!!.  

im going to bring you back to eve online again!! this game gives you expansions and updates and maintence and ingame help round the clock ! and all you have to do is pay a one off monthly fee!! if you know how to play eve the game is designed to be free. i play eve for nothing because i know how to make the game work for me.  eve also offers far far far more than the wow and its clones too.  im very surprised it doesnt have a huge population!! infact i know why :) its because eve isnt over advertised like wow. eve doesnt ram its self down your throat and eve doesnt miss sell itself.  again eve is just an example and one that i know pretty well. people will argue that eve and wow are not compairable !!! but they are!! its the style. one style is incredibly lazy and used to lure in unsuspecting players who dont know any better and one isnt. ill let you work out which is which.

i vote no !!!!!! to more wow clones.. for me that genre of mmo is dead and buried i will never ever play another wow clone and that puts swtor directly off my list as thats just another wow clone. same idea same plan same style same game type.. its a sure thing and developers know it!! you all will pay through your arses untill your bored and then you will stop!! just like you did with wow. the game offers nothing new or inventive there is no ingenuity and if we really want the fourth pillar lol!!!! we can go play icewind dale or baldurs gate for that!! or even kotor 1 and 2.  swtor is just an embarresment to bioware forced upon them by a bad decision when they sided with EA. the result is yet another wow clone.  all that hype and anticipation for another dissapointment. 5 years of it too lol. such a waste of time.

bring back swg please!!!

im gonna take a wild guess that skyrim is far better on the pc than it is on the xbox. im really bored of it already!!! way to many npc's with the same war wounds!! im surprised their isnt a shortage of arrows.

other than well killing undead and bandits there really isnt a great deal to do!!! you get the option to be either imperial or rebel whoopeee doo!!! and there are a few sub factions you can become a memeber of such as the companions!! but it is all just the same old thing all the way through the game!!!

dragon slaying is pointless and the thummmm what ever that last minute cant think of a good prop thing is! is just well ....... pointless. who actually uses anything other than unrelenting force!! infact im starting to feel more like a jedi each time i play the game .

no im sorry i cant say skyrim is a great game!! its ok but thats about it. sure it looks fantastic but we dont play looks do we!! we play games. and their isnt much game in skyrim!! also the mounts are pointless too and the travel wagons!! crafting is pointless.. infact the most useful thing ive found in the game is enchanting.

now here are my what ifs!!!!

what if -

skyrim was an mmo ?

skyrim had the option of more resources

the option of building your own fort/keep/town and working it to encourage npc's to come settle there!!!

skyrim had an multiplayer option so you wasnt the only one running about the world

you could fight from horse back

npc gaurds had diffrent injurys other than arrows in their knees.

as it stands skyrim feels linear at best!! FOLLOW QUESTS ! of pretty much exactly the same content and endings.  kill the bad guys whack the boss loot the chest lol  i know you all know what im talking about ;)

so yea ill leave that with ya!!  skyim is ok but not really worth ranting on about.

Originally posted by just1opinion

I'm glad I read this thread.  I've been thinking about gettting Skyrim from Direct2Drive, but it sounds like it's about in the same condition as Oblivion was at release.  Soooooo.....that means that THIS momma is gonna wait until modders have at it.  I'm looking forward to when the game is a little more "filled out," so to speak.  I appreciate everyone's candor in this thread.

oh your so miss judging the game!!! its fantastic as it is!! these guys are just wishful elitism thinking, you should get it now!! it is in very very good shape right now. ive been playing solid for 5 days now and ive barely scratched the surface. i just got married lol... own 3 houses and you can move your wife around each one, ive been nominated a thane of 3 diffrent towns and i have my very own housecarl. wench with weapons :P its good go buy it.

1.  Ability to build a town from scratch buy wood cutting and qaurrying, and inviteing your new friends from around skyrim to live in your town, set up shops construct defencive walls and hire mercs to protect the town.

2. fighting from horse back and talking

3. make being a werewolf useful. sure its fun to changed once for about 20 seconds every day booo,, make it so we are were wolves every night and not by choice.  also add ability to become a vampire. 

4. add more armour types for cosmetic purposes. full plate is just ugly.

5. add the ability to become a jarl and have people live in your own town set your own emblems on your standard custome create your own town gaurds apearance.

6. make magice useful and fun.. its boreing and pretty much unused.

still havnt worked out what exactly i get for slaying dragons!!! havnt noticed any kind of advantage.

make the game world more persistant, for example when i chop wood it would be nice if remained chopped.

war is ok!! and by no means fantastic or great, it could be though!! all they need to do is reign back on the rvr and start working more on the pve aspect of the game, maybe even make the pve side to the game slightly sand box, allow guilds to construct keeps of their own in pve territory and introduce resources and crafting into the game.

as it stands war is to put it simple! pvp onle. the pve content is utterly pointless as it is. the loot is not useful in any way, and the quests are so lonely due to the poor rewards that no one really does the pve aspect of the game,  war is also a giant linear gear grind. every one races and grinding renown rank to unlock that all important next set of armour to make them a little more effective in pvp.

sure the rvr side of the game is probably the best pvp out there on the market todate, but its destroying other aspects of warhammer online which could potentially make the game a great game.  i think mythic are missing the boat here.

its ok but it could be oh so much better, they could even take more of the warhammer world and introduce it into the game and have scale and scope unrivaled by any other game.

i stopped playing because its just pvp. and pvp is only entertaining for a few weeks a month at best. take a break come back a few months later have another month of pvp get bored play something else.

if they fix that vicious little circle the game will be great.

as ice been saying since 2008!! every one will look the same. there will be specific types of armour every body will have for their class at each stage of leveling, there will be no uniqueness no individuality no noticeable customization.. we are all going to look the same. and that doesnt bode well for an MMO RPG!!!

players want to make them selves look unique to other players of their class. with this system they cannot. the only unique thing is the stats from the mod, but then that wont even be unique as soon some one will find the best combinations post a class build guide and every one will duplicate it like they do in every single other game!

EVERY ONE WILL LOOK THE SAME BE THE SAME LOL!

only a deep envolving crafting system can fix this problem with many visual options. with out it the game is just an mmofps with an rpg emphasis. its gonna be lame.

but it will look good while its being all crap.

when i think of words to describe this game and then go back over them, im heart brocken to discover that the words i chosen are all negative :( im having huge problems finding anything good about this game.

the one thing i can think of that might be of some entertainment is the radial optional replies to conversations which have an effect on game play.  i enjoyed that in the kotor games. not sure how it will pan out in an mmo though. it all sounds a little forced solo play to me.

once upon a time in eve online!! there was no super capital ships, there wasnt even capital ships and the battle ship was the nighty sword in which everyone sort!  soon every one had battle ships and eve stagnated to the point where something had to be done, then came the capital ships carriers and ddread naughts along with super haulers, again these too become common place to the point where they where no longer threatening and something else had to be done, so they brought us super caps lol hope your beginning to see the link between these chain of events.  and once again there are so many of these end game ships in the game its pointless.

eve is stagnent because of these ships. allowing one or two major alliances to band together to wipe every one else out and own the entirity of null sec is an utterly stupid idea to say the least, these two alliances will controll the very fabric of these monolithic ships meaning no one and i mean no one will be able to ever challange them. eve will be truely lost.  its already bad that if you want 0.0 space you have to have super caps to take control of some! if goons and death do this and succeed then eve wont be worth playing lol 

too many one man bands in the game to put up a reasonable resistance against such over whelming odds, generally in eve there is so much disposition among the players they are unwilling to put there petty needs and wants aside to form super corps strong enough and dedicated enough to become that which goon swarm and death have become.

why!

well death and goons are not just simple eve alliances, no no! they are world wide gaming communities thats where their numbers come from. you cannot achieve that kind of size by simple minded antics of guild leading in a game such as eve, you have to think bigger be braver be bolder and be willing to group with those you wouldnt usually group with for a much greater cause than your own reason for paying a sub.

eve is stagnant because of an ongoing selfish need from thousands of little corps all thinking they know better and wanting to play there way!!! well soon my friends you will be playing how your told to play lol well in null sec atleast.

happy space fareing. if your all smart you will stop worrying about your 20 man corp neighbours who keep camping your gate for haulers and starting thinking a little bigger and concidering a merger with a much more competetive already established alliance..

eve is past the stage of new kids on the block, not enough room for new comers sorry guys but its the truth.

Originally posted by sagil

I'm not talking about pron or anything.  I believe Age of Conan has a 18+ rating but it's not a mmorpg you can label as a good and stable (living for years) mmorpg.

I am playing WoW now and then since it's the only stable mmorpg out there. Kids and drug users are putting down people as if it was apartheid and also are unfriendly at times. They also ask for money or ninja stuff (sure, some mature people do it too, but they obviously have no life at all).

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. Because they know how to treat others, that pron and sexy girls ain't that much of a big deal to brag about or even comment on and that there are no reasons to make people small in games.

 

Thank you for reading this and I'm sorry if I offended someone, I am just trying to find a suitable game to play.

 

WOW  sux and has more nob heads than any other game out there!! FACT! 

I'm 33!!   The beauty  of being old is that we have been growing up for so long that we have actually earned the right to act like children again! 

I'M rather fond of being immature, its like re-living my childhood all over again but with muscles a big willy and a hairy face !!! let the good times roll hahaha. oh yea!!! I've even had sex too.

good article, its nice to see that people can see gamers are not just mindless monkeys, but it doesnt show we are not all illiterate.