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All Posts by Uhwop

All Posts by Uhwop

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1624 posts found

People aren't getting emails from blizzard about being hacked.  Those are phishing attempts.  Just because the link "looks legit" doesn't mean it is, there are ways around that.  This is the probably the most common way people get there account comprimised, it happened to, I'm not ashamed to admit it.  I had no idea at the time what was happening.

If you ever get an email from blizzard about your account being hacked or anything along that line, and that you need to visit blizzard to "verfiy" that it was hacked, you need to delete that email and CALL blizzard to verify that your account is ok or not.  Or in the least, open your browser, go to Bnet or WoW directly, enter your account info.  The first clue you'll get that your account is compromised, is you won't be able to log in. 

 

I do have an issue with Blizzards security though, it's the same issue I have with pretty much everyones security.  The email you get about a change of password, rarely ever requires you to actually verify that you changed the passworld.  More often then not the email is just tellin you it's been changed and to ignore it if you did change it.  They should require verification in the email if you change account info. 

 

So I follow the link like  an idiot, log into my account.  Few minutes later I get an email that my Bnet password was changed.  Odd, I didn't change it.   First and last time I ever clicked a link in a email "that blizzard sent me".

Other time I got hacked.  Again, my fault.  Used the same email and password as my WoW account on Curse. Curse got compromised, I thought nothing of it.  Unfortunately, that same password was used for my email.   Wouldn't you know it.  The same day my WoW account is a stolen, my email accounts password was also changed.

 

All the cool kids hate blizzard, why would anyone expect these people to admit that it was their fault.

DayZ isn't permadeath. 

If the guy that made the mod removed the need to have you remake the character after you died, to just having you spawn in a radom location in the world, it would be the exact same thing as you're experiencing now. 

I'm in no way making a statement about permadeath.  I'm only pointing out that there is no difference between making you recreate a character or having you respawn in a random location with the same character, because the only thing you're losing are items.

If it had some form of character development, then I would say that it's permadeath. 

Originally posted by mrw0lf

That's not a permadeath mechanic, that's just 2 servers with different death rulesets.

Imo on paper, many people who complain of permadeath haven't actually played a game with it. It's a prime example of many people not having a clue about rulesets and how mechanics actually play out in reality as opposed to what they conceive in their heads.

Look at the DayZ mod, that's a form of pdeath with ffa, fullloot, pvp and the reality of the mechanic is some of the most thrilling game play available, despite some of the most buggy assed gameing available people are still flocking to it.

 I don't think of DayZ as having permadeath, not sure why people even consider it as such.

It's full loot, with the need to remake your character.  You're just a walking inventory.

Without character development I don't see it as permadeath, the only thing lost are items.  The real test would be for them to put in some form of character development, and then see how much people enjoy it. 

But then it is also only a mod.  I don't think people are being fair with the whole, "Dayz proves that permadeath would work".  It doesn't.  It only shows that in a mod, were there is no character development, and therefore no real attachment to THAT character, people don't mind if they lose some items they may have scrounged.

FFA full loot pvp MMO's have a hard time attracting people to play them, throw in the ability to lose all character progress you've made and it would have even a harder time attracting players.

As a mod for a realatively cheap shooter simulater though, yeah it works fine.  But in no way does that translate into what people would accept in an MMO.

Did the guy in the video scare anyone else or just me?

The tech looks pretty cool.  I read an article somewhere that a kinect type system had been developed for the PC now.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by keitholi
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Right now I'm playing EQ2, this is one of the only games out there I've seen that actually lets me build a house using brick and board style.

I'm building a huge monster castle with a throne room, small hall, kitchen, dining area, crafting area, servants quarters, storage, mage tower, main bedroom, guest bedroom, treasurey room, barracks, armory, stables, tavern and a courtyard with three gardens.  Pretty darn fun actually.

I know atitd does this as well but EQ2 also has adenturing.  Istaria comes close by allowing my a couple thousand items to place but in EQ2 I get to actually design my own house, not choose between one of 700 or so styles.

 

 

When did all that go in? Last I played, you basically rented a room or house from the main cities and they were already pre-planned. You basically got to redesign the interior as well as totally customize it with all your trophy loot and such, but totally customized built-from-the-ground-up now?

I actually don't know when, but I read it on the EQ2 forums 2 months ago, so thats when I started playing again.]

There are still the houses/apartments but you can now build stuff in them.  Or you can do what I did, and bought a huge flat floating island (Tenebroush Island) and just start building.

Here are some quick screen shots.  I'm still buidling so don't be too harsh :)

I love this staircase.  Took me forever to get it the way I wanted.

 

 

 WTF!?  Is this the dungeon thing? 

Can you do this as F2P.  I would be willing to load up my old account if I can.  Already pay for 2 EVE accounts, and I'm not willing to cancel either of them.  So that answers the OP.  EVE.

Originally posted by XAPGames
Originally posted by jpnz
 

 

There is just no evidence that the demand is there.

 

I agree.  Demand has to be generated.  In most cases, products don't sell themselves.  Generate a need, generate market image and awareness, position the market image as a solution to the need.  That's how demand is created.

 

McDonald's, Coke, Pepsi, and even President Obama are clear examples of this in action.  Mass marketing creates market image and awareness.

 

When's the last time anyone saw a major advertisement campaign for a sandbox MMORPG?  I'm guessing Star Wars Galaxies.  I can't recall ever seeing anything significant from any of the Indies.  Most can barely afford programmers let alone $10 million (small on today's terms) for their advertising budget.  A few even manage to botch their own word of mouth campaigns because of poor PR and low customer satisfaction averages.

 

I'm not disagreeing that the current market is small-ish.  However, that doesn't imply on its own that the potential market isn't significant.

 The last part especially.

If it's not offered it can't be judged, and what is usually offered is pretty bad compared to what else is released.  If all it took was "being a sandbox" I would have continued to play MO instead of playing Rift alongside EVE.  And a lot can be said about offering quality product, even when it's generic quality product. 

And it's easier to emulate the standard model then it is to create something new.  

Most people playing WoW don't even know what else is out there.  When they're done with WoW, they move on from MMO's.  When was the last time you saw an article on Mo or DF in Game informer or PC gamer?  Damned if they didn't run Rift and ToR articles though. 

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Uhwop
 

 And once again.

Lineage 2 had near 12 million subscirbers, and was the only mmo that was ever able to compare to WoW in the number of subs.  And yet you keep on saying there isn't a demand for sandboxes.  Why do you keep ignoring this?

And I do support a sandbox MMO, EVE.  All the other simply suck, and not becuse they're sandboxes, but because they're crappy sandbox GAMES.

So we are counting 'accounts' made in a F2P as subs?

Cool!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_II

 To date, the game has been played by more than 14 million users, mostly based in Asia.

 

 No, that was prior to the F2P, and I even stated that they were mostly Asian.

Guess who MOSTLY plays WoW? 

The US is the SMALLEST percentage of MMO gamers.  That's a well known fact.

 

Do you not realize that you, and everyone else, are basing an assumption on the exact same fact?  There hasn't been a good sandbox MMO made, outside of one that puts you in the role of a spaceship.

Or if you like.  How many people play second life?

LoTRO, F2P

DDO, F2P

EQ, F2P

EQ2, F2P

VG, going F2P

AoC, F2P

WAR, F2P

Aion, F2P

In what world does almost every AAA themepark mmo going F2P constitute overwhelming support or an indication that people would rather play them.  Especially when no one's even attempted a AAA sandbox. 

How do you explain that?

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by XAPGames
 

One factor to this could be the lack of AAA sandboxes.  If there was a clear leader it's critical mass could increase exposure of the sub-genre.

 

UO is ancient.  SWG lost most of its sandboxiness in expansions.  What's left?  A few examples are DF, MO, Xsyon, and Wurm.  All of them together probably had less of an advertising budget than "Hello Kitty".  They simply don't have general market* penetration.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the _potential_ market for an MMO sandbox is quite large.  The current market is not.

 

* the kind of people who know MMOs exist but have no clue about the diversity since they play their own game and seldom leave it except for other big name titles.

Meh, it is just the market working as intended.

There is just no evidence that the demand is there.

 

Fun fact, I always ask these 'sandbox mmo' supporters if they play any sandbox MMOs and very rarely do they say 'yes' to it.

Which is just sad. So you 'support' it by saying you do but don't actually support one? 

Best thing these supporters can do is to actually support a sandbox game and prove that yes, there is a 1M+ sub sandbox MMO!

 And once again.

Lineage 2 had near 12 million subscirbers, and was the only mmo that was ever able to compare to WoW in the number of subs.  And yet you keep on saying there isn't a demand for sandboxes.  Why do you keep ignoring this?

And I do support a sandbox MMO, EVE.  All the other simply suck, and not becuse they're sandboxes, but because they're crappy sandbox GAMES.

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Drakxii

This is a stupid thread.  The OP's and his supporters arugement isn't vaild.  You can't say that there isn't a market for something because no has buys it, when no one is offering it.  It's like saying town X doesn't like tacos when no sells tacos in that town.  

 

That say it is true that the the market for a hardcore FFA PVP sandbox isn't that large but other then SWG there hasn't been one  non FFA PVP sandboxy game I know of.

Plenty of companies offered, I don't see 1M+ sub for any of them though.

EVE, Wurm Online, Earthrise, Tale in the desert all are sandbox MMOs.

It is funny how a 'themepark' player like myself knows sandbox titles than suppose 'sandbox MMO' supporters.

 That doesn't make them good.

Wurm?  Seriously?  Have you played wurm?  I know some people like it, but my brother also like NES emulators on his 2k dollar PC, doesn't mean I will. 

Earthrise? 

Tales of the desert?  Isn't that that one that has no combat in it at all?  That's the sandbox mmo that's all about crafting right? 

You're using one MMO (edit, mised up earth and beyond with eathrise.  this game isn't even out), and two others made by small studios and what most people wouldn't even consdier to be a good game. 

With EVE as the only exception.  The one that's sub based, and seen overall growth year in and year out, while themeparks left and right are losing subs and going F2P. 

 Bit Edit:  Earth and beyond, not earthrise.

Originally posted by jtcgs
Originally posted by Dewm

I'm just not convinced there is this giant blanket called themepark and games like WoW or RIFT actually fit under it.

 The giant blanket is created by the individual person demanding everyone use what they deem the word to mean.

The ACTUAL word, either sandbox or themepark has a far broader meaning than many are willing to admit.

As for Skyrim being sandbox or not, all you have to do is a search for "is skrim a sandbox game" and look at the dozens of links to dozens of gaming websites calling it one....or go to one of several extremely popular TES modding sites with 100,000s of TES game players members of talking about how great the games sandbox features are.

 No it doesn't.

The term sandbox was around long before any game ever allowed you to build anything, and even longer before there was ever anything called an MMO. 

It was a feature in some very old RPG's, or released as a mod to others, that allowed you to disable the objectives of the game and still play it without limitation. 

Sandbox MODE.  That's were it comes from, that's what games like UO set out to do, and what the TES series entire development philosphy is based on. 

NONobjective based gameplay.  That is all it means, that's all it ever means.  It's simply been forgotten or ignored, but it is the bases of every sandbox game ever made.

This is not what I THINK it means.  This is what it has always meant, from the very first time I ever selected the option in a single player RPG to active sandbox mode.  It is how every single sandbox game I've ever played since, has allowed me to play.  Without any developer defined objectives. 

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Uhwop
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by TheCrow2k
 

The remarkable popularity of DayZ right now shows us that there definitely are a lot of gamers interested in Sandbox games and since DayZ is at its core a fps persistant world not dissimilar to an MMO it is attracting players from the MMO community and is even covered on this site.

No one is saying 'sandbox' games are not popular as Minecraft (put in other sandbox games as you see fit) sold millions.

However, MMO Sandbox is a niche. They have smaller subs than themeparks.

To companies who are looking to invest time/$$$ into making an MMO, the 'massive' (1M+) sandbox crowd is a myth since they  see no evidence of it.

 

 CCP would like to inform you that your wrong.

CCP has as many subs as most subscription based themepark MMO's do. 

The only difference is, there's very few GOOD sandbox MMO's out there to play, and lots of themeparks. 

MMO themeparks are just as much a niche if you take WoW out of the equasion, because most MMO's don't get over 500k subs using the subscription format. 

BTW, let me say this once again.

LINEAGE 2 had near 12 million subscribers at one point.  Most all of them in Asia.  Guess were something like 75% of the WoW playerbase is?

I didn't know EVE had 1M+ subs. (fun fact, it doesn't)

Aion was pushing 2M+ before the F2P switch this year.

LoTRO/DDO had 500k+ (larger than EVE) before the F2P switch.

The total number of subs for themepark is higher than sandbox mmos. That's just fact.

Like I said before, for various companies, these 'sandbox mmo' crowd exists but are not 'massive'.

 Were did I say EVE had 1m+ subs?

Pretty sure I said that most sub based MMO's dont' have over 500k.  How many did you say LoTRO had before it went F2P?  Curious how you know that as well.

Aion?  Say it aint so, 2m subs before it went F2P?  Were did you get that number again?  And would you like to guess were all those subs come from?

Pretty sure I also said something about there being lots of themepark MMO's to play.  Also something about there being very, read VERY, few sandbox ones.

Funny.  I keep pointing this out.

LINEAGE 2 had near 12 million subs.  L2 wasn't a themepark.  It was nice that you took the time to adress everything else i wrote incorrectly, but didn't bother to address this little bit.

Guys, the US is like the SMALLEST factor in MMO subs.  That's just a fact.

PS: BTW, Aion, Lineage 2. Both of them have the same developer.  One is a traditional themepark, the other is not.  One had only a fraction of the subs the other had, and it wasn't the one that wasn't a traditional themepark. 

Hmmm.  

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Uhwop
 

 Because at no point am I required to achieve an objective laid out by the developer. 

Which is the only thing that seperates a themepark from a sandbox.  The lack of structured goals, otherwise known as an objective, that can't be ignored. 

But I can see from the tone of your post that the only reason you have this absurd idea of what a sandbox is is because you have some sort of issue with sandbox gameplay.   You're last sentence clearly shows that you would prefer to chase carots instead of growiing your own.

what? using that logic, all Themepark MMO are now Sandbox, because I can run off and do whatever I want to instead of endgame raiding 24/7....

 

HEY EVERYBODY RIFT AND GW2 ARE SANDBOX MMO!!! SPREAD THE WORD!!!!....

 

 

/end sarcasm

 

 

addressing that last part of your post.

sorry but Carrot on the Stick, is only in the head. You can have fun regardless. in Skyrim, you could say, getting stronger was your carrot on the stick. logic applies here. its alll in the head. I can play the way I want to. thats not what makes a game themepark or not.

Sandbox are known for player made content. Skyrim's only Sandbox element comes from the open PC version of the game's modding. thats it.... nothing gameplay wise about Skyrim is sandbox. its themepark.

 Therein lies your problem.  You're not actually using any logic.  You're entire arguement apparently boils down to, I don't like it therefore it is.  Which would also explain why another poster wouldn't be in the same reality as yours. 

Two of my nephews are staying the night tonight.  Instead of arguign with you, I can go argue with them.  When they stick their fingers in there ears and start with the "nyah, nyah, nyah, I can't hear you!!!!"  I can gently smack them on the back of the head and tell them to go away.

Having that same arguement with a 31 year old adult is just pointless. 

Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by TheCrow2k
 

The remarkable popularity of DayZ right now shows us that there definitely are a lot of gamers interested in Sandbox games and since DayZ is at its core a fps persistant world not dissimilar to an MMO it is attracting players from the MMO community and is even covered on this site.

No one is saying 'sandbox' games are not popular as Minecraft (put in other sandbox games as you see fit) sold millions.

However, MMO Sandbox is a niche. They have smaller subs than themeparks.

To companies who are looking to invest time/$$$ into making an MMO, the 'massive' (1M+) sandbox crowd is a myth since they  see no evidence of it.

 

 CCP would like to inform you that your wrong.

CCP has as many subs as most subscription based themepark MMO's do. 

The only difference is, there's very few GOOD sandbox MMO's out there to play, and lots of themeparks. 

MMO themeparks are just as much a niche if you take WoW out of the equasion, because most MMO's don't get over 500k subs using the subscription format. 

BTW, let me say this once again.

LINEAGE 2 had near 12 million subscribers at one point.  Most all of them in Asia.  Guess were something like 75% of the WoW playerbase is?

Originally posted by MMOExposed
 

using your logic, how is it that you can PLAY SKYRIM and not get involved in the story?

 

come on, I am waiting for a answer pal.

 Don't call me pal, buddy.

No, you're not using my logic, my logic is being completely ignored by you.

As the guy above this post I'm quoting wrote, you have to follow the storyline in the tutorial in Rift.  Or as another poster pointed out, you can't go to EI as a level 1 in Rfit, and if you want to level high enough to go to EI you have to follow the zone progression that's laid out before you in order to reach that level.

Or as I pointed out.  Your character is tied to the storyline. They tell you your story the moment you start the tutorial.  You can't avoid it. 

Objective based gameplay vs nonobjective based gameplay.  That is the only difference between what makes a sandbox and what doesn't.  Everything you do in Rift or WoW is tied directly to an objective, and the only way around the objectives in those games is to NOT PLAY.

You act like I'm making some slight towards themepark MMO's and I'm not.  I played Rift for 6 months, played WoW for the better part of 5 years, I have nothing against either game.  In fact, I think they're both good games.

But what I prefer is to play something that takes me back to when I was playing rpg's with sandbox mode turned on.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

 

Source:  http://www.giantbomb.com/sandbox/92-453/A sandbox style game is any game were you can choose to not further the main storyline at will.

 

So in Rift, since its Themepark MMO after all, I cant play the game without following main storyline?

 

yeah ok.....

(sarcasm)

 No, because you further it by the shear fact of playing.  YOUR CHARACTER is tied to the storyline, you can't get around it. 

The storyline is an objective.  By playig you are taking part in the storylie and therefore taking part in the objective.  You can't get around the structure gameplay of Rift.

Just like your sarcasm clearly shows, you know that.

If you played Skyrim, or any other TES game, you know that you are not bound to any storyline outside of "you were a prisoner, now your free, do what you want".  You should know, if you played any TES game, that you never have to adhere to any objective in the game.  You're not required, or forced to do anything.

 

PS: You may not enjoy a game that doesn't put goals in front of you, but that doesn't change the facts. 

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

 Wooo there pall,,,, YOU'RE as wrong as the guy you quoted.

You like a lot of other people around here have taken to confusing a feature that is found in both sandbox and nonsandbox games as being anything other then a FEATURE= open world.

Kind of like housing= sandbox and it has nothing to do with sandbox, it's just a FEATURE that people have come to expect in a sandbox, but one that can be found in a nonsandbox game. 

I suppose next you'll say that UO isn't a sandbox, even though it fudimentally functions the same as any TES game.

no offense taken, but please show me where I was wrong.

 My responce was pretty clear why.  Or you could read a few posts up to the other one I wrote explaining that sandbox gameplay means no objetives, and only means no objectives.  Nothing more, nothing less. 

No objectives. 

It's what it meant 20 years ago before there was ever an MMO, before garys mod, before minecraft.  It's exactly what it meant when developers included a game mode called sandbox in singleplayer RPG's that simply allowed you to play the game without any objectives. 

It is what it mean, and always has meant.  Just because some of you guys decide to spout on about how it has to have this or has to have this doesn't change what has always mean, it only means your all wrong.

PS: That's why the TES games are sandbox.  You can IGNORE THE OBJECTIVES.  It's was the design principles that Chris Weaver set out to achieve when he created Arena.  An RPG that allowed people to simply play without adhearing to the objectives available in the game. 

(corection, arena, not daggerfall.)

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by MMOExposed

Skyrim is Themepark RPG by design. So boring. Only thing interesting about Elder Scroll games on consoles has been the Open World feel to them. thats it.

the gameplay is a bore. Nothing about the gameplay is better or even close to that found in a standard themepark MMORPG.

I cannot believe you can say that in all in basically the same breath....

Skyrim is boring, but a standard themepark MMO isn't? I could argue all day about the combat alone, let alone presentation, world design, etc, etc.

Millions disagree with you.

standard Themepark MMO has WAY MORE FEATURES THAN SKYRIM ALONE!!!!

 

you seem to ignore that.... Rift has more content than Skyrim themepark RPG gameplay. The World is big only on a singleplayer console game terms. Its nothing to be excited about once you play MMORPGs....

 

and the world feels empty at that.

 

explain to me, how Skyrim is anymore exciting gameplay wise than any crapfest MMO, or even any sandbox low pop MMO like Darkfall or MO?

it isnt. the gameplay is boring. Even Demon Soul has more fun gameplay. the quest are boring, just like traditional questing in a themepark MMO. And the Dungeons are a bore fest copy paste over and over. I seen better Dungeons in a Themepark MMO. and at least they have Multiplayer to keep things dynamic and entertaining. Skyrim does not!!!!

come on,,, show me something that Skyrim does better than a Themepark MMO!!!

 Because at no point am I required to achieve an objective laid out by the developer. 

Which is the only thing that seperates a themepark from a sandbox.  The lack of structured goals, otherwise known as an objective, that can't be ignored. 

But I can see from the tone of your post that the only reason you have this absurd idea of what a sandbox is is because you have some sort of issue with sandbox gameplay.   You're last sentence clearly shows that you would prefer to chase carots instead of growiing your own.

 

PS: someone is working on a multiplayer mod for Skyrim.  Just need someone to take it a little further and host it on servers that allowed for more then 3 or 4 people.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

 


NOBODY here ever claimed there is a massive crowd for a PURE Sandbox! Nobody. I don't know whom you are talking to here.

 

What people rightfully DID claim however is, that many would enjoy sandbox ELEMENTS to enrich otherwise sterile and limited pure themeparks. And I think there would be many, who would enjoy such elements. Why people always must try to negate an argument by taking it to an extreme nobody really said is beyond me.

Wooo there pal,,,, MANY people on this forum said just that. Especially when Skyrim came out on 11/11/11. This forum was flooded with Sandbox talk in regards to the Skyrim Sells.

 

But most people on this forum fail to realize is that Skyrim/Oblivion are Open World Themepark RPG. Nothing Sandbox about them. They are themepark like Themepark MMORPG.

They just happen to be Open World RPGs unlike other console RPGs. this is something most people seem to confuse the terms. Open World != Sandbox.

 

WoW as a Open World, GW2 has a Open World, Rift has a Open World. Doesnt mean its a Sandbox....

 

GTA and TES been known to be called Sandboxes due to them being Open World. But they arent.

 Wooo there pall,,,, YOU'RE as wrong as the guy you quoted.

You like a lot of other people around here have taken to confusing a feature that is found in both sandbox and nonsandbox games as being anything other then a FEATURE= open world.

Kind of like housing= sandbox and it has nothing to do with sandbox, it's just a FEATURE that people have come to expect in a sandbox, but one that can be found in a nonsandbox game. 

I suppose next you'll say that UO isn't a sandbox, even though it fudimentally functions the same as any TES game.

Originally posted by Caldrin

I dont play games like that, infact i think the are very very bad..

they are knid of like an RTS game but without all the good bits :(

 

SO no im not playing LOL..

 This is pretty much the experience I had with it.

Felt like a feature lite RTS.  No fun at all for me.  I'd rather play minecraft, and personally I think minecraft sucks beyond belief as well.

Originally posted by Amaranthar
 

I'm just skimming through this topic at this point, but I wanted to point out something here. I don't have the inclination to read all the posts these days, since MMORPGs are pretty much dead to me.

If you took Skyrim and made it multiplayer, and IF you could scale the game for all the players, it would still PLAY LIKE a Sandbox. But if you couldn't scale the game for all the players, then it starts NOT ACTING like a Sandbox. Then you'd have to start zoning the content to character levels, and that's Themepark.

And the more numbers of players, the harder it gets to scale the content without instances, which again is not Sandbox.

That's the big issue. How to make a game with levels, or even skills, to play like the single player Skyrim, to play like a single world (per "shard"). And that's why I've always held that a good Sandbox needs to reduce the power gaps between levels to something somewhat more realistic. But you don't have to lose the excitement of advancement. You can have what many call "sideways advancement", new abilities and powers, just don;t go wild on the power boosts with them.

So Skyrim, as it is, made Massively Multiplayer, would almost certainly turn into a Themepark game and require zones, or heavy instancing.

It's all in how a game plays.

 I don't understand internet people.  Because they can type something it must be true.

EVE fucntions in exactly the way that you state would turn Skyrim into a themepark.  Zones that have mobs of set "levels".  EVE is a sandbox.  CCP, the deveopers, guys who are responcible for actually making a game, promote it as a sandbox and are dedicated to sandbox gameplay. 

One of the reason World of Darkness is taking so long, aside from not being a very large development team, is that they're literally converting the EVE system over to a vampire game.  They're dedicated to creating another sandbox, to the point that it's the primary design goal for the game.  It's even going to be a single shard game.

 

"How a game playes" is 100% a reflection of what kind of game it is.  If it's a simulation you would expect it to play like a simulation.  Gran Tourismo isn't billed as a racing simulatro, but plays like an arcade racer is it?  A themepark isn't going to play like a sandbox MMO because it's not.  Just because you have choice in WoW doesn't change what the game is.  Sure, I don't have to do quests I could just grind mobs, and poeple do do that.  I don't have to leave a zone I can just stay in one place, I can turn off XP, but none of that matters.  The game is designed around linear progression and revolving content.  You level from 1 to the cap, you move from zone to zone, you do one dungeon to get gear that allows you to do the next dungeon.  Whether or not you have to adhear to these things isn't really relevant because ignoring them inevitably means you're not playing the game.

Sim city isn't a sandbox, not even the sims is a sandbox.  You can effectively "do whatever you want" in both of those games, but the one thing you can't do that prevents them from being a sandbox is ignore the objectives. 

Gary mod is a sandbox, because it has no objective, not because you can build stuff.  Minecraft is considered a sandbox, not that I entirely agree with that, because like garys mod it has no objective in creative mode, not because you build stuff.

UO is a sandbox becuase there is no objective.  The developers didn't say, "make a character, level it, then run dungeons."  They gave players a world and said go play in it.

EVE, there is no objective in EVE, just a bunch of stuff you can choose to do. 

The ONLY player created content that a sandbox needs to be a sandbox is the ability for players to create their own objectives.  The moment a developer puts in objectives that the player has to achieve to progress the game, it stops being a sandbox.  You don't even have to train skills in EVE if you don't want to.

Building, world interaction, player created content, those are all just divergent gameplay.  Divergent gameplay is kind of the backbone of a GOOD sandbox. 

Sandbox comes from way back in the day, before even daggerfall, when single player RPG's would come with a gameplay mode called sandbox, or poeple would mod it into the game.  Sandbox mode turned off all the objectives in the game, and usually allowed you to use any item without restriction. 

It's the internet age that's destroyed the word.  You guys are trying to turn it into something it never meant.  Sandbox games existed long before any game ever allowed you to build anything, or change anything in the game world.  Now we have a generation of gamers who've never actually played an RPG that had a game mode called sandbox, and instead they're introduced through games like minecraft. 

 

Like someone else said.  It's all about the ease of development.  It's a development nightmare to create a game that puts thousands of people into the same virtual space without structure.  A themepark is a lot easier to make and balance; everything is structured by the developers and gives them more controll over the content.

 

And like I said in my earlier posts.  Everything you find in a themepark game you should find in a GOOD sandbox game.  The playerbase is as large as you're willing to make it based on the quality and setting of the game.  As long as it provides the freedom to do what I want, when I want, with no develper defined objectives, it's a sandbox. 

A good sandbox MMO has the potential to be as succesfull as any themepark mmo.  Afterall, it should be providing you the exact same content, and then some.

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