Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | Guild Wars 2 | Hearthstone | Skyforge

  Network:  RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,960,439 Users Online:0
Games:805  Posts:6,395,655
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodborne Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chroma Squad Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthlock: Festival of Magic Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Fable Legends Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Immune Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Necropolis Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Trapped Dead: Lockdown Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utherous Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles 3D Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

All Posts by Loktofeit

All Posts by Loktofeit

632 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last
12630 posts found
Originally posted by Dr_Shivinski
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Kiyoris

Some people love to hate on trinity, but it is still the superior combat system.

The major alternative so far has been ....

...collision detection, smart AI, skill-based systems, turn-based systems...

 

But you go ahead and write your own history. You're doing juuust fine. 

So the major alternative so far has been...Buzzwords? Sounds about right. The alternatives to the Trinity system have have been chaotic, zergy garbage.

WAR had collision detection and still had the Trinity. S

mart AI? In any mmo? Not really.

Skill-based? Anything takes skill of some form or another. Turn-based also doesn't imply a lack of the Trinity. 

Lets be honest here, there has yet to be a good alternative to the Tank/DPS-CC/Healer combo. Hell games that don't have a native Trinity system have it crammed in there by the playerbase. We did it in EVE with Incursions. We needed Healers (Logistics Cruisers) DPS (Pirate Faction Battleships) and in 20 and 40 man Incursions we had Tanks (Tank fit battleships that people Anchored to.)

You say EVE has Trinity combat and then cite as your example Incursions, home of Sleeper AI. 

Added a link to help you out. 

 

Originally posted by Kiyoris
Originally posted by YashaX
There are a lot of Korean mmos, what game in particular are you talking about?

Vindictus, CO9, Black Desert, Blade&Sould, Blessed, ArcheAge, Cabal 2, etc.

Almost all major MMO from Korea have made all classes into DPS classes where everyone is capable of soloing and where strictly defined roles are no longer required.

Yes, in Vindictus, all classes can do damage. That game has replaced the Trinity with action combat, a non-taunt aggro system and gameplay that is far more engaged for all participants involved. In Vindictus, you can chain down your enemy. With some of them, there are different results, depending on where you hit them. I haven't played in a few years, but I remember one battle where part of the team was dedicated to actually crippling the boss, bringing him to his knees with carefully placed javelin shots and then struggling to pull the javelin's chains in different directions to hold the bastard still. 

If you refuse to acknowledge that the game completely changes once you replace taunt-based aggro with any of several other combat systems, then yes... everything else is just DPS DPS DPS. UO and AC? Just DPS. EVE, just DPS. Wizard 101? Just DPS. ALL PVP EVER... just DPS. 

 

EDIT: Well said, stayontarget.

Originally posted by Kiyoris

Some people love to hate on trinity, but it is still the superior combat system.

The major alternative so far has been ....

...collision detection, smart AI, skill-based systems, turn-based systems...

 

But you go ahead and write your own history. You're doing juuust fine. 

Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
No I don't remember any of that. I had a different experience. 

Same here, as I played almost every MMO except EQ. What the OP describes is the reason I only spent a week in EQ. Repetitive grind... bleh.

Probably why the OP also made the comment about today's younger generations being ADD, thus needing the instant gratification of current MMO's. You lose interest because you can't maintain focus. There was nothing wrong with grinding in vanilla EQ. In fact, there was nothing wrong with vanilla EQ period. When you earned a level in EQ, it was satisfying every "DING!"

Now, getting to max level barely even phases people. Makes me wonder why developers scratch their heads trying to figure out why they can't make money. Well, maybe cause you create easy content that can be blitzed through in a week. Subscription based MMO's are failing now because you've changed the games. What took months or years back in the day, can now be done in a week or less. Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out and if you don't stop feeding the content locust's agenda, you'll never get anywhere near profitable with an MMO.

Me not wantng to bang my head against the wall every day for few hours doesnt make me ADD, unable to keep focus.

The "real" MMO failed when much more enjoyable alternative appeared and everyone jumped ship from "real" MMO.

Yeah, farming same pixies for 6 weeks few hours a day. Those were the days. not

Thank you, Malabooga. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that was a strange leap of logic.

Rhoklaw,  your post seems to indicate you really haven't played anything outside of linear level grinds, so I'll write off your comment to just a lack of experience. While EQers were stalwartly braving the monotony of grinding to prove their manhood in a 'true' MMO. The rest of us were doing all sorts of 'instant gratification' things because of our 'younger generation ADD' (oh, those darn instant gratification kids spoiling MMOs back then!):

  • - building and maintaining player-run venues like
    • taverns
    • gambling halls
    • player cities
    • RP environments
    • fight arenas
    • mage towers and other SIG venues
  • - roleplaying, fighting and socializing in the above player-run venues
  • - organizing monthly meetings of the Monarchs (guild leaders) of our servers to address community issues and concerns
  • - organizing/joining content teams (official or player-run) to create quests, story arcs and plot characters based on official lore
  • - engaging in activities that require little or even zero combat such as being a dedicated crafter, fisherman, treasure hunter, baker, veterinarian, or even a rogue that does rogue things other than just backstab and hide.
So, yes, we had a different experience. For some reason the diehard EQers seem to refuse to accept that not only was there more to early MMOs than just EQ, it was a pretty diverse set of experiences.
 
Look, you like EQ and that's just fine. But when someone says they didn't care for it, it's a little arrogant - if not completely rude and uncalled for - to tell them that they didn't like EQ because they can't maintain focus or, worse, that if they didn't like grinding in EQ then it must be because they have a psychological disorder.

Actually, I'm willing to bet I've played more MMO's than most people on this website. Is that a boast or is it fact? How many games I've played isn't what the discussion is about though. It's about current MMO's lack of difficulty. It's about content locusts and FPS instant gratification kids getting their way for the past 10 years. Despite what most would expect or believe, there are in fact a lot of old time MMO veterans who miss games like vanilla EQ, SWG, AC and DAoC. Most of which are in MY opinion leagues ahead of some of the current MMO's on the market. In fact, in the past 10 years, LOTRO, ArcheAge and ESO are about the only MMO's I'd consider an actual improvement to the genre since then. Except ArcheAge is being managed by a bunch of nitwits so that diamond fell through the cracks. LOTRO was one of the first subscription based games to take on the hybrid B2P model and did so with amazing success.

As for ESO, you can wear your tinfoil hat if you like, but I'm pretty sure this website has dictated it as the #1 MMO of the past year. Is it exactly what most of us old time vets are looking for? Not 100% but definitely better than most games.

So no, this discussion has nothing to do with game features. It has to do with game difficulty. So your bullet point breakdown of you and your guilds successes was rather nice and all but completely missed the point.

Why you went on that ePeen tirade about the amount of MMOs you've played is beyond me, but good for you. o7 

After that, you change the goal posts to some present day vs old school MMO thing that had nothing to do with the discussion which was that HFS, Malabooga and I had a different gaming experience back then.

"As for ESO, you can wear your tinfoil hat if you like..." <--- I'm not sure what stance you think I took on ESO or why you feel so compelled to throw around insults, but last I checked, ESO wasn't around back then so that comment is an odd one no matter how you look at it. It's just a bit humorous that you say we can't focus and that we have ADD, but three posts into a discussion and you're miles off topic on three different tangents in one single reply.  :)

 

To get back on track...

  • You said people didn't like the grind because they either couldn't focus or they had mental problems.
  • We pointed out that we didn't like to grind mobs because we were doing other things in game that we found more fun, not for the reasons you mentioned. The list was to give you some examples.

Now, it would be great to get a response from you on that topic. However, if you're going to get insulted over perceived slights to your gaming prowess or lash out at us then please don't waste our time and refrain from replying.

 

 

I brought up my gaming history because of the comment you made in your prior post that I only played linear level grinds. So, that explains that apparent off topic remark.

How does one make any relevant statement about games of the past without comparing them to games of the present? I was trying to point out that some present day games that released recently were bringing back at least some of the old school feel. ArcheAge with it's ridiculous amount of features compared to SWG and ESO with it's Cyrodiil equivalent to that of DAoC's Frontiers. So while some aspects of classic games are making their way back. It's still nothing close to what it was, which makes no sense to me. How did we lose complexity and challenge in exchange for fast paced leveling and instant gratification. So, that explains that apparent off topic remark.

My tinfoil hat comment was directed at the majority of people still complaining about a game they probably haven't even touched since launch. While a majority of the stuff they complained about was legitimate, there are those who complained about the veteran level grind. Which to me is a prime example of the impatient syndrome present with todays FPS instant gratification kids. So, in my opinion, ESO is the #1 MMO on the market, much like this website has shown. Probably due to deep lore, the grind, food and drink that matters and Cyrodiil. All things that made games of old like EQ and DAoC popular. So, that explains that apparent off topic remark.

Grind isn't a huge deal to me. I've played MMO's since 1996. I have patience and I enjoy the admiration of my achievements. Something you don't see in todays MMO's. This doesn't mean a game can only have grind and that's it. Just like I posted about ArcheAge having a crap ton of features such as farming, building neighborhoods and badass naval simulation. Reminded me of what SWG brought to the table years ago. Now we have games like The Repopulation and Crowfall bringing back the varied quality of resources too. EQ wasn't just about grind. It was about everything from actual night time, meditating to recover mana, racial language barriers, death that actual meant something and socializing. So, that explains that apparent off topic remark.

If you have any other issues with my posts, please feel free to let me know.

Nah. I'm good. We didn't say there weren't other things to EQ or that the other things in EQ weren't fun. I mean, I even specifically stated that the other things were present and fun when I said "... we didn't like to grind mobs because we were doing other things in game that we found more fun" but evidently if there's ANY aspect of EQ a person states they don't like, you get defensive and off topic. You're still arguing against points/stances that no one has made, so I guess we're done here. Thanks for the colors, though! 

 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Puerile is people

I think your autocorrect is trolling you. :) 

That's a good point, greenreen. I didn't even think of casting/streaming. That's actually kind of a big thing to consider. 
Kingdoms of Amalur
Originally posted by Torcip
Relying on a customer base solely limited to people with high end computers is a sure way to run a sinking ship of a game company.

Especially if it's a game company that makes MMOs, because if the target customer wants the latest graphics then the studio has to either plan for regular texture or engine overhauls every 2-3 years or prepare to lose those players to the next game that will push the limits of their rig. 

Originally posted by Dullahan
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Well eq didn't have any building so that takes out 6 things on the list. It also didn't have veterinarian do that takes out another. Are you sure you played eq?
  • - building and maintaining player-run venues like
    • taverns
    • gambling halls
    • player cities
    • RP environments
    • fight arenas
    • mage towers and other SIG venues
  • - roleplaying, fighting and socializing in the above player-run venues
  • - organizing monthly meetings of the Monarchs (guild leaders) of our servers to address community issues and concerns
  • - organizing/joining content teams (official or player-run) to create quests, story arcs and plot characters based on official lore
  • - engaging in activities that require little or even zero combat such as being a dedicated crafter, fisherman, treasure hunter, baker, veterinarian, or even a rogue that does rogue things other than just backstab and hide.
Each of the main points were a thing in EQ, especially on RP servers.  You didn't build things but they certainly utilized the world to engage in those activities.
 
And lets be honest shall we, today were only further away from those activities than we were in the days of EQ and SWG.
 
Ultimately, that wasn't even the point of this thread but just another attempt to grasp at straws because the OP made a good point and there is no refuting it, no matter how many times you pretend that players of older games were discontent about "grinding."  The content was still more meaningful to those of us who played those games than anything today.  By a landslide vote.  The fact that I couldn't just go anywhere and do anything and there was no golden path is proof enough.  Every npc had to be considered, every decision you would be held accountable to due to factions and deities.  People are currently going nuts for stuff in Pillars of Eternity for many of these same reasons we enjoyed EverQuest, and yet here are a bunch of late comers talking about old games using the same tired rhetoric without a clue of how things really were.

The problem that you and a few others here have is that you get defensive to the point of actually hostile if you perceive a slight to EQ.

No one is trying to take away how meaningful EQ was for you. We said our experience was different and we found other things more fun. In other MMOs, those activites were the norm, not the exception. On the non-combat classes, I guess I'm mistaken. I don't remember being able to level up in EQ without fighting. If that was there, I never could find it.

Anyway, we didn't say your opinion was wrong. We didn't say you didn't have, shouldn't have or couldn't have had fun grinding mobs. But when you and certain others read an opinion different from yours about things like... ohh.... let's see....

 

  • "What made an MMO fun was the endless progression."
  • "Grind? That's all mmorpgs used to be. We loved them."

you get defensive and hostile. You really can't see how that doesn't help?

Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
No I don't remember any of that. I had a different experience. 

Same here, as I played almost every MMO except EQ. What the OP describes is the reason I only spent a week in EQ. Repetitive grind... bleh.

Probably why the OP also made the comment about today's younger generations being ADD, thus needing the instant gratification of current MMO's. You lose interest because you can't maintain focus. There was nothing wrong with grinding in vanilla EQ. In fact, there was nothing wrong with vanilla EQ period. When you earned a level in EQ, it was satisfying every "DING!"

Now, getting to max level barely even phases people. Makes me wonder why developers scratch their heads trying to figure out why they can't make money. Well, maybe cause you create easy content that can be blitzed through in a week. Subscription based MMO's are failing now because you've changed the games. What took months or years back in the day, can now be done in a week or less. Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out and if you don't stop feeding the content locust's agenda, you'll never get anywhere near profitable with an MMO.

Me not wantng to bang my head against the wall every day for few hours doesnt make me ADD, unable to keep focus.

The "real" MMO failed when much more enjoyable alternative appeared and everyone jumped ship from "real" MMO.

Yeah, farming same pixies for 6 weeks few hours a day. Those were the days. not

Thank you, Malabooga. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that was a strange leap of logic.

Rhoklaw,  your post seems to indicate you really haven't played anything outside of linear level grinds, so I'll write off your comment to just a lack of experience. While EQers were stalwartly braving the monotony of grinding to prove their manhood in a 'true' MMO. The rest of us were doing all sorts of 'instant gratification' things because of our 'younger generation ADD' (oh, those darn instant gratification kids spoiling MMOs back then!):

  • - building and maintaining player-run venues like
    • taverns
    • gambling halls
    • player cities
    • RP environments
    • fight arenas
    • mage towers and other SIG venues
  • - roleplaying, fighting and socializing in the above player-run venues
  • - organizing monthly meetings of the Monarchs (guild leaders) of our servers to address community issues and concerns
  • - organizing/joining content teams (official or player-run) to create quests, story arcs and plot characters based on official lore
  • - engaging in activities that require little or even zero combat such as being a dedicated crafter, fisherman, treasure hunter, baker, veterinarian, or even a rogue that does rogue things other than just backstab and hide.
So, yes, we had a different experience. For some reason the diehard EQers seem to refuse to accept that not only was there more to early MMOs than just EQ, it was a pretty diverse set of experiences.
 
Look, you like EQ and that's just fine. But when someone says they didn't care for it, it's a little arrogant - if not completely rude and uncalled for - to tell them that they didn't like EQ because they can't maintain focus or, worse, that if they didn't like grinding in EQ then it must be because they have a psychological disorder.

Actually, I'm willing to bet I've played more MMO's than most people on this website. Is that a boast or is it fact? How many games I've played isn't what the discussion is about though. It's about current MMO's lack of difficulty. It's about content locusts and FPS instant gratification kids getting their way for the past 10 years. Despite what most would expect or believe, there are in fact a lot of old time MMO veterans who miss games like vanilla EQ, SWG, AC and DAoC. Most of which are in MY opinion leagues ahead of some of the current MMO's on the market. In fact, in the past 10 years, LOTRO, ArcheAge and ESO are about the only MMO's I'd consider an actual improvement to the genre since then. Except ArcheAge is being managed by a bunch of nitwits so that diamond fell through the cracks. LOTRO was one of the first subscription based games to take on the hybrid B2P model and did so with amazing success.

As for ESO, you can wear your tinfoil hat if you like, but I'm pretty sure this website has dictated it as the #1 MMO of the past year. Is it exactly what most of us old time vets are looking for? Not 100% but definitely better than most games.

So no, this discussion has nothing to do with game features. It has to do with game difficulty. So your bullet point breakdown of you and your guilds successes was rather nice and all but completely missed the point.

Why you went on that ePeen tirade about the amount of MMOs you've played is beyond me, but good for you. o7 

After that, you change the goal posts to some present day vs old school MMO thing that had nothing to do with the discussion which was that HFS, Malabooga and I had a different gaming experience back then.

"As for ESO, you can wear your tinfoil hat if you like..." <--- I'm not sure what stance you think I took on ESO or why you feel so compelled to throw around insults, but last I checked, ESO wasn't around back then so that comment is an odd one no matter how you look at it. It's just a bit humorous that you say we can't focus and that we have ADD, but three posts into a discussion and you're miles off topic on three different tangents in one single reply.  :)

 

To get back on track...

  • You said people didn't like the grind because they either couldn't focus or they had mental problems.
  • We pointed out that we didn't like to grind mobs because we were doing other things in game that we found more fun, not for the reasons you mentioned. The list was to give you some examples.

Now, it would be great to get a response from you on that topic. However, if you're going to get insulted over perceived slights to your gaming prowess or lash out at us then please don't waste our time and refrain from replying.

 

 

Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Archaegeo

Id love to see a developer with their own money state simply: These are our required specs, yes, they are high, no, we aren't going to lower them for your 4 year old computer.

Need bill gates or someone like that to fund the MMO he wants that requires current hardware to play, looks incredible, and gets 45 fps max on the best hardware :)

We see it over an over, great trailers of beautiful games, from in game engine real gameplay, only to end up looking like crap cause once they get to public they have to dumb everything down effects and graphics wise to some lowest common denominator.

Or even if they are able to leave a high end, if it has pvp, then everyone lowers it for higher fps and getting rid of shadows/grass/etc.

I know, kids cant ask mommy and daddy for a new computer every year.

 

What world do you live in where Mommy and Daddy get free high-end gaming rigs, or where there's any history of such an MMO being economically viable to create? 

 

Actually, in the early days of MMORPG's, i remember games like DAOC requiring specific graphic cards, there were like 12 they supported, and all reasonably expensive for their day.  I recall having to upgrade my old computer to the latest processors, boosting ram with every new game release.

Vanguard in fact was the MMORPG that broke the trend, they said they misjudged the level of tech adoption that their customers would have at launch, hence some of the issues with performance.

MMO's did use to be coded for a higher end box, and it really was WOW that started the trend to making games that ran on the lowest common denominator.

More profitable, yes, better for gamers, or at least those who can afford it, no.

Remember the old motto, the computer you really want to buy costs $5000.  (Machrone's law)  Still true today.

 DAoC could run on most video cards at the time, as it still did a lot of the work through the CPU, which is why the sys reqs for it at the time were based on the type of processor you had.

 

Sys Reqs at release:

Processor: Pentium II: PII 450Mhz

  • RAM: 256M RAM
  • HDD: 600M
  • Video: 3D accelerated video card w/ 32M

 

Processor: Pentium III/IV

  • RAM: 128M
  • HDD: 600M
  • Video: 3D accelerated video card w/ 16M

 

Recommended Sys Reqs:

  • Processor: PIII 1Ghz
  • RAM: 256M or higher
  • Video: 3D accelerated video card w/ 32M

 

To put that in perspective, most video cards released in late 1999 (DAoC came out in 2001) were 16M or 32M cards. DAoC did have a problem with some of the early Voodoos, but I think V3 and V5 both worked with the game. I remember my Wife getting a patch for her Voodoo2 drivers so that DAoC would display decals and some other textures properly.

 

And, really... do you really want to use Vanguard as an example? 

It definitely is an example, of course... an example of why you shouldn't go that route.

Originally posted by DeVoDeVo
Originally posted by slowpoke68

Actually, if it could be proven that they intentionally defrauded people they would be in violation of a host of federal and state criminal laws.

So there is that.

..and there it is.  The key to getting away with the kickstarter money scot free.   You have to make it *appear* that you're working diligently to produce a product.

The final piece of the robbery is, of course, the ending letter about how you gave it your best shot but there just wasn't enough time and money.   Perhaps say the game is on hold while you are procuring more money.

Funny... that sounds vaguely familiar. :)

Originally posted by Archaegeo

Id love to see a developer with their own money state simply: These are our required specs, yes, they are high, no, we aren't going to lower them for your 4 year old computer.

Need bill gates or someone like that to fund the MMO he wants that requires current hardware to play, looks incredible, and gets 45 fps max on the best hardware :)

We see it over an over, great trailers of beautiful games, from in game engine real gameplay, only to end up looking like crap cause once they get to public they have to dumb everything down effects and graphics wise to some lowest common denominator.

Or even if they are able to leave a high end, if it has pvp, then everyone lowers it for higher fps and getting rid of shadows/grass/etc.

I know, kids cant ask mommy and daddy for a new computer every year.

 

What world do you live in where Mommy and Daddy get free high-end gaming rigs, or where there's any history of such an MMO being economically viable to create? 

 

Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Torval
Originally posted by sketocafe
It'd be a tough sell. Most people are hooked on the convenience features we have in most games and never give any thought to what they're giving up in return for the convenience.

Those were added to games as a convenience features because the overwhelming majority of players wanted it. Some early games that didn't have maps ended up with community created maps dotted with points of interest and information. No one unwittingly gave up anything. Players sought out well crafted maps because they didn't like the mapless alternative.

Ha, no. I never heard anyone say they wish they had maps.

Third party maps are fine, because they're static. It's different from a GPS map entirely.

Like many things, devs include maps because WoW included maps, and that's necessary for hand holding quest based leveling.

What you heard is immaterial, when site traffic, game metrics, exit surveys and player feedback say otherwise. DAOC Catacombs, The Brasse's EQ2/LOTRO site and many others saw tons of traffic to their map/atlas pages during the early days of those MMOs. zExplorer was extremely popular with UO and AC players.  Personally, I liked that the Old Forest had no map, but even some of the biggest fans of LoTR were requesting a map for it in LOTRO.

Players have wanted maps for as long as there were MMOs, and they have always turned to third party sources when the games didn't provide them.

 

Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by Rhoklaw
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
No I don't remember any of that. I had a different experience. 

Same here, as I played almost every MMO except EQ. What the OP describes is the reason I only spent a week in EQ. Repetitive grind... bleh.

Probably why the OP also made the comment about today's younger generations being ADD, thus needing the instant gratification of current MMO's. You lose interest because you can't maintain focus. There was nothing wrong with grinding in vanilla EQ. In fact, there was nothing wrong with vanilla EQ period. When you earned a level in EQ, it was satisfying every "DING!"

Now, getting to max level barely even phases people. Makes me wonder why developers scratch their heads trying to figure out why they can't make money. Well, maybe cause you create easy content that can be blitzed through in a week. Subscription based MMO's are failing now because you've changed the games. What took months or years back in the day, can now be done in a week or less. Seriously, it's not that hard to figure out and if you don't stop feeding the content locust's agenda, you'll never get anywhere near profitable with an MMO.

Me not wantng to bang my head against the wall every day for few hours doesnt make me ADD, unable to keep focus.

The "real" MMO failed when much more enjoyable alternative appeared and everyone jumped ship from "real" MMO.

Yeah, farming same pixies for 6 weeks few hours a day. Those were the days. not

Thank you, Malabooga. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that was a strange leap of logic.

Rhoklaw,  your post seems to indicate you really haven't played anything outside of linear level grinds, so I'll write off your comment to just a lack of experience. While EQers were stalwartly braving the monotony of grinding to prove their manhood in a 'true' MMO. The rest of us were doing all sorts of 'instant gratification' things because of our 'younger generation ADD' (oh, those darn instant gratification kids spoiling MMOs back then!):

  • - building and maintaining player-run venues like
    • taverns
    • gambling halls
    • player cities
    • RP environments
    • fight arenas
    • mage towers and other SIG venues
  • - roleplaying, fighting and socializing in the above player-run venues
  • - organizing monthly meetings of the Monarchs (guild leaders) of our servers to address community issues and concerns
  • - organizing/joining content teams (official or player-run) to create quests, story arcs and plot characters based on official lore
  • - engaging in activities that require little or even zero combat such as being a dedicated crafter, fisherman, treasure hunter, baker, veterinarian, or even a rogue that does rogue things other than just backstab and hide.
So, yes, we had a different experience. For some reason the diehard EQers seem to refuse to accept that not only was there more to early MMOs than just EQ, it was a pretty diverse set of experiences.
 
Look, you like EQ and that's just fine. But when someone says they didn't care for it, it's a little arrogant - if not completely rude and uncalled for - to tell them that they didn't like EQ because they can't maintain focus or, worse, that if they didn't like grinding in EQ then it must be because they have a psychological disorder.
 
 

 

 

Originally posted by HabitualFrogStomp
No I don't remember any of that. I had a different experience. 

Same here, as I played almost every MMO except EQ. What the OP describes is the reason I only spent a week in EQ. Repetitive grind... bleh.

Originally posted by Alumicard

The point is that all MMORPGs are in essence the same imho. A hero needs to do quests to grow and then fight for better gear, more glory (pvp) or something.

It's the catch-22 this crowd has created for itself. They want evolution, innovation, something new, etc but when it comes along, they reject it for not being real, pure, old school or whatever.  MMOs have evolved and millions are enjoying them. This crowd is just late to the party. 

Originally posted by Piscore

Simple, these games are P2W, and russian ppl like P2W games, in NA or EU games with this model ppl dont like it.

 

That's a big part of it. The culture is similar, the playstyles are similar, and F2P ges over better there than in NA. 

Originally posted by Arclan

But today no one has down time. No one is looking for social opportunities when waiting for the bus or standing in an elevator. We are all looking at our smart phones.

What do you think all those people are doing when they are looking at their smartphones?

Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Recipe:

- Make some "engine" (actually, you license one, preferably one which also offers some art assets). There are several you can use for free if you're Indie, at least before you go commercial (which will never happen).

- Edit something that looks like a game. Basic character movement and some explosions will do the job, and that's basic features of those "engine" packages.

- Make some videos, screenshots, and when asked, say the real game is much more advanced than that.

- Put it on kickstarter. Cash in.

- Profit.

 

It's kinda scary that with MMOs, it'll work. With other games, if there's no big name behind it, the devs have very little chance. The MMO crowd just seems to go crazy for certain keywords, and it just triggers the most illogical spend response sometimes. 

632 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 » Last