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All Posts by echolynfan

All Posts by echolynfan

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Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan

I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.

And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.

Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.

Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?

 

You need to add that sub to whatever game(s) a player is already paying for.  It's not a single 15 bucks is 15x the number of sub games one owns.  Not to mention a family that plays mmo's together (my wife and two sons both play).  That's $15x4.  It adds up.


And how much would it cost you to take your family out for one meal and a movie? One night of entertainment would cost you more than a months worth of an MMO. It's much cheaper for your family to all play MMO's than it is to take them out.

You seriously think that I would sacrifice going to movies and eating out with my family to play a second MMO? LAWL The reason I had the time to find a wife and procreate children is because I never sacrificed my ability to show up in public and socialize.


Perhaps, but it'll still cost you more than you pay for an MMO for a month :)

We already pay for one mmo. I just refuse to pay for a second one at the same time.  GW2 can't come out fast enough ;P


All I can say is at least the games that charge a sub fee keep out the freebie people

Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan

I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.

And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.

Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.

Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?

 

You need to add that sub to whatever game(s) a player is already paying for.  It's not a single 15 bucks is 15x the number of sub games one owns.  Not to mention a family that plays mmo's together (my wife and two sons both play).  That's $15x4.  It adds up.


And how much would it cost you to take your family out for one meal and a movie? One night of entertainment would cost you more than a months worth of an MMO. It's much cheaper for your family to all play MMO's than it is to take them out.

You seriously think that I would sacrifice going to movies and eating out with my family to play a second MMO? LAWL The reason I had the time to find a wife and procreate children is because I never sacrificed my ability to show up in public and socialize.


Perhaps, but it'll still cost you more than you pay for an MMO for a month :)

Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by echolynfan


And how much would it cost you to take your family out for one meal and a movie? One night of entertainment would cost you more than a months worth of an MMO. It's much cheaper for your family to all play MMO's than it is to take them out.

... and it would be a lot cheaper for your family to sit around and play card games and board games together, then read a book and have a family discussion about things.

Maybe watch the news, and discuss important changes in the world.

... all of which are not only more entertaining and more social with your family, but cheaper!

So I think the lesson we've all learned from this is that MMOs are inferior to libraries, and them charging 15 dollars a month is a travesty compared to the unlimited entertainment you can get for free (sans the occasional library fee).

You know - you're right! In fact - today I'm moving into my new home:

I mean - why the hell should I pay rent or a mortgage when I can have my housing for free. And forget ever paying for food - I'm heading down to the free kitchen!

People that charge rent for places are con artists man! My box is my palace and I don't pay nuthin!

 

Originally posted by MMOtoGO
Originally posted by echolynfan

I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.

And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.

Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.

Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?

 

You need to add that sub to whatever game(s) a player is already paying for.  It's not a single 15 bucks is 15x the number of sub games one owns.  Not to mention a family that plays mmo's together (my wife and two sons both play).  That's $15x4.  It adds up.


And how much would it cost you to take your family out for one meal and a movie? One night of entertainment would cost you more than a months worth of an MMO. It's much cheaper for your family to all play MMO's than it is to take them out.

Originally posted by nolic1

To me the whole you must sub to this game you bought is bull to me why the hell did I just spend $50 or even $60 on a game to be charged to play what I payed for hello McFly. Hell even my friends and family all play mmo's and not one of us has paid to play sense games like Shaiya and others have been around. Most of us dont use the CS for much of anything well minus my time in Runes of Magic which became more of a time sink then a money sink but still why should I spend that much. 

Now as to the F2P B2P and P2P which is better well why does it matter if a game goes F2P after being P2P you get the freeloaders crap in the fourms if a game is F2P and not P2P you get this game sucks cause it has a CS well guess wht who the hell cares what I spend my hard earned money on you shouldn't hell if I spent half the time I did playing Free games on a paid game which I never did even WoW had me only playing about 10 to 15 hrs a week but some F2P games have me playing 30+ hrs a week so I must be having fun in it. 

As for a games going f2p cause they couldn't cut it as p2p guess what most of these games went f2p because it brings in more players to try there game at no cost and they can play it as much as they like for free if they want more they ethier sub or by it peice meal ala Lotro style or DDO and I did it in both and I dont have to pay sub for nothing just new content even in DCUO and Champions I do the same cause I will not waste $15 a month on a game that once I play through the new content I quite till the next new content comes out to do that content as well when I can by it and play it the same as before woo hoo and you just spent $180 a year for what to rent the game that I bought and refuse to sub to anymore cause its the same as the game I am playing for free.

Yweah this topic makes me mad as hell but you people that say a sub s needed are full of it I mean come on I pay for my stuff in all games same as you yet we all ethier pay a sub or dont play the game I say screw these big companys that charge a sub and let us buy the game and play it or dont put it out at all hell thats better then SW:TOR its a crap game to me and is just that I beta tested it for 4 months and kept telling them to change things or they will have tons of its WoW in space with a story and thats all it is in my eyes after playing oh every game on the market to date thats an mmo even the asian ones and still feel there all the same after a while. But maybe if companys would release a game thats not the standered load of I did this a million times or play this already under a different skin maybe they could bring a sub in but a themepark ridde the rails our way or nothing no thatnk oyu I will spend my money on what I want not the same old crap.

F2P games are usually not up to the quality of P2P games with exceptions of course. My post was meant to help me understand why so many players think that they should be able to play games for free and why they think $15 per month is SO expensive.

Once companies started offering F2P games (which are far from free) this attitiude about the sub fees began. I understand now: the anger comes from WANTING to play sub games but since other games are F2P you think because a company wants to charge a sub fee they're "ripping people off"

No one is forcing you to pay a sub fee. I haven't found one F2P game that comes close to the quality and performance of a P2P game - Runes Of Magic is not bad but just because it's F2P doesn't mean that's going to make me want to play it. I play what I want to and what I like. regardless of the financial model.

 

 

Originally posted by bezado

 


Originally posted by echolynfan
I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.
And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.
Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.
Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?
 


 

The problem is that it doesn't equate to 50 cents a day. This logic is flawed. There is no current mmorpg which charges you on a daily bases, if it did then I could see 50 cents being correct per day, but in the real world it does not work. Every sub is a monthly charge of $15 roughly. If the average mmorpg sub based game has an average player length of 1 year then they end up paying $180 a year on sub based material, while the games patches for the first year after launch are mostly bug fixes and hardly any content if any at all.

Take into account the economy. $15 extra a month could mean a couple meals less to a lot of folks, and with the cost of living increasing on a monthly bases, people are not making up for it in their checks. Also take into account how many of these mmorpg have failed, or have taken customers for granted. People don't look at it the same way they did 6+ years ago. I know for a fact that most mmorpg sub based fees are way to much for the product they are offering.

Not one mmorpg of today that is at the $15 mark is worth it in my opinion. If they want to charge you this amount they should offer better quality gameplay and more content and support. They are to worried about making profits off a old sub model that was around since EQ because the market was still fresh and new and people were okay at paying for something fun and new, today it is not so much fun and new anymore and everyone seems to be offering the same old same old.


Actually - it's because the economy is so bad that the $15 per month becomes one of the best bargains around! My wife and I both play MMO's and typically one at a time which costs us a total of $30 per month. Ok..so we're at a dollar a day now.

Have you any idea how much money that saves us since we spend most of our free time playing MMO's? We used to spend so much more before MMO's came around there's no comparison - so we're actually SAVING money.

So I'm back to my original post of "Why the obsession with sub cost?" Why are people ok with spending 50-100 dollars per month for cell phones but not $15 dollars for a 24/7 online game?

Only Netflix is a comparable value per monthly fee and people had a cow when they raised rates. You get 24/7 streaming and unlimited rentals for one low price per month and this is not a good value? What is wrong with people?

I guess it comes from being on this earth longer and remembering what video games used to be - sucking my quarters at the arcade (sometimes $20 per afternoon and this is back in the 80's!) I had to drive to the arcade and even "gasp" wait my turn to play the newest games. And Star Wars was awesome to us back then but incredibly lame looking back on it now:

Younger people have no concept of patience and like someone one said: I'd like to see what would happen if a young person today had to dial 9 on a rotary dial - their head would explode lol

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

need I even say it?

 

I still have two weeks vacation time saved up for early access / release. Gonna fill the fridge with beer, stock up on munchies, and not move from this chair for as long as humanly possible.

Man I envy you :)

Originally posted by romanator0
Originally posted by echolynfan
Originally posted by romanator0
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by romanator0

Any developer who wants me to pay for the privelage of playing their game and then is going to lock me out after a certain amount of time unless i pay them more are con artists as far as i'm concerned.

Er, don't finance a car.

You do know we're talking about games, right? Not cars, not houses, not electricity. Just games.

Free to play games only get money from their cash shop. They only need a tiny portion of the community to buy anything in the cash shop for them to be profitable.

Games like TOR, WoW, Rift, TSW and Tera all generate revenue from box sales. Something that free to play games don't get. On top of that a number of sub based games are also adding cash shops or other microtransactions where they generate continual revenue.

There is no reason at all for a developer to lock people out of a game with a subscription when every justification for one is already covered.


They have every reason to: It's THEIR business. And why do you think Game Deverlopers are any different from any other business? All need a profit to stay in business - they're not here for your free enjoyment. Pay to play or not - it's your choice.

That reason still doesn't justify a subscription. It only sounds like an excuse people in denial would use so they don't have to face the fact that they are being scammed.

All reasoning that a subscription is needed is nullified when a developer makes money off of game sales and makes money through microtransactions.

Subscriptions for games are scams.


No - they're not. You want an example of a scam - here's one:

You order a BK Whopper after you see this lucious picture:

But instead receive this one:

Now THAT is a scam.

 

Originally posted by OgreRaper

One of their best patches ever. Raid Finder is an absolute genre changing feature.


 


<3  4.3

Raid finder = FAIL finder lol

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Its really simple

When you pay subscription you are compelled to play.

Otherwise you payed for something you are not using. And that is against nature of many people.

 

I have so many games on my plate. I can not dedicate time to one. Not to mention that I might not have time to play, more often than not.

 

This is where F2P comes to play.

Its good because you choose when, what or why.

And you pay only for what you use or need.

You might play Champions today. Than Fallen earth for two days. Than play Skyrim for week. And than play City of heroes for day or two...

And not feel you have that game you payed subscription for, but you are not playing...

 

 

After you experience the freedom F2P gives you. Its almost impossible to go back to P2P

 


Spend my time playing games that suck for free or pay for games that don't suck...hmmm...let me think..

Originally posted by romanator0
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by romanator0

Any developer who wants me to pay for the privelage of playing their game and then is going to lock me out after a certain amount of time unless i pay them more are con artists as far as i'm concerned.

Er, don't finance a car.

You do know we're talking about games, right? Not cars, not houses, not electricity. Just games.

Free to play games only get money from their cash shop. They only need a tiny portion of the community to buy anything in the cash shop for them to be profitable.

Games like TOR, WoW, Rift, TSW and Tera all generate revenue from box sales. Something that free to play games don't get. On top of that a number of sub based games are also adding cash shops or other microtransactions where they generate continual revenue.

There is no reason at all for a developer to lock people out of a game with a subscription when every justification for one is already covered.


They have every reason to: It's THEIR business. And why do you think Game Deverlopers are any different from any other business? All need a profit to stay in business - they're not here for your free enjoyment. Pay to play or not - it's your choice.

Originally posted by Tyvolus1
Originally posted by echolynfan

I've read about so many people complaining about the $14.95 subscription cost for SWTOR and other MMO's for that matter. Those same people probably think nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on iPads and other crap but when it comes to what is essentially .50 cents per day for 24/7 entertainment they have a freaking cow.

And - most MMO's provide new content on a regular basis in the form of patches included in the monthly fee so you have a never ending game.

Obviously paying for a sub for a game that sucks makes no sense and MMO developers have to produce games and content that customers will WANT to pay for. If they don't ::cough:: Star Trek Online :cough:: they become FTP.

Is .50 cents per day for round the clock entertainment just too much for people to pay? Really?

 

 $15 a month to play a Single Player RPG is a rip-off.  Too many companies of late (and Bioware is the latest example) are making single player type RPGs with multi-player elements and co-op gameplay and trying to pawn it off as an MMORPG.  sorry, Im not one of the people who is going to play along with that scam.  Since MMORPGs are simply turning into RPGs with a sub fee, I am going to stick to traditional single player RPGs  (and far more enjoyable) games...thank you Bethesda.


Confucious say: People who know nothing should say nothing.

Originally posted by Mehve
Originally posted by romanator0

I don't know about other people, but for me it's not the price, it's the principle of the matter.

Any developer who wants me to pay for the privelage of playing their game and then is going to lock me out after a certain amount of time unless i pay them more are con artists as far as i'm concerned.

On the bright side, this approach leaves you without internet, so you have nothing to worry about.

LOL - I wish I had thought of that one :)

Originally posted by romanator0

I don't know about other people, but for me it's not the price, it's the principle of the matter.

Any developer who wants me to pay for the privelage of playing their game and then is going to lock me out after a certain amount of time unless i pay them more are con artists as far as i'm concerned.

LOL - so when that magazine sub runs out and they ask you to renew or you won't get your next issue...they're con artists as well? When your rent is due and you will get kicked out for not paying - your landlord  is a con artist?

Occupy somewhere is calling you :)

Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by huskie77
To this point, all of the major games to go F2P have seen an increase in profits by doing so. Nobody is certain what the longterm viability of this strategy is yet.

I've always wondered.  It definitely did work for the first major titles to jump the conversion.  But will it still work entering a large and competitive field of hundreds of other F2P games?

It appears at some point that the player base becomes too spread out (across many games) to support it being "profitable", and F2P games will start to bankrupt themselves by attrition.

F2P games are more profitable because everyone likes to get something for "free" but then these same companies introduce all these cool cash shop items you either can't live without or need to advance in the game. Now - you're paying a crap ton more for the game than a standard sub. But - since people can decide for themselves whether or not they want to spend the money on these items that somehow seems ok.

"shakes head:

 

Originally posted by h0urg1ass
Originally posted by holifeet

He certainly shouldn't be coming here and listing a whole page of complaints that a game doesn't have what he wants when that game never really appeared to be likely to provide that. It's like buying a sandwich from a vegetarian cafe and asking why they don't have ham. You'll get told you've come to the wrong place. At least he was constructive, even if he was angry, but that's besides the point in his case.

 

No, that's a terrible anaology.  It's like going into a vegetarian sandwich shop and every sandwich on the menu is lettuce and rye with a different name.

Some of us are sick of eating lettuce on rye every meal, and calling it "le lettuce au rye" doesn't change the fact that it's still lettuce on rye.  I want to walk into the vegetarian sandwich shop and see lettuce on rye, tomato on sourdough, tofu burger on wheat and lots of options.  Not the same thing renamed time and time again.

Excuse me while I go out and get some real food:

Originally posted by Fennris

I agree with most of your points and suspect that many at Bioware probably would also - they've said all along (apologetically? defiantly?) that they're creating a Wow clone and that was probably based on an order from the top of the chain that wanted to take the "safe path" to investment return (a path blazed by EQ and Wow and followed by AoC, Warhammer, DCU and others - looking at the legacy they should have rethought).

 

The game is a bit dated.  The LFG is from CoH - Wow has a better instance/grouping tool now.  The graphics are not as smooth as Wow's unless you turn the resolution way down.  The PvP is not balanced.   The voice acting and quest focus in the lower levels reminds me a lot of my first days of EQ2 except that the stories here are a bit better.  The narrow environments where you can't jump/climb up/over certain ledges/rocks reminds me of some of AoC's zones.  And then there's the trinity concept which doesn't fit with any of the movies or their cinematics but Wow did it (as did many many other lackluster games so far) so...

You can cancel your pre-order from most companies.  I did.

 

 

But SWTOR doesn't have Gnomes, Dwarves, Elves or Goblins...so it has that going for it :)

Originally posted by Zlayer77
Originally posted by h0urg1ass

After having experienced two Beta weekends now, I have to finally say something somewhere about this game.  That something is that I'm highly disappointed in this installment of the Star Wars franchise!

{mod edit}  I must say I like your Review, the game sounds exacly what I thought it would be... Nothing new under the sun "this is not the GAME you are looking for"

Thanx for taking your time to write this.. sorry you are going to get trashed for speaking the truth....

I'm sorry - "opinion" does not equal "truth"

@OP: "My first MMO experience was EVE"

And this will always be your problem - Sandboxes good - Themeparks - Bad.

To me - Eve is a pain in the ass and sucks...to each his own as they say :)

Originally posted by Siveria

Well the thing is, Bioware promised a generic mmorpg and they delivered one near-flawlessly, Problem is, people are sick to death of the world of warcraft-like generic mmorpg.

No - I'm just sick of WOW. Throwing a sticky grenade on an enemy NPC and watching them scream trying to take it off before they explode and take their friends with them = WIN

SWTOR just rocks!

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