Some took issue with something another poster wrote, that I happen to think made a lot of sense. 

If the OP had been writing about a "top competitive PvP" guild that was calling it quits due to the required gear grind, I wouldn't agree with that poster. 

However, the OP was the same complaint raiders have been making since BC released.  It may be sensible to someone that likes raiding, but for those of us that it feels a little to much like playing fetch and we're the dog we may not. 

No one complains they burnt out on "comradery", it's always the gear grind.  The whole point of raiding is the gear grind though. 

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Uhwop

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

 

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

I read that a guild who raided for almost 9 years is stopping.

 There was a lot more to it then that. 

It had everything to do with repeatedly grinding gear only to obsolete the gear they already had, and indeed many of us didn't need nine years to "get it". 

Raiders have been complaining about doing what they like doing since BC released.  They want a progression and they want it to be infinite, without it obsoleting any previous progression. 

How does that not sound like a pipe dream to more people?  Why does it take some people so long to figure it out? 

The whole point of WoW is to collect gear; how much gear can you possibly put on your toon?  What else are you going to raid for in WoW?  3 months or a year to progress through the next tier doesn't really matter, as soon as people start taking old gear and discarding it for new gear, and as long as they've got some period of time between when they do this that they aren't doing it -and there's always going to be groups like the OP is talking about, that make it a point to work through the content as fast as possible because that's the point of "competitive raiding"- you're always going to have people looking for a solution to "the problem".

Many people figured out a long time ago that the only solution to this problem is to not raid.

Is the OP not "raising a problem", are they not attempting to offer up a solution to "a problem"?   I'm not sure why it would shock anyone that some people identified this problem 9 years ago.  9 years is a long time to take to figure something out. 

Originally posted by doodphace

Originally posted by Kyleran
So I came to this realization just before BC came out, which makes me look smart and these folks look like slow learners.

Hard core raiders indeed.

Let me get this straight....you assume people raid because they don't realise they are chasing a carrot,?

Can it not be because they enjoy the challenge, competitiveness, and comrodory?

 

 Didn't you read the OP, that's exactly what it is saying.

The treadmill moves to fast, slow it down.  To paraphrase. 

They want to slow down how often you get the next carrot.  It's just one idea for alleviate the chasing part of it, without removing it. 

Originally posted by Killbane
Burning crusade was definantly the golden age for wow. I started during BC and it took a lot of time and effort to earn your levels and progress. Every xpack after that just felt more and more like it was being handed to me and I wouldn't even have to do more than a quarter of the quest before I moved to the next zone. Everyone cries about a grind and if it takes a lot of work to earn something but yet since hardly any games in the US offer the grind anymore people burn through it so fast and the games are so easy that players just move on. Players need a grind whether they want to admit it or not they want to feel like there effort is accomplishing something. If it takes no effort they won't commit in the long term. The trick is to make it hard make it take a long time but be fun at the same time. That was BC for me since nothing else seems to hit the mark so I moved on.

 It's interesting. 

I remember people who started with vanilla would say the same exact thing, but starting with BC. 

It's like we're all a bunch of drug addict, we're always looking for that next hit that will give us the same feeling we got on our first.  Some of us even reaching a point that we've witched drugs altogether, and are still trying to get that same feeling back; unable to accept that it's unlikely to happen and if it does, we won't notice until a few years down the road. 

I think that's perfectly normal of us. 

Edit:  Some people become a little more bitter then others, unfortunately.

Well, and well enough aren't really the same thing. 

Sounds like EA feels it's doing well, but not well enough as they they hoped. 

Wouldn't be surprising considering how much it cost to produce.  What it cost to produce is always going to be one of the first things I would expect them to think of; even when it makes a profit that initial investment may not be "worth it". 

If I was EA, I don't think I'd write home about a game that costs hundreds of millions, and doesn't offer a WoW like return. 

Originally posted by Punk999

Thank god i have self control! I also dont blame a company about makin money on adults who cant control their spending.

Now if they make it where i cant go any further without spending money then id just quit.

 

 I have no self control, and still agree with you. 

Gamers tend to know very little about how games get published, even less about why a game gets published. 

And everyone is an expert on the internet. 

Originally posted by Squeak69

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Squeak69

wha ? is this some kinda joke at the expense of  the people who are tired of seeing the adds, cause its not really funny.

/let thread die please, dont reply

 Didn't know people were complaining about them to be honest, don't read the forums here that much anymore. 

I was just making fun of the artwork used.  It's awful, just awful. 

 

Edit:  Cringe inducing awful. 

Even if I wasn't an artist myself, I imagine it would still look as bad as it looks to me. 

ok i can accept that,

also if you think the art work is bd you should see the game play, bleh, and here i was hopeing for a good  semi mech MMO, but not not really.

 I'm not going to lie, I assumed the game would be as bad as the art.  

I assume that with every game though.  Horrible way to buy games BTW. 

Originally posted by Squeak69

wha ? is this some kinda joke at the expense of  the people who are tired of seeing the adds, cause its not really funny.

/let thread die please, dont reply

 Didn't know people were complaining about them to be honest, don't read the forums here that much anymore. 

I was just making fun of the artwork used.  It's awful, just awful. 

Edit:  Cringe inducing awful. 

Even if I wasn't an artist myself, I imagine it would still look as bad as it looks to me. 

By the horribly mediocre artwork used in the scarlet blade adverts. 

What is wrong with the blondes neck?  What's wrong with all their necks? 

And why does it look like all the adverts were drawn in a 3d modeller? 

Horrible. 

Hot chics aren't so hot when they look like they're drawn by someone with no interest in the art they're making. 

Edit:  The one with the funky demonic looking chic isn't so bad, I guess. 

Edit:  To clarify, I mean that the funky demonic chic doesn't look so bad.

It's a free to play game with a cash shop, the horror. 

Some of you really need to come down off your high horses, and stop acting like the worlds biggest nerds just because you're on the internet. 

Awful lot of forum posters on the internet could use a serious dose of dignity. 

If the players didn't want it, they wouldn't be buying them up. 

They want easy, they want quick gaming sessions, they want rewards. 

It's not that the gaming companies don't know what gamers want, they know exactly what they want, they just don't care what OTHER gamers want.  They think there's no market for challenging games that aren't WoWesque. 

You're talking about a generation of gamers that didn't grow up playing games that didn't have saves, and would make you start from the beginning if you made a mistake.  They grew up with games that mostly let you keep trying until you eventually got it. 

Gamers tend to think that other games are like them, and want the same kind of games as them, and that's not how it works.  Those of us that actually enjoy challenging games are the minority.  Most gamers do not like games that they will fail at. 

Most gamers just want to "win" the game, and that's what developers give them, because that's what is going to sell the most boxes and games are not cheap to make anymore. 

When games cost millions of dollars to make anymore, it's not suprising that they focus on the group of gamers that is going to buy the most. 

The social networking stuff is nice, but it seems like Garriott has this fantastical idea of what social networking is like. 

I would be lucky if one or two of all the people on my facebook list actually played a game I play, or one like this. 

Zynga made a lot of money because they made games my mother would play, she discovered them through social networking sites. 

As a 30+ year gamer, the constant pushing of the social networking connection doesn't actually make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, quite the opposite actually, and I do use social networking sites. 

The guy made one game 27 times. 

He doesn't have the slightest idea how to make gameS.  He knows how to make one game, 27 times. 

In basic, on punch cards. 

There's a reason why, outside of making the 27 ultimas, this guy has done nothing but talk for the last 40 years; no one uses macintosh anymore.  

I personally feel that once a game offers a live service, it's not an "offline" game. 

SimCity is a better game for the online connection, whether you're playing co-op or not. 

In my opinion, the best SimCity ever; one of the best games I've ever played,hands down. 

It's been a pain to play, but holy crap it's an awesome game. 

I can suffer through the release pains, very worth it. 

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Caldrin
I really should get into this game.. have played a few times over the years but never spent that much time playing.. time to change that i think.

If ya need help I'll be heading back to EVE in mid march ^^.

 

"In addition, convention attendees will have a chance to take part in an epic in-game event that CCP is keeping under its hat for the time being." - I think this might be linked to either Incursions, Sleepers, Jovians, maybe all 3 especially considering the existence of the SoCT cruiser/battlecruiser on the test server currently.

 I got a feeling it's going to be dust related. 

Sounds like: 

kill mobs, gain point for upgrading, spent points on skills at an NPC.  

So I: 

macro whatever will give me points, then spend them when I'm actually playing.  

People are acting like that's a big divergence from the current, buying skills when another skill reaches X level.  As long as you get something to spend for doing an activity, people will macro that activity.  They also use macros to raise attributes faster, and attributes had a significant impact on your character in the first one.  

If its harder to level skills due to this, it'll make macroing even more desirable and give marcroers an even bigger advantage.  

Itt is humanly impossible to eliminate macroing, and from my experience the harder you make it the more of an advantage the macroer tends to get.