Originally posted by thekid1

I read explore this explore that.

I'm level 28 and am doing a level appropriate area. I try to explore and found two events. Which consisted of yet another escort mission and a defend the town mission. I've seen them and other events loop now for dozens of times.

I also found a vendor under water which sold the same crap as other vendors. And I found another event underwater which consisted of beating him in a fight. That's it after several hours in one area and killing the same creatures over and over and over and over. Good thing the combat is fun but it's getting to me, since I'm not getting any new weapons skills anymore.

I'm hitting a wall here. I look everywhere but I know I will not find loot in structures and such and the events I find are either escort, kill a boss or defend a town. I don't really care when I find a "hidden" cave or structures since there never is anything to find there anyway. I don't consider finding a hidden cave in itself discovering..this is not 1992. I played Fallout NV and Skyrim.

Like I said I'm getting close to hitting a wall and slowly am less happy to log in, I need some positive words and reassurance there really is stuff to discover (please tell me WHAT) and events will get better..

I have not really an interest in pvp (right now) and stopepd crafting because it drained all my silver.

 

Exploring on this game is interesting. It comes down to opening a map, looking at the pre-determined points, and "exploring" them. It basically traded in a kill monster type grind, for a run around and look at these points we put on the map grind. 

It was fun at first, but it gets just as old as killing mobs, and faster =/

That's a clever take on the game. You're doing it wrong. Haha.

"OK guys, I know you don't like WoW because its generic and we've been doing it for a long time, but in reality you are probably just doing it wrong. What you need to do is never accept a single quest, explore every single inch of the map, and kill every mob you come accross ad nauseum."

The only thing GW2 did differently than WoW was to make exploration the grind rather than killing. I'd prefer to explore on my own rather than trying to find points on a map.

But apparently I just lack the brain power to comprehend how awesome GW2 is, and I guess I played all the way to lvl 80 / exotic gear / half way to legendary wrong.

Originally posted by Lordsword

Originally posted by Jimmydean
Or you could, you know, look at other sites besides Arena Nets GW2 site.   Amazon, Gamestop, pretty much any retailer BESIDES Arena Net are full in stock. 

And besides Best Buy, apparently.

Maybe your brick n mortar store is sold out. If you asked an associate they probably wouldn't even know what GW2 is. 

Or you could, you know, look at other sites besides Arena Nets GW2 site.   Amazon, Gamestop, pretty much any retailer BESIDES Arena Net are full in stock. 

Checked on BB, only the digital version is "sold out".

I'd much rather pay $15 / mo for a game like Rift where the developers have a clue what they are doing, constant game updates, and excellent account/customer support. Arena net skimped on all of the above and STILL have a very constricting cash shop.  30 shared bank slots? really?

Know what else those old games have in common? They weren't MMORPGs.   MMORPGs have always been about character progression, starting as a lowly adventurer and working your way up. They even used to be about *gasp* playing with others!

All of the Single Player gamers that have invaded the genre have turned it into a shell of what it once was, so congratulations on that!

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by bloodaxes

I create games with a program when I'm bored and one game I was trying to do was going to have dynamic events throughout the game. I got many problems each different every time I play tested because sometimes it would skip something from x and sometimes from y, sometimes even work flawlesy it was very confusing and frustrating.

I'm sure it compares with ArenaNET's client/server infrastructure... ;-)

Based on GW2's launch, I'd say they could benefit from a copy of that book!

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Creslin321

Lower level zones don't just have lower level content, they have EASIER content...on purpose.

The content is made easier because...

1.  Players of that level don't have the skills/traits that high level people have.

2.  It just makes sense that the game should become more challenging as your move up in level.

So I mean, yeah, if you take your fully traited and skilled level 80 into a level 10 zone, it's going to be easier.  What else would you expect :)?  The content there is designed so that level 3's with only auto-attack unlocked can handle it.

Exactly this.  On top of that, his actual player skill would be a lot of better from all his playtime than when he just started.

Nitpicking.

I only asked what the point of it was. If it's going to be so easy it takes no effort at all, even if it is just because I am level 80, then whats the point of level scaling? 

Originally posted by Clocksimus

I am done replying to GW2 threads I think. I must have missed being hit by the hypnotoad that zapped people into this GW2 state of mind because, in defense they prove that what they saying is wrong but still continue to ignore fact that they proved their oppositions point.

It can't be easy and yet still hard.

You can't kill steal in GW2 so what is this point about preventing players from griefing lower levels?

The content is still blown though because it is easier anyways so again what is the point of this system?

You are rewarding higher lvl players in lower level zones in a system designed to prevent higher lvl players from camping lower level zones..... what?  Yes the system is partly deisgned to stop higher levels from griefing lower levels as they said that right?  If the content offered no rewards you'd think that would be a better method than giving them rewards.... but hey I'm sure this all makes sense to anyone  having a blast in GW2 so what other people think  is irrelevant.

GW2 is a great game. It's has its flaws like every game before it and hopefully they get fixed instead of being ignored untill everyone just gets tired of the game and quits.

Its pretty easy to see whats happening. People play the game, have a valid concern, back up valid concern with what they found in the game, and are belittled by people who have been reading developer hype rather than actually playing.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Jimmydean

 

Once again, nothing that I posted in my OP was an opinion besides the title. It was simply observations. The level scaling system doesn't work as was intended, this is all I was stating and I backed it up by actual observations rather than conjecture based on Arena Net Developers manifesto.

 

It works exactly as intended.   They have spelled it out, in black-and-white, how it works.   Just because YOU failed to comprehend what the developer said, doesn't mean it's not working.  Once again:

 

In PvE, a character's effective level and attributes are automatically reduced based on the enemy levels immediately around the player, and there can be numerous level scalings per area/zone. They retain access to all of their skills and equipment so the area is easier because of this, but should still be challenging to play.  [ED -- This means you can die at high level in a starter zone if you're a fool, unlike most MMOs where, even if the mobs aggroed on you, your damage mitigation alone makes it impossible.]

The benefits of this are:

• high level characters are prevented from killing enemies too easily and depriving low level characters of rewards;
• low level content doesn't become obsolete once a character reaches a higher level.

A scaled down character continues to receive experience and loot that is 'good' for their real level, but it is somewhat less efficient for obtaining experience and items than playing level-appropriate content.

 

Notice they said 'good' AND they tell you it's not nearly as efficient.   And it's true.   I have gone back to starter areas with friends.   The gear is not nearly (on average) as good but I have gotten a few level-appropriate greens (masterwork) items.  The XP is lower (about one-third-ish...).   The challenge is less, but if you're a fool you can get yourself killed.

 

It would be nice if you actually understood the goals and desigh of the system you're criticizing.   Because clearly you don't.   The goal is simple -- no face-roll XP farming, no farming elite drops by exploiting the system, BUT, you get some reward and challenge out of lower-level areas allowing you to, with one character, experience a very broad world.

 

 

Quote; [ED -- This means you can die at high level in a starter zone if you're a fool, unlike most MMOs where, even if the mobs aggroed on you, your damage mitigation alone makes it impossible.]

You have a very skewed idea of what "challenging" means.

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

So you guys can admit that its easier but not admit the system doesn't work? Even though the system was designed so that content would not be trivial?

 

Down-Leveling syetem: To make all content always require effort.

Down-Leveling system: Does not make all content always require effort.

Dwon-Level system - working as intended?

How?

 

See that tricky little word 'all?'    That's how I know you're not being honest.    Certainly not in light of ANet's stated goal and purpose which was to make the lower level zones remain relevant to players who have out-leveled them.

 

You can still be killed.   But you're much more powerful so it's more difficult for you to be killed.   Unike most MMOs where the starter area mobs can't even hurt you.

 

And it's not like they have never bothered to explain it...:

 

, BUT SHOULD STILL BE CHALLENGING TO PLAY.

 

Yea, this was my point all along.

A point you tried to make by using starter zones as your main grounding. Sorry, but can't take you seriously with that kind of information.

I actually moved on to a level 40 zone just to check out your theory. Do mobs have more HP than lower level zones? Yep. Do I still kill them 10x faster than I did at that level? Yep. Do I have any worries of dying no matter how much of something I pull? Nope. 

Does this defeat the entire purpose of level scaling? Yep. 

I'll let ya know as soon as I see a lvl 70+ item drop. Don't hold your breath.

Originally posted by MosesZD

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

So you guys can admit that its easier but not admit the system doesn't work? Even though the system was designed so that content would not be trivial?

 

Down-Leveling syetem: To make all content always require effort.

Down-Leveling system: Does not make all content always require effort.

Dwon-Level system - working as intended?

How?

 

See that tricky little word 'all?'    That's how I know you're not being honest.    Certainly not in light of ANet's stated goal and purpose which was to make the lower level zones remain relevant to players who have out-leveled them.

 

You can still be killed.   But you're much more powerful so it's more difficult for you to be killed.   Unike most MMOs where the starter area mobs can't even hurt you.

 

And it's not like they have never bothered to explain it...:

 

, BUT SHOULD STILL BE CHALLENGING TO PLAY.

 

Yea, this was my point all along.

Originally posted by Pouf

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by Pouf

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc. 

1. Ok events gives around 12k xp not 20k.... 
2. If you do an event loop the xp will drop to around 2k
3. Gear drops to your level even in lower zones and mobs are easier to kill  

I'm 80 my gf is 40 and I played with her last night, i get good xp still because mobs gives around 60% of what a level 78-80 mob gives, but die like 50-60% faster. I found a level 77 yellow axe 2 level 80 blues and 1 level 80 green.. so yea even level 40 mobs will drop end game stock if you are level 80

 

 

What events are you doing that give 12k xp? Must not be the ones in Orr.    And I never felt it necessary to do "event loops". 

 I do the chopper/giant/lissa/raia/acolyte and watever event loop in ORR and yes it's 12k xp

Ahh I leveled with exploration rather than event loops. Maybe constant repetition drops the xp you get, I don't really know. I'd take a screenshot right after event completion to prove it, but your post was entirely off topic to begin with.

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

So you guys can admit that its easier but not admit the system doesn't work? Even though the system was designed so that content would not be trivial?

 

Down-Leveling syetem: To make all content always require effort.

Down-Leveling system: Does not make all content always require effort.

Dwon-Level system - working as intended?

How?

^ this.

Originally posted by EvilestTwin

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc. 

I had a couple zones going back that gave me loot for my level on like a level 15 event.

You can get gear at your level wherever you go, but crafting supplies will stay unique to that level of the zone.

I gotta ask where you even went, because if you really thought that the lower level zones would be harder or as hard as the higher level ones... then you're clearly mistaken. They scaled combat up as you went, so after having that combat scaled back down, of course it will seem easier, not sure what you were expecting at all... But if you pull 20+ mobs in a normal game at a place thats even only 10 lvls below you, you will dodge almost every attack and they hit you for barely anything if they do, then you blow on them and they are gone. If scaling meant nothing, then lower level dungeons would be a joke as well, which is not the case. So honestly think about what you are writing, before your write it. Did you expect a challenge when you were in a lvl 30 and lower zone before, why would now be any different?

Strange, I don't remember being able to solo champion mobs or group events when I was running through there the first time. Or even coming close to it for that matter. Now I press Hundred Blades and everything is dead. One button. And I have cleared all of the starting zones and one 15-25 zone that I missed so far, and yet to see anything anywhere near my level drop. Just a bunch of 1-25 items.

Hundred Blades is a broken skill for PvE.   My level 12 Charr could easily solo DE's in the area with vets + mob packs just with Hundred Blades.   Champsions are a lot toughter because eqiupment and trait wise I'm still level 12, but  considering how much stronger you level 80 is just based on those factors, even scaled down, champions should not be a problem. 

Once again, nothing that I posted in my OP was an opinion besides the title. It was simply observations. The level scaling system doesn't work as was intended, this is all I was stating and I backed it up by actual observations rather than conjecture based on Arena Net Developers manifesto.

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You are seriously over exaggerating OP, mobs do drop loot that scales to your level and in WoW they wouldn't even be able to hit you while you could 1 hit them with your auto-attack.

Yes it's much easier, but not to the level that you are suggesting.

I wish you could log onto a character that is actually level 80.  I literally press 1 button, 1 button. It kills whatever I'm tagetting and hits in a cone aoe. And like I said, after a couple hours of going back in time to do level scaled content, I've yet to see anything anywhere near my level drop. 

Originally posted by Pouf

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc. 

1. Ok events gives around 12k xp not 20k.... 
2. If you do an event loop the xp will drop to around 2k
3. Gear drops to your level even in lower zones and mobs are easier to kill  

I'm 80 my gf is 40 and I played with her last night, i get good xp still because mobs gives around 60% of what a level 78-80 mob gives, but die like 50-60% faster. I found a level 77 yellow axe 2 level 80 blues and 1 level 80 green.. so yea even level 40 mobs will drop end game stock if you are level 80

 

 

What events are you doing that give 12k xp? Must not be the ones in Orr.    And I never felt it necessary to do "event loops". 

Originally posted by eggy08

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Jimmydean

Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc. 

I had a couple zones going back that gave me loot for my level on like a level 15 event.

You can get gear at your level wherever you go, but crafting supplies will stay unique to that level of the zone.

I gotta ask where you even went, because if you really thought that the lower level zones would be harder or as hard as the higher level ones... then you're clearly mistaken. They scaled combat up as you went, so after having that combat scaled back down, of course it will seem easier, not sure what you were expecting at all... But if you pull 20+ mobs in a normal game at a place thats even only 10 lvls below you, you will dodge almost every attack and they hit you for barely anything if they do, then you blow on them and they are gone. If scaling meant nothing, then lower level dungeons would be a joke as well, which is not the case. So honestly think about what you are writing, before your write it. Did you expect a challenge when you were in a lvl 30 and lower zone before, why would now be any different?

Strange, I don't remember being able to solo champion mobs or group events when I was running through there the first time. Or even coming close to it for that matter. Now I press Hundred Blades and everything is dead. One button. And I have cleared all of the starting zones and one 15-25 zone that I missed so far, and yet to see anything anywhere near my level drop. Just a bunch of 1-25 items.

Ok so I recently hit level 80. I finished up my main story quest minus the dungeon boss at the end.

I enjoy exploration, so I decided I'd go back and explore all of the zones I missed on my way to 80. I figured with this amazing level scaling system, these zones would still provide challenges and I'd get to explore.

I was half right. You can definitely go back and explore zones, same as you can in any other game. Where I was wrong was thinking it would be any challenge at all. I have yet to find a mob, Veteran, Champion, Group Event, or otherwise that isn't absolutely demolished by Hundred Blades even though I am scaled to their level. I literally feel like a level 85 running around in the lvl 10 zones in World of Warcraft demolishing everything in my path. 

So I ask, what's the point of level scaling?  Events give about 2k xp, compared to 18-20k at my real level. Items that drop are based on the zones level, not yours. 

The only events that I know of to have scalable loot are the later on dragon meta events - The Shatterer, etc.