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All Posts by Aysono

All Posts by Aysono

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164 posts found
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
  http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.     Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?
Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.  
Taking this from the wikipedia:   Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model. At the time, AOL was still charging per minute, though a change to flat fees was anticipated. The game received multiple awards, including the fantasy-role-playing game of the year for 1996. It also has had various updates throughout its life, each adding new monsters, spells, and areas. In its early years it was commonly conceived of as a graphical MUD,[2] though this term, and M59's preferred "MMPRPG", was eventually displaced by the now-ubiquitous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, a term coined by Richard Garriott of Ultima Online in 1997.[3]   ^ Meridian 59's History". In Mulligan, Jessica; Patrovsky, Bridgette. Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders. pp. 363–371. ISBN 1-59273-000-0.   I didn't read the publication but if it was true "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game" wasn't coined by Garriott, only that 3DO called it MMPRGP instead of MMORPG. Also please note that MUDs were also categorized as MMORPGs too and there were a lot of MUDs before M59.
Now that's interesting. I'm not that familiar with Meridian 59 at all, other than it existed, it had ugly skeletons and it's considered an MMORPG. Keep in mind that we're talking about specific terms here. Richard Garriott did coin the term, "MMORPG" and the first game it was applied to was Ultima Online. MMRPG is a different term, doesn't look like it was used publicly, and nobody outside of 3DO used it. That does not mean Richard Garriott created the genre. He just coined the term, and was successful enough with UO to get the genre on the map. Any use of the term to refer to MUDs or anything else happened after Richard Garriott coined the term. I only brought this up because people were arguing about what the term means, and what it meant. We know what it meant. It meant Ultima Online.  
The focal point is not MMORPG or MPPRPG. It is "massively". Isn't "massive" the key point of discussion here? Can't you see 3DO was the first to describe on online game with "massively"?


Perhaps, but it doesn't really matter, since their definition never made it beyond their boardroom. It was never used to describe the genre, only that one game, and only privately. "MMORPG" not only got past Origin's boardroom, it is used publicly to describe an entire genre and it started with something that we can describe in a fair amount of detail.

"Massively", as part of "MMORPG" was used to describe Ultima Online, which allowed "thousands" of players into the same persistent world at the same time. There may be some quibbling over what "thousands" means, but it sets a fairly definite idea and lower bound on what "massively" means in relation to MMORPGs.

**

My stance on 3DO and "massively" could probably be explained better. It would be more likely to find the meaning in the term he coined and used to describe Ultima Online, not the term 3DO used, since the term Richard Garriott used is the one used to describe the genre.

 

The usage of "Massively Multiplayer Online" is similar to "Truly Free(TM)", "Made From The Best Stuff On Earth" or "Double A (beep beep) MCO".

Aion is not absolutely, totally or completely "free". Snapple is made from mostly the same "Best Stuff On Earth" every other similar beverage is made from. AAMCO is not Double-A-BEEP-BEEP-M-C-O.

I don't think anybody can argue "Truly", "Best" and "Beep Beep" are not used in their normal ways in these examples but good slogans are always palatable to consumers. They serve their products very well.

If 3DO trademarked "Massively Multiplayer" it would be a very good slogan or catch phrase for its product or array of products but for the whole online game genre to attempt to stereotype such an ambiguous phrase is not a good idea. You want to catch the attention of the audience, not to confuse them.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

 

Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

 

Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

 Whether it made enough money to get off the commercial ground is irrelevant.  Whether the game was a success is irrelvant.

What matters is, was it (or possible if it never made it off the ground would it) have been able to host more than a traditional multiplayer.

If the traditional multiplayer at the time was 50, and m59 could host 100, or later 250-500 concurrent users  well that is more than 50, which was ore than the traditional mutliplayer, therefore it was massively multiplayer. 

You are going back to the same question asked by many posters on this thread that have yet to be answered. What is the "traditional multiplayer" now? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1 million?

To answer the question on topic. what exactly is the meaning of "massive" is the key point and even if you avoid using M59's definition of "large-n multiplayer rpg" you still have to explain where you pulled your definition of "massiveness" in term of "traditional multiplayer" from.

 Unfortunatley thats all your going to get.  Massive or massively is not a specific number, it is a term that is relative to something else.  In this case that other part is multiplayer, so massively mutliplayer has to have more than traditional multiplayer.  Thats it, thats all.

How many does multiplayer traditionally have?  No idea anymore.  It may not even mean anything really becaues multiplayer games have also become very big. 

In my opinion if any game is capable of hosting hundreds to thousands on a single server, it's an MMO.  

If tradtional muliplayer was 50, anything more is massive.  Last I heard (a number of years ago now) it was around 250, so anything more than that is massive.  Now games like Lol and defiance have blurred the lines, and can hold thousands - making them MMO's.  So one of the terms either mutliplayer or Massively Multiplayer became absorbed.

That means you are trying to make a weight measurement without a scale. You can use your guesstimation or eyeball tests but nothing is verifiable, let alone precise and  fair judgement.

Since different people make different guesses and eyeball tests they will never arrive at  the same conclusion. In the absence of anything that can precisely tell the "massiveness" of an MMORPG there is no way to disprove whether a game is an MMORPG or not, hence there should not be any arguments for anybody whatsoever if they think MMORPGs don't have to be massive.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
  http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.     Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?
Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.  
Taking this from the wikipedia:

 

Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model. At the time, AOL was still charging per minute, though a change to flat fees was anticipated. The game received multiple awards, including the fantasy-role-playing game of the year for 1996. It also has had various updates throughout its life, each adding new monsters, spells, and areas. In its early years it was commonly conceived of as a graphical MUD,[2] though this term, and M59's preferred "MMPRPG", was eventually displaced by the now-ubiquitous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, a term coined by Richard Garriott of Ultima Online in 1997.[3]

 

^ Meridian 59's History". In Mulligan, Jessica; Patrovsky, Bridgette. Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders. pp. 363–371. ISBN 1-59273-000-0.

 

I didn't read the publication but if it was true "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game" wasn't coined by Garriott, only that 3DO called it MMPRGP instead of MMORPG. Also please note that MUDs were also categorized as MMORPGs too and there were a lot of MUDs before M59.




Now that's interesting. I'm not that familiar with Meridian 59 at all, other than it existed, it had ugly skeletons and it's considered an MMORPG.

Keep in mind that we're talking about specific terms here. Richard Garriott did coin the term, "MMORPG" and the first game it was applied to was Ultima Online. MMRPG is a different term, doesn't look like it was used publicly, and nobody outside of 3DO used it.

That does not mean Richard Garriott created the genre. He just coined the term, and was successful enough with UO to get the genre on the map. Any use of the term to refer to MUDs or anything else happened after Richard Garriott coined the term.

I only brought this up because people were arguing about what the term means, and what it meant. We know what it meant. It meant Ultima Online.

 

The focal point is not MMORPG or MPPRPG. It is "massively". Isn't "massive" the key point of discussion here? Can't you see 3DO was the first to describe on online game with "massively"?

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

 

Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

 

Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

 Whether it made enough money to get off the commercial ground is irrelevant.  Whether the game was a success is irrelvant.

What matters is, was it (or possible if it never made it off the ground would it) have been able to host more than a traditional multiplayer.

If the traditional multiplayer at the time was 50, and m59 could host 100, or later 250-500 concurrent users  well that is more than 50, which was ore than the traditional mutliplayer, therefore it was massively multiplayer. 

You are going back to the same question asked by many posters on this thread that have yet to be answered. What is the "traditional multiplayer" now? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 1 million?

To answer the question on topic. what exactly is the meaning of "massive" is the key point and even if you avoid using M59's definition of "large-n multiplayer rpg" you still have to explain where you pulled your definition of "massiveness" in term of "traditional multiplayer" from.

Q: Why did MMOs become about the money and numbers?

A: Because virtual worlds are capitalist worlds and Money Makes the Virtual World Go Around.

 

 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
IF M59 could handle more than what a traditional multiplayer could at that particular time than the title would fit.

The history of M59 provided by its project lead told a detail story about the "massiveness" of the game:

http://www.meridian59.com/about-early-history.php

 

Clearly, the game was a financial disaster and never was "massively" (or massive if you insist that's the right grammar) from the beginning. There were only 5 servers at the time of launch. If my memory serves typical  AOL server capacity for games in the 1990s was 50. It gradually raised to 100 at the end of the millennium when Anarchy and RuneScape and a small handful of MMORPGs started to turn the world alive.So here you go, M59 supported 250 or 500 concurrent users top. Your first ever "Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" or 3DO's "Large-N-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game" never got off the commercial ground. It didn't even make enough to cover a tiny server cost.

 

Massively or Massive? It doesn't matter to me as I am not a grammar police. I will gladly take QQ Moar, TL;DR and XOXOXO as modern Cyber-English any day as long as the crowd are happy with their usages, spelling and meanings. Qualifier or Quantifier? it may be a moot point to many, but to me it is just a Beautifier.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono

 

Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

 

I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

Once again no.  It shows you fundamentally don't understand what an adverb is.  It clarifies, modifies or qualifies another phrase, verb, word, adjective

The word it is clarifying is multiplayer. Mulitplayer does not refer to quality, it is quantity.  This is not opinion, mulitplayer means more than one player.  Massively multiplayer is clarifing the word multiplayer, because mulitplayer means more than one, massively multiplayer must mean significanly mean than on one. 

This is not opinion, that is what multiplayer means, massive means big, grand, large, lots.  The two together with massively as the adverb is accentuating the term multiplayer.  That is not opinion.

Massive game - could mean a big game, a really great game a grand game.

Massively multiplayer - qualifes multiplayer, meaning a lot of people.

If it was a massive mulitplayer gamer - here massive is not an adverb, here it is an adjective relating to the noun (in this use) game.  Meaning it could be all the same things as massive game.

Massivly multiplayer is only referrring to the multiplayer which means more than one person, so once again massively multiplayer must be significantly more than one person.

Please check this out from Meridian 59's Wikipedia:

Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model.

Assuming it is true then the originator of  "massively multi-player role-playing game", 3DO, apparently referred M59 to some sort of "large-n multi-player online game". You may argue if it was the case they should have dubbed it "massive multi-player role-playing game" instead of "massively multi-player role-playing game".

Allow me to point out that M59 never was a game with "massive" fanbase. A population of a tiny 25k was specified on the wikipedia page, not merely a portion of the numbers registered for many MUDs at that time. If 25k registered players are what it takes to be considered "massvely" then almost every online game under the sun is a "massively online game".

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aysono

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Aysono I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".   As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.   The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott. Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4. He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well. ** The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.   Are you with us?   Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure. Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously. Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics. Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle. Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology. Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.
  http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so. http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/
Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.

 

 

Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?




Richard Garriott coined the term, but he didn't create the first game it could be applied to. Kind of like EQ and then later WoW, he saw features that could be implemented in a different way and work better.

 

Taking this from the wikipedia:

Prior to its release, the term "massively multiplayer" and the acronym "MMPRPG",[1] "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game", emerged in meetings within 3DO (beating out other monikers such as "large-n game"), as did the now-ubiquitous monthly subscription model. At the time, AOL was still charging per minute, though a change to flat fees was anticipated. The game received multiple awards, including the fantasy-role-playing game of the year for 1996. It also has had various updates throughout its life, each adding new monsters, spells, and areas. In its early years it was commonly conceived of as a graphical MUD,[2] though this term, and M59's preferred "MMPRPG", was eventually displaced by the now-ubiquitous Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, a term coined by Richard Garriott of Ultima Online in 1997.[3]

 

^ Meridian 59's History". In Mulligan, Jessica; Patrovsky, Bridgette. Developing Online Games: An Insider's Guide. New Riders. pp. 363–371. ISBN 1-59273-000-0.

 

I didn't read the publication but if it was true "Massively Multi-Player Role-Playing Game" wasn't coined by Garriott, only that 3DO called it MMPRGP instead of MMORPG. Also please note that MUDs were also categorized as MMORPGs too and there were a lot of MUDs before M59.

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Aysono
I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

 

As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.


 

The term "MMORPG" was coined by Richard Garriott.

Safko, Ron; Brake, David (2009). The Social Media Bible: Tactics, Tools, and Strategies for Business Success. Wiley. ISBN 0-470-41155-4.

He used the term to describe Ultima Online. So, whatever Ultima Online was when it launched is what the term meant. Since he followed UO with Tabula Rasa, and used the term there too, we can assume that it would include whatever was included with Tabula Rasa as well.

**

The original press release for UO does mention "thousands" of people playing simultaneously.

 



Are you with us?

 

Experience real-time social interaction with thousands of people in the same exciting game world. meet new friends and foes, engage in group combat, venture off to uncharted lands, or visit a tavern and chat with players from around the world. It's an ongoing, ever-changing world of adventure.

Mass player engine allows thousands of real people to play simultaneously.
Day and night effects, 3-D terrain and 16-bit color SVGA graphics.
Customize your onscreen characters, including gender, skin tone, clothing and hairstyle.
Detailed character-defining systems and fully simulated virtual ecology.
Real-time combat, adventuring and social interaction.


 



http://www.uoguide.com/Ultima_Online

Holy cats the world has progressed since 1997. Here's a copy of the UO website circa 1997 or so.

http://web.archive.org/web/19971018082601/http://www.owo.com/

Really? I didn't read his book so no argument on if he actually used the word MMORPG for UO.

 

Assuming Lord British was the originator of MMORPG and starting using it on UO then logically UO should be officially called the first ever MMORPG. How come everybody said Meridian 59 was the first MMORPG?

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
 

Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

 

 

No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

It is a qualifier of the word "Multiplayer", not game.  Multiplayer refers to numbers of people, as in more than one.  Therefore since massively is a qualifiier for numbers of people, it must be referrring to grand, large, great big numbers of people. 

If it was referring to game, you may have an argument, but it is referring to multiplayer, therefore it is not quality, it is quantity.

 

I really hate to say that word again, but "AGAIN", it is your opinion and interpretation. I don't mean your opinion is 100% right or wrong. Unless we can identify the origin of MMORPG, there is no official definition of that word, let alone whether "Massively" is used to describe the "Multiplayer Online Game" or just the "Multiplayer" aspect of the "Online Game".

As long as it remains a Probatio Diabolica, neither arguments can be proven incorrect or correct.

It makes me laugh when people say bots don't pay. In fact, I believe the FF realm might not have reborn without the funding of the bots.
Originally posted by Kuinn
Originally posted by Aysono

LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

 

Actually the reality is that including popular games into your news feed you get a lot more page views which translates directly into your site income. Just because a small simple lobby game like LoL has a huge player base does not make it an MMO. Who the hell even had the absurd idea that the first letter of MMO can be pulled from outside the actual game, such as community or playerbase which has nothing to do with the size of the game it self.

 

Oh damn I've been waiting for Mass Effect MMORPG, that would be so sweet! But wait a minute, by playing Mass Effect 3 multiplayer I already have Mass Effect-MMORPG because it has massive following? Oh wait, it only WAS massive multiplayer at launch, but now that the active players have shrunk it's not MMORPG anymore? The game has not changed AT ALL but the definition should change?

 

I guess these games should have warning messages for bro dude players: "Warning, the player base has grown so big that the game is now all of a sudden MMO, I know crazy right, but if you dont want to be labeled as MMO-nerd quit playing the game immediately!" >_>

I think you get a little bit carried away. MOBAs and social games don't call themselves MMOs. The MMO websites put them in their content since there are less and less things to write on traditional MMOs.

 

To my knowledge LoL, Farmville and such never wanted to be called MMOs. In fact, in most Asian countries they don't even use the term MMOs. WoW, LoL, CoD, Farmville are all simply called Online Games.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
 

Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

 

 

No.  Massively is an Adverb of the Adjective Multiplayer, it is a qualifier for multiplayer. 

Yes, Adverb was what I tried to say. Thanks for the correction and yes again, it is a "qualifier" ,not a "quantifier". It tells the qualify (how great, marvallous) the games are, not how many players play the games. If you have to go for the quantifier definition, then in no way are games with 30 million players less "massive" than the MMOs with only a few hundreds.

Look at what games are selling big now? The MOBAs, the mobiles, CoD, Skylanders and such. So obviously, gameplay is what players are going for first. Social games are still up there, yes, but they also need to have distinctive gameplay to pull them ahead of the other competitors in the same genre.
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Realistically, MMOs were not really that "massive" to begin with. I think It was just a term coined strictly for marketing purpose.

Even back in their glorious days, there weren't too many MMOs with 30-50k concurrent players online.

You can easily find 40-50k people in a regular baseball/football game in the US or a soccer game in Europe. You can also find tens of thousands of people in a concert. Even thousands of people attend some churches too. Can somebody tell me why nobody ever said they have attended Massive Baseball games, Massive Soccer Games, Massive Concerts or Massive Church Services? Amen!

 

Because there are only 22 players limited chase after the ball while 50k watch them play , they not join in.

Then again , if 50k+22 players chase after the ball in same time then what we should we call it ?

also

Massive + multiplayer online + RPG are difference than massive + soccer games.

You don't get the point that spectator sports are also sports. Sports are entertainment. Games are entertainment. E-sports are also entertainment. You don't have to be the players on the field in a ball game or the musicians in a concert or the pastor in an evangelical service to participate in these events. Participation is one of, if not, the most important things in an entertainment. Without user participation no entertainment will survive.

The reality is although virtual reality is still years ahead of our time, virtual shopping malls, concerts, etc are already made available by advanced technologies. It won't take long before participants find themselves playing stickball or shooting hoops online with their buddies in their neighborhoods while having their girlfriends cheerleading the virtual events.

Role playing is also going to be replaced by virtual participation. Participants  will also find themselves immersed in realistic stories rather than just killing mobs, getting loots, rinse and repeat... Don't you also find the RPG category in Golden Joystick this year replaced by "Story Telling"?

God ,

what kind of game without players , you can't call peoples who only watch the game and wasn't play it players

You get entertainment when you watch something then you are watcher.

Those who play game called player and those who watch are watcher ,

idk why i even have to explain this

And i don't see the virtual reality part have any do in topic about MMORPGs and Massive

It is your perception and definition against others. A lot of people have expressed their opinions E-Sports are not sports but Obama and governments of other countries apparently have different views. Whose opinions count? We all know. Guild Wars used to be called a Co-Op online game but mysteriously it has been dubbed an MMORPG now. LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

 

The virtual reality part is an illustration on what is "massive" and what are not. Reality is the only Truly Massive thing, Truly Massive as in 7 Billion+ followers strong and growing. Reality hurts sometimes but if people don't accept it they can only be escapists who try to seek refuge in "massive worlds" they may call "Alone in the Desert" or "THE ONE of the truly massive MMORPG".

 

Massiveness exists only in one's thoughts. There is no absolute rights or wrongs in one's thoughts. Your thoughts just may not represent the "massive" opinions of the real world. And I can tell you that you are absolutely wrong if you think only players are the one who can enjoy a game. Spectators, fans,  investors, owners and even the general public can all have interests in games just like they can have interests in other entertainment such as movies, sports etc.

I have nothing to say anymore

So as long as those game make it list on MMORPG.com then they automatic become MMORPG ,  even Farmville can turn into MMO+RPG if it list in MMORPG.com


And what we talking about in the first place?

You said about why a football game with 40-50k viewer can't called massive football game , am i right ?

And i said because it limit for only 22 players (who chase the ball on field)

Then you keep said about entertainment things for viewer ,

but it don't change face that in a football game , we only have 22 players limit

Then tell me , why a football game where we have 22 player limit can be called massive multiplayers game.

With 22 player limit for a game , it only multiplayers game.

 

In first post i quote , you said that "MMOs wasn't massive to begin with"

The massive part of MMO are go with the word multiplayer , not the game

it not talk about the mass of the game , but the mass of number of players.

And all very first MMOGames , there are no limit number of players can join the the game ,

That's why it called Massive , the number can join are big and not limit , it go from 1 to infinitive. That's why it called massive

 

Remember one thing , the "game" word mean start and end

As for MOBA , each battle (game) start and end as 10 (or less) that's why it can't be called massive player , because you know the number of player who join that game (battle)

But in MMOGame there are no limit number player from start , and it don't have "end" , the game server don't automatic close when last boss (main goal) get killed , that's why you can't tell the number of player who join in

Because you can't tell how many players you can have in a MMOGame , it called Massive Multiplayers.

 

Anyway , i don't think i will go deeper than this , i ready post what i mean so i will call it end of my discussion here . Sorry

 

Again, let me say this again, that's your definition, which is "massively" is used to describe the "number of players online" but can't "massively" be also used as an adjective to describe the quality of the game? or how the participants feel about the games?

From your point of view, WoW may be a "massively multiplayer" role playing game because it has a "massively" 7 million+ (multi)players. But please bear in mind your viewpoint doesn't stop other people from using the word "massively" in lieu of "great", "grand" or "marvallous".

 

 

Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Realistically, MMOs were not really that "massive" to begin with. I think It was just a term coined strictly for marketing purpose.

Even back in their glorious days, there weren't too many MMOs with 30-50k concurrent players online.

You can easily find 40-50k people in a regular baseball/football game in the US or a soccer game in Europe. You can also find tens of thousands of people in a concert. Even thousands of people attend some churches too. Can somebody tell me why nobody ever said they have attended Massive Baseball games, Massive Soccer Games, Massive Concerts or Massive Church Services? Amen!

 

Because there are only 22 players limited chase after the ball while 50k watch them play , they not join in.

Then again , if 50k+22 players chase after the ball in same time then what we should we call it ?

also

Massive + multiplayer online + RPG are difference than massive + soccer games.

You don't get the point that spectator sports are also sports. Sports are entertainment. Games are entertainment. E-sports are also entertainment. You don't have to be the players on the field in a ball game or the musicians in a concert or the pastor in an evangelical service to participate in these events. Participation is one of, if not, the most important things in an entertainment. Without user participation no entertainment will survive.

The reality is although virtual reality is still years ahead of our time, virtual shopping malls, concerts, etc are already made available by advanced technologies. It won't take long before participants find themselves playing stickball or shooting hoops online with their buddies in their neighborhoods while having their girlfriends cheerleading the virtual events.

Role playing is also going to be replaced by virtual participation. Participants  will also find themselves immersed in realistic stories rather than just killing mobs, getting loots, rinse and repeat... Don't you also find the RPG category in Golden Joystick this year replaced by "Story Telling"?

God ,

what kind of game without players , you can't call peoples who only watch the game and wasn't play it players

You get entertainment when you watch something then you are watcher.

Those who play game called player and those who watch are watcher ,

idk why i even have to explain this

And i don't see the virtual reality part have any do in topic about MMORPGs and Massive

It is your perception and definition against others. A lot of people have expressed their opinions E-Sports are not sports but Obama and governments of other countries apparently have different views. Whose opinions count? We all know. Guild Wars used to be called a Co-Op online game but mysteriously it has been dubbed an MMORPG now. LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

 

The virtual reality part is an illustration on what is "massive" and what are not. Reality is the only Truly Massive thing, Truly Massive as in 7 Billion+ followers strong and growing. Reality hurts sometimes but if people don't accept it they can only be escapists who try to seek refuge in "massive worlds" they may call "Alone in the Desert" or "THE ONE of the truly massive MMORPG".

 

Massiveness exists only in one's thoughts. There is no absolute rights or wrongs in one's thoughts. Your thoughts just may not represent the "massive" opinions of the real world. And I can tell you that you are absolutely wrong if you think only players are the one who can enjoy a game. Spectators, fans,  investors, owners and even the general public can all have interests in games just like they can have interests in other entertainment such as movies, sports etc.

Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Realistically, MMOs were not really that "massive" to begin with. I think It was just a term coined strictly for marketing purpose.

Even back in their glorious days, there weren't too many MMOs with 30-50k concurrent players online.

You can easily find 40-50k people in a regular baseball/football game in the US or a soccer game in Europe. You can also find tens of thousands of people in a concert. Even thousands of people attend some churches too. Can somebody tell me why nobody ever said they have attended Massive Baseball games, Massive Soccer Games, Massive Concerts or Massive Church Services? Amen!

 

Because there are only 22 players limited chase after the ball while 50k watch them play , they not join in.

Then again , if 50k+22 players chase after the ball in same time then what we should we call it ?

also

Massive + multiplayer online + RPG are difference than massive + soccer games.

You don't get the point that spectator sports are also sports. Sports are entertainment. Games are entertainment. E-sports are also entertainment. You don't have to be the players on the field in a ball game or the musicians in a concert or the pastor in an evangelical service to participate in these events. Participation is one of, if not, the most important things in an entertainment. Without user participation no entertainment will survive.

The reality is although virtual reality is still years ahead of our time, virtual shopping malls, concerts, etc are already made available by advanced technologies. It won't take long before participants find themselves playing stickball or shooting hoops online with their buddies in their neighborhoods while having their girlfriends cheerleading the virtual events.

Role playing is also going to be replaced by virtual participation. Participants  will also find themselves immersed in realistic stories rather than just killing mobs, getting loots, rinse and repeat... Don't you also find the RPG category in Golden Joystick this year replaced by "Story Telling"?

God ,

what kind of game without players , you can't call peoples who only watch the game and wasn't play it players

You get entertainment when you watch something then you are watcher.

Those who play game called player and those who watch are watcher ,

idk why i even have to explain this

And i don't see the virtual reality part have any do in topic about MMORPGs and Massive

It is your perception and definition against others. A lot of people have expressed their opinions E-Sports are not sports but Obama and governments of other countries apparently have different views. Whose opinions count? We all know. Guild Wars used to be called a Co-Op online game but mysteriously it has been dubbed an MMORPG now. LoL and other MOBAs have also called MMORPGs. So have Farmville, Marvel: Avenger Alliance and many other social media games been featured in hundreds of MMORPG sites. It is just reality.

 

The virtual reality part is an illustration on what is "massive" and what are not. Reality is the only Truly Massive thing, Truly Massive as in 7 Billion+ followers strong and growing. Reality hurts sometimes but if people don't accept it they can only be escapists who try to seek refuge in "massive worlds" they may call "Alone in the Desert" or "THE ONE of the truly massive MMORPG".

 

Massiveness exists only in one's thoughts. There is no absolute rights or wrongs in one's thoughts. Your thoughts just may not represent the "massive" opinions of the real world. And I can tell you that you are absolutely wrong if you think only players are the one who can enjoy a game. Spectators, fans,  investors, owners and even the general public can all have interests in games just like they can have interests in other entertainment such as movies, sports etc.

Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Aysono
Realistically, MMOs were not really that "massive" to begin with. I think It was just a term coined strictly for marketing purpose.

Even back in their glorious days, there weren't too many MMOs with 30-50k concurrent players online.

You can easily find 40-50k people in a regular baseball/football game in the US or a soccer game in Europe. You can also find tens of thousands of people in a concert. Even thousands of people attend some churches too. Can somebody tell me why nobody ever said they have attended Massive Baseball games, Massive Soccer Games, Massive Concerts or Massive Church Services? Amen!

 

Because there are only 22 players limited chase after the ball while 50k watch them play , they not join in.

Then again , if 50k+22 players chase after the ball in same time then what we should we call it ?

also

Massive + multiplayer online + RPG are difference than massive + soccer games.

You don't get the point that spectator sports are also sports. Sports are entertainment. Games are entertainment. E-sports are also entertainment. You don't have to be the players on the field in a ball game or the musicians in a concert or the pastor in an evangelical service to participate in these events. Participation is one of, if not, the most important things in an entertainment. Without user participation no entertainment will survive.

The reality is although virtual reality is still years ahead of our time, virtual shopping malls, concerts, etc are already made available by advanced technologies. It won't take long before participants find themselves playing stickball or shooting hoops online with their buddies in their neighborhoods while having their girlfriends cheerleading the virtual events.

Role playing is also going to be replaced by virtual participation. Participants  will also find themselves immersed in realistic stories rather than just killing mobs, getting loots, rinse and repeat... Don't you also find the RPG category in Golden Joystick this year replaced by "Story Telling"?

Realistically, MMOs were not really that "massive" to begin with. I think It was just a term coined strictly for marketing purpose.

Even back in their glorious days, there weren't too many MMOs with 30-50k concurrent players online.

You can easily find 40-50k people in a regular baseball/football game in the US or a soccer game in Europe. You can also find tens of thousands of people in a concert. Even thousands of people attend some churches too. Can somebody tell me why nobody ever said they have attended Massive Baseball games, Massive Soccer Games, Massive Concerts or Massive Church Services? Amen!

With the diminishing number of players in the MMO industry, a lot of online games formerly not categorized as MMOs have found themselves significantly outgrown the traditional MMOs. As a result, MMO people are now blending Guild Wars, LoL and even Farmville and such into the MMO family. The reason is simple, When champanzees are surronded by pygmy monkeys they called themselves "massive" apes but when they are in the land of 800 pound gorillas they just call every one in the room their "fellow monkeys".

Well, not only some websites are making the word "massively" ambigious. Even this year Golden Joystick has abandoned the MMO category it has been endorsing many years. Some day in the future, the word "massively" in MMO will become obsolete.
Originally posted by marz.at.play
Didn't he leave because RIFT was going F2P and he said he'd never be a part of it...or was that someone else at Trion? Memory is shady.

He said something like "it would be a big negative for RIFT to go free-to-play" then came the news shortly he was no longer with Trion.

 

But in an interview with Forbes earlier this year he changed his tone and said: "free-to-play models has really opened up the door for a new audience"

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2013/03/05/scott-hartsman-talks-the-future-of-mmorpgs/

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