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All Posts by Jimmydean

All Posts by Jimmydean

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1154 posts found
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Mardukk
The problem is that there are very few other options other than the forced questing bunch. Old school mmos and darkfall and Eve...thats it. Almost every other mmo is forcing you down a linear quest path so they can tell you a story regardless if you want to hearbit or not. They make you do the content they want you to do when they want you to do it. Im suprised so many people want to play in an mmo down a linear path. Quests are fine as optional side content.

Stories are hard to tell in less they are linear. You could pick up a book and read a few middle chapters, then some at the beginning, and then the last page, but it wouldn't be what the author intended. You could however do some sidequests while completing the main quest or quests.

On top of that, I wouldn't call any of this game, or game like it "forcing" you to quest. Early DAoC and many similar games you had to grind mobs, craft, group in dungeons, and so on. You don't have to quest to gain XP. There are items you may need through questing however, and that to me seems like a good point to follow the story.

MMORPGs were never about telling a story. They were about creating your own. If I wanted to read a book or watch a movie, I would just do that. I don't need a game to read to me like some book on tape. 

I can't think of very many MMO's past or present that have zero story.  There is still a thread pulling you along the big difference being how strongly the pull is.  Most the ones that don't have story are more world building games than MMORPG's.  The key being the RPG part.  

Of course there will be a story. It just shouldn't be shoved down your throat from the time you log in until the time you're done with the game. 

MMORPGs should be worlds where you are insignificant until you do something otherwise. A very popular quote describes what I, and many others, have been saying for a while.

 

Everquest:  "You're in our world now".    Their world. Their story. How you interact with it should be up to you. Modern day MMORPGs are just single player games with Co-Op options. 

Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by TangentPoint

500k+ is a very healthy population, for any MMO... especially P2P.

However, I still see people mis-stating something that should be cleared up and understood when talking numbers. The "over 1.8 million" is how many accounts they have, including inactive ones. I really hate it when companies use those kinds of numbers because it always sends out the wrong message (and is surely intended to do just that). While certainly truthful, it's also misleading, as evidenced by people thinking they mean over 1.8 million active players.


All I'm saying is... 

1. Don't confuse "registered accounts" (1.8 mil+) with "active accounts" (~600k). They're two different numbers.

2. ~600k active players is an awesome number, and the game will easily go for years on that.

 

Exactly. I really hate when the community gets fooled into this PR talk. It's as if their favorite MMO corporation simply couldn't do something that every respectable corporation does. We must be able to see through the bullcrap.

And at the same time, 500k + people logging in every day means there are significantly more subs than that. With that amount of active users on a daily basis, there could very well be 1.8 million paying accounts.

Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Mardukk
The problem is that there are very few other options other than the forced questing bunch. Old school mmos and darkfall and Eve...thats it. Almost every other mmo is forcing you down a linear quest path so they can tell you a story regardless if you want to hearbit or not. They make you do the content they want you to do when they want you to do it. Im suprised so many people want to play in an mmo down a linear path. Quests are fine as optional side content.

Stories are hard to tell in less they are linear. You could pick up a book and read a few middle chapters, then some at the beginning, and then the last page, but it wouldn't be what the author intended. You could however do some sidequests while completing the main quest or quests.

On top of that, I wouldn't call any of this game, or game like it "forcing" you to quest. Early DAoC and many similar games you had to grind mobs, craft, group in dungeons, and so on. You don't have to quest to gain XP. There are items you may need through questing however, and that to me seems like a good point to follow the story.

MMORPGs were never about telling a story. They were about creating your own. If I wanted to read a book or watch a movie, I would just do that. I don't need a game to read to me like some book on tape. 

It's funny, because everything you guys are saying you love about this game is because of it's single player aspects and beating down on it's MMORPG parts. Why don't you just play, you know, single player games?
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Jimmydean
These quests are terrible. Story and Lore can exist in a fantasy world without being shoved down your throat every second you are playing. Single Player games? Sure, they exist because of this. In an MMORPG, there is no place.

Quests are how players interact with the world and get immersed in stories..  GW2 tried to do it a different way, with Coop quests (dynamic content) but in essince it was still quests, and even there people came to the conclusion that oldfashioned quests where still more immersive then Coop quests with some loose story components..

 

Please explain how you could immerse people into story and lore withotu quests?

 

In my opinion an MMO RPG is about playing a role in a world (hench RolePlaying Game) and  Quests are still the only mechanic fot to do so...

 

 

In actual MMORPGs,

Stopped reading there, what does this even mean? Actual MMORPG's?

Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.       Notice Massively and Multiplayer - Not Minuscule and not single player. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Jimmydean
These quests are terrible. Story and Lore can exist in a fantasy world without being shoved down your throat every second you are playing. Single Player games? Sure, they exist because of this. In an MMORPG, there is no place.

Quests are how players interact with the world and get immersed in stories..  GW2 tried to do it a different way, with Coop quests (dynamic content) but in essince it was still quests, and even there people came to the conclusion that oldfashioned quests where still more immersive then Coop quests with some loose story components..

 

Please explain how you could immerse people into story and lore withotu quests?

 

In my opinion an MMO RPG is about playing a role in a world (hench RolePlaying Game) and  Quests are still the only mechanic fot to do so...

 

 

In actual MMORPGs, the story existed in the background. You became intertwined with the story as you created your own. You weren't the "hero". You were a piece of garbage until you proved otherwise. Want to become a hero in a game? Do something extraordinary. And by that I don't mean gather 4 apples and run to Jimbob Questgiver. 

You needed to interact with others. You needed to explore the world, because you didn't have quests pigeonholing you into specific content. 

It's really sad that newer players will never experience this, but maybe they don't want to. 

Maybe quest spamming is the way of the future, and it's what people want now days. With the way people hop from game to game lately though, i'm thinking more of the same isn't going to do the trick.

The biggest problem is that the MMORPG audience majority no longer consists of MMORPG players. Ironically, the majority of MMORPG players are just single player gamers who somehow got confused and ended up here. 

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Take a look towards the Dark Souls franchise for how questing can exist in a game, and not be shoved down your throat. And that's a single player game even! You know you are working towards a goal, but you aren't forced to go about that goal in a certain way and go from quest giver to quest giver. You make your own story on the way.

That's great. When have you been forced to work toward a goal so far in ESO in one certain way? You can pretty much tackle all around you in any order you want, take on which quests you want, etc.. It's not your typical hub where you have to work your way through quest chains to be able to move to the next area of quests. While there are quest chains, they're not needed to move on to other places or activities, none that I've seen anyway.

That's the problem. You aren't working towards a goal in ESO. You are doing meaningless tasks for meaningless NPCs. Does it really matter if this person has the 3 apples he needs to make his apple pie? No, not in the slightest. 

Originally posted by otacu

Wellcome to your average themepark mmorpg.

 

Once you are done with your quests you wait for the next mmorpg themepark :D

Yep, and then wonder why games go from 2 million to 100k subscribers within a few months. Can't even imagine!

Take a look towards the Dark Souls franchise for how questing can exist in a game, and not be shoved down your throat. And that's a single player game even! You know you are working towards a goal, but you aren't forced to go about that goal in a certain way and go from quest giver to quest giver. You make your own story on the way.

This lets you focus on the puzzles, combat, and exploration within the game rather than follow the arrow.

Originally posted by artemisentr4
Originally posted by cylon8
so a kill ten rats quest is good because it's tied to voice acted lore? I found my self basically just clicking through the lore quests on the starter island then incredibly frustrated when I actually payed attention to the mainland quests which had broken objectives. this would be great if it were more sandbox but as a noticeably small themepark it becomes stale very fast which is a shame cause the world is rendered beautifully

I still haven't found that "kill ten rats" quest. Where is it?

Must be too hard for you, no arrow pointing the way and what not.

These quests are terrible. Story and Lore can exist in a fantasy world without being shoved down your throat every second you are playing. Single Player games? Sure, they exist because of this. In an MMORPG, there is no place.
Originally posted by zzax
Originally posted by Jimmydean
Landmark will be the big hit of 2014, it's the only game actually doing something "new". The freedom that they have to innovate with something like this is immense. EQ will once again re-define the genre.

And Titan will be Landmarks clone.

 

//sorry for offtopic!

Haha I'm pretty sure everyone had the exact same thing in mind when Titan was pulled almost immediately after EQ Next was leaked.

FFXIV is my game of choice for right now, has been for a few years. I really enjoyed the 1.23 patch before A Realm Reborn so when they updated it to ARR it was a hard pill to swallow. I am beginning to accept it for what it is now though, it's basically a typical MMORPG with Dungeons, Raiding, Gear Grind, and spammy combat. It does ok with what it has though, and has a very ambitious team. Constant updates keep me hopeful for the future.

I'm kind of surprised at how many people still play this game to be honest. I am hooked because I love the universe and style / graphics.

I think it's severely lacking in the raiding aspect ( 8 mans just feel like a dungeon ). Hopefully in the not too far off future we get 24 man raids for free companies. I also hope they stop making Relic upgrades just require the currency of the patch, as it makes them feel pretty cheap.

Landmark will be the big hit of 2014, it's the only game actually doing something "new". The freedom that they have to innovate with something like this is immense. EQ will once again re-define the genre.
Do people think that gaming companies pour millions of dollars into these games for charity? Lol, of course they need to make money. It's a business, one they invested a great deal of money into. This is a great deal.
Originally posted by Quirhid

I think you are sightly misinterpreting the success off Dark Souls. Dark Souls is a hard game first and foremost. It provides a good challenge and a good adventure. Hardcore MMORPGs on the other hand simply demand attendance not skill: It takes ages to do anything, but it is rarely anything hard.

It doesn't have to be that way. EQ for instance.  Ever try to split Triplets in NTOV? Pull the wings in Vex Thal? Pull the Coirnav Event in PoWater? Etc...

Granted my scope is limited to the class I played (Monk), I'm sure Warriors and Enchanters and Clerics all had their versions of difficulty.

Every single pull got my heart beating because I knew if I messed up my job it would make a direct impact on the rest of the raid.

Sometimes difficulty can also be about management, planning, and strategy. Hardcore guilds in EQ ran like well oiled machines. 72 player raids were set to go at exactly the start time, people listened to directions and performed their roles flawlessly. It was very easy to tell which guilds had the better players, whether it be class mechanics or overall raid / social skills.

Question in the title.

I honestly think it may be time. The usual argument against these types of MMORPGs is that there are far more casual players than hardcores, which is absolutely correct. However, I think it's time to look at the market share. Every other month it seems another huge MMO with the exact same premise but set in a different world is being released.

Recent/Near Future releases include: FFXIV: ARR, TESO, Wildstar, and the WoW Expansion.

What do these all have in common? They are all built to draw in the casual crowd over all else. That's 4 different "new" games pulling all on the same pool of players, and that's not even considering the current distribution of that player set within games such as LOTRO, GW2,  SWTOR, and so on.

On the contrast, a Hardcore MMORPG would be only competing with near ancient games. What was the last truly difficult MMORPG we got, Eve? EQ Players are a committed bunch, but even that game is beginning to jump the shark hoping to get a share of the casual market - a market spread so thin it's no wonder they can't sustain.

With the recent release and reception of Dark Souls 2 I think people are coming around to wanting their games to be engaging, difficult, and thought provoking.

This type of game would absolutely exclude some players. I won't deny it, if you want the entire game to be soloable and to attain the absolutely best gear in a raid finder group - this type of game probably wouldn't fit your playstyle. That's ok. Not every game has to cater to every type of player.

So I guess the real question is : is the casual market so much bigger that it can sustain the 100s of MMORPGs that keep pulling at the same player pool? Or is it maybe time for a Hardcore MMORPG to pull from the significantly smaller pool of players that aren't spread anywhere near as thin?

Originally posted by Xstatic912
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Will see how it goes.

Blizzard ditched 40 man raids for a reason.


Highly doubt the trend of half the raid doing all the work and the other half being dead weight will change though.

 

Dont worry, there taking a similar path to blizz.  Next up, person will start ditching becuase the see the best gear is from 40man raid which the masses will start to feel left out then start to jump ship.. The devs will make a solution of smaller raid sizes and say the game needed the adjustment as persons, didn't have the commitment that 40man raid demanded..

How i long for the day when the best gear doesn't come from raid, sure you can still keep raids in for person who like that content but gating the best of the best to one feature is just sooo outdated.. Why cant there be a best of the best solo or 5man group content that takes 2weeks to complete (a stage each day) and at the end you get a armor or weap choice that just the same rarity as raiding provides (not less, not more powerful).. sure you can still do raid as it would probably be the faster way to gear up.

Reward the person who raid the faster gearing process.. 

I think people are forgetting why we even get gear in the first place.  Gear is obtained in order to progress your characters stats to the point where they can take on the next highest level difficulty of content. If you aren't raiding, then you don't need raid gear.

I would bet all the tea in china that the next truly successful MMORPG (2 million + Subs maintained) will launch with approximately 0 instances, and maintain this level of instanced dungeons.

 

Instances are a lazy developers crutch.

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