Why the hell would someone need a book to create a successful guild?  Anyone with a half a brain can create a successful guild.

Edit: NVM there are very few players who even have half a brain.  Most are just sheep incapable of an original thought.

Originally posted by arcdevil

Originally posted by GTwander

Originally posted by doctormozg

Yes i paid around 2-3k$ for f2p games.

Great.

Expect to be quoted by all the haters as the prime example of how much it costs to play these things. They love toting a single case of being spendthrift as a widespread panic.

there are thousands of "single cases" out there fyi.

there are plenty of news about people spending a few grands in F2P games

 

the saddest part is that news always name the top spenders, they seem to forget that if the top 1 guy spent 4k, the other 49 in the top 50 spent between 1k and 3k....

 

so yeah, keep your "its more rare than white rhinos" lies to yourself

Top spenders on a F2P are usually closer to 40k than 4k.  Perfect World is a great example of P2W.  There are quite a few people who will openly admit they have spent over 30k on the game. 

edit: The top 50 are all over 10k spent.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Mr.Lumps

Originally posted by ironhelix

This patch will bring more people back to the game than it will drive off. The ones that it drives off are people like you, so no one cares. Goodbye.

they will gain the instant gratification retards and will lose some of thier most dedicated customers.  Clearly you are a genious.

lol.......... it will likely start bringing back some of the PvP'rs considering the PvP'rs left when the game revolved around ganking newbs that presented no challenge. I know I did and many long time PvP clans did. PvP is about competition not camping players that have no chance at fighting back.

 At launch things were great (Balance wise) because everyone was on the same footing. Advantage was minimal, which made the whole thing fun. Later the toon "level" gave such an advantage that it became fairly boring. 

 

But this is just from a DFO vet :) 

 

In any case, yes this is a step towards bringing new players to the game and old players back. It seems it's inadvertently also weeding out the less desirables which is just another big plus lol. 

So you like games that just give instant max level or a week to max level?  So basically someone who spends an hour a day should be able to keep up with someone who spends 10 hours a day by your logic? 

I agree with the OP completely.  This is the problem that I see with most games.  They turn around after a while and destroy the effort that was put into the game by their original players to try to cater to new people starting out.  By the failed logic of many of these gaming companies and the "I want to start a game and be able to compete with everyone instantly" mentality of this new age of gamer I have also had a hard time keeping interest in games.  Its a slap in the face to everyone who "earned their stripes" so to speak by working their way  to the top.  If you put in the effort to level and farm the epic gear you deserve to be on top.  2 random nublets who have been playing a game for a week should not be able to take down any 1 person who has been playing the game for a year. 

I personally hate grinding but at the same time I am competitive and want to be the best.  I make the time to put in more effort than the average person so I can be a higher level and better geared than them.  Others might put in more than I do but thats where I need to be more skilled than them to win.  I hate P2W games and I hate instant gratification games.  I'm a masochist.  I get enjoyment out of torturing myself grinding even though I hate it so I can take on 5 people if I want to.  I dont believe in killing newbs but I love killing 20 noobs at the same time.  I also love killing newb killers and watch them rage wanting to know why I attack them just for killing people half their level.  I do this in every game I have ever played until they make it an instant gratification game then I just quit.  I will never accept the instant gratification model that gives everything to someone so they can compete with those that have been playing for a year immediately when they start.

@OP Sadly your best chance of finding a game which doesnt ram a baseball bat up your ass and violate you a year after you start to cater to the instant gratification crowd is to look for a low budget cheaply ran game.  You will get poor customer service but at the same time they will not change the game a year down the road because they are too cheap to pay for upgrades and changes.  You will also end up with a low population because of the poorly ran game but those are the only games that tend not to screw their original players and that is only because they are too damn cheap to screw you.

Originally posted by kaiser3282

TLDR version: all of your assumptions about "pay 2 win" are wrong and outdated, there is still a lot involved in "winning" besides spending $. It may have just required some $ to be the best in past games, but that is no longer the norm for newer F2Ps. Stop spreading ignorant and outdated BS. 

You, just like the majority of anti-F2P people on here, are still continuing to live in the past and spreading outdated and incorrect stereotypes. It's obvious you've never played an F2P or at least not one thats released in the past 2 years or so. Ive played dozens of F2P games in that time, and NONE of them are Pay 2 Win the way you try to describe them as far as doing shit like buying max level, or buying the best gear. No recent Cash Shops offer stuff like that, what they offer instead is the chance to do things like lessen the grind (though you still DO have to grind, you are not simply buying levels with cash, youve still got to play the game, you just level slightly faster), or enhancers/upgraders for equipment that have a betetr chance of succeeding, or do things like prevent your gear from breaking upon failure. Most of the time the items in the cash shops are simply slightly better versions of what is found in game, nothing even remotely close to buying level cap and max gear.

 

Never tried Perfect World have you?  Try it out some time it is the purest definition of PAY 2 WIN.  When the game was released it took approx. 8 months til the first level 100 character.  Now a new player can start and reach 100 in a little over a week if they use the cash shop.  Gear used to take time and effort for people to farm the best gear in game.  Now all the best gear can be purchased in the cash shop by buying $1 gambling packs with a 98% chance of crap and 2% chance of getting one of 20-30 random profitable items.  They released an expansion last year adding in new end game equipment where you would have to farm a new instance to upgrade the existing end game gear to the new high end equipment.  A month later they released the items needed to reforge equipment into end game gear into these cash shop gambling packs. 

I could go on and on and give examples of many other so called F2P games which use a pure Pay 2 Win model.  I have tried out close to 100 different F2P games over the years and have found very few which didnt use the Pay 2 Win model.  The ones that kept the overpowering items out of their cash shops always ended up being low budget games with few players and even less customer support. 

I have personally never found a true F2P game released in the last few years.  They are all P2W. 

On a side note...

I will never play a hybrid model ever.  If I am playing a subscription game I do not want any RMT involved in it.  Whats the point of paying a monthly subscription if people can still buy their way to power though RMT. 

I havent found a single P2P that can keep my attention for long because they are all too easy.  Spend a few weeks to reach max level  Then you spend a few months tops to gear out.  After that what is there to do?  None of them give an incentive to put anymore effort into the game. 

F2P I hate because of the P2W style they all seem to follow.  They usually start off the first 6 months keeping overpowering items out of their cash shop.  Then they all slowly start adding in items which you will need to compete because they can not be obtained any other way than cash shop or not without spending some overly insane amount of time. 

I know there are very few people at least in the western "I want everything now and dont want to work for it" market that will disagree with me on this but this is the kind of game that I would like to see...

I would like a P2P with no game influencing items at all. (server transfers/basic fashion and other fluff are ok)  I would like the game play to be a hybrid of the typical P2P and F2P styles.  I want the content and updates of a P2P with the larger leveling curve of a F2P.  I want in game effort to mean something instead of 100 hours to max level.  (I'm talking where it would take a hardcore player a year to reach max)  There will be no buying your way to catch up.  Skill and effort will be the determining factors for who will be the top players.  Effort will mean something because max level will take an extended period of time to reach.  

I personally hate "grinding" but at the same time I would rather have to put in effort and have that effort mean something.  If I have more time to put in than someone else I deserve to be higher level and have better equips.  If I have less time than others I will just have to be much more skilled than them to make up for their level and gear advantage they might have.  

OK wall of text over.  Waiting for the rage of the new style gamer.  "give me now give me now" 

Originally posted by jezvin

I hate the last name idea.

when I play a MMO I like to be known as jezvin, not (random name) jezvin or (other random name) jezvin

It dosn't matter if I'm a warrior or a elementalist a human or somthing else I like to go by Jezvin in MMOs.

 

I think from now on every game that I decide to play the first thing I am going to do is log in the second a server opens and create a character called "Jezvin" first.  Then i wont have to play with this guy since he will move to a different server.  The funniest part will probably be his rants on the game's forum how someone stole his name.

Yes I am an evil b@stard like that.

Actually gpotato is known for giving preferential treatment to its mods.  Handing out end game items to mods within the first few months of OB starts.  Rules are enforced based on amount of cash shop purchases or bribing GMs.  You will never find an "honest" ran gpotato game because the entire company is crooked.  Just go look up Gala-Net on better business bureau they rate an F which is the lowest possible rating for completely horrible customer service. 

ha ha.   what do you expect?   this is Gpotato we are talking about.  it is the greediest most poorly run publisher in existence.  they will always find a way to screw over their players and ruin a potentially good game.  hell just look at their other games.  corum online has been running for almost 2 years now without updates or even a GM.  look at their forums.  people openly talking about duping items with no GM there to care.

while i agree this game is a joke it has nothing to do with its leveling speed.  the game has basically been discontinued for over a year now.  there is no GM support and no updates. 

if you have problems leveling to 50 on this game you need some serious help and should just quit all online games right now.  1-100 takes less than 1 day.  100-120 takes another day.  the experience rate is set to 6x or 8x i cant remember what i heard.  everything is pretty much given away for free. (including a lot of cash shop items) 

played WOW for a long time...painful world PVP which was the reason i quit.

havent played DF or EVE so no opinion on those 2.

Originally posted by Renoaku

Last But Not Least I love the USA, First Amedment Freedom OF Speech, I know I have been Threatend Before, and so have my other friends for giving out this info. Go Ahead, Try and Lawsuite me. Under the First Amedment you cant.

 

actually it IS illegal.  its called slander.  maybe you should think before saying something so stupid. 

oh and learn to spell dumbass.

Originally posted by Knightcry

I'm more inclined to believe he has them characters than a girlfriend.  BTW there is no way to get that many in a week, hes probably implying that his imaginary girlfriend has them and he had access.....wait that made no sense.  Ah here it is.....he bullshitting about it all.

i guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit.  go read again slower this time.  played for over a year.  i could have added in the characters of my IRL wife and that would have almost doubled the list.  we enjoy playing online games and so far she hasnt totally given up on PW.  she agrees that the game is a joke but is still not willing to give up on a game she has put so much time into yet.  while she wastes time doing dailies and flying 6 world quests a day and pretty much doing nothing else i am now jumping from game to game looking for something new that is worth playing.  it really drives me nuts when she starts whining trying to get me to go back on and play with her because she doesnt enjoy playing without me yet she still wastes so much time on there. 

totally agree.  unless you are someone who only cares about PVE stay far far away from this horrible excuse for a F2P game.  because this game is 100% gear driven it is not the game for anyone who wants to play free or even to spend $50-100 per month.  at the current prices it costs $51095 to fully upgrade a set of equipment.  most of the best equipment available in game can only be attained through cash shop gambling packs.  (pay $1 get a .001% chance at an OP item)  i know of at least 30 people just on the server i played on that have spent well over $20000 in a year for this game.

the other horrible part of this game is that leveling can also be bought through the cash shop.  pay $1000 level from 1-90 in a few days instead of an average of 4-6 months.

edit...i screwed up my calculations for equipment upgrading its only $30115.80 thats so damn cheap i think i should go log back in and pull out my credit card. 

personally i think this game is a HORRIBLE excuse of a f2p game.  the way the cash shop is implemented into the game its pretty much mandatory unless you are a pure PVE player.  if you are willing to shell out  $20k then sure you will have loads of fun.  f2p games usually have kept a limit on what can be gained by spending real money.  perfect world decided to allow the purchase of equipment which would take the average person 4-5 months to get just by swiping a credit card.  they also went so far as to allow selling of levels by spending real money.  that in itself destroys the dynamic of a game.  i would have quit this game after a week if my GF didnt get addicted to fashion.  finally she let me quit now i only log on about once a week to help her with something then log back off.  my rating for this game is 5/10. 

before all you PW nutriders try to defend your game by saying i must have only played it for a week or whatever this is a list of the characters i have. 

LC

level 97 archer

level 95 veno

level 87 cleric

level 85 blademaster

level 64 barb

level 59 mage

HL

92 veno

67 cleric

64 barb

52 blademaster

Originally posted by helliwan

Well i think we shouldn't bash G potato that much, some of the problems sometimes occur with the User terminal and its not on their ends and  about  customer services i don't think G potato is a bad Company, because i remember during the Space Cowboys crisis now (Air rivals&Ace on-line) G potato tried to renew the contracts with the game creator but they never listen and then they open it later with 2 different companies. We should try to give G-potato  a chance to prove itself . Well like the person said  about Joy max , the Silk-road on-line servers are always busy and its filled with  Bots, I'd rather play a game published by G-potato instead.

ha ha here you go this will prove that other people DONT agree that Gpotato is not a bad company.  horrible customer service and horrible game support.

gala-net=gpotato if you didnt know.

sanjose.bbb.org/Business-Report/Gala-Net-228032

Originally posted by dacofty

MMOs havent declined they have boomed, not so sure alot of them need to be made but the problem, or not the problem but the solution is the infilration of the F2P.  F2P will rise to the top, afterall know anything Asian that hasn't.  VG should be added to the decent MMO list.

F2P games are only good if they can learn to balance their cash shops.  When they make the game "free to play pay to win" then only the biggest spenders will stay.  I have seen people spend upwards of $40000 in a year just so they can claim to be the greatest player on a F2P game.  When spending money by itself can make a player who spends 1 hour a day ingame better than someone who no-lifes 12+ hours into a game there is no balance. 

Originally posted by bewbless

Even though gpotato does bad things with one of their games - mean Rappelz, they aren't that bad. They put alot effort in their new projects, so I'm filled with hope.

But I didn't want to discuss that.

 

I was browsing a little over the web, read about Aika, and my biggest concern at the moment is actual support for 1.000 players on battlefield.

Games much less detailed with mass pvps - to not look far: Shaiya - make it problematic to support 200 people in one place. And I'm not speaking only from my crapply PC experiance, but also from my friends with waaay better tech-specs then me.

 

Looks of Aika make me rather think that it's rubbish to say that 1k people can be in one place, fight and enjoy that experiance. Especially like mentioned in quotation Gala-Net (or gpotato w.e) might not provide good hardware support from their side. We will live we will see.

I personally hope that even with that small assortiment of classes - just 6 - the variety of builds possible will cover the hole. I do enjoy the idea of passive Pet.

i really do hope you are right.  i have played a few gpotato games and they have destroyed them all so far.  they are even leaving a game run with a cash shop open that they admit themselves has no GM to watch over it and will never have any more developer support. (Corum Online)

this game looks nice i just hope they dont destroy another promising game.

this is better business bureau rating of gala-net (gpotato)

sanjose.bbb.org/Business-Report/Gala-Net-228032

too bad its being published by gpotato.  they are the most crooked gaming company i have ever seen.

gpotato is by far the worst publishing company i have ever seen.  their business strategy is to put in a little effort as possible and sit back to collect the $$$ rolling in.  their servers crash a lot(sometimes for days at a time), lag constantly, and their customer service is horrible.

perfect world is the biggest joke of a game i have ever seen.  if you have any intention of getting involved in PVP you better be willing to shell out a minimum of $10k to be remotely competitive.

pk in this game is a joke.  it is totally dependent on how much money you are willing to spend on this game.  if you dont plan on spending a minimum of $10k dont bother playing.