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Well, currently I am playing Archlord is why I posted here. But this post is a precursor to a more complete post on the subject. And it seemed that there was a few topics on PKing being addressed I thought I would test it out here. I am so tired of regular PvE games, but after so long away from the PvP games I am having a hard time setting my minds to the workings. So in fact I guess the post was for myself too. I am looking forward to a good PvP game, but not sure Archlord will be it. Perhaps Age of Conan will be more to my likeing, or maybe Archlord will become a bit better by release. |
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I noticed as you get rogue points for murdering, you get bigger experience loss at death. I also noticed on a normal death you lose 3% experience but are not able to lose a level. does the same rule apply with rogue points? can a pker not lose a level? If this is true, it will need to be changed, otherwise there will not be enough penalty for PKing. If someone buys a high level account of Ebay, and starts killing, how do we stop him? In most games, it is by killing him until he is down to low levels and can not hold his own to make it worth while. If you can't do that you will end up with a bunch of mid level Pkers with nothing to lose. |
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Well to begin with let me just say, you will not ever avoid PKing in a PvP game. It is part of the excitment in most PvP players opinions. I started online gaming in the day of BBC's and MUD's and continued on into one of the first graphical online RPG Meridian59, I then continued into Ultima Online where hacking and botting built uber PKers that I could not keep up with. At this point I melted into the PvE games such as EQ and such. I then worked for a couple of small companies as a tester/customer service. This is my take on PKing in general along with a little history of how I had dealt with it, in the hopes that it might help some people that are not experienced with PvP games. I am sure following this post many people will chime in and either correct me or my mistakes, or to add their own experience and opinions on the subject. As I mentioned, these are mainly my opinions alongside a small amount of fact. With that said I will begin... Back in the day... The online gaming community was more or less the same as an IRC channel with a dungeon master involved. This may seem stupid to a lot of todays gamers but it is what we had. Then it evolved with AOL bringing out Neverwinter nights, Disney brought out a graphical almost cartoonish online RPG called "The Realm", and 3DO bought and published "Meridian 59" I never played AOL, or Disney's game so I can not input on them. PKers are broken into a large variety of groups. Random PKers, casual PKers, RPPKers, disgruntaled PKers, Ganksters, and plain old Stupid PKers. Random PKers hit a point in the game, usually boredom, or things have gotten to hard, or they are ready to move on to a new game, in some cases..it is just their personallity. Random PKers are the ones you will usually run into, most of the time they are fairly low level, they carry crappy equipment to avoid loseing anything of value. Random PKers will usually pick on easy targets, ones that are almost dead from a fight, or just a lot lower. In some games they will do this to loot the corpse then transfer anything good over to their real charachter and gain equipment and loot for themselves in a "questionable" way. Casual Pkers, these are pretty uncommon, and usually are people that have hit a rough leveling area in the game, or hit end game and have nothing to do. Casual Pkers are usually mid to high level, and usually fight on fairer grounds, like waiting until you have finished you fight and healed before attacking you, they will tend to go after the loud mouthes in the ooc chat that like to talk bad about the people or the game, and usually won't loot anything from your corpse unless it is something prized in the game. RPPKers, ahhh the Role Playing PKer, this is one of my favorites. They are usually just role playing a bad guy. They vary anywhere from a lone murder, or bandit, to an entire band of role playing highwaymen, pirates, etc... These guys tend to be able to make getting PKed fun, and hunting and killing them even more fun. Disgruntalled Pker, this is the guy who had an uber charachter get hit with the nerf bat, or booted from a guild, or just seemed to get in a bad spot with the community...what else does he have to lose? Nothing, so he turns around and starts killing everyone. He is usually scorned, so is completely ruthless, has no boundries, and will attack anyone he sees, whether he thinks he can win or not. Ganksters....well, some people refer to the Random PKer that targets wounded people. I consider ganksters the very rare group of random PKers, you would be amazed at what a full group of low level PKers can accomplish. They are dangerous, but usually not tolerated for long, most of the time a band of higher levels will group together long enough to eliminate the problem. Plain old stupid Pkers...These are the lamest, the ones that claim, I just did it one time, I won't kill anyone else, I swear. Or my favorite, I was hacked, someone hacked my account logged on and killed all those people, then changed the password back. yeah, okay. In Merdian 59 PvP was fun, a lot of duels, and full out guild wars occured. A lot of random, and role playing PKers lurked about. A great community of people that hunted the Pkers. But the schools of magic were always unbalanced, and the someone figured out how to hack the game and cast hold spells that will not let go, etc... Ultima Online: it was the hacking and botting that ruined the PvP for me. How to avoid PKers? Well, you can't short of going to a PvE game or server. You can limit your deaths in many ways, a lot of life potions, fighting beast in a little traveled area, or playing in groups. It just occured to me that this sounds like it was written by a PKer, let me correct that. I am not a PKer, in the usual aspect. I am what some refer to as a Hunter. I hunt down and attempt to kill the PKers. As did all of my past guilds. Since I quit playing PvP back in the second year of UO I can admit I am rusty, but it's all comming back now. I hope to either start, or join a guild soon that has the same goals as I do. Feel free to contact me if you are interested in forming such a guild or are recruiting to a guild with these goals. |
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I was hunting last night and just hit level 9 with an orc hunter. When a duo pker group stopped by. An orc sorcer, and an orc beserker. One was level 7 the other level 8. I stopped killing the wolves I was hunting, and turned my crossbow on these two clowns, and dropped them both in short order. Shortly after that I hit level 10, a level 9 beserker waited until I was darn near dead fighting goblins, when he attacked, we both seemed to be carrying a load of life pots, because it took him awhile but he finally caught me off guard on the potions and killed me. I went right back out and killed him twice. No biggie. It is part of PvP to have random PKers. My suggestion, is find a quiet place to grind and get some levels out of the way, then turn around and hunt the PKers. My only problem with the random PKers is the lack of bounty on their heads. I look forward to dropping one of them and collecting a good bounty on them. Most of the bounties I have seen are on higher level pkers that I can not try to kill yet. Another means of avoiding the pkers is to carry a lot of life potions, I think it is 990 gold for 99 of them? I don't remember now, but as you are attacked you can either keep downing the potions as you fight back, or keep chugging them as you run like mad back to town. The other safe means of fighting is to get a group of three or more people going. Most pkers hunt solo, every now and then you will see a duo, rarely will you see more then 2 together at a time. This will keep you safe from the majority of the pkers, with the random appearence of the higher level PK that tends to run by, at that point you have no hope but to plan revenge for later. Good hunting! |
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I won't even respond to most of the "beating a dead horse" stuff you seem to be stuck on. I'm done reading all the holier then thou, thou shalt not cheat posting, and hearing how leet you are and I know nothing about gaming <even though I have been invited to beta test damn near every title out there, been an alpha tester on numerous projects, and have an ADD play style that while keeping me from being higher levels very often gives me a lot of experience with most races, and classes, in most major title MMORPG's, not to mention being a play tester, customer service, and E3 rep for a company that used to import and translate japanese RPG's for many years.> As much as you seem to think I am a novice, I have probablly played, hacked, cheated, owned, slaughtered, more games then the average gamer has even heard of. I am far from a novice, Between my first two MMORPG's M59, and UO my charachters whitch in both games spent 90% of their time hunting random PKers, had a total of well over 12,000 kills, all of which being PKers being brought to justice. Remember PKHQ? If you have never been on the sharp end of one of their guilds members you have not played PvP. Enough about what I have or have not done. This whole conversation towards wheter I cheated or not, is not even worth the time, my WoW account was cancelled a long time ago, and my only current account was EQ2 which is cancelled as of a couple hours ago. So there is no way my charachters power leveled or not can disturb anyone else any longer. Until a new game comes out that I think is playable, I will remain in my real life <short of a little Oblivion>. As far as your recomendation of CoV, CoH, you could not be further from the truth, that game does not suit a true fantasy RPG freak what so ever. I played them both, and while fun for a month or two, they get really old really fast, as do many games these days. Guess I am just getting too old. So where is the PvP gaming? This PvE stuff has gotten old!
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Major game company lawyer: Did you or did you not, check the box that says you have read and understand the EULA? Gamer: Yup.... Gamers lawyer: Did you actually read and understand the EULA? Gamer: Nope... Major game company lawyer: Then why did you check the box? Gamer: 'cause you can't play the game 'til ya do.... Gamers lawyer: Did they offer you an alternative to checking the box? Gamer: yup, don't play the game.... Gamers lawyer: That is the only other option, not a box that says you have read, but don't understand, or an I don't know how to read box? Gamer: Nope... Major game companys lawyer: Did you in fact read the EULA? Gamer: Nope... Judge: Why not? Gamer: I get lost in all the "afore mentioned's" the "therefores" and the other lawyer talk mumbojumbo crud that these legal documents use. It seems like it's not enough to just say, don't do this, don't do that. They have to say if you or they from here out known as them, do not comply to the afore mentioned documentation of the previous misspelling of the further noted name of the prvious administrator of the recently discombobulated refrence of the previous meaning of the use of the term them, you will have your account banned. If you or the afore mentioned them previously known as they perticipate in an ongoing misspelling of the previously used version of the afore mentioned they or them or any other spelling of their, there, they're will all be held accountable for the persuant copy of the fourth paragraph of third page of the fith book of the united states of america released version, or the fifth paragraph of the eithgh page of the aforementioned title released in the eastern europian nations, not withstanding, and includeing the first third, and thirteenth releash of the african american version of the afore mentioned title. If you do not comply you will be assimilated and become a member of the borg society. Unless you have parental consent. Judge: case dismissed....GET HIM OUT OF MY COURT ROOM! |
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I miss the old flame wars, anyone else? Sometimes they were better then PvP. |
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I'll tell you what, you go through and cut and paste the section of the EULA for seven diffrent games that state that, specifically, and I won't ever buy another level in those games...... |
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As far as this whole thing goes. As someone else said, I will play my game how I want, I pay for it too. You guys play your game the way you want. I think the trend in todays MMOs is rather disturbing when I have to dedicate a few hours to the game just to play. For the most part to gain any good items, or fast experience you have to be in a group, unless you have a static group, you can be online for a couple hours waiting for a good group to be put together. There are a lot of quest in game that can take you hours because of travel time, and or waiting on spawns to finish. Like most of the people I play with, I don't have this kind of time, when I log on during a week day I have an hour usually, two hours max. On the weekend I can sometimes dedicate a few hours, if the lawns are mowed, if the house is clean, if the kids don't need me to taxi them around, and my car doesn't need work done, and if I don't have to run errands. As an adult we don't have the time we used to have to play these game that are generation started, and brought to life. I think it's time someone steps up and brings in a game that we with time issues can play. If I had a game that allowed me to play when I had time, how I wanted to play I would be happy. Not sure how it would be done though. |
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That clears up everything!  |
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I don't wait for someone to tell me what I can do. I try it, and if someone tells me, no, you can not do that. Then I might stop. When it comes to power leveling. Nobody said we can not do this, atleast no one has told me. The EULA's usually sate that you may not use any third party program. Such as botting programs, such as programs that do crafting for you. You guys piss and moan about how we are taking a short cut to the top, but how many of you get up and rub two sticks together to make a fire so that you can have toast in the morning? How many of you go out to the chicken coop and gather eggs for your breakfest? Do you go gather your dinner from the wild or do you let others do it for you? Do you grow your own fruits and veggies or do you let others do it for you? Heck most of you probablly eat out or go get fast food rather then cook, and you want to complain about me buying 6 to 10 levels on a toon in a game most people barely even give a rats ass about anymore? Get a life, when I get out there and purchase my way into the president of the USA's chair, then you can whine about how I am ruining your life. When I buy out your local bars and take your favorite beer off tap, then you can complain about how I am unfair. When I go out and by a new Porche and a pimp suit and start picking up your women, then you can say I have an unfair advantage. |
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Why bother playing at all? You need to read my previous post for that answer. But the long answer is... I love playing games. A lot of my friends play MMORPG's, I have played damn near every MMORPG that has hit the market, short of a few. I used to have tons of time to play them, and it use to be I would be among the top players as far as levels and such because I had that time. These days I have weeks, sometimes a month or two in a row where I am unable to play? So does that mean I shouldn't be able to play? Does that mean because I got older and my life got busier, that I don't deserve to play these games? Why shouldn't I be able to play with groups that I have grouped with since the dawn of MMORPG's? I have friends that play more current games now that I had met in Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, from various beta testings. Should I have to cut those ties, because I lack time? In EQ I had a static group, we played every Tuesday, Friday, Saturday on a set schedule. My work schedule changed makeing it were I could not maintain that same schedule. It ruined the game for me, loseing my group of friends. I quit playing. In EQ2 I found a good static group, well my schedule changed and for every month I would miss one day a week of the set schedule, the eventually started to pass me by way to much <this is before the mentor patch was implemented> This made me feel like soon my static group was going to move on with out me, and the game would lose some of it's luster. I mentioned it, and one of the group said I should use a leveling service gain about 2 levels on the rest of the group, and I would be good for a couple more months. I talked to a couple of services, and found gaining 6 levels would take about 3 days, and cost me a bit of cash. I did it. I continued to play with that group for about 6 more months. One member lost his job, and quit playing, another fried his system and could not afford to fix it at the time. So at that point the game was pretty much over for me. These games are about adventure, about fun and excitment, these games are meant to be shared with your friends, but rarely can a group of friends hang tight together and level together at the same speeds. So I think a PL service is a great system for helping people like me keep up with other player friends. In buying those 6 levels do you think I ruined the game or the economy for anyone elses? Do you really think I missed out on a whole lot of the game by not playing those 6 levels? In another game, for the same reasons, I bought like 10 levels, but they were low levels, so I am sure I never missed anything. As anything in this world, there are ways to abuse everything, and there are always people that will abuse it. I think this is just another one of those things. Why do I bother playing these games? Because I find them fun, I meet a lot of like minded people, I think it is great breakthrough in gameing, and I have been there since damn near the begining, and beta tested, and helped developers squash bugs and problems in a large percentage of these games. Why do I play these games.....Because I can! Personally, I don't really care you play it however you want, it's your prerogative. But don't be suprised if someday your access to your account has been deleted because of you exercising your choice, that is the prerogative of the game manufacturer/Host. This goes for people who use bots as well. Most people don't have a problem with farmers, unless they are selling what they have for real money. If this is the case, their accounts will eventually be yanked to...*heavy sigh*. 
Whats to say I'm not at a hotel playing, or at a friends house? |
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I think those that consider a power leveling service as cheating should have been around about 10 years ago, back in the day when Meridian59 and UO were around. People would hack the game so that your spells could not hurt them, while their spells would kill you in one hit. They had PKers that would hunt noobs in all the little noob areas, while useing cheats, just to get the response from them. These were cheaters. These are the people that make games so hard to play, that you really don't want to. When you bust your but for 4 months straight to stay one of the highest level players on your server and some idiot that downloaded a program comes in with his level one master spell caster and kills you in one hit. Then you can cry about cheating. Because I paid someone else a few bucks to gain me 6 levels, that is not cheating, the is tired of the level 20 to 30 grind your butt off lag fest that developers call "extending a games life". |
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Trust me. You can't compete. |
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Then why bother playing at all ???  Why bother playing at all? You need to read my previous post for that answer. But the long answer is... I love playing games. A lot of my friends play MMORPG's, I have played damn near every MMORPG that has hit the market, short of a few. I used to have tons of time to play them, and it use to be I would be among the top players as far as levels and such because I had that time. These days I have weeks, sometimes a month or two in a row where I am unable to play? So does that mean I shouldn't be able to play? Does that mean because I got older and my life got busier, that I don't deserve to play these games? Why shouldn't I be able to play with groups that I have grouped with since the dawn of MMORPG's? I have friends that play more current games now that I had met in Meridian59, Ultima Online, Everquest, from various beta testings. Should I have to cut those ties, because I lack time? In EQ I had a static group, we played every Tuesday, Friday, Saturday on a set schedule. My work schedule changed makeing it were I could not maintain that same schedule. It ruined the game for me, loseing my group of friends. I quit playing. In EQ2 I found a good static group, well my schedule changed and for every month I would miss one day a week of the set schedule, the eventually started to pass me by way to much <this is before the mentor patch was implemented> This made me feel like soon my static group was going to move on with out me, and the game would lose some of it's luster. I mentioned it, and one of the group said I should use a leveling service gain about 2 levels on the rest of the group, and I would be good for a couple more months. I talked to a couple of services, and found gaining 6 levels would take about 3 days, and cost me a bit of cash. I did it. I continued to play with that group for about 6 more months. One member lost his job, and quit playing, another fried his system and could not afford to fix it at the time. So at that point the game was pretty much over for me. These games are about adventure, about fun and excitment, these games are meant to be shared with your friends, but rarely can a group of friends hang tight together and level together at the same speeds. So I think a PL service is a great system for helping people like me keep up with other player friends. In buying those 6 levels do you think I ruined the game or the economy for anyone elses? Do you really think I missed out on a whole lot of the game by not playing those 6 levels? In another game, for the same reasons, I bought like 10 levels, but they were low levels, so I am sure I never missed anything. As anything in this world, there are ways to abuse everything, and there are always people that will abuse it. I think this is just another one of those things. Why do I bother playing these games? Because I find them fun, I meet a lot of like minded people, I think it is great breakthrough in gameing, and I have been there since damn near the begining, and beta tested, and helped developers squash bugs and problems in a large percentage of these games. Why do I play these games.....Because I can! |
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So my boss is cheating, because he basically pays me and several other people to do his work for him. If you give me a high level toon in any current MMORPG, I could probablly make better use of him then a lot of people could with in two days. I'm sorry as diffrent as games try to be, they are the same, if you have ever played a spell casting warrior, you can do it again. In most cases that I have heard of, people useing PL service is useing it to gain several levels, not max out a toon. The people that you see maxxing out toons, or buying maxed out toons, are usually botters, buying a high level cleric to bot heal the classes they would rather play. Farmers that buy a high level account just to farm stuff for their lower level accounts. Most farmers, and botters...well guess what, the in game money you see all over ebay, that's them. To me those people pose a risk of ruining agame, while I have yet to see it happen, other then bust up the economy a little. The people that chose to gain a couple quick levels to keep up with their friends while they take a week off from playing the game, are not the people I would want to get rid of. Those are the people that are usually interested in playing the game for the right reasons, to group with their friends. They are not there to compete, they are not there to ruin your game. In fact I bet you, you have played with tons of people that have cheated in one way or another and it never even touched your game play. Hell I bought money from a certain company the sells in game money. They asked me to meet them somewhere to pick it up. I thought, I wonder how many people use this service. I stuck around on and off for a couple days, all in all he did business with 38 people in two days time. And thats just in the few hours I watched him. ooops, think I just opened a whole new can of worms.... |
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If my friend can put in 30 hours a week, while I can only play 15, he is going to level a lot faster then I will. So why shouldn't I be able to pay someone to help me keep up. I don't play the game to compete with you or anyone else. I am playing the game to play with some friends that play. I have friends all over the world I like to play games with, but I do not have the time to keep up with them. So if I choose to play with them, I have to either ignore my real life to do so, or pay someone to help me maintain their levels. Where is the harm? I am playing the game to play with them, not really anyone else, although I have hooked up with a lot of other cool people while playing, it is not my direct reason for playing. An MMO is not a competition, but a way to share a fantasy world with others. |
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I agree while buying a maxed out toon is not good for anyone, only because then the noob at level 60 can't play for beans and gets us all killed. I do think useing a service for a few levels does not hurt anyone. |
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Yes.
Look at you local area, they need a road built, usually one company will bid on it, then subcontract it to another comapny, or a building built, or cleaning up, etc... |
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Some of you claim it is cheating, claim it is an unfair advantage, or that someone useing a PL service doesn't know how to play. Or doesn't deserve to play if they need a PL service to build their toon. I used a PL service in two diffrent games. One to catch up to some friends that invited me over to try thier game. I paid for 10 levels. of the 60 levels I went through. I knew my class, in fact 99% of the groups I had ever been in loved having me in the group because I did know how to play my class very well. Not playing those 10 levels did not hurt my play style at all. Only gave me a chance to play with my friends. An unfair advantage? Are we playing poker? Monopoloy? I don't understand how my toon catching your toon even effects you other then giving you that many more people to group up with. If the game were PvP which at the moment few are PvP I could see it as giving me an advantage. If there were items that were only 1 per server or something and the first person to level gets it, I can see it as cheating, but that isn't how these games work. If I actually work for a living and have a family, why should I not be able to play? Because I have a life I am not allowed to play your game? That is the most moronic thing I have ever heard. These games are made for fun, when I get home from work, I like to log into my game, hook up with joe blow on the east coast, jane doe over their in austrlia, and billy bob from japan and go slay a dragon. Will those people all get to play more hours then me, who does it really hurt if I pay someone a few bucks to help me catch up to my group if I had a bad week. I think the ones with the unfair advantage our the ones sitting at home with 20 hours a day to play the game. Are they actually a benifiet to society, just because they have no life and can level to the max in a month means they are a better gamer then me? No usually it means, they needs to get off their couch potato butt, get a job, take a shower, and maybe they will find some chick to actually take an interest in them and allow them to get a real life. I would not ever trade my real life for a virtual one, but I love to take a couple hours here and there to dive into a fantasy world, and slay a few baddies. If you feel that I am cheating because I might buy a few levels, then what about guys in EQ2 that buy in game money off the internet and buy all the collection quest to gain 30 levels in a mattere of minutes? If you feel that I am cheating, then maybe you need to start a support group. If you feel that I am cheating then maybe you should start a class action lawsuit. If you feel that I am cheating maybe you should build your own game and fix the problem. If you think I am cheating then maybe you should just stop playing in protest...I am sure the game community will listen..ok, maybe not. Last but not least, if you think I am cheating, well then that's too bad, life is not fair! Fear me for I am Ninja! |
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