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All Posts by CrazKanuk

All Posts by CrazKanuk

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995 posts found
Originally posted by Tyggs
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by WillowFuxxy

I think that is the first time I have ever read the words 'I would like to see more cut scenes'

wow...ok fair enough

LOL!!! 

 

Ok, ok, ok. I'll settle for something in-game. Don't be all like *bleep bleep, you've got a Grimoire, please go to bungie.net!"

 

Ooooooooo, here's an idea, Bungie! How about creating a companion app that allows me to read all my Grimoires on my tablet? You know, cuz let's be honest, I'm not going to stop playing so I can hop onto Bungie and read. That's ridiculous, I just killed some big massive monster and now, for some downtime I'm going to go do some light reading? Hell no! I'm gonna /dance! 

 

At least with games like Mass Effect, I had the in-game journal thingie. that would work too, but a companion app would be real nice. 

Umm.... there is a companion app. I have it installed on my android phone. It contans a Grimoire section.

Well why the hell didn't they tell me?!?!?! 

 

Thank you!! 

 

Wow, I've got to say, Bungie is EXTREMELY responsive when it comes to user feedback. 

Originally posted by Callidor
Originally posted by breadm1x

Trust me that they dont give u a refund on the "I can not make a house" base.

I am still amazed that u told us u have 5000 lp left.

I cant place my farmouse anywhere, but i dont have 5K LP left since i actualy Mined and lumbered the materials for it.

Why the hell did you even bought the game, if u wanna make houses go play Everquest Landmark.

 

Clearly I have offended you in some way, and for that I apologize. I hope that my response will not come off as brusque.

I had several problems with crashes and disconnects, which resulted in over 10 hours of queue time, add that into the 6 hours of downtime and then 3 more hours waiting for a customer support ticket.

And again, Im sorry if Ive upset you in some way that I was excited about the farming and crafting aspect of AA more than anything else the game had to offer.

They can probably see that I spent 20 hours worth of time not playing. As to whether or not they can see that I spent nearly all my play time trying to find a patch of land Im not sure.

All that aside, I hope you have a pleasant experience in AA.

In all honesty, land is one of the few things in the game that Trion might actually be able to monetize. If there's truly none left, they are in for a real rough ride. 

Originally posted by WillowFuxxy

I think that is the first time I have ever read the words 'I would like to see more cut scenes'

wow...ok fair enough

LOL!!! 

 

Ok, ok, ok. I'll settle for something in-game. Don't be all like *bleep bleep, you've got a Grimoire, please go to bungie.net!"

 

Ooooooooo, here's an idea, Bungie! How about creating a companion app that allows me to read all my Grimoires on my tablet? You know, cuz let's be honest, I'm not going to stop playing so I can hop onto Bungie and read. That's ridiculous, I just killed some big massive monster and now, for some downtime I'm going to go do some light reading? Hell no! I'm gonna /dance! 

 

At least with games like Mass Effect, I had the in-game journal thingie. that would work too, but a companion app would be real nice. 

Originally posted by deniter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by lobotaru
For clarification, I am referring specifically to end game vertical progression, not leveling.


For me, any MMO that has an "end game" is one I will avoid. Dailies, Raiding, and other "end game" activities have no appeal to me. If I reach the "End Game", I retire my character. So, in my case, any vertical progression beyond leveling is considered "destructive."

 

So many gerbils working their "progression wheels" that I lose sight of the real game :)

That, obviously, is just you because progression after max level is popular, and many spent many hours on it.

Dallies and raiding are old ancient game modes. May be MMOs should learn some new ones (like Greater Rifts in D3).

The point is .. "destructive" for you ... "fun and entertaining" for many others.

I'm with AlBQuirky on this. End game should be something optional if you have somehow managed to do everything else a game has to offer.

Game developers want make us to believe the real game is the end game. Content is easier and cheaper to deliver, if you can forget everything you did in last patch/expansion. 'Old content is old', these new players say. New generation of MMO players talk about 'questing' or 'leveling' as it was something they have to do before they can play; a sort of 'attunement' to the MMO. These games are popular, indeed, among the 'gerbils' ;)

I'm not one of them.

Wow! That's a pretty bold statement. Creating content is easier and cheaper than building "sandbox" features (I'm assuming)? I don't know about that. I've done some work with procedurally-generated content in the past and it's not rocket science. Building worlds, animating, modelling, all that sounds like super-serious work to me.

 

The nice thing about a sandbox is that I can basically build something so random that it will do nothing but prove I'm doing sandbox. For instance, I could just spawn random monsters. So we could have some big ass dragon walking through the starter area, just breathing fire on all the newbs. And the sandbox crowd would think that's eff'n awesome! I can build horizontal progression, so once someone actually defeats that dragon, maybe some guy that literally signed up 30 minutes ago gets some of the best gear in the game and, again, the sandbox crowd would love it. 

 

I don't think that there is, really, that much of a difference between the two, when it comes to work required. What is different is that progression, and I don't really think that sandbox games have figured out how to handle progression in such a way that it makes someone give a sh!t about the game. Whereas, themepark games have the progression part nailed down, but everything is just a little predictable (or a lot predictable).

Originally posted by Battlerock
No - it's very unfinished from a persistent online world aka mmorpg perspective, shh don't tell bungie we know they tried to make a mmorpg and mask it as a persistent online shooter. Mmorpgs are not just about gear and progression to which even that is poorly done but it's all there is. The world is pretty empty and boring. My take has nothing to do with the fact that pvp didn't meet my expectations, my take is based on what I think the strength of Destiny is, it's pve, and unfortunately it looks like the game was rushed to the shelves.

Tell me about "very unfinished"..... I don't see that. I think that, as the author mentions, we don't expect to get the full story when we buy into an MMORPG. I don't think that it's realistic to believe that we would. 

 

Myself, I do have an issue with the way that the story has been delivered so far. I'd like to see more cut scenes, back-story delivered in game, etc., etc. but I feel like the lore is pretty solid and pretty deep. 

 

Also, I would have loved to have seen a tighter community integration in the game. 

 

The next question that I'll be watching closely is how they're going to deal with community feedback. They have to know that their story is weak, so will they address that in future releases? Will they elaborate on the lore, instead of glazing over it? Will they give PvP some love? The difference with Destiny is that if they're planning on long-term success, they'll have to evolve the product or, if they don't, they'll run the risk of cutting that life very short. 

Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 

What gets me is this: Choices. You (and many other players) enjoy being cloud-bound. Great for you. What about us consumers that do not WANT this? Too bad. So sad. Suck it up. Adapt. Change with the times. This is NOT how businesses keep customers, "My way or the highway!" They are losing my business, albeit not even a tiny drop in the biggest ocean, and maybe some other players, too.

Steam is just a less intrusive form of DRM but make no mistake DRM is the reason publishers want services like this. What sucks is The Witcher 2 was sold without DRM and on GOG and was still hugely pirated so I can understand publishers and devs wanting to fight this in some way. Better something like Steam than always on crap or big publishers just abandoning the PC platform altogether.  

 

Of course that doesn't explain why MMO companies like Trion and Blizzard need their own launcher apps. Pretty sure that's just mainly about advertising. "Hey! wanna buy our other game while this one is loading?" It is kind of annoying but since Steam has lowered people's resistance to this kind of thing it probably is here to stay.

 

I actually like Steam. I get all the various DRM arguments and went through all the debacles with disc DRMs back in the day when I'd grow my hair out and march around with my Stop DRM signs. 

 

Fact of the matter is, though, DRM is needed and if I can put trust in a single site, a single source, like Steam, then so be it. It's a much better alternative to having 20, 30, 40 different DRMs running on my system, each with their own quirks like gaping backdoors into my computer. 

 

I'll take a single source of failure any day. 

 

That being said, same goes for these other "Launchers". I don't need 20 launchers on my system, with Admin access to my system. So I'll stick with Steam..... and Blizzard, lol. 

Originally posted by Ozmodan
Wish you would stop using that ridiculous "free-to-play" phrase.  It most certainly is NOT.  How about free to try, pay to play because if you don't buy cards, you are on the outside looking in.  I have yet to meet the truly free to play game.

You can buy card packs free using in-game currency. You can also buy the expansion using in-game currency. *pfft*

Originally posted by Chrisbox
It has one of the worst stories I've ever seen but the solid gameplay and decent replay value makes up for it.  That would be my review.  

If I had to sum it up in a sentence, this would probably be it. I don't think it's the worst story. I just don't think that they gave us enough to consume in the first chapter. They also left a lot to the Grimoire. So the jury is still out on that, for me, for the moment. Maybe the Grimoire will act as an interesting read in between content releases. I think that they do have some deep lore, they have a great story to tell. I just would have liked to have seen more of it delivered in the game itself. 

 

Other than that, it's got some of the best gameplay of anything I've played recently and it's just a hell of a lot of fun.

Originally posted by Tyggs
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by laserit

And that my friend, is the business model.

Sensible consumer would take the console business model any day when compared to the garbage the PC MMO industry is doing -

https://www.landmarkthegame.com/founders-pack

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

 

????

 

I'm not rushing to any kind of a judgment, The playtime-per-dollar will tell the tale.

 

What the heck does it have to do with PC-vs Console? A bad business model is a bad business model, and by bad I'm talking for the consumer.

So, a Console game charges to expand content beyond the orginal release, and that is seen as bad. PC MMOs charge a monthly fee and charge for expansions, and that is seen as the good part of the genre?

Just to re-iterate, there isn't a single AAA console game that releases these days without a "Season Pass". I think it's a completely acceptable way to monetize a console game. Why not? Shoot, if Destiny shoots me some PvE content, it'd probably be the first time any FPS did that. Usually it's $15 for like 5 new Multplayer maps, lol. If COD sent me a new campaign in my DLC I'd probably crap my pants. 

Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I found this review on Ars Technica, Destiny: It's a Small World, to be informative. It sounds like the game is trying to be a lot to a diverse crowd and not providing a sound experience for any of them. It also appears to be small and short for what they're charging and a constant stream of DLC flesh out the game sounds expensive.

One upvoted comment summarizes it like this, "It's an MMOFPS for adults who don't have 30-40hrs a week to pour into a game." Personally, I think both Firefall and Defiance, not to mention Planetside 2 which I haven't played, have a lot to offer and don't require a 30 hour plus commitment.

If it comes to PC a year or two from now and has a good Steam sale, then maybe. I think Borderlands 2 is more my speed though.

"Reviews" like that give me zero faith in the gaming community at large.

Total garbage!

Some of their points are flat out wrong and show they only skimmed the surface and rushed to print in order to get the page clicks.

For example, the class/sub-class variety is incredibly deep.

I've almost fully fleshed out my first sub class (Striker) and am only about 1/2 way through the other (Defender) and the differences in abilities and how they then relate to play style and solo versus group co-op support etc. is astounding.

Destiny has more MMO in it than any of these so called reviews are giving it credit for - because the reviewers aren't there yet in the game - respectable sites DELAY the release of their review on MMOs because it does take so much time to delve deep into them. 

Kudos to MMORPG.com for doing a staged, lengthy review process.

So it opens up after level 30 lol? No need to get all defensive. I just found the article informative.

Modern arpgs have procedurally generated maps and dungeons. They have ways to make repeating the content interesting. That is the single biggest key for an argp. Most arpgs take longer than 8 - 12 hours to complete and have more than 4 maps too. How is replay value going to work? Are they going to rely on continually selling DLC? The game already costs a premium.

How are the classes diverse and lend to differing game play? Do the three classes play radically different and how so?

Ugh, I don't think that having procedurally-generated content is a good solution for repetitive gameplay, unfortunately. User-generated content, maybe? When Diablo 3 first hit PC I was through it pretty quickly, never made it through Inferno, though. I was just stuck. Even when Paragon levels were introduced, the thought of just grinding away for hours on end made me cringe. I'm glad they made all the changes they did, but it soured the PC experience for me. Will probably be getting it on Console, though. Play some co-op with my kiddies :) 

 

Repetitive content is repetitive content. Every game has it. I don't see it as a negative, though. It's just part of the game. Shoot! We've got people beating entire games without even looking at the screen!!! So I don't even think that we care about repetitive content, let along it be a major factor in a review. I'd love to hear more about why some reviewers feel like something like Destiny is more repetitive than something like, God of War, for instance. Or even Diablo 3 for that matter.

 

As far as maps go, yeah, they'll probably sell them to you, but I'm sure there'll be some content updates also. That's pretty irrelevant, though, considering pretty much every major FPS series ships with that number of maps, and then sells you additional maps in $15 chunks or 3 or 4 maps each. So the fact that I'm probably going to be buying gated access to PvE updates also sounds like a pretty fair deal to me. Basically, show me that you are committed to regular, worthwhile content updates and if you'd like to charge me $15 quarterly, that sounds like a pretty good deal to me. 

Originally posted by hunt55511
Originally posted by JeroKane

The story isn't as bad as you made it out to be. It's just not "In your face" like the big dedicated story campains of other games.

Those were offline single player campains. That's what the whole game consisted off, with PVP maps thrown in for multiplayer.

If you bought it for campain only, then Halo, BF, COD were finished within 8-15 hours and shelved. Mass Effect a little longer.

So yeah, if you going to compare the story campain to Halo or Mass Effect, then it's not super great no. But you can play everything in Destiny with friends. Everything.  It's fully online multiplayer.

It also has Dungeons (strikes), RAID (coming tomorrow) and PVP with dedicated factions and gear.

Bungie put all effort in that and the core game is good, addictive and fun. And they are already expanding and adding stuff for free this month. The first "paid" DLC isn't coming until december. So we going to see at least two more free content additions in October and November.

So for me, I am getting more than my money's worth out of this game, if I have to compare it to Halo, CoD or BF.  Mass Effect stands completely on it's own. I love the trilogy and for me Bioware are still king in the game industry when it comes to writing, except the Mass Effect 3 ending. That was bit of an anomaly.

 

First off...on the story, it's not that we made it out to be bad. It's not like Mass Effect's ending in that it was actually just straight bad. It's just nonexistent. It's not there -- it has the makings to be there, it has an amazing universe there just waiting to be used...but what self-respecting story consists of about 5 or 6 cutscenes, a couple of characters, and a few phrases from an AI that pretty much tells you what you already knew you were doing? "In your face" story? I'd just like a story to be there at all. I mean, let's face it. The Russia missions consist entirely of fixing your spaceship -- it doesn't progress a story, it doesn't create any character personality, and the only personality it really furthers at all is Dinklagebot.

Second, the rest of your post might be a compelling argument, if not for the fact that everything you mentioned is also at a barebones minimum.

PvP? Two types, neither of which is exactly genre-breaking. Strikes? Might as well be storyline campaign missions for all the difference they bring. I'll hold off on criticizing their raid format until I actually see it, but if it's anything like Strikes then it's not going to be that spectacular.

Note that I'm not basing my opinions on what the game will be in a few months' time. It's unacceptable that a game should take months after release to be the game it should have been at launch, and that's the main problem I have with Destiny -- it is incomplete.

I agree and disagree on story. Story is definitely Destiny's biggest problem, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's non-existent. It's there, I just find that it's fragmented far too much to make it something that's really compelling. Honestly, if you took their main story, condensed it into a 5 hour game, and released it, the story and pacing of the game would be much different and would probably appeal to the general FPS audience more. 

 

On your second point, I'm not exactly sure what sort of game modes you were expecting. Did you want a "Hugs Mode"? Also, if we are talking about innovation in multiplayer, then we should re-examine every single FPS that's come out in the last 5 years. It's basically a 5-hour campaign followed by a grind through 5 maps until the next DLC. Then, you pay $15 for 5 new maps...... for multiplayer! All the while, they reset your rankings on a regular basis to keep you clamouring for the top. 

 

Sorry, I'll take raids, strikes, etc. any day over your typical FPS. I feel like paying $15 to extend the story is actually much more value, to me, than paying for a couple multiplayer maps. That being said, I'm really hoping that they begin to do a better job at telling their story. I feel like they're kinda caught between PvP and PvE and where their focus should be. 

 

Finally, as far as it being incomplete, this isn't really anything new, is it? This is that PvE (or MMO if you would rather) focus. In WoW, you can't buy the expansion and immediately beat it. Actually the content is slowly dripped to the population over a 8, 10, 12-month period. So, again, it's actually pretty interesting to see the diversity of views with this game. 

Originally posted by Nadia

from article:

Minecraft creator Markus Persson, known as Notch, will not be joining Microsoft as part of the acquisition. "He’s decided that he doesn’t want the responsibility of owning a company of such global significance," says Mojang’s Owen Hill.

Well, if we know one thing, it's that Notch is a very humble person.......

 

Yes.... yes, that was sarcasm......... Unless Mojang did something other than create a single game...... and not even, really, create any content for it. Or create any graphics. But, yeah! The global significance is on par with that of nuclear weapons, for sure. 

Originally posted by hunt55511
Originally posted by DeniZg

I agree. 

But, what if we call it a shooter and compare it to COD and Battlefield? Is Destiny better or worse, story wise?

I think it's a closer comparison to Halo than COD or BF, due to the theme and mechanics.

I'll openly admit I've never played Battlefield, and what little I played of the COD:Ghosts storyline still lends me to think it's better than Destiny's -- from an objective standpoint, anyways. There's actual story development during the missions, which is major -- almost the entirety of Destiny's story is told during the cutscenes and through a few snippets from Dinklagebot here and there.

Compare it to Halo's story/campaign mode and it's just outright pathetic (Note I'm only mentioning Halo:CE, I haven't played an Xbox ever).

If I have to pinpoint my exact grievance with Destiny it's that it feels like a majorly unfinished product -- PvP only has two modes, the maps are sparse, the story is barely existent, the loot is bland, the classes aren't very different (Most are still massively reliant on their gun choice as opposed to their skill choices), and it feels like you spend more time in exploration mode running around on your Sparrow than you do actually exploring and doing things.

I agree with you on story. I think they could have done more with story development and, just, story-telling. Honestly, I don't think it's all that much different from Halo as far as how compelling the lore is. I think it's the execution. Same goes for COD and Battlefield. 

 

Basically, I think that Bungie put too much effort into making this a "longer" game, so you basically end up stretching 10 hours of content into 20 hours+. It basically consists of running back and forth to The Tower to perform a gear check and see if you can get anything new. So, the problem with this is I feel like they drop you into intense situations only to have you leave and, then, have to return, run through the mobs you just killed, only to progress to the next area. If they could have executed it as a single-cohesive mission, I think it would have felt much less fragmented. 

 

Do I feel like it deserves the fate of some of the reviews it's getting? Not really. At it's most basic level, Destiny is one of the most beautiful games you'll find and the mechanics are second to none. So, really, apart from missed opportunities to capitalize on story elements, it really is a great game. I hope they take this seriously when they start making new content. After all, video games are entertainment and they're meant to tell a story. If you can't do that well, then you're ultimately going to fail. 

I agree with those saying that it's not an MMO in the true sense of the acronym. I think that where the line blurs nowadays is that the majority of MMOs out there don't really act as MMOs themselves. I mean if destiny put 100 people in the hub city, then you could classify it as an MMO? Yeah? I mean with shards and instancing galore, many people playing through MMOs solo, and content just not being tuned for multiple players, I've got to say, apart from a hub city filled with hundreds of people, Destiny does do a LOT of "MMO" things better than what current-gen MMOs do. 

 

So, I agree, not really an MMO, but some of today's MMOs should take some pointers too. 

Originally posted by Infantryonline

Reverse order. Titan is team fortress 2 meets wow. Yeah they cockblock, sandbox+f2p meant alot for ArcheAge, same with Next, Everquest at least had almost a million subscribers at 2000. I still play Everquest 2 because i like the systems they have within the game. Best value f2p with only AA limited with free model. Same with Everquest actually, the free model just disables AA gain. EQNext has to absolutely innovate. It would be a disaster if they had action combat and went tab targeting. WoW spent 200 million for all the content and servers from launch till 2009. They knew they were going to make money. Dave Georgeson the director of developement for Everquest franchise says this is the last game he will have to make which means they already calculated success.

This might be the most sane thing you said all day. 

 

If EQN is quality, and if they choose a hybrid model (like EQ2) then I think it could be huge. Actually, if they bundle this as part of their All Access pass, along with H1Z1 and, possibly, Landmark, I will be a subscriber. If this isn't part of All Access, then I might not subscribe. It'll be more a wait and see. 

 

Yeah, you're probably right, This will be Dave Georgeson's last game. It'll either be a huge success, or he'll be fired and shot out of the SOE offices in a cannon. Really, though, once their new titles come along, it makes their All Access so much more attractive. Plus, I can just let my kids bomb around on whatever games I'm not interested in playing. 

I play SWTOR with some of my kids. 

 

Also, I have one son who plays WoW and is almost 90, eeeek!! The other 3 seem content not playing it.

Wallet: "Thanks Kids!!" 

Kids: "You're welcome wallet!"

Wallet: "Let me buy you some candy!"

Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Infantryonline

 

Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

WTF did you just say?

It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

 

Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

Yeah seeing how i responded to the first set of trolls ill make response now. Part 2.

You act like WoW has some magical formula. You simply haven't played better games or games that challenged you. You knew the pradicament and went along for the ride because guess what? Its a wow clone. which never innovated past EQ but made the formula of EQ and better. WoW didn't clone any game other  than EQ. You responses are comical seeing how you act like you can't be touched when that you have no right to be touched. Well, guess what? Where the fuck do you think you are right now? You are on the internet. Its hilarious you think you can just stop all the clamor and be civil when you refuse to acknowlege what ive said before. So I force an argument for the sake of information being spread. This is the next step games should take. . Its not even should because its already being made. The movement is in an unstoppable motion lest Smedley gets killed. So heads up. This will COME your way in 2 years time than the whole atmosphere things will change. Hear that ? A new new MMO was released. They are usually Big Things for your game of choice. Say for instance, wow. So don't act like it won't affect things. companies will be changing their gears every time one of these releases. Its inevitable That Next releases and simply stated this will be a competitor to your mmo. Regardless of what you project user base. This is brand new to the genre. So 1 word answers like no are not welcomed. Sorry i dont give what is said here but to act like youre authority is ridiculous

I've actually played a considerable number of games.  Quite possibly more than you. I don't think that WoW has a magical formula. I never said it did. In fact, they've got a LOT of room for improvement. Especially when it comes to content updates. That's evidenced by the fact that so many WoW subscribers play in 3 or 4 month spurts. I can't think of many who don't take time off to play other games. Simply because there's no more content. They need compelling reasons to log back in. Also, you're right, they don't "innovate" as some other games do. However, it doesn't really matter. They have the luxury of waiting to see what works and what doesn't. Also, in the end, as Dennis Leary once said "...and there aint a goddamn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Because we've got the bombs! That's why, yeah!" And by bombs, I mean subscribers. 

 

If you honestly feel like when EQN releases, 50% of WoW subscribers are going to simply up and leave like a mass exodus, you're delusional. Regardless of what WoW's subscriber numbers are at that point, 50% of the WoW population isn't leaving to go somewhere else. Honestly, you haven't the foggiest idea of how many subscribers they actually have. The last count was 7 million, but "subscriber" indicates the number of people who have paid for time in the last 30 days. That doesn't mean that's all of the unique users they have. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who have/will play WoW in 2014 will be somewhere in the arena of 10 million. 

 

Even if WoW is dead and gone in 2 years, EQN will NOT have 50% of the subscribers. Do you want actual evidence? Look at Wildstar? Do you think that they honestly thought they'd be rolling servers a month after release? Probably not. 

 

Also, as long as we're talking about reality, you're talking like EQN is the ONLY MMO that's being released in the next 2 years. There will be many other MMOs released (things like The Division comes to mind). So regardless how many subscribers leave WoW, the market itself is fragmenting on a monthly and annual basis. People are fighting for niches and slivers of market share to the point that they simply can't afford to run the game. 

 

Oh, and as long as we're on the subject of contradiction, you even contradict your own arguments because you ask whether EQ Franchise IS the biggest competitor to WoW, which is fun because it's actually two contradictions in one. First, the current state of the EQ franchise isn't even registering in the top 10 competitors for WoW and, actually, WoW manages to make more money from it's cash shop than most games in the genre make from all revenue streams (but feel free to prove me wrong), so I wouldn't even call EQ a competitor at this point. Secondly, you're asserting that EQN will basically dethrone WoW and take all of their subscribers, but your title says it all, asking if the EQ franchise can manage to simply compete with WoW. 

 

I'm not saying EQN won't be good. I think it will be good (I actually plan on playing it). I think it will probably be the biggest F2P earner on PS4 and I think that it will probably be a top 5 title in the genre. However, on the PC they do need to address performance issues if they want to maximize their success. 

 

Honestly, I think you're trivializing WoW, which is possibly the worst thing you can possibly do. You look back at some of the biggest military losses in history, and it boils down to people underestimating their enemy. Look at Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. 2 years is a drop in the pan for WoW, sorry. Even when WoW is gone, the market isn't moving to another, single, game, it's going to be fragmented. WoW is the exception, not the rule and, you're right, nobody CAN touch WoW. The only one that's going to kill WoW is WoW, and they'll do a fine job of that all on their own anyway. 

WoWs subscriptions are dropping like flies. Its common sense a ten year old game is limited to what it can do because it is limited to the code it was originally prescribed. Thats why games CAN'T innovate beyond their former shell.You think EQ2 a game thats been out 10 years took a beating like it did with WoW chose to that fate when they wouldn't have to spend money on making Next and just upgrade EQ2 to rival becuase basically they are the same formulas. It can't so the WoW part of the battle is dead. WoW can't stand for the fight in its behalf. I mean, garrisons? You know how many genres EQ Next is borrowing from? I can successfully predict and win this argument using logic. I can already tell that it has a great chance of hitting 50% of your subscribers in time because. Well, WoW had 700,000 in its first fulll year after spending 60 million to EQ2s 12 million. I mean the thing that drives me crazy is if only it can run on a shitty computer. Being f2p. This isn't some puny mmo and not one relying on cutscene and other themepark tricks. This is a REAL sanbox with REAL content and quests in a REAL successfully implemented living and breathing world. By God they gave there npcs "emotions" 10000 hours of unscripted AI. But what you are missing in your calculation other than gauging your existing buddies and guessing "what would they do" in your mmo is what you can do in our world. You can change anything and thats an unseen mechanic that has not been forcasted on how much replay and immersion value but im guessing its enough to set it apart from current mmos FOR A LONG TIME. So while your pumping out your expansions you are one feature away (from Nexts part that is) from making questing, quest hubs, leveling, grinding, stats on items, linear storyline, tab target combat system, Obsolete and eventually going f2p and dying a very slow death...

I mean, whats the choices for a new player? Pay 80+$ to play 12 year old game with 8 year old graphics for 2 months thats linear and meaningless grinds or play a new game with great graphics that you can play right away at any level and affect the story at level 3 and explore open world sandbox. There is no gimmick. What will attract players to this game is not the same from what would attrack a newer player. They just want to get out of the grind and endless quests that have no value and play something that wont cost them nothing that they can play for a year or 2 or what is projected to do absolutely EVERYTHING. And there is no gamebreaking feature that will stop you from playing the game unless you want to do something else. There are no guidlinnes of themepark you must follow in order to keep your head above water. So nothing unfun, nothing immersion breaking. The trinity doesn't even exist yet it won't stop people from playing what they proposed. If EQ Next launched tomorrow. I can see you already downloading it. This game will live and die by the first wave of player reviews. If they deem it a must get. It can be like Diablo 3 with 30 million hits. Thats the beauty of f2p. 

In an effort to go along with you and try for that award for longest post, I'll bite. 

 

Now I know that you're obviously wearing a tinfoil hat and sitting in an institution. Here's why:

1) You say WoW is dropping subscriptions like flies, but the general trend shows that even if they continued on this trend, they'd be at 5 million subscribers in 2 years. That's still 10 times the number of subscribers any other game currently has. 

2) You keep saying words like "innovate", but if you take a look at the "innovative" MMORPGs, the majority are dead and gone. We've got things like LOTRO, Runescape, EQ, EQ2, SWTOR, all still kicking around. That's not to say that innovation isn't welcome, it is. However, innovation introduces considerable risk, also. Risk that many companies aren't willing to take, considering you're chasing a 30% share in the PC market which is already diluted, so we're talking about 5%? At most? Plus they're probably the most expensive game to make. 

3) I think you might, maybe be trying to say EQ2 had 12 million subscribers? Or are you saying it cost 12 million dollars to make? If you're saying they had 12 million subscribers then I know you're just bat sh!t crazy. Other than that, I don't know what your point is. What? That WoW had more subscribers in it's first year than EQ2 did at it's peak? I'm not sure how you're winning with that.

4) You're assuming that a sandbox game is what people want. There's no real proven sandbox MMO out there. The one that there was, SWG, is dead and gone. Sorry EVE peeps, your game is proven to be tested and true, but it's not really Fantasy so it doesn't count. So if EQN thinks that they're going to sail on boat loads of cash by targeting a niche market, they're already dead. They need to have mass appeal and that means creating themepark content for the people like WoW who want a themepark. There definitely isn't a Themepark movement to have WoW implement sandbox elements. Honestly, it's just too much work, and I've already levelled like 7 characters to 90, so I'd rather them not make me choose which 1 I would like to play the most, because since it's sandbox I'll only ever be able to manage a single character, time wise. 

5) Another point on Sandboxes, is that there are other sandbox games which will be releasing before EQN. So they have a head start and, based on my experience, they are time sinks. So whatever market is there is further fragmented.

6) Oh yeah, and there's one other factor that I have been forgetting about all this time. Wait, what was it again..? Oh yeah! Titan! So what is Titan? I don't know, you don't know. Does it even exist any more? I don't know, but if I remember correctly, at last check they had said that it would be pushed back until 2016, and then months after that it, apparently, didn't exist any more. Huh. Weird. Or maybe this will be the next-gen title that WoWheads are looking for, fully complete with destructable environments, open world, sandboxy features, etc. etc. Yeah, EQN, except WoWQN? Completely speculation, but if you think that Blizzard doesn't have a roadmap to deal with EQN, you're fooling youself. 

Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Infantryonline

 

Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

WTF did you just say?

It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

 

Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

Yeah seeing how i responded to the first set of trolls ill make response now. Part 2.

You act like WoW has some magical formula. You simply haven't played better games or games that challenged you. You knew the pradicament and went along for the ride because guess what? Its a wow clone. which never innovated past EQ but made the formula of EQ and better. WoW didn't clone any game other  than EQ. You responses are comical seeing how you act like you can't be touched when that you have no right to be touched. Well, guess what? Where the fuck do you think you are right now? You are on the internet. Its hilarious you think you can just stop all the clamor and be civil when you refuse to acknowlege what ive said before. So I force an argument for the sake of information being spread. This is the next step games should take. . Its not even should because its already being made. The movement is in an unstoppable motion lest Smedley gets killed. So heads up. This will COME your way in 2 years time than the whole atmosphere things will change. Hear that ? A new new MMO was released. They are usually Big Things for your game of choice. Say for instance, wow. So don't act like it won't affect things. companies will be changing their gears every time one of these releases. Its inevitable That Next releases and simply stated this will be a competitor to your mmo. Regardless of what you project user base. This is brand new to the genre. So 1 word answers like no are not welcomed. Sorry i dont give what is said here but to act like youre authority is ridiculous

I've actually played a considerable number of games.  Quite possibly more than you. I don't think that WoW has a magical formula. I never said it did. In fact, they've got a LOT of room for improvement. Especially when it comes to content updates. That's evidenced by the fact that so many WoW subscribers play in 3 or 4 month spurts. I can't think of many who don't take time off to play other games. Simply because there's no more content. They need compelling reasons to log back in. Also, you're right, they don't "innovate" as some other games do. However, it doesn't really matter. They have the luxury of waiting to see what works and what doesn't. Also, in the end, as Dennis Leary once said "...and there aint a goddamn thing anybody can do about it, you know why? Because we've got the bombs! That's why, yeah!" And by bombs, I mean subscribers. 

 

If you honestly feel like when EQN releases, 50% of WoW subscribers are going to simply up and leave like a mass exodus, you're delusional. Regardless of what WoW's subscriber numbers are at that point, 50% of the WoW population isn't leaving to go somewhere else. Honestly, you haven't the foggiest idea of how many subscribers they actually have. The last count was 7 million, but "subscriber" indicates the number of people who have paid for time in the last 30 days. That doesn't mean that's all of the unique users they have. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people who have/will play WoW in 2014 will be somewhere in the arena of 10 million. 

 

Even if WoW is dead and gone in 2 years, EQN will NOT have 50% of the subscribers. Do you want actual evidence? Look at Wildstar? Do you think that they honestly thought they'd be rolling servers a month after release? Probably not. 

 

Also, as long as we're talking about reality, you're talking like EQN is the ONLY MMO that's being released in the next 2 years. There will be many other MMOs released (things like The Division comes to mind). So regardless how many subscribers leave WoW, the market itself is fragmenting on a monthly and annual basis. People are fighting for niches and slivers of market share to the point that they simply can't afford to run the game. 

 

Oh, and as long as we're on the subject of contradiction, you even contradict your own arguments because you ask whether EQ Franchise IS the biggest competitor to WoW, which is fun because it's actually two contradictions in one. First, the current state of the EQ franchise isn't even registering in the top 10 competitors for WoW and, actually, WoW manages to make more money from it's cash shop than most games in the genre make from all revenue streams (but feel free to prove me wrong), so I wouldn't even call EQ a competitor at this point. Secondly, you're asserting that EQN will basically dethrone WoW and take all of their subscribers, but your title says it all, asking if the EQ franchise can manage to simply compete with WoW. 

 

I'm not saying EQN won't be good. I think it will be good (I actually plan on playing it). I think it will probably be the biggest F2P earner on PS4 and I think that it will probably be a top 5 title in the genre. However, on the PC they do need to address performance issues if they want to maximize their success. 

 

Honestly, I think you're trivializing WoW, which is possibly the worst thing you can possibly do. You look back at some of the biggest military losses in history, and it boils down to people underestimating their enemy. Look at Mike Tyson getting knocked out by Buster Douglas. 2 years is a drop in the pan for WoW, sorry. Even when WoW is gone, the market isn't moving to another, single, game, it's going to be fragmented. WoW is the exception, not the rule and, you're right, nobody CAN touch WoW. The only one that's going to kill WoW is WoW, and they'll do a fine job of that all on their own anyway. 

Originally posted by Infantryonline
Originally posted by Maelwydd
Originally posted by Infantryonline

 

Yeah lets ignore the wow rebutals that couldn't come up with a decent informative counter-argument over facts and informed statements other than refusing to acknowlege the facts and projecting authority all over this thread. Now you inject some much needed intellectualism and fail to see that you don't progress logic that you fail to see you have no place. And im supposed to ignore the fact that you are doing what everyone WoW person is doing because you profress knowledge that really isn't knowledge but your own opinion?

I am on your side with backing LM and EQN but I have to ask....

WTF did you just say?

It clearly says i was replying to dudeface. Sometimes you got read the original text in the box

No, I think that he's literally asking wtf you just said. You're quite literally making about as much sense as a drunk uncle on Thanksgiving. After dinner. 

 

Also, feel free to ignore actual valid, logical arguments that don't support your own agenda and continue on saying that everyone here are just wow fanboys. It really does help contribute to the ever-growing irony of your thread. 

Originally posted by Infantryonline
Anyone who doesn't think EQNext can challenge WoW  is just kidding themselves. We have Emergent AI and formidable dev team. You have a legion of idiots who just say "No!" who won't eat the peas with the carrots. Good luck being the "weirdo" in two years. I hope your headphones can block off the ridicule when your in panda cartoon land or orc cartoon land. I hope Blizzard makes warcraft 4 and stops fuckin with the kids already. Its going to be embarrassing when these philosophies go head to head. We're gonna make old timers out of little boys. Somebody's got to cater to their interests though. Blizzard is going to be the only game company that stoops low enough because noone else will. You might as well give your future money to them now. So if and when you retire late. Someone is always there to take your money. We know that. Maybe you'll enter the Real World but welcome to capitalism..........lol

 

First of all, if we're talking about "being real", what reason does anyone have to think that any MMO will compete with WoW? There has been one after another that was touted to "Topple WoW" and all have failed. 

 

See, those who are actually reasonable understand that WoW has EXTREME staying power and that they actually have a bunch of cards up their sleeve that could simply decimate competition. One of those is F2P. That is actually a big positive for EQN and it's probably one reason I'll play EQN, IN ADDITION TO WoW. 

 

Secondly, WoW still runs on older hardware. As it stands right now, in it's unoptimized form, Landmark runs like crap on even a 2 year-old system. Wildstar had similar issues, some of which actually carried over to release. I don't expect these same sorts of problems with EQN, but they'll have to draw the line somewhere between how they want their game presented and how they want it to perform and, honestly, right now it seems more about presentation, which could cut off a huge segment of the market.

 

Finally, whether it's intentional or not, a WoW Expansion can crush you. If they were really that concerned about EQN they could offer a free, full expansion with a free character to max level and drop the expansion on the same day that EQN releases and it would seriously hurt EQN. It wouldn't kill it, but it would force EQN to be resilient and ride out the expansion (which they can probably do).

 

Will EQN be a viable competitor to WoW? Yeah, for sure. It'll probably be my #2. However, it will need to figure out how to monetize their users outside of subscriptions in order to maximize their revenues while WoW is still popular (see SWTOR and Rift). Then, EQ has always been a major competitor for WoW, so it's not really like we're breaking new ground here. 

 

As far as cartoons go......... you are 100% totally right....... I really love how EQN's trying for that ultra-realism........ yes, that was sarcasm. 

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