Originally posted by someforumguy 

Maybe this is why you now only see real sandbox efforts popping up at indie companies using community driven projects through kickstarter.

It's going to be interesting to see how each of those indie devs handle maintaining the sandbox. Creating it is one thing, as you are in complete control of the vision and the gameplay. However, once the gates are thrown open things change. The team now has to balance between their vision of the game and where the players are taking the game through emergent behavior. It can be tricky at times, especially since players will often surprise you.

That's one of the reasons that I like the idea of systems in place to channel, filter and manage player input. ATITD's lawmaking system and EVE Online's CSM/CPM are excellent tools for identifying the best way to build in the direction the players are headed while still sticking with the vision of the game. SOE's Player Studio is another effective approach, albeit somewhat superficial sandboxery.

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Gorwe
Vanguard. Hands down.

For the combination of housing and crafting i would have to agree - Vanguard, hands down.

Vanguards housing is pathetic next to games like EQ2 and Rift though.  Its nice that its non instanced, but your options are not even  remotely close to Rift and EQ2.

I didn't know they added housing to Rift. I have to check that out.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

Problem is what you are doing is resorting to arguement by false-authority. While I wouldn't be surprised if the statement was factualy accurate, the evidence provided is pretty weak at best....

No. What i am doing is resorting to argument by REAL-authority.

A market research firm that sells analysis and data to game devs is real authority to me (at least better than any random dude on the internet). You can stick your head in the sand but numbers are numbers.

This is one of the biggest hurdles to any type of meaningful discussion here. This is data that companies pay tens of thousands of dollars for. It sells for that kind of money because companies find the data accurate enough and valuable enough to pay that much. There is no logical reason to believe SuperDataResearch, NewZoo or any of the other major sources are trying to be misleading or dealing with made up numbers. To put "but I believe" as a higher level of credibility over reliable industry data is absurd, yet it's done here all the time. Cite Bartle on MUDs and you get in reply "Who is he to decide that's right?" Cite Quarterly/Annual Shareholder Reports and you get in reply that they're hiding something or the numbers are fudged. Cite a developer on their ARPU/ARPPU and you get in reply that they're not going to give the real numbers or that it is marketing spin.

GM2, that you would call a thoroughly researched industry report "weak" or claim "false authority" to counter information from professionals in the industry is a bit ...odd, no?

Originally posted by flizzer
Good for you!

Agreed!

Ultima Online

• Snooping
• Stealing/Pickpocket
• Hiding/Stealth
• Disguise kits
• Setting/Disarming traps
• Poison (can be applied to weapons, traps or food)

I did myself a favor and reinstalled in a week ago on a couple of our machines. My son and I have been enjoying it immensely.

Jem, see if you can find one image that sums that up. Would be interesting to see what you come up with.

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by mastersomrat
One word...Travel!  I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game.  Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel.  Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech. 

What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?

if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.

If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel.  Why complain then?  Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.

Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.

I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.

Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?

In flight peanuts and gambling.

SOMERBlink? ;)

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by mastersomrat
One word...Travel!  I know it's a bit more realistic for travel to forever; however, this is a game.  Most people simply don't have the time for one hour of game time and three hours of travel.  Maybe some sort of StarTrek transporting tech. 

What exactly are you doing that requires 3 of every 4 hours devoted to travel?

if he's a marketeer freighting things from jita to amarr and back I can see trips adding up to several hours...I regularly do a 3-system trip back and forth in a freighter and it takes 15 minutes.

If he's running a freighter between market hubs then he intentionally chose a profession that revolves around travel.  Why complain then?  Trade in the station in Jita if you don't want to travel.

Let's not get defensive - or indeed aggressive - about the length of time it takes to travel in Eve. It certainly does take a long time to get about. What might make the game better if there were activities that a player could undertake *while* travelling. I don't know what those activities might be.

I dunno, seemed like a reasonable reply to me. However, I like your suggestion of things to do while in flight. I usually chat with corpmates, go through assets or browse the regional markets but I can see how others would want something more.

Maybe rats that can pull you out of warp?

Played WOW from release until TBC.

Currently playing EVE, shooters and several SOE titles.

Originally posted by Fraught

Thing is to try out the game for a fair while before spending any real money. I've enjoyed Neverwinter since open beta and has cost me ziltch so far.

Good advice. We just need more games with trials early on - and I don't mean betas. :)

Originally posted by KyutaSyuko
The way I see it Founder Packs are like Collector's Editions with the exception that the buyer doesn't get any real life merchandise.  Also if you do it right you can generally get more value out of the Founder Pack on some games.

That's exactly what Founder packs are. You're spot on.

As titles have shifted more from retail box to digital, we went from pre-order to collectors to founders. Pre-purchase has also appeared in the past year or two because it resonates better with the average brick-n-mortar leaning gamer than 'Founder' does due to a)  the name being easier to understand and b) a level of attachment to games lower than that of the avid MMO gamer.

Originally posted by DanitaKusor

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I don't think anyone (other than STO) has offered a lifetime sub in the past couple of years. Did you recently see one somewhere?

The Secret World also has a lifetime sub option.

Ah, I forgot about that one. Thanks for the info.

Originally posted by Burntvet
Didn't you know? SOE is doing about anything for a buck these days. ANd that is the long and the short of it. Not that that is any different from how they have always run things, but it has been worse these last few years, since they have been releasing bomb after bomb. The $$$ has to come from somewhere.

As a 'Burnt Vet' you're having trouble seeing the forest for the trees. SOE is one of the few NA/EU devs that's trying to build a stable of a diverse collection of MMOs. Not everything is going to be great and wonderful, but seriously, man... get over the greedy corp cash grab stuff. For one, it's really getting old. It's both amusing and sad watching people clamour for something different and then when devs try to offer something different those same people say the publisher is just doing anything for a buck.

Make up your minds already.

Originally posted by tussauc
It's an honest question that I can't think of a proper answer to; I'm not judging anyone I'm just curious. Why do people shell out $150+ on a single game? Is it dedication to, or maybe confidence in, the developers behind said MMO? Why?

Years ago, it seemed to make sense for the people who would spend a couple years in an MMO. When devs started offering the lifetime subs, it was a completely different payment landscape

• - free to play wasn't common in the NA/EU market
• - Cryptic hadn't yet started bending gamers over with their sleezy Lifetime/F2P switch.

I don't think anyone (other than STO) has offered a lifetime sub in the past couple of years. Did you recently see one somewhere?

Originally posted by Imperator101


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5--1rZR7VTo


This game will defintantly blow crappy Darkcrap Unholy Shit out of the water. I bet many Darkfall players will switch to this game and UW wars will close not long after Embers of Caerus is released. This looks like it will be the most immersive and brutal mmo game with amazing gameplay, bone clashing high adrenaline intense gameplay , sort of like the first person melee combat you see in Age of Chilvary. Such an immersive feel will really bring you into the game unlike Darkfall Unholy Crap
 

You must be new to MMOs. Welcome to the forums.

If I understand your post correctly, the iingredients to a successful MMORPG are:

• Create a level-based, gear-dependent game with unlimited levels, realistic graphics, and player created content.
• Build it for every platform.
• Make it free to play.

A rather ambitious project, no?

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Iselin

That is exactly right. The investors typically don't play the games.

You've made that claim several times about both investors and CEOs, and I really would like to know which investors and CEOs you are talking about. Could you name the ones you are referring to?

Hmm. I think I've said that once...about investors.

These are the top shareholders for EA:  http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=EA and Activision: http://investors.morningstar.com/ownership/shareholders-major.html?t=ATVI

 

How about you tell me how many gamers you see there...go ahead guess.

Yeah, I could have googled that, too, but that doesn't answer the question. Look, if you made up that fact, that's fine. No need to feel ashamed, Iselin.

Originally posted by Gorwe
Vanguard. Hands down.

For the combination of housing and crafting i would have to agree - Vanguard, hands down.